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(Apr. 15, 2014) Flyers extend Andrew MacDonald [six years $30 million, per media]

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04-15-2014, 12:17 PM
  #101
Prongo
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[QUOTE=Insulin;83422133]This is exactly what I was afraid of. It's not anything MacDonald has done because he's been solid, but this is the type of move we love making when it comes to defenseman. We overpay second pairing guys.

McDonagh, Carlson, Voynov, Fowler, Vlasic all recently signed deals that pay less than that. It's ****ing unacceptable.[QUOTE]

Context with all these players is needed. All of them were RFA's at the time and when they are ready for UFA status they will be getting paid more than MacDonald. You can disagree with the contract, but compare him to more reasonable players.

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04-15-2014, 12:17 PM
  #102
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All of them were RFAs...
You beat me to this -- and everyone else it looks like.

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04-15-2014, 12:17 PM
  #103
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I'm fine with the length and money if he doesn't get a NTC/NMC.

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04-15-2014, 12:17 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insulin View Post
This is exactly what I was afraid of. It's not anything MacDonald has done because he's been solid, but this is the type of move we love making when it comes to defenseman. We overpay second pairing guys.

McDonagh, Carlson, Voynov, Fowler, Vlasic all recently signed deals that pay less than that. It's ****ing unacceptable.
McDonagh, Carlson, Voynov, and Fowler were all RFAs.

Vlasic wasn't, but he obviously loves it in San Jose. MacDonald wasn't going to give Philly a discount.

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04-15-2014, 12:17 PM
  #105
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Risky move money and term-wise!

Looks like they plan to have him eat the minutes next to Coburn on the first pairing next year. Timonen won't be back or will have to accept a major pay-cut. One of Grossmann/L. Schenn might be on his way out.

But why couldn't they at least wait to see him play in the playoffs?
Any word on NMC/NTC yet?

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04-15-2014, 12:19 PM
  #106
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I'm happy with this. Not a bad cap hit and not a bad term since he's 27.

It's not a steal like some people were apparently hoping for, it's what he's worth and would have gotten as a F/A, possibly even more if multiple teams were after him. He's been great since he's gotten here and is capable of being used on any of the three pairings without looking out of place.

This is good for him since he's getting the money he deserves and good for us since we have a good Dman for the next few years on a reasonable contract.

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04-15-2014, 12:19 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insulin View Post
This is exactly what I was afraid of. It's not anything MacDonald has done because he's been solid, but this is the type of move we love making when it comes to defenseman. We overpay second pairing guys.

McDonagh, Carlson, Voynov, Fowler, Vlasic all recently signed deals that pay less than that. It's ****ing unacceptable.
those guys were all restricted. They have more leverage. What should be discouraging is that bouwmeester is getting slightly more than 5 mill for 5 years. That would have been a guy I would have loved to have had.

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04-15-2014, 12:20 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insulin View Post
This is exactly what I was afraid of. It's not anything MacDonald has done because he's been solid, but this is the type of move we love making when it comes to defenseman. We overpay second pairing guys.

McDonagh, Carlson, Voynov, Fowler, Vlasic all recently signed deals that pay less than that. It's ****ing unacceptable.
All of those players were RFAs. MacDonald was a pending UFA.

Big difference.

It really comes down to whether or not the Flyers should have signed him at all, because they weren't getting him for less than they signed him for if they waited until July 1st.

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04-15-2014, 12:28 PM
  #109
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I'm glad he is signed, he has been our best dman. He would have easily gotten this contract on the open market and possibly at a higher term.
No chance of that. He's been OK, but he hasn't been that good.

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04-15-2014, 12:28 PM
  #110
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Not gonna quote all of you.

Sure, it's unfair that I'm comparing him to those guys because they were RFA. My point remains though; other teams have their young number one defenseman signed to great deals while we're paying the same amount of money to older middle pairing guys.

I think it's a problem.

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04-15-2014, 12:30 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insulin View Post
Not gonna quote all of you.

Sure, it's unfair that I'm comparing him to those guys because they were RFA. My point remains though; other teams have their young number one defenseman signed to great deals while we're paying the same amount of money to older middle pairing guys.

I think it's a problem.
Careful, you're pointing out an obvious flaw with the organization. People are going to jump down your throat now.

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04-15-2014, 12:31 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insulin View Post
Not gonna quote all of you.

Sure, it's unfair that I'm comparing him to those guys because they were RFA. My point remains though; other teams have their young number one defenseman signed to great deals while we're paying the same amount of money to older middle pairing guys.

I think it's a problem.
Well, I don't think all those guys are necessarily #1s, but I still fail to see the relevance. We don't have a young top-pairing guy to get under contract, so why compare the situations? The Flyers have done well keeping their young forwards under contract at solid cap hits. The trade off is that they have had to rely on UFA for blueliners, and thus have been forced to pay a premium. In 3-5 years, when Ghost, Morin, Hagg, or whoever else ends up panning out are coming up for their contracts, hopefully the organization will reap that same advantage.

Would it make you more comfortable if MacDonald and Streit were making $1m less a piece and Voracek and Simmonds were making $1m more?

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04-15-2014, 12:31 PM
  #113
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No chance of that. He's been OK, but he hasn't been that good.
Honestly beef, that isn't necessarily a compliment. More like a backhanded compliment. But it is true. I just wish he was a bit stronger in front of the net and along the boards. Other than that no problem.

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04-15-2014, 12:35 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insulin View Post
Not gonna quote all of you.

Sure, it's unfair that I'm comparing him to those guys because they were RFA. My point remains though; other teams have their young number one defenseman signed to great deals while we're paying the same amount of money to older middle pairing guys.

I think it's a problem.
What would your solution be?

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Old
04-15-2014, 12:36 PM
  #115
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Reading through this thread makes me about the signing its done so move on if it bugs you that bad i hear the Laffs are looking for fans.

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04-15-2014, 12:37 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Careful, you're pointing out an obvious flaw with the organization. People are going to jump down your throat now.
Doesn't this usually go the other way? People crap all over the organization. This entire board is too negative (myself included).

It's a flaw, but given the situation, not an awful signing. They are trying to repair it through the draft, finally, but until then...

What would others do to protect this defense from getting even worse (and I would put it near the bottom third in the league--I've been looking at the defense, backwards and forward for months now on lunch break)?

Are others offering solutions beyond what they're doing now?

In philosophy, there is criticism, but also the demand for "rebuilding the phenomenon" which basically means: Okay, you've criticized, now what is the solution? Or what is really going on?

This isn't directed at you, per se.

But I see an awful lot of scathing criticism, but the solutions offered up are usually twice stupid. Never go to facebook feeds. Ever.

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04-15-2014, 12:40 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Well, I don't think all those guys are necessarily #1s, but I still fail to see the relevance. We don't have a young top-pairing guy to get under contract, so why compare the situations? The Flyers have done well keeping their young forwards under contract at solid cap hits. The trade off is that they have had to rely on UFA for blueliners, and thus have been forced to pay a premium. In 3-5 years, when Ghost, Morin, Hagg, or whoever else ends up panning out are coming up for their contracts, hopefully the organization will reap that same advantage.

Would it make you more comfortable if MacDonald and Streit were making $1m less a piece and Voracek and Simmonds were making $1m more?
How much would it take to bring Gus back? That's probably better value than MacDonald at 5 million. And I'm not even a huge Gus fan like a lot of people here. I know that MacDonald is better as well.

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04-15-2014, 12:42 PM
  #118
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Shattenkirk have 4.25m for 4 years. MCD 5m for 6 years. Stupid Gm.


Last edited by SnS: 04-15-2014 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Edited word.
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Old
04-15-2014, 12:43 PM
  #119
Jack de la Hoya
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Shattenkirk have 4.25m for 4 years. MCD 5m for 6 years. Stupid Gm.
...wow.


Last edited by SnS: 04-15-2014 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Edited word.
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04-15-2014, 12:43 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by SeanCWombBroom View Post
Doesn't this usually go the other way? People crap all over the organization. This entire board is too negative (myself included).

It's a flaw, but given the situation, not an awful signing. They are trying to repair it through the draft, finally, but until then...

What would others do to protect this defense from getting even worse (and I would put it near the bottom third in the league--I've been looking at the defense, backwards and forward for months now on lunch break)?

Are others offering solutions beyond what they're doing now?

In philosophy, there is criticism, but also the demand for "rebuilding the phenomenon" which basically means: Okay, you've criticized, now what is the solution? Or what is really going on?

This isn't directed at you, per se.

But I see an awful lot of scathing criticism, but the solutions offered up are usually twice stupid. Never go to facebook feeds. Ever.
I mean, the solution is to get a time machine and go about ten years back to slap everyone in sight until they build through the draft and learn some damned patience. But it's a problem a lot of people foresaw ages ago when the organization was furiously busy trading all their picks and prospects, so of course there's going to be some bitterness about it. We're stuck in a situation where we have to make trades and signings like this annually. It's pretty frustrating...with any luck this little era is coming to an end soon though.

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04-15-2014, 12:44 PM
  #121
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Lol....so he basically got Matt Carle money and term. Just as I suspected! Another example of Holmgren's transparency with respect to being the best GM at fixing his own mistakes. MacD is a need and so was Carle at the time although Carle probably could have been secured for less if not left on the open market. Anyway, it is what it is...an overpayment for a need. Guy is a slight improvement over Carle but is also defensively prone in the physicality dept. Should be interesting how he holds up against the Rangers.

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04-15-2014, 12:45 PM
  #122
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I think Islander fans need to reassess that team up there. We have now poached two of their minute eating defenseman from them and they have played significantly better here than there. Maybe it's not the players but the coaching staff??

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04-15-2014, 12:46 PM
  #123
Jack de la Hoya
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Lol....so he basically got Matt Carle money and term. Just as I suspected! Another example of Holmgren's transparency with respect to being the best GM at fixing his own mistakes. MacD is a need and so was Carle at the time although Carle probably could have been secured for less if not left on the open market. Anyway, it is what it is...an overpayment for a need. Guy is a slight improvement over Carle but is also defensively prone in the physicality dept. Should be interesting how he holds up against the Rangers.
As far as I know, the reason he hit the market was because he couldn't be secured for less.

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04-15-2014, 12:47 PM
  #124
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4/18 was all I wanted to pay.
That is is what i wanted also

Then again I thought Streit and Vinny signed for too much and too long and Giroux for too much. But I am cheap.

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04-15-2014, 12:48 PM
  #125
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That is is what i wanted also

Then again I thought Streit and Vinny signed for too much and too long and Giroux for too much. But I am cheap.
I think term-length is a fair concern with Streit and Vinny, but not so much here. They are basically getting the prime of his career.

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