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Shayne Gostisbehere (signed ELC, terms in OP; debuted with Phantoms Apr. 19)

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04-14-2014, 03:49 PM
  #226
CSKA1974
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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
yeah everyone calm down now that there is a tiny possibility that one of our blue chip prospects may never play for us
That's true, but there is nothing we as fans can do about it. So what is the point of getting upset?

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference.

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04-14-2014, 03:50 PM
  #227
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I still don't understand the constant need to compare Gustafsson to Ghost. One is highly touted, the other isn't. How they are treating Gus has no bearing on what they will do with Shayne.

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04-14-2014, 03:50 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by MP92 View Post
I still don't understand the constant need to compare Gustafsson to Ghost. One is highly touted, the other isn't. How they are treating Gus has no bearing on what they will do with Shayne.
How about Pitkanen? That went really well too.

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04-14-2014, 03:50 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think it's a pretty worthwhile concern for his camp to have. This is an organization that, in 47 years, has produced:

1) Watson
2) Therien

That's just about it for guys they've grown at home and had a really appreciable career...there might be one or two other guys. Combined with the mysterious handling of Gus and the organizations very clear preference for veteran Dmen, it's something they should consider if they're smart. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is; this org even struggles to develop their own depth dmen properly. They should be very concerned about him getting benched for long periods for making a mistake, or getting mishandled in general.

The Flyers are great with developing their own forwards, but they've spent pretty much their whole existence failing to develop their own Dmen. It's something that, if his advisers are observant, they should be asking questions about.
The amount of defenders the modern Flyers have had with half the skill Gostisbehere has is...well, it's pretty much a null set.

Flyers defenders fail, for the most part, because they are not that good. The org does a ****** job of picking blue-chip defenders. IMO, the developmental side is more on the junior and college programs than on the Flyers. And in this case, they picked a legit blue chipper, and he's already been developed pretty damn well through Union.


Unless you're suggesting that your Kevin Marshalls and Marc-Andre Bourdons would have become quality players in other systems...

And how many players have been "ruined" by not playing despite proving their worth? Gustafsson? I mean, who else has "proven his worth" and been sat leading to stunted development? If your argument starts and ends with Gustafsson, then it's pretty weak. I'm a Gus fan, but even he is quite debatable.

The only quality young defender since the 05 lockout who the Flyers had that wasn't developed properly was Sbisa. I'll grant you him. But he's not an example of the kind of treatment you're actually referring to, so I'm not seeing any potential parallels being drawn.

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04-14-2014, 03:52 PM
  #230
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Stay in College

I am older and looking back but if I knew then what I know now I would have stayed in college as long as possible. He won't ever have this experience again. If he stays healthy he'll get his money but he won't ever get his senior year of college back. I just hope that when he goes pro he signs with the Flyers.

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04-14-2014, 03:52 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
How about Pitkanen? That went really well too.
That dude was a headcase. It's not like he didn't play well here.

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04-14-2014, 03:54 PM
  #232
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Sorry, but one great defenseman and one fairly good defenseman in 47 years is horrible. Like, how can they not accidentally do better than that? The Flyers, famous for goaltending woes, have produced more goalies than that.

Until the Flyers indicate that they have some sort of ability to develop defensemen, I'm not going to just assume guys like Ghost, Morin and Hagg will make it here. The Flyers aren't currently doing anything encouraging with their current group of Dmen either; Schenn is a project that is failing under their watch, and there's the Gus situation.

The org gives no real reason to have faith in them concerning this matter.

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04-14-2014, 03:55 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by 54fightin View Post
I am older and looking back but if I knew then what I know now I would have stayed in college as long as possible. He won't ever have this experience again. If he stays healthy he'll get his money but he won't ever get his senior year of college back. I just hope that when he goes pro he signs with the Flyers.
youre right maybe he wants a little more time to bang hot 18 year olds

thats gotta be it

open and shut case johnson, see you soon ghost

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04-14-2014, 03:55 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The only joke here is the Flyers' track record at developing Dmen.
Who is Erik Gustafsson? This love fest has gone too far. He is a marginal defenseman. Nothing more. Gostisbehere is 5 times the player he is.

You're over thinking this.

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04-14-2014, 03:57 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think it's a pretty worthwhile concern for his camp to have. This is an organization that, in 47 years, has produced:

1) Watson
2) Therien

That's just about it for guys they've grown at home and had a really appreciable career...there might be one or two other guys. Combined with the mysterious handling of Gus and the organizations very clear preference for veteran Dmen, it's something they should consider if they're smart. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is; this org even struggles to develop their own depth dmen properly. They should be very concerned about him getting benched for long periods for making a mistake, or getting mishandled in general.

The Flyers are great with developing their own forwards, but they've spent pretty much their whole existence failing to develop their own Dmen. It's something that, if his advisers are observant, they should be asking questions about.
That's a concern, obviously. But maybe more for us as fans than someone who might be expected to be part of the answer to that problem. There have been signs from Holmgren (and even Snider) that they recognize the need to do better. And it's also true that never before have the Flyers drafted defensemen in the first two rounds of the draft. So the times may very well be a-changing...

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04-14-2014, 03:57 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
okay but not every player has a direct quote that can actualize that possibility
Am I missing something here? Did he say he was planning on doing this? This is the quote I saw in the article:

Quote:
Gostisbehere was asked if he might have more financial leverage in leaving now, rather than waiting until after his senior year.

“I guess you could look at it like that,” he said. “But when you graduate, you can pick a different team sometimes, so both ways.”
Why would that make anyone nervous? He was asked a question about financial leverage right now vs. after graduating. He said it works both ways because you may be able to go to a different team after graduating. What about that makes you nervous? I could see if he said "I'm weighing my options because you can pick a different team..." or something like that. But he was asked a direct question and he answered a direct question.

I guess you guys could be right though. I mean, look at Gus. He's getting screwed. And the Flyers haven't had a good home-grown defenseman in a while. That probably means defensemen won't sign here. Glad they were able to trick Morin and Hagg into signing though. This is just like when they traded Richards/Carter/JvR and players stopped wanting to sign here. Man, what a ****** organization we have here. I can't believe Ghost said all these things.

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04-14-2014, 03:59 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP92 View Post
I still don't understand the constant need to compare Gustafsson to Ghost. One is highly touted, the other isn't. How they are treating Gus has no bearing on what they will do with Shayne.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Who is Erik Gustafsson? This love fest has gone too far. He is a marginal defenseman. Nothing more. Gostisbehere is 5 times the player he is.

You're over thinking this.
I think you guys are missing the point a bit.

It isn't that Gus and Ghost are directly comparable--its whether the Gostisbehere camp will be at all concerned that the Flyers have refused to give Gustafsson the opportunity to succeed, going as far as to regularly bench him in favor of veterans who weren't performing particularly well. Does Gostisbehere project as a better player? Of course. But he's also likely (certain?) to have some growing pains--particularly in his own end. Given that the only financial incentive that Gostisbehere can look at is NHL playing time, it isn't an idle concern.

All that said--I don't see any reason to panic here. He wasn't going to immediately step into the lineup, so there's really no reason to worry that he hasn't signed yet.

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04-14-2014, 03:59 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Sorry, but one great defenseman and one fairly good defenseman in 47 years is horrible. Like, how can they not accidentally do better than that? The Flyers, famous for goaltending woes, have produced more goalies than that.

Until the Flyers indicate that they have some sort of ability to develop defensemen, I'm not going to just assume guys like Ghost, Morin and Hagg will make it here. The Flyers aren't currently doing anything encouraging with their current group of Dmen either; Schenn is a project that is failing under their watch, and there's the Gus situation.

The org gives no real reason to have faith in them concerning this matter.
He'd fail under anyone's watch. He's not that good, at all. They can't just give untalented defense-man talent. Only thing you can argue is they suck at evaluating defense-man.

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04-14-2014, 03:59 PM
  #239
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This thread:

Let the kid celebrate his unlikely championship run.

If he's not signed by the 2015 draft, start worrying. Otherwise, there's no story here. Hysteria and common Negadelphia comments...

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04-14-2014, 04:01 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Who is Erik Gustafsson? This love fest has gone too far. He is a marginal defenseman. Nothing more. Gostisbehere is 5 times the player he is.

You're over thinking this.
I'm not over thinking, I'm just stating a brutal truth about the organization. 47 years. 47 years of failing to develop almost all of the good talent they have, and 47 years of failing to even draft much talent to begin with because they apparently don't know what makes a good D prospect.

As it stands with Ghost, his playstyle will need a lot of adjustment to work at the NHL level. The hotshot stuff that works in NCAA isn't gonna work now. The Flyers have given zero reason to believe they should blindly be trusted to develop him into an NHL player and help him make that transition.

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04-14-2014, 04:02 PM
  #241
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Now everyone is asking his sister questions!

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04-14-2014, 04:02 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I think you guys are missing the point a bit.

It isn't that Gus and Ghost are directly comparable--its whether the Gostisbehere camp will be at all concerned that the Flyers have refused to give Gustafsson the opportunity to succeed, going as far as to regularly bench him in favor of veterans who weren't performing particularly well. Does Gostisbehere project as a better player? Of course. But he's also likely (certain?) to have some growing pains--particularly in his own end. Given that the only financial incentive that Gostisbehere can look at is NHL playing time, it isn't an idle concern.

All that said--I don't see any reason to panic here. He wasn't going to immediately step into the lineup, so there's really no reason to worry that he hasn't signed yet.
Thank you, this is exactly what I'm trying to say, summed up more briefly than I can manage with this much caffeine in my system.

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04-14-2014, 04:04 PM
  #243
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Now everyone is asking his sister questions!
Terrible.

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04-14-2014, 04:05 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
This thread:

Let the kid celebrate his unlikely championship run.

If he's not signed by the 2015 draft, start worrying. Otherwise, there's no story here. Hysteria and common Negadelphia comments...
Exactly. It's ****ing toxic nonsense that isn't necessary. Just sit back and wait. *******...

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04-14-2014, 04:06 PM
  #245
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Now everyone is asking his sister questions!
Oh great. Now he definitely will not want to play here...

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04-14-2014, 04:07 PM
  #246
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Now everyone is asking his sister questions!
omg what the hell is wrong with people

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04-14-2014, 04:08 PM
  #247
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I think they are just saying encouraging words. I doubt anyone will hassle her. At least I hope. People just need to be patient.

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04-14-2014, 04:10 PM
  #248
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I think they are just saying encouraging words. I doubt anyone will hassle her. At least I hope. People just need to be patient.
I hope so. It's one thing to worry and speculate here on a message board. But bothering his family with it is too much.

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04-14-2014, 04:11 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Who is Erik Gustafsson? This love fest has gone too far. He is a marginal defenseman. Nothing more. Gostisbehere is 5 times the player he is.

You're over thinking this.
Gustafsson is a product of the horrible defense & prospect system we have had these last few years. He's not hot garbage so people tend to overrate him.

The fact is he's a 25 year old undrafted college free agent who's never had any type of hype that comes close to the likes of Gostisbehere, Morin, & even Hagg. Outside of Flyers fans nobody could even tell you who the hell the guy even is.

When you tell a person on here who likes Gus that they overrate him they'll tell you that they don't & only view him as a solid bottom pairing option but then they go & mention Gus in the same breath as those guys in threads involving Gostisbehere, Morin, & Hagg like they have anything in common.

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04-14-2014, 04:15 PM
  #250
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Gustafsson is a product of the horrible defense & prospect system we have had these last few years. He's not hot garbage so people tend to overrate him.

The fact is he's a 25 year old undrafted college free agent who's never had any type of hype that comes close to the likes of Gostisbehere, Morin, & even Hagg. Outside of Flyers fans nobody could even tell you who the hell the guy even is.

When you tell a person on here who likes Gus that they overrate him they'll tell you that they don't & only view him as a solid bottom pairing option but then they go & mention Gus in the same breath as those guys in threads involving Gostisbehere, Morin, & Hagg like they have anything in common.
How often must I explain this?

I'm not looking at Gus's skill and comparing him to these guys. I'm looking at how his development has gone. I see how he earned a spot on the roster by the eyeball test and practically every stat, and how he was benched nonstop for players he has outperformed. Combined with the org's long history of failing to develop their own Dmen, it's far from encouraging.

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