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Flyers extend Andrew MacDonald [six years $30 million, per media reports]

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Old
08-29-2014, 03:41 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
MacDonald is a #4. And he gets 20+ minutes per night and plays alot of PK. Thats worth $5M per year.
Doesnt matter how much you play. It matters how well you play against harder competition.

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08-29-2014, 05:26 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
MacDonald is a #4. And he gets 20+ minutes per night and plays alot of PK. Thats worth $5M per year.
MacDonald is a decent #4, but more of a #5. He is overpaid by about $1.5m IMO

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08-29-2014, 06:01 PM
  #403
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I'm not going to judge MacDonald until he gets a full season, or most of one, under his belt as a flyer, Streit did well after leaving the islanders, maybe MacDonald can do better now that he's off the islanders and will have a full camp under berube

Edit: can you imagine if Berube didn't have such an archaic view of the game and wasn't stubborn with line ups? He could be a damn good coach

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08-29-2014, 06:12 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Doesnt matter how much you play. It matters how well you play against harder competition.
It also matters how many are ahead of you on the depth chart. Not many if the Flyers were giving MacDonald 22 mins every night.

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08-29-2014, 06:16 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
MacDonald is a decent #4, but more of a #5. He is overpaid by about $1.5m IMO
On the ideal team with 4 clearly categorized defenseman. Macdonalds more of a do everything ok type. Which is why the Flyers play him so much. He's not going to QB the PP, but he can move the puck and PK.

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08-29-2014, 07:09 PM
  #406
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Wow Amac gets alot of hate because he didn't prove to be good to play as an elite #1 Dman on the Isles.

before this year he was playing very good on the top pairing with Hamonic for a couple of years.

I'm disappointed people think that the guy who did it for 3 consecutive years sucks and is nothing but a bottom pairing Dman
but the guy who only had a good season while being sheltered and putting bad possession numbers for someone
mainly known as an offensive Dman will be able to play with Coburn or on the 2nd pairing.

i hope Schenn gets his **** like he did the 1st season here so we don't have to play AMac +24min a night.

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08-29-2014, 09:05 PM
  #407
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He's going to range somewhere from being an above average second pairing D to okay bottom pairing D or anything in between. Problem is that he got both excessive length and excessive cap hit on his contract (one okay, but both?) and he can't be anything better then that most likely. Also probably won't be able to QB a PP which we desperately need from our D since Streit is really our only established D we can be confident with on the PP. As it stands.

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09-05-2014, 04:58 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
Can't really judge him until he's played a substantial amount of games as a Flyer. Maybe Berube can help him fix the flaws in his game, he was never getting anything fixed by playing in NY for one of the worst coaches in the league.
And yet his possession numbers were putrid relative to his NYI teammates. The second he left, everyone's numbers improved.

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09-05-2014, 05:00 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Flyerss View Post
Wow Amac gets alot of hate because he didn't prove to be good to play as an elite #1 Dman on the Isles.

before this year he was playing very good on the top pairing with Hamonic for a couple of years.

I'm disappointed people think that the guy who did it for 3 consecutive years sucks and is nothing but a bottom pairing Dman
but the guy who only had a good season while being sheltered and putting bad possession numbers for someone
mainly known as an offensive Dman will be able to play with Coburn or on the 2nd pairing.

i hope Schenn gets his **** like he did the 1st season here so we don't have to play AMac +24min a night.
He played well because Hamonic is really, really good

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09-05-2014, 06:09 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
He played well because Hamonic is really, really good
how does that work? does Hamonic have the ability to control his body and Amac's body simultaneously or does he have brain to brain telepathic communication ability.

they still played nearly 500min together this year and Amac didn't look good.

I'm not saying being paired with Hamonic didn't improve AMac game but you're saying Hamonic is the only reason why AMac played well before this year,
on the other hand Isles fans are saying he was a good Dman but regressed a lot this year.

I'm going to give him another year and see if he can rebound

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09-05-2014, 06:35 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
He played well because Hamonic is really, really good
This is dumb.

Hamonic is a good player, but not a player like Pronger where he can carry his linemate.

Those players are few and far between, and Hamonic certainly isn't one of them.

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09-08-2014, 07:03 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
This is dumb.

Hamonic is a good player, but not a player like Pronger where he can carry his linemate.

Those players are few and far between, and Hamonic certainly isn't one of them.
Prongers are few and far between. Defensemen who carry their partner? Not necessarily.

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09-15-2014, 05:52 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Prongers are few and far between. Defensemen who carry their partner? Not necessarily.
Fair enough.

Travis Hamonic still isn't one of them.

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09-21-2014, 05:56 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
Fair enough.

Travis Hamonic still isn't one of them.

This from last summer

http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2013...-the-defensive

This from near the trade deadline:



We already know that MacDonald has been an anchor for virtually everyone he has played with, while Hamonic has excelled without him. If you don't want to say that Hamonic carried him, you'll have to be more specific why the Islanders best defenseman became a better possession player without a player who later earned a $30M contract.

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09-21-2014, 06:12 PM
  #415
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That covers his whole career?

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09-22-2014, 08:22 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
That covers his whole career?
Talking about his time with Hamonic

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09-22-2014, 12:18 PM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
It also matters how many are ahead of you on the depth chart. Not many if the Flyers were giving MacDonald 22 mins every night.
Bulk ice time does not equal value. Example: Carle.


Especially if they're playing in a mediocre or bad unit. Lesser players will automatically get more ice time than they would on a better team in those situations.

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Old
09-22-2014, 12:27 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
This from last summer

http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2013...-the-defensive

This from near the trade deadline:



We already know that MacDonald has been an anchor for virtually everyone he has played with, while Hamonic has excelled without him. If you don't want to say that Hamonic carried him, you'll have to be more specific why the Islanders best defenseman became a better possession player without a player who later earned a $30M contract.
That doesn't prove that Hamonic carried MacDonald. It only proves that MacDonald dragged Hamonic down.

Hamonic carrying MacDonald would be proven by MacD having a higher-than-usual corsi while on the ice with Hamonic. And that's not the case.

An example of a player being carried is Pronger and Carle. Not Hamonic and MacDonald. We still net out to the same conclusion (MacDonald was bad in NY), but the details are pretty big when it comes to this stuff, imo.

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09-22-2014, 02:14 PM
  #419
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Are MacD stats the same in his short time with Philly as they were with the NYI?(Corsi, etc)

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09-22-2014, 02:35 PM
  #420
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From my memory of ExtraSkater (RIP) we was at about 48% in Philly in the regular season.

With LSchenn he was about 47%, with Streit he was about 58%, and with Coburn he was about 37%. Him and Coburn got torched for shot attempts by Pittsburgh in MacDonald's last game of the season. I think he played 28 minutes that game.

http://flyers.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2013021213

Yup, 28:49 because Kimmo was rested. Damn, I forgot how great Mason was in that game till that POS knocked him out.


Last edited by Curufinwe: 09-22-2014 at 02:41 PM.
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09-22-2014, 02:56 PM
  #421
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Are MacD stats the same in his short time with Philly as they were with the NYI?(Corsi, etc)
Players on Philly he played more than 50 mins with at 5v5 during reg season:

Luke Schenn: W: 47.2%, W/O: 47.8%, MEffect: -0.6
Mark Streit: W: 58.5%, W/O: 49.7%, MEffect: +8.8
Brayden Coburn: W: 38.5%, W/O: 51.8%, MEffect: -13.3

Wayne Simmonds: W: 46.5%, W/O: 48.8%, MEffect: -2.3
Brayden Schenn: W: 47%, W/O: 47.9%, MEffect: -0.9
Vincent Lecavalier: W: 47.4%, W/O: 44.8%, MEffect: +2.6
Claude Giroux: W: 50.6%, W/O: 53.4%, MEffect: -2.8
Sean Couturier: W: 46.2%, W/O: 49.3%, MEffect: -3.1
Scott Hartnell: W: 50.6%, W/O: 54.7%, MEffect: -4.1
Michael Raffl: W: 51.1%, W/O: 52.8%, MEffect: -1.7
Matt Read: W: 48.5%, W/O: 49.9%, MEffect: -1.4
Jakub Voracek: W: 54.2%, W/O: 55.4%, MEffect: -1.2
Adam Hall: W: 46.3%, W/O: 43.7%, MEffect: +2.6
Zac Rinaldo: W: 53.8%, W/O: 45.1%, MEffect: +8.7

Basically with the Flyers while he was still obviously an impediment to 'Postive Corsi production' overall his figures were far better than on the Isles, apart from Coburn no-one was heavily impacted negatively, and some players benefited while on ice with him. 48% overall was below the Flyers average in that timeframe... but not by much tbh.

Considering he played arguably the 2nd hardest minutes after Coburn once he got here, 48.7% zone starts, the Hardest QoC of any Dman over the year and the 3rd hardest Rel Qoc he was at worst adequate from a possession standpoint in the regular season.

Though in the playoffs his possession stats were ******* on a mound of burning refuse.


Last edited by Appleyard: 09-22-2014 at 03:05 PM.
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09-22-2014, 04:41 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
That doesn't prove that Hamonic carried MacDonald. It only proves that MacDonald dragged Hamonic down.

Hamonic carrying MacDonald would be proven by MacD having a higher-than-usual corsi while on the ice with Hamonic. And that's not the case.

An example of a player being carried is Pronger and Carle. Not Hamonic and MacDonald. We still net out to the same conclusion (MacDonald was bad in NY), but the details are pretty big when it comes to this stuff, imo.
Thank you, this was my point.

All those stats prove is that MacDonald was a terrible defenseman, in NYI, last year. It has no influence on who carried who.

It also has no bearing on the fact that Streit's & MacDonald's (just an example, I know the sample size is small) played very well here, in Philly, together.

Does this prove MacDonald is a great defenseman? No, obviously. But he played well in his time here, so it's best to first see how he does after learning Berube's system with a full training camp.

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09-22-2014, 04:44 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Players on Philly he played more than 50 mins with at 5v5 during reg season:

Luke Schenn: W: 47.2%, W/O: 47.8%, MEffect: -0.6
Mark Streit: W: 58.5%, W/O: 49.7%, MEffect: +8.8
Brayden Coburn: W: 38.5%, W/O: 51.8%, MEffect: -13.3

Wayne Simmonds: W: 46.5%, W/O: 48.8%, MEffect: -2.3
Brayden Schenn: W: 47%, W/O: 47.9%, MEffect: -0.9
Vincent Lecavalier: W: 47.4%, W/O: 44.8%, MEffect: +2.6
Claude Giroux: W: 50.6%, W/O: 53.4%, MEffect: -2.8
Sean Couturier: W: 46.2%, W/O: 49.3%, MEffect: -3.1
Scott Hartnell: W: 50.6%, W/O: 54.7%, MEffect: -4.1
Michael Raffl: W: 51.1%, W/O: 52.8%, MEffect: -1.7
Matt Read: W: 48.5%, W/O: 49.9%, MEffect: -1.4
Jakub Voracek: W: 54.2%, W/O: 55.4%, MEffect: -1.2
Adam Hall: W: 46.3%, W/O: 43.7%, MEffect: +2.6
Zac Rinaldo: W: 53.8%, W/O: 45.1%, MEffect: +8.7

Basically with the Flyers while he was still obviously an impediment to 'Postive Corsi production' overall his figures were far better than on the Isles, apart from Coburn no-one was heavily impacted negatively, and some players benefited while on ice with him. 48% overall was below the Flyers average in that timeframe... but not by much tbh.

Considering he played arguably the 2nd hardest minutes after Coburn once he got here, 48.7% zone starts, the Hardest QoC of any Dman over the year and the 3rd hardest Rel Qoc he was at worst adequate from a possession standpoint in the regular season.

Though in the playoffs his possession stats were ******* on a mound of burning refuse.
Thanks Appleyard.

In the playoffs, I think overall the Flyers got dominated in possession anyway.

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09-22-2014, 05:17 PM
  #424
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Thanks Appleyard.

In the playoffs, I think overall the Flyers got dominated in possession anyway.
The top line was pretty impressive... but only a few other players were.

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09-22-2014, 06:17 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
That doesn't prove that Hamonic carried MacDonald. It only proves that MacDonald dragged Hamonic down.

Hamonic carrying MacDonald would be proven by MacD having a higher-than-usual corsi while on the ice with Hamonic. And that's not the case.

An example of a player being carried is Pronger and Carle. Not Hamonic and MacDonald. We still net out to the same conclusion (MacDonald was bad in NY), but the details are pretty big when it comes to this stuff, imo.
Duly noted, then.


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