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David Desharnais Part IV (MOD WARNING POST #1)

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Old
05-26-2014, 03:00 PM
  #401
Milhouse40
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
At least Eller shows up with effort and produces consistently. Any of our other forwards do that?
He s by far our most important offensive player.
Fixed

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05-26-2014, 03:03 PM
  #402
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DD is and always will be an exploitation center. He's also not paid like a top center, so there's really not much of a problem there. The only problems we run into are when the coaching staff insists on overplaying him or when the team wants to move galchenyuk to center.

If the habs want to explore the possibility of moving chucky into that easy-minutes offensive role, then I think it's a pretty easy choice to pick DD as the center to move.
I'm honestly not sure if Galchenyuk has shown he should be playing center, even in soft minutes.

Desharnais is getting very heavy offensive-zone centric minutes in these playoffs, and still is having to fight defensively.

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05-26-2014, 03:03 PM
  #403
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What does it say about our forwards when we re arguing about dd and eller? And why is patches escaping criticism?

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05-26-2014, 03:11 PM
  #404
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All I'll say is this.

DD for the most part puts in more effort than anyone on his line and most of the players on the team. The problem is he HAS to be the hardest working player on the ice in order to be an NHL player. He also HAS to produce. He is not paid to work hard. He is paid to produce and he hasn't so far. This is a major problem when you consider the coach is putting him in positions to produce more than any other player.

Hard work is nothing if it does not produce results especially for a player in a top line role. It is sad that Eller is outproducing him with lesser players and no PP time and is still not given an opportunity. Galchenyuk can actually score goals. He is not given an opportunity either. Hopefully this changes next year.

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05-26-2014, 03:16 PM
  #405
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So Arpon Basu don't know **** when he said DD had an horrible game last night, right?
You have , clearly, a better hockey IQ?

If you wanna talk about work ethic, then yeah, DD was one of the best on this team all
playoff long. That i agree. He always give his 100%.

But he wasn't effective.
He wasn't our first line center.
He wasn't a force we should be proud to have on our first line.

He played like a good 3rd line center.
Produce like one, played like one......but given first line linesmates and ice-time.

But he did give a lot more than Vanek or Pacioretty.......but not close has player like Subban or Eller for example.
the thing is, he is producing like a 3rd line center with 1st line wingers AND 1st unit pp time. that's just an atrocious coaching. i understand that the habs don't have a clear cut 1st line center at the moment, but therrien should go for a hot hand and he just refuses to do that.
give frickin lars eller few games with pacioretty&gallagher and you MIGHT get yourself a 1st line center!
therrien did really good job this season, but burring his most effective forward in the playoffs down to 4th line for two whole games is plain ridiculous.

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05-26-2014, 03:26 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Fixed
Eller and bourque are beasts offensivly.cause they have the most points .right?

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05-26-2014, 03:55 PM
  #407
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For the entire playoffs, DD ESTOI=15:27. Eller's=15:04.

Since the Tampa series, DD has 3 ES points; Eller has 4.

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05-26-2014, 04:01 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
For the entire playoffs, DD ESTOI=15:27. Eller's=15:04.

Since the Tampa series, DD has 3 ES points; Eller has 4.
Yup, the difference is in PP time, for which the general strategy is failing, not necessarily just the presence of DD.

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05-26-2014, 04:18 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
And even without your actual username refering the purple archer I know who you are, just by your DD asslicking.

Working hard is for grinders, if a top 6 player brings only "Hard work" I don't know what he's doing in a top 6.
He's a disgrace and a set back on our future, just like Murray and Bouillon. Play the damn kids instead of freaking plugs.
Well I said he didn't play well, so that proves you're not very good at reading.

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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
2012/13 regular season DD scores 2.07 points per 60 minutes at 5-on-5.
2012/13 playoffs he drops to 0.90.
2013/14 regular season he's back up to 1.78.
2013/14 playoffs he drops to 1.09.

He is what he is; an exploitation player who needs soft matchups and producing linemates in order to put points on the board. Give him tough matchups and a floating Pacioretty and the points dry up. He works his butt off, give him that, but with his size it just isn't enough in the post-season.
90% of players drop in production in post season. Desharnais was good against Tampa, great against Boston, and very poor vs The Rags.

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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Two assists means what ? 2 points.

But what are those 2 assists ? He gives it to Bouillon in the neutral zone who does it all by himself. 100% of people that played hockey in the world can do that. Then ? The second one is a secondary assist where he was only cycling the puck. It's crazy how much he relies on other players, and this isn't even understanded by other fans.

He has 1 shot with 7 minutes of PP 1 SHOT PER 7 MINUTES OF Powerplay. He managed to be a minus two even though he has two points. He's terrible.

It's not about WHO ELSE is terrible. It's about upgrading the team, DD is not what this freaking team needs. He's an extension of Gomez, only he's from Quebec and he's paid a bit less, it's the only reason he's still on this team.
Only two forwards have a better +/- on the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
DD is and always will be an exploitation center. He's also not paid like a top center, so there's really not much of a problem there. The only problems we run into are when the coaching staff insists on overplaying him or when the team wants to move galchenyuk to center.

If the habs want to explore the possibility of moving chucky into that easy-minutes offensive role, then I think it's a pretty easy choice to pick DD as the center to move.
At the point, I'm more willing to move Pleks. I think we are entering our Cup window, but I think Plekanec is on the wrong side of 30 and could bring a quality top-6 winger.

As for exploitation, yes. But I think in the playoffs Desharnais has a high relative corsi and has played well defensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haburger View Post
What does it say about our forwards when we re arguing about dd and eller? And why is patches escaping criticism?
Favorites are always able to avoid a lot of hate.

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05-26-2014, 04:51 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by One Man Rock Band View Post
Only two forwards have a better +/- on the team.
The fact that he starts so often in the offensive zone compared to everyone else means he should have one of the best +/-'s on the team no?

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05-26-2014, 04:57 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by One Man Rock Band View Post
Well I said he didn't play well, so that proves you're not very good at reading.


90% of players drop in production in post season. Desharnais was good against Tampa, great against Boston, and very poor vs The Rags.


Only two forwards have a better +/- on the team.


At the point, I'm more willing to move Pleks. I think we are entering our Cup window, but I think Plekanec is on the wrong side of 30 and could bring a quality top-6 winger.

As for exploitation, yes. But I think in the playoffs Desharnais has a high relative corsi and has played well defensively.


Favorites are always able to avoid a lot of hate.
maxpac got tons of hate early in the season. The guy's a sniper, though, and nobody is getting him the puck in the offensive zone. That line can't even hold the puck there for more than a few seconds.

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05-26-2014, 04:58 PM
  #412
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And the witch hunt is right back in..... You guys really don't want him out.....you'll really miss him after all.

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05-26-2014, 05:03 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And the witch hunt is right back in..... You guys really don't want him out.....you'll really miss him after all.
Emelin is getting more hate than DD, why not call that out as being a 'witch hunt'?

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05-26-2014, 05:18 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
For the entire playoffs, DD ESTOI=15:27. Eller's=15:04.

Since the Tampa series, DD has 3 ES points; Eller has 4.
dd pptoi 50:17, 3 ppp
eller shtoi 14:58, 2 shp


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05-26-2014, 05:27 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Emelin is getting more hate than DD, why not call that out as being a 'witch hunt'?
Not sure, maybe because we are at Thread Part IV of the witch hunt while the other players are at....

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05-26-2014, 05:28 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not sure, maybe because we are at Thread #4 of the witch hunt while the other players are at....
One is a top 4 D and the other is the supposed #1 C. That alone will make for a lot more attention.

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05-26-2014, 05:52 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
One is a top 4 D and the other is the supposed #1 C. That alone will make for a lot more attention.
Bourque was the best winger at the start of the series. Bar none. Was DD playing with him? No, so DD was NOT playing with the best forwards. Vanek has been MIA. Pacioretty has played 2 great games so far in this whole series. And Gallagher skates hard and is somewhat fine. Yes, his use sucked hard last game, too much PP time for the results we got while Eller got none. But Desharnais is a representation to what this team is all about. Period. And frankly, he is part of the TALENT or lack thereof (though in his case, it's the package more than what's inside...) I keep talking about. People were pretty quiet when he's doing well.....and when it's not going our way, suddenly, the hunt is back in as if he's the big responsible of what's going on. We, and I include myself in this, had A WHOLE LOT of questions as to how he'll respond to tough games against the Bruins and he responded well....Everything was quiet. Now....we might be on the verge of losing our series and boom....DD thread resurfaces full steam ahead.

Again, it's really as if, DD dissapear and we're cup contending. You cannot have a great team when we are about to let one of our supposed #1 line winger go...(Vanek), when we are about to say bye to our captain and top 6 forward. When we "should" (not on this board I know) wonder if Plekanec can ever be a real top 6 scoring forward, when Bourque is all up 1 game all down the other, we want Brière gone, we pretty much want Moen out, Prust out and who else. And then we also realize that we have NO transition game on the back end that can't help their forwards and so on......DD could be questioned. No problems. But not my fault if at one point it was crazy as DD was bashed like there was no tomorrow whie being producing at a great pace just for the sake of the future and all.....We got 100 points this year. Yes, Price played a HUGE part, don't worry, I know. But despite having a stupid first 20 games, DD also played a part in there too. Yet.... people would really be satisfied even if we put him on waivers. If that's not a witch hunt....I don't know what is. So the question is.....what do you want to do with him? And if he's so much a liability, why isn't he -20? I mean, he got all those minutes....at one point, you'd think he'd be expose.

Therrien was stupid with Eller all year long. I keep saying that Eller should have played WAY more PK.....he didn't during the regular season and then...he does it during the freakin playoffs. How stupid was that. And then, he doesn't give him enough icetime on ES. So yes, Therrien should get his act together and play Eller more. I'm not convince he's a top 6 C either....but we will have to try him like more than 10 games in a row for sure.

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05-26-2014, 06:02 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Emelin is getting more hate than DD, why not call that out as being a 'witch hunt'?
The Emelin hate is just as ridiculous.

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05-26-2014, 06:17 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Desharnais isn't played or paid to work hard, he's played and paid to put up points. I praise him for his efforts, but he hasn't been a threat offensively for 90% of these playoffs. For someone who gets the bulk of offensive zone starts and PP time, it's inexcusable.

DD can rip out his heart and throw it on the ice, but so long as he is ineffective in the offensive zone, he isn't doing his job. He's being leaned on to carry the offense and before yesterday's game, the only players that had less points than him were two 4th line players and bottom pairing D men.

He isn't getting the job offensively and for that he isn't playing up to standard. The Canadiens need to stop this charade of having him as the first line offensive centre. I don't care if he's in a depth role, but his offensive play doesn't justify his usage.
There's no one better suited for his role right now, so it's not really about it being inexcusable so much as the reality of the roster.

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05-26-2014, 06:22 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
All I'll say is this.

DD for the most part puts in more effort than anyone on his line and most of the players on the team. The problem is he HAS to be the hardest working player on the ice in order to be an NHL player. He also HAS to produce. He is not paid to work hard. He is paid to produce and he hasn't so far. This is a major problem when you consider the coach is putting him in positions to produce more than any other player.

Hard work is nothing if it does not produce results especially for a player in a top line role. It is sad that Eller is outproducing him with lesser players and no PP time and is still not given an opportunity. Galchenyuk can actually score goals. He is not given an opportunity either. Hopefully this changes next year.
Pretty good summary, imo.

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05-26-2014, 06:27 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yup, the difference is in PP time, for which the general strategy is failing, not necessarily just the presence of DD.
Max and DD are so stale and ineffective on the PP together, that there's no reason at all to keep them together now.

I'd completely mix up the PP for game 5. Throw out a Galchenyuk-Briere-Pacioretty-Eller (3 of 4 obviously) combo on the first wave.

Take the odd man out of that group and put him in with Vanek and Plekanec.

The entire PP scheme is so geared toward Subban that I don't know if anything would help it. But, it's pretty safe to say that nothing can hurt it.

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05-26-2014, 06:34 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
For the entire playoffs, DD ESTOI=15:27. Eller's=15:04.

Since the Tampa series, DD has 3 ES points; Eller has 4.
Here we go...just like in the season.
Take out ONE part of the PO so DD don't look so bad.....

Its not just about point....Eller hits, played most of his minute in a grinding role, play huge on the PK and did it all with enigmatic wingers.

There are no debate....if Eller's not there, we ain't in the PO anymore.
Remeber last year? What was the excuses back then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haburger View Post
Eller and bourque are beasts offensivly.cause they have the most points .right?
Nope, Points is one thing.
Puck-possession skill is mainly their force.

There were the best line in more than 10 games so far.....even when they didn't got points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haburger View Post
What does it say about our forwards when we re arguing about dd and eller? And why is patches escaping criticism?
What?
Pacioretty and Vanek have been the most criticize players in the 2 first round

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05-26-2014, 06:52 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by billy piton View Post
the thing is, he is producing like a 3rd line center with 1st line wingers AND 1st unit pp time. that's just an atrocious coaching. i understand that the habs don't have a clear cut 1st line center at the moment, but therrien should go for a hot hand and he just refuses to do that.
give frickin lars eller few games with pacioretty&gallagher and you MIGHT get yourself a 1st line center!
therrien did really good job this season, but burring his most effective forward in the playoffs down to 4th line for two whole games is plain ridiculous.
What i hate the most is mainly that MT repeat what he did in the season.

Bourque-Eller-Gionta was our best line and MT broke it
Gallagher had produce in 5 out of 6 games with Plekanec (and mainly Prust)
Since then, Gallagher produced in 3 out of 9 games.

Those 2 lines was working fine.....

Vanek seems out of it....what MT did?

**** everything up in order to make Pac-DD produce again....and just like in the season,
Pac and DD started to produce a little more and the rest of the team started struggling at scoring goals.

If MT don't give a chance to Eller....AT LEAST don't screw everything that is working for him.
But that's what he did, in order to help Pac and DD, cause they were the one struggling, not the other way around.

Just like the season...Eller's and Plek's line had a terrific start and MT screw everything up in order to make
Pac and DD produce again. They did produce but everynody else struggles for the rest of the season.


Last edited by Milhouse40: 05-26-2014 at 06:57 PM.
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05-26-2014, 07:15 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
One is a top 4 D and the other is the supposed #1 C. That alone will make for a lot more attention.
He's paid 3.5M a year and gets less ES TOI then Plekanec.

Since we are built as an apparently defensive grinding team, it makes sense that Pleks is our number one, even if people disagree.

All three of our centers are getting similar minutes at ES strength.

Bourque, all playoffs, has been our best winger overall. Gallagher too, but he's line hopped.

Overall, I don't think we really have numbered lines. We are more of a committee team than anything.

Our biggest problem is our defense brain farts and our PP. Whoever is in charge of the PP needs to be fired. Its ****ing ugly. And its not just because of Desharnais. Every unit we send out there is ugly. As for defense, we have terrible breakouts and a really slow d-core that always gets caught.

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05-26-2014, 07:17 PM
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
One is a top 4 D and the other is the supposed #1 C. That alone will make for a lot more attention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Bourque was the best winger at the start of the series. Bar none. Was DD playing with him? No, so DD was NOT playing with the best forwards. Vanek has been MIA. Pacioretty has played 2 great games so far in this whole series. And Gallagher skates hard and is somewhat fine. Yes, his use sucked hard last game, too much PP time for the results we got while Eller got none. But Desharnais is a representation to what this team is all about. Period. And frankly, he is part of the TALENT or lack thereof (though in his case, it's the package more than what's inside...) I keep talking about. People were pretty quiet when he's doing well.....and when it's not going our way, suddenly, the hunt is back in as if he's the big responsible of what's going on. We, and I include myself in this, had A WHOLE LOT of questions as to how he'll respond to tough games against the Bruins and he responded well....Everything was quiet. Now....we might be on the verge of losing our series and boom....DD thread resurfaces full steam ahead.

Again, it's really as if, DD dissapear and we're cup contending. You cannot have a great team when we are about to let one of our supposed #1 line winger go...(Vanek), when we are about to say bye to our captain and top 6 forward. When we "should" (not on this board I know) wonder if Plekanec can ever be a real top 6 scoring forward, when Bourque is all up 1 game all down the other, we want Brière gone, we pretty much want Moen out, Prust out and who else. And then we also realize that we have NO transition game on the back end that can't help their forwards and so on......DD could be questioned. No problems. But not my fault if at one point it was crazy as DD was bashed like there was no tomorrow whie being producing at a great pace just for the sake of the future and all.....We got 100 points this year. Yes, Price played a HUGE part, don't worry, I know. But despite having a stupid first 20 games, DD also played a part in there too. Yet.... people would really be satisfied even if we put him on waivers. If that's not a witch hunt....I don't know what is. So the question is.....what do you want to do with him? And if he's so much a liability, why isn't he -20? I mean, he got all those minutes....at one point, you'd think he'd be expose.

Therrien was stupid with Eller all year long. I keep saying that Eller should have played WAY more PK.....he didn't during the regular season and then...he does it during the freakin playoffs. How stupid was that. And then, he doesn't give him enough icetime on ES. So yes, Therrien should get his act together and play Eller more. I'm not convince he's a top 6 C either....but we will have to try him like more than 10 games in a row for sure.
For the most part, Ellers ES time has been fine. Last game was a joke because he kept line juggling 3 of the lines though.

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