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Old
04-09-2014, 10:44 PM
  #51
Emperoreddy
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Is JJ able to play again? I don't remember if he was scratched Monday.

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04-09-2014, 10:48 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
How much better would this team have really been if we'd kept Parise at this point (and not Kovy)? We probably don't have Jagr, among others if we were locked into that contract. We probably would have scraped into the playoffs last year with Parise but not done much. Kovalchuk wasn't the reason this organization's been ebbing away the last few years gradually, as much as you're dying to find excuses to justify that he is.
I think it is more his contract and what we gave up to get him (for nothing at this point). It isn't the only reason, but in hindsight it set the organization back.

Lou could never of known that of course and hindsight is 20/20.

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04-09-2014, 10:55 PM
  #53
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Welp that is the last time I read comments on a TG blog post (Although, I saw Muttley running around over there).

In the first 5 comments you have people using goaltender W/L record to validate Marty this season. Apparently, things a goaltender can control aren't as important as a team stat.

Besides for Facebook, that is the absolute last place you go to read comments by Devils fans. It is a complete wasteland.

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04-09-2014, 10:55 PM
  #54
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I think it is more his contract and what we gave up to get him (for nothing at this point). It isn't the only reason, but in hindsight it set the organization back.

Lou could never of known that of course and hindsight is 20/20.
It's not like what we gave up really killed us either. Yeah it's a lot of bodies but most of them never panned out to anything, it'd be like giving up four Tedenby's. The worst part of what we gave up was the contract penalty (twenty spots in the first round this year and a third-rounder, and we didn't pay the twenty spots in the first round till THIS year's draft so it hasn't affected us 'yet').

In the actual trade we gave up Oduya, Bergfors/Cormier and a 1st for a 2nd which turned into Merrill. At the time it looked like a lot more than it turned out to be since Bergfors washed out and Cormier never panned out in the first place. And who knows what happens if we kept Oduya, maybe then we don't re-sign Andy when he was still a bit of a ? consistency-wise.


Last edited by NJDevs26: 04-09-2014 at 11:01 PM.
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04-09-2014, 11:12 PM
  #55
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Kovalchuk deal along with Vanderbeek and his finances is where this ship started to sink........

The Devils got hot at the right time abd everything was kicking in 2012, but then it exploded...and not in a good way.

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04-09-2014, 11:14 PM
  #56
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It's a lot of things...it's part the Kovy deal, part ownership, part the gradual decaying of the team and bad drafting that was already happening. Attributing our decline to any one thing is just looking for a scapegoat, it's all these things in part.

Plus we'll never really know if Parise staying was actually tied to Kovy/finances/whatever - we can debate whether it was or wasn't till the cows come home. There's no way of knowing for sure. Only Parise himself can answer that, and his answer publicly can always be different than the one privately.

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04-09-2014, 11:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
It's a lot of things...it's part the Kovy deal, part ownership, part the gradual decaying of the team and bad drafting that was already happening. Attributing our decline to any one thing is just looking for a scapegoat, it's all these things in part. Plus we'll never really know if Parise staying was tied to Kovy - we can debate whether it was or wasn't till the cows come home. There's no way of knowing for sure.
Was it all bad drafting though? Or just bad forward drafting? (and even that is questionable when looking at who has succeeded). I mean so far it looks like we have hit the jackpot with drafting defensemen. Just seems there is a lot of ******** on our drafting yet no credit for the treasure trove at the blue line of kids.

The problem is more we had some busts at forward at the same time that our star forwards left (Zach and Kovy). It was a perfect storm that set us back. Keep Zach or Kovy (or both) and we survive a couple of draft busts in the same way if Tedy or JJ were better we thrive without Zach/ and or Kovy. I think Lou spent a lot of time focusing and rebuilding a blue line that was aging, and lost lots of talent thinking he was more secure at forward. Then he lost Zach, and then he lost Kovy.

I think the money that went to Kovy is linked to Zach not coming back. The Wild were able to offer more AND offer the same to Sutter and that was the difference. Zach will have said a lot of crap, but it was all about him and Sutter getting paid IMO.

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04-09-2014, 11:27 PM
  #58
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We do have a lot of younger players on defense, that's true...but Larsson was a #4, you'd better hit on that. Merrill was a high 2nd rounder that everyone knew had 1st round talent but he slipped due to his 'question marks'.

Part of the reason we're stacked on defense and not at forward is just the assets we applied to our D - Larsson high first, Merrill high 2nd, Gelinas was a 2nd, Santini was a 2nd (and our first pick last year), Severson was a 2nd. To their credit they might actually hit on all or close, but still that's a lot of high picks that you're using in one area. When we used high picks on forwards we weren't nearly as successful with them. That's set us back.

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04-09-2014, 11:35 PM
  #59
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What happens with Clowe? We don't know the extent of his injury and is done for this year. He was out for long time after another hit to the head earlier in the year.

He just can't stay healthy, how many times before he has to hang it up?

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04-09-2014, 11:44 PM
  #60
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What happens with Clowe? We don't know the extent of his injury and is done for this year. He was out for long time after another hit to the head earlier in the year.

He just can't stay healthy, how many times before he has to hang it up?
He should just pull a Pronger and quietly disappear. Not because I don't like Clowe, I actually really do like him, but for his own health. I'd hate to look back on his tenure in NJ and think 'If he'd just retired then, he wouldn't have all these health issues now'. Heck, if all he has is some lingering health issues, that might be the best case scenario possible.

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04-09-2014, 11:52 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
We do have a lot of younger players on defense, that's true...but Larsson was a #4, you'd better hit on that. Merrill was a high 2nd rounder that everyone knew had 1st round talent but he slipped due to his 'question marks'.

Part of the reason we're stacked on defense and not at forward is just the assets we applied to our D - Larsson high first, Merrill high 2nd, Gelinas was a 2nd, Santini was a 2nd (and our first pick last year), Severson was a 2nd.
Boucher and Matteau should become decent NHLers. Henrique is an obvious success, and we have a few other late rounders that could round out too.

Tedy was a bust, it happens.

JJ the jury is still out, but I don't know if you can blame it on scouting. A lot of JJ's troubles have been terrible luck. Those two bad injuries set him way back, and he obviously hasn't thrived under the current coaching regime.

Part of that is bad luck and what it is coupled with. One of our best forward draftees was Zach and he left. When of our best asset moves was Kovy, and he also left. That magnified everything.

I don't mean to say Conte and Lou deserve raised and medals for brilliant drafting, but I don't think they deserve to be fired or **** on as much as they do.

Also the only thing I blame Lou on with Zach was the dumb not negotiating during the season. Maybe he still leaves, but I think the odds are lower if you press during the year before the seeds of wanting to leave and play with Sutter really take root.

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04-09-2014, 11:53 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by njdss4 View Post
He should just pull a Pronger and quietly disappear. Not because I don't like Clowe, I actually really do like him, but for his own health. I'd hate to look back on his tenure in NJ and think 'If he'd just retired then, he wouldn't have all these health issues now'. Heck, if all he has is some lingering health issues, that might be the best case scenario possible.
Yeah I pretty much feel the same way, he was great when he was healthy.

I hope he's going to be ok but for his sake I hope he knows when it's time. Man those concussions are such a ****** thing to go through, I feel bad for anyone that has to deal with that.

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04-10-2014, 12:03 AM
  #63
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Yeah I pretty much feel the same way, he was great when he was healthy.

I hope he's going to be ok but for his sake I hope he knows when it's time. Man those concussions are such a ****** thing to go through, I feel bad for anyone that has to deal with that.
Well he has the offseason to recover. I don't blame and would like to see him try and give it another go. He can be very valuable to us, and of course he still wants to play.

Anything more though he has to consider a Pronger situation for his own sake.

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04-10-2014, 12:11 AM
  #64
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Is JJ able to play again? I don't remember if he was scratched Monday.
I'm pretty sure Clowe, Henrique, and Josefson are all ruled out for the season according to Pete.

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04-10-2014, 12:12 AM
  #65
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I'm pretty sure Clowe, Henrique, and Josefson are all ruled out for the season according to Pete.
Ugh that sucks as this is the perfect time for JJ to get a few games to run.

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04-10-2014, 12:16 AM
  #66
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Ugh that sucks as this is the perfect time for JJ to get a few games to run.
I can't exactly remember where I read it from though. I was taking it out of context. Pete said something along the lines of "Nobody else is close to returning" when asked about the other injured players. (Elias being odd one out)

Tom Gulitti @TGfireandice
DeBoer said none of thet team's other injured players are close to being ready to play.
10 hours ago

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Old
04-10-2014, 01:33 AM
  #67
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Our biggest problem is that we can't score.

Our PK is top ranked. Our PP is even pretty good by recent standards (6th? 7th?).

Our D-core is outstanding and will only get better. Get Larsson more games, though.

We have a great goalie in The Schneids, and Kinky waiting in the pipeline. And an owner with deep pockets.

We just need forwards that can score consistently. Losing Kovy and Parise hurt there, for sure. Our drafting there has been awful as well.

I'm optimistic for next year. Even five less Marty games would have gotten us in to the playoffs.

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04-10-2014, 01:59 AM
  #68
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Picking forwards late in the first round result in succes for a small minority of teams. I think the drafting thing is overblown, after all since 2008 I think we've gotten an NHL quality player from every draft.

2008-Henrique
2009-Josefson, Gelinas
2010-Merrill
2011-Larsson,Boucher

2012 and 2013 is young but Lou got a really good goaltender from our own first round pick. Ya it's not the greatest but it's not really as dire as I think some make it out to be.


I think development with the constant healthy scratchings, benching, etc. haven't helped in that department at all. It would make sense if our veterans were world-beaters and winning us games but other than a few exceptions I don't see why a team with a one of the lower winning percentages in the league is so hesitant to put out their young guys when the veterans aren't doing much better.

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04-10-2014, 02:05 AM
  #69
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Our biggest problem is that we can't score.

Our PK is top ranked. Our PP is even pretty good by recent standards (6th? 7th?).

Our D-core is outstanding and will only get better. Get Larsson more games, though.

We have a great goalie in The Schneids, and Kinky waiting in the pipeline. And an owner with deep pockets.

We just need forwards that can score consistently. Losing Kovy and Parise hurt there, for sure. Our drafting there has been awful as well.

I'm optimistic for next year. Even five less Marty games would have gotten us in to the playoffs.
How can you be optimistic for next season if Lou and Pete stay? Won't it be much of the same? We have seen 4 years of the same.

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04-10-2014, 02:18 AM
  #70
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I agree with Marty's comments re: mentality of management. That's why I keep saying Lou must retire. Marty's remarks tell me he has no intention of being with the Devils next season.

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04-10-2014, 02:34 AM
  #71
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Well, it is easy for Marty to say what he's saying at the end of probably his last season with the Devils. Not that what he's saying doesn't have some truth to it, but the timing is rather convenient.

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04-10-2014, 03:38 AM
  #72
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How can you be optimistic for next season if Lou and Pete stay? Won't it be much of the same? We have seen 4 years of the same.
Next season will be less Marty and more Cory. Which means more wins. Which should mean playoffs.

Plus our d-core is sick so this offseason might see some weight-shedding.

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04-10-2014, 06:59 AM
  #73
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How much better would this team have really been if we'd kept Parise at this point (and not Kovy)? .
Remember when John Lennon sang Imagine....

Imagine we never traded for Kovalchuk and we go into 2011 with a signed Parise, Paul Martin. Jonny Oduya and Andy Greene...

Well first you would've had a first round pick in 2010..you would never have singed Volchenkov or Tallinder, free agency that year would've been used to address the forward/center position soley, Salvador would've never become captain, the 2001-11 team would've never started the season with a minimum number of forwards or with half a roster of scrubs, MacLean wouldve had a real team to start the season with a real defense..Langenbrunner probably would've retired/left gracefully from New Jersey .

Imagine.... it's easy to do if you try

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04-10-2014, 07:09 AM
  #74
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And if you wonder about that 2010 pick, #24 overall that Atlanta traded to Chicago...you can watch him tonight on the top line for BC in the frozen 4...6'3 -205lb power forward and 2nd leading scorer behind Johnny Gaudreau Kevin Hayes...he should be ready as soon as next year...watch him tonight on ESPN-U and imagine some more

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04-10-2014, 07:15 AM
  #75
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Remember when John Lennon sang Imagine....

Imagine we never traded for Kovalchuk and we go into 2011 with a signed Parise, Paul Martin. Jonny Oduya and Andy Greene...

Well first you would've had a first round pick in 2010..you would never have singed Volchenkov or Tallinder, free agency that year would've been used to address the forward/center position soley, Salvador would've never become captain, the 2001-11 team would've never started the season with a minimum number of forwards or with half a roster of scrubs, MacLean wouldve had a real team to start the season with a real defense..Langenbrunner probably would've retired/left gracefully from New Jersey .

Imagine.... it's easy to do if you try
That's the first problem with your premise...what the heck makes you think Paul Martin walking was in any way tied to the Kovy trade? He wanted out after our medical staff screwed up his chances of going to the Olympics and we weren't all that interested in retaining him either, judging by our lack of trying to sign him and then spending $8 million per year on long-term deals for a two-pronged replacement. Maybe we don't sign Tallinder if we still had Oduya but we were definitely trading off Volch for Martin.

And how would our roster have been appreciably different? We were a few million over the cap with Kovy's contract, but guess what - we would have been RIGHT AT the cap celing without it! No room to 'add depth'.

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