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David Desharnais Part IV (MOD WARNING POST #1)

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Old
06-18-2014, 03:57 PM
  #1026
habsfanatics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
You can mock me/us all you want but you have no argument.

You and Monctonscout are seriously in denial believing DD is our best option at first center and Pacioretty is only a product of DD.

No matter what you say, we have better centers, that are more suited to play on the first line than DD.

A stat I like to check at to see how can I build a championship team is the playoffs production.

David Desharnais. Only 2 goals in 27 playoffs game, 10 pts. Pretty bad production knowing he played 22 of those games as our first center.
Tomas Plekanec: 42pts in 69 games. Not that bad, close point game rate to DD's regular season rate.
Lars Eller: 15 pts in 25 games. As a third center with no PP, this is a great production.
Galchenyuk: 3 goals, 3 assists, 6 pts in 10 games. Small sample but still pretty good for a rookie.

So yeah.. all of our centers that doesn't get close to the offensive opportunities DD gets all over-produced him when the game matters the most yet you and Monctonscout still try to convince us he's our best offensive, most talented center and the one and only center that can make Pacioretty works. Yeah right.
I have no argument? All you've done is created strawman after strawman, where did I ever say patches was depended upon DD? Patches is one of the best wingers in the game, he does't need anyone, saying two players compliment one another doesn't mean one needs the other.

Where did I ever say we don't have better centermen? Are you really going to continue to argue points I've never made?

Your whole last paragraph is you alluding to the strawman you built earlier.

You prefer to build your team off smaller sample sizes rather than larger ones? Thank god you're not actually doing this for a living. The team would be in serious trouble.


Last edited by habsfanatics: 06-18-2014 at 04:19 PM.
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Old
06-18-2014, 03:59 PM
  #1027
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
The point is that you clearly you can win a Cup with a 70 point player as your top offensive threat.
Wasn't the point. We're not talking about DD effectiveness in the playoffs versus the Kings players. We were talking about the points in the regular season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
So we're going to trade away Plekanec, just to keep DD as a PP specialist / backup in case Eller / Galchenyuk fizzle?
No. You're trading Plekanec to get a great return. I'M not trading Plekanec to get nothing. If I don't have enough, I don't want him gone. Then we'll deal with what we have and hope we put the best pieces in place to succeed.


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Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
He's entering his 3rd season.

Sure, it's possible Galchenyuk gets to break into the Top 6, and that DD has some of his PP time redistributed, and that Eller gets rewarded as easily as he gets punished, and that Tinordi an Beaulieu are given bigger roles, but what indication do you base these optimistic predictions on?
Because that's how things usually evolved in an organization? That players are let go and younger guys take charge in due time? Whether we agree or not if the due time is now, next year or the year after remains to be determined. But I would hope that our management will still not sign Murray because they think that Tinordi will never be ready. Or that Bouillon is still the solution on the PP2 and not Beaulieu etc. You have to hope that reality kicks in and so is sanity. It didn't this year....it might next year. Things chances and evolves. Besides, if the idea is to trade DD so that it would force Therrien to play the kids instead, I go back to my previous argument....since the coach is totally part of the management decisions on players, if Therrien is so much in love with DD, why would he accept to see him go for a low value just for the sake of seeing the other guys take charge if he also doesn't think that those guys aren't ready to be top 6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
Fair enough, I'm just not sure what indicators you're using to reach this prediction.
What prediction? That they aren't dumb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
So how badly does his size lower his value? He goes from a 50-60 point forward to what? 40-50? 30-40? 20-30?
Just one question before, you're asking my "what indicators I'm using to reach my prediction" to which I say...what indicators should I have to know the answer to that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
Isn't DD's value less than Pleks' in the case of the Habs as well?
Yes. DD's value is less to the Habs than Pleks. But Pleks return value is higher than DD's. Only needs to do the exercice as to which is greater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter Eclipse View Post
So we're gonna trade away a really good two way center for a really good two-way winger?
If you have more needs on the wing than at the center position...why not?


Last edited by Whitesnake: 06-18-2014 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
06-18-2014, 04:05 PM
  #1028
habsfanatics
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
This pretty much sums up the pro-DD side. They believe in some combination of
  • After 123 NHL games Galchenyuk still can't play at least 3rd line center
  • Eller's production is too inconsistent to handle a top-6 role
  • Plekanec is little more than a shutdown center
  • Desharnais can put up 70pts

Yet I've never seen an actual reason to believe any of those points.
1) Is playing 3rd line center better for Gally than playing top 6 winger for his development? I don't think so, having him as the number 1 center would be ridiculous, but many suggest it anyways.

2) Do you think Eller's production has been anything other than inconsistent? I know, I know, zone starts bla bla bla, Eller did nothing to support his own cause either though.

3) Pleks is more than a shutdown center, the over-reliance on him is a bit much, however, this is MT's fault and not DD's

4) Seems like you don't believe he can, I think in a good year he could be in the ballpark for sure. The 61 games this year is more indicative of his play than the first 20, yet some talk as if the 61 games is the unlikely scenario and the 20 games is the normal.

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Old
06-18-2014, 04:08 PM
  #1029
habsfanatics
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Just because the first 20 games what of an exceptional mediocrity that Desharnais has NEVER come close to have in ANY of the leagues he played in. That's just like people who keeps bringing some question marks to a guy who has an exceptionally high shooting percentage that "won't" stick, hence we shouldn't be too impress by it and should wait till it comes back to normal. The first 20 games of this year was THE worst streak of his life.

In 2010-2011, his 1st season, only 22 points in 43 games. First year though, so let's give the guy a little break, yet, worst streak of his season was: 0 points in the last 9 games of the season. But even if you go back 20 games despite that drought, he had 9 points in his last 20 games. And obviously playing WAY less than what he's playing now.

In 2012-2013: Half season, not really that great....28 points in 48 games, yet, worst streak was maybe his last 20 games, but he had 12 points in the process. Yet, he was able to get his points here and there throughout the year.

This year, it's 1 point in the first 19 freakin games. We can safely NOW say that this is what DD is all about? Despite NEVER seeing that kind of performance from him, in any other years, in any other levels? Those first 19 games were totally out of character for him. So I do have a tougher time to take it as point blank and pretend like this is who he is and will always be.
Thank you whitesnake.

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Old
06-18-2014, 04:22 PM
  #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
1) Is playing 3rd line center better for Gally than playing top 6 winger for his development? I don't think so, having him as the number 1 center would be ridiculous, but many suggest it anyways.

2) Do you think Eller's production has been anything other than inconsistent? I know, I know, zone starts bla bla bla, Eller did nothing to support his own cause either though.

3) Pleks is more than a shutdown center, the over-reliance on him is a bit much, however, this is MT's fault and not DD's

4) Seems like you don't believe he can, I think in a good year he could be in the ballpark for sure. The 61 games this year is more indicative of his play than the first 20, yet some talk as if the 61 games is the unlikely scenario and the 20 games is the normal.
1) Yes playing center in a top-9 role is better for his development then playing wing in a top-6 role.

2) First off no player on the 3rd will produce with consistency. Even most 2nd liners will have inconsistent production. So for players in those roles it's less about producing consistently and more about playing well consistently. Eller played well for the most par even when he wasn't producing. And finally how do you expect him to be consistent when from game 26 to 82 of the season Eller had the same linemates for 3 straight games exactly once. He's not put in a situation where consistency is possible.

3) Never said it was DD's fault, just that many people agree with that sentiment. There are a lot of poster claiming Plekanec is used the way he should be.

4) No I don't believe he'll ever hit 70pts. Like I said you have to be an 80-90pt player during your good stretches if you want to a shot at finishing with 70pts.

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Old
06-18-2014, 04:32 PM
  #1031
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Where's part 5(really part 9)?

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Old
06-18-2014, 05:20 PM
  #1032
JLP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
So i guess threads like these are how some of you have 30,000 posts, lol. What more is there to talk about concerning Desharnais? Aren't you guys bored yet?
It's complicated. But I think as long as Desharnais is the Habs #1C there will be threads like this.

The team is entering a time when they can challenge for the Stanley Cup. We have one of the league's top-5 goalies and one of the league's top-5 defencemen. So many of us wonder why our top centre position is reserved for a unidimensional undrafted midget who can only pass the puck to Max Pacioretty. Even in his comfortable, opportunity-drenched, point-leeching production mode, Desharnais barely cracks the league's top-50 centers.

For many it's bewildering that Desharnais is a lock on the top-line centre job, especially as we have three centres who can do better.

So we need these threads, they are a place for those seeking to reassure themselves that others also see the insanity of DD#1C; and they are also a place for the Desharnais apologists, who meet here to reaffirm their blind faith in Coach Therrien's odd personnel choice, even if conventional hockey wisdom and the NHL's other 29 GMs stang against it.

In a sense these threads bring us together.

Go Habs Go !!!

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Old
06-18-2014, 05:20 PM
  #1033
overlords
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Let's just take a break, ok?

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