HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Guillaime Latendresse vs Patrice Bergeron

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-21-2005, 11:12 PM
  #26
turnbuckle*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,724
vCash: 500
Hey; you're excited about the tenderness, now if people would just get as excited about the tender (Price), they'd at least be getting hyped about the better prospect.

Nice to see Guilly off to a good start this summer (10 pts in 4 games); as most of you know he was out with an injury last year at this time. If he can ever improve his first step significantly, the Habs will have a dandy power forward prospect on their hands. He will never be as fast as Bergeron, but he will be bigger, stronger and likely has better hands. Whether that develops into a higher NHL ceiling is questionable; skating is a pretty important component, as is character. Bergeron is not lacking in either of those departments.

I read an article yesterday where Timmins said every player they took in the 2005 draft was in their top 75. In other words, even Paquet and Kostitsyn were in the Habs top 75 draft list. Timmins also said the Habs had Latendresse "much higher."

I wonder if they had him in their top 15? Obviously the team thinks he can improve his skating, and it looks like he's already doing it given the reports I've read.

Mikus is a dark horse candidate IMO. I really liked his play at the under-18s, he's got good size, decent wheels, and sees the ice very well. He was easily the Czech's best player in the games I saw.

Add Mikus and Latendresse to Chippy, Plekanec, Kosty, Higgins, and Hossa; and Price to Halak and Danis, and the Habs are looking good at four of the five positions. Unfortunately, the neglected position is also perhaps the most important one...deeeefence.

turnbuckle* is offline  
Old
08-21-2005, 11:40 PM
  #27
KingJarl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 412
vCash: 500
Latendresse looks good, for sure. But c'mon! Why don't we compare the 40 some other rookies taken before Guillaume to Bergeron? Or the 300 taken before him this year and last year combined? It just doesn't make sense. Until a few years down the road, this thread is pointless.

Right now, Bergeron has proven himself. It's Patrice hands down. Not to mention that that's a hell of a lot for Latendresse to live up to (though I'll be the first in line to congratulate him if he does). I'm all for a Montreal pick outplaying and outscoring a Bruin anyday.

Kingjarl

KingJarl is offline  
Old
08-21-2005, 11:46 PM
  #28
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Robert
I agree. Latendresse will certainly not make as much of an impact at the same age. He's at least a few years away from NHL action. Let's wait and see what Latendresse can do in the NHL before we even start these silly comparisons.
It's not like people are comparing Latendresse with Maurice Richard or even guys like Neely or Bertuzzi.

Bergeron is a good young player, but he's not earned the right to be kept out of comparisons discussions as far as I'm concerned.

With that being said, Bergeron and Latendresse have very little in common except that they both come from Québec and were both drafted in the 2nd round. So I'll suppose the thread starter is only asking if Latendresse can outshine Bergeron in the next couple of years.

Quote:
Bergeron is so far ahead it's not even funny. The guy sees the ice so well, anticipates the plays, plays good defence, hits well, essentially plays an amazingly consistent, complete game...not to mention he's only 20 years old. I can't imagine how good he will be in 5 years. Personally, I just love Bergeron's game. He's going to be an amazing player for the Bruins for years to come.
The part in bold is all true. No disputing that. But that doesn't mean that by the time he's 25 PB will have kept the same learning curve he's had from 16 to 19. I think people are really high on Bergeron like they were on Gagne after his first 3 seasons. Gagne is still a very good player I'd take on my team any day of the week but he's hit a ceiling pretty quick and the same might and probably will happen to Bergeron. Especially considering the fact that he doesn't have out-of-this-world physical tools and skills outside of his hockey sense and maturity.

As for Latendresse, he's big and plays a PF game and history has shown that those type of players take longer to develop. Couple that with him being a year younger and obviously Bergeron is the much better player right now, but that doesn't mean he'll still be by the time both are in their prime.

I've watched Latendresse play in the Q, at the top prospect game and at the U18 and I can say that the kid is going to surprise people. I was really high on him before the draft and I don't understand why a kid like Bourret got picked so high while Latendresse fell the way he did but I think it has a lot to do with his shoulder injury, this has been a blessing for us. A bit like Chipchura's injury during his draft year but to a much greater extent.

Quote:
Latendresse, well, he might not even make an impact in the NHL...We can say he has a higher ceiling, which could be true, but for now there's just no comparing the 2 players. Plus Latendresse will probably never be as complete a player as Bergeron.
I think Latendresse has TONS of potential. He's unbelievably strong for his age and if he can improve on his shot accuracy and top end speed a little he could be a force. Even if he doesn't do that, I think he can be a real asset as a 4th line banger. I'm not worried about seeing him play at the NHL level.

I think it's a bit early to deal in absolutes when talking about players who are both so young. If you ask me which one I'd rather have I'd pick Bergeron obviously because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush but I'm not writing Latendresse off on him ending up as the better player just yet.

E = CH² is offline  
Old
08-21-2005, 11:58 PM
  #29
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,640
vCash: 500
On a related note I think it's funny how people have absolutely no problems comparing Theodore to a top 3 goaltender of all time (possibly the best) in Roy but nearly fall out of their chair when an 18 years old habs prospect is pitted against a 20 years old bruins player with one NHL season under his belt.

E = CH² is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 12:04 AM
  #30
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 28,041
vCash: 500
It's not a crazy thread at all, and not a terrible comparison using the 2nd round selection theme as the basis for argument.

I'm sure everybody who thought this was a stupid comparison also knew that Patrice Bergeron was going to reach the NHL right away, as a 2nd round pick out of the 'Q'.

Riiiight.


In terms of ceiling, I agree with Eric Forest. I like Latendresse's better. That said, Bergeron's going to have a very good and LONG career because he does so many things well. But if we're looking for impact players, I think Latendresse is definitely a home run waiting to happen.

I just hope he doesn't strike out.

Jag68Sid87 is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 12:07 AM
  #31
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,405
vCash: 500
I wonder how many of you saw Guillaume "Tenderfoot" Tendresse in the under 18 tournament last year? He was flopping around like a whale beached on the north shore. This kid has a long, long, long way to go before he even plays in the AHL and some of you are comparing him to Bergeon. Give me a break! I hope I'm wrong but G.T. is another Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Jason Ward. He can't skate. And wasn't Timmons the one who said that Kostsityn was ready to play in the NHL last year at the rookie camp?

onice is online now  
Old
08-22-2005, 12:11 AM
  #32
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
It's not a crazy thread at all, and not a terrible comparison using the 2nd round selection theme as the basis for argument.

I'm sure everybody who thought this was a stupid comparison also knew that Patrice Bergeron was going to reach the NHL right away, as a 2nd round pick out of the 'Q'.

Riiiight.
I agree with you but now that I've re-read the opening post, I don't think it's Latendresse by a longshot and I don't think Bergeron was rushed either so I understand a bit better why he got jumped all over.

Quote:
In terms of ceiling, I agree with Eric Forest. I like Latendresse's better. That said, Bergeron's going to have a very good and LONG career because he does so many things well. But if we're looking for impact players, I think Latendresse is definitely a home run waiting to happen.

I just hope he doesn't strike out.
As do I. It's all going to depend on his character and desire from now on.

E = CH² is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 12:15 AM
  #33
Quiet Robert
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
It's not like people are comparing Latendresse with Maurice Richard or even guys like Neely or Bertuzzi.

Bergeron is a good young player, but he's not earned the right to be kept out of comparisons discussions as far as I'm concerned.

With that being said, Bergeron and Latendresse have very little in common except that they both come from Québec and were both drafted in the 2nd round. So I'll suppose the thread starter is only asking if Latendresse can outshine Bergeron in the next couple of years..
I can't dispute much of what you've said here. Perhaps I was hasty in my response. You seem to have nailed what the thread starter wanted to say. (The part in bold.) This could be an interesting argument.

I'm not saying Bergeron shouldn't be compared with anybody, but as you said, apart from being from Québec and being drafted in the 2nd round, what do they have in common? But the idea of 4-5 years down the road is an interesting one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
The part in bold is all true. No disputing that. But that doesn't mean that by the time he's 25 PB will have kept the same learning curve he's had from 16 to 19. I think people are really high on Bergeron like they were on Gagne after his first 3 seasons. Gagne is still a very good player I'd take on my team any day of the week but he's hit a ceiling pretty quick and the same might and probably will happen to Bergeron. Especially considering the fact that he doesn't have out-of-this-world physical tools and skills outside of his hockey sense and maturity.

As for Latendresse, he's big and plays a PF game and history has shown that those type of players take longer to develop. Couple that with him being a year younger and obviously Bergeron is the much better player right now, but that doesn't mean he'll still be by the time both are in their prime.

I've watched Latendresse play in the Q, at the top prospect game and at the U18 and I can say that the kid is going to surprise people. I was really high on him before the draft and I don't understand why a kid like Bourret got picked so high while Latendresse fell the way he did but I think it has a lot to do with his shoulder injury, this has been a blessing for us. A bit like Chipchura's injury during his draft year but to a much greater extent.
Again, I can't dispute much here. I agree that Bergeron might not continue on his meteoric rise, but personally I think that surely we've yet to see the best of him. I think that hockey sense like his is rare, and as you said, he's an incredibly mature person. I think his decision making skills on the ice will ensure that any physical tools he lacks will be compensated.

He's got the most important parts of the game locked down. Plus he's still very young, so I have no doubt he'll be able to bulk up and adress any other issues which might plague his game in the future. On the ice, he doesn't have many glaring weaknesses, so in that sense, that's why I can't see him anything holding him back from being a true star.

As for the last part, I agree. The injury certainly plays a role, as it did with Chipchura. I'm looking forward to him staying healthy and playing well in the Q this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
I think Latendresse has TONS of potential. He's unbelievably strong for his age and if he can improve on his shot accuracy and top end speed a little he could be a force. Even if he doesn't do that, I think he can be a real asset as a 4th line banger. I'm not worried about seeing him play at the NHL level.

I think it's a bit early to deal in absolutes when talking about players who are both so young. If you ask me which one I'd rather have I'd pick Bergeron obviously because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush but I'm not writing Latendresse off on him ending up as the better player just yet.
Once again, I agree with a lot of your points. Man this is getting boring In terms of absolutes, I was referring to the way I had initially understood the post, in which case I don't think you can compare the two. However, if we are taking about how they will be in 4 years, there is certainly an interesting debate there.

As for his upside, I'm glad your so high on him. I think it was Blind Gardien who brought it up in another thread, but there was a Jason Ward comparison which I found quite apt. Not to say he will be a Jason Ward, but it's not out of the question. If he did turn into a 4th line player, I wouldn't be that disapointed.

But I guess the thing I find frustrating about the Latendresse is the constant label as a steal and a future star. I don't mean to diminish him, but it's far from a given that he will be a top 6, all-star player. Let's take a little pressure of the kid, let him improve at his own pace, and if he is only a 4th line player, then we should be happy we got something out of him.

I think you're right in saying it's not out of the question that he becomes better than Bergeron, but right now, especially being so high on Bergeron, I don't see it as a strong possibility. It is a possibility though.

Edit: I gotta add a boxing question here. Vargas-Castillejo and Juarez-Soto. Did you see them? If so what did you think? The Soto fight was very good but the Vargas one was so-so.

Sept. 10th is the next big day though. Morales and Pacquiao in action Can't wait.

Quiet Robert is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 12:19 AM
  #34
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaholic
I would have to give the nod to Latendresse by a longshot, I dont think the Habs will rush him into the league like the Bs did Bergeron, but inthe long haul, Latendresse will be much more dominant than Bergeron, what do you think?
How is latendresse as compared to Bertuzzi at the same age?

toshiro is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 12:22 AM
  #35
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice
I wonder how many of you saw Guillaume "Tenderfoot" Tendresse in the under 18 tournament last year? He was flopping around like a whale beached on the north shore. This kid has a long, long, long way to go before he even plays in the AHL and some of you are comparing him to Bergeon. Give me a break! I hope I'm wrong but G.T. is another Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Jason Ward. He can't skate. And wasn't Timmons the one who said that Kostsityn was ready to play in the NHL last year at the rookie camp?
That one game you saw makes you an authority on the matter and you're not being harsh at all.

Did you watch him at the top prospect game ? He showed some sweet stuff. Did you watch him in the Q toward the end of the season and in the playoffs ? He was dominant.

I'm not pretending the kid is going to be a NHL all star for sure and yes he still has a lot of work to do, but the potential is definately there.

It's true that if the habs management drafted him for his dazzling foot speed, acceleration and skating they're in for a huge disapointment. That's not Latendresse's forte. Latendresse's strenghts lies in his bonecrushing hits, his ability to withstand punishment, his sweet hands, his good wrist shot and average to good playmaking abilities.

If the kid is a hard worker both on and off the ice he'll be a player. And he'll be the kind of player the habs have been looking for.

I hate to do comparisons but if you ask me I'd compare him to Shane Doan. He might bust and I acknowledge it but I think you're being unfair at the moment. As a 2nd rounder you can't really be upset at the pick.

E = CH² is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 12:36 AM
  #36
Habsfan 32
Registered User
 
Habsfan 32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Way up north...
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,319
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Habsfan 32 Send a message via MSN to Habsfan 32
Right now I think Bergeron is better but Latendresse as a higher ceilling.

Habsfan 32 is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 12:40 AM
  #37
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Doan

Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
That one game you saw makes you an authority on the matter and you're not being harsh at all.

Did you watch him at the top prospect game ? He showed some sweet stuff. Did you watch him in the Q toward the end of the season and in the playoffs ? He was dominant.

I'm not pretending the kid is going to be a NHL all star for sure and yes he still has a lot of work to do, but the potential is definately there.

It's true that if the habs management drafted him for his dazzling foot speed, acceleration and skating they're in for a huge disapointment. That's not Latendresse's forte. Latendresse's strenghts lies in his bonecrushing hits, his ability to withstand punishment, his sweet hands, his good wrist shot and average to

orker both on and off the ice he'll be a player. And he'll be the kind of player the habs have been looking for.

I hate to do comparisons but if you ask me I'd compare him to Shane Doan. He might bust and I acknowledge it but I think you're being unfair at the moment. As a 2nd rounder you can't really be upset at the pick.
More like Terry Ryan lol. The Habs missed Doan by one pick

toshiro is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 12:52 AM
  #38
KStewart113
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 310
vCash: 500
Well Bergeron rating was only a 6 lol. He probably will be a 2nd liner for most of his NHL career. I think Latendresse could be that, or more or less.

KStewart113 is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 01:00 AM
  #39
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 15,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Robert
I can't dispute much of what you've said here. Perhaps I was hasty in my response. You seem to have nailed what the thread starter wanted to say. (The part in bold.) This could be an interesting argument.

I'm not saying Bergeron shouldn't be compared with anybody, but as you said, apart from being from Québec and being drafted in the 2nd round, what do they have in common? But the idea of 4-5 years down the road is an interesting one.
Hopefully that's what he wanted to get across, but I definately see where you were coming from

Quote:
Again, I can't dispute much here. I agree that Bergeron might not continue on his meteoric rise, but personally I think that surely we've yet to see the best of him. I think that hockey sense like his is rare, and as you said, he's an incredibly mature person. I think his decision making skills on the ice will ensure that any physical tools he lacks will be compensated.

He's got the most important parts of the game locked down. Plus he's still very young, so I have no doubt he'll be able to bulk up and adress any other issues which might plague his game in the future. On the ice, he doesn't have many glaring weaknesses, so in that sense, that's why I can't see him anything holding him back from being a true star.
Indeed, hockey sense has got to be THE skill you want one of your prospect to have and in 2nd position character. When a player has both of those, he doesn't need to be Kovalchuk skill-wise to be a player. And we'll both agree Bergeron has that in spades. I'm really high on him myself, but muc the same way you're getting annoyed at the "Latendresse is a STEAL" posts I'm starting to believe Bergeron has become a tiny bit overated on these boards.

I guess that's why I'm sticking up for Latendresse a bit in this thread.


Quote:
As for the last part, I agree. The injury certainly plays a role, as it did with Chipchura. I'm looking forward to him staying healthy and playing well in the Q this year.
I don't think anyone can be disapointed at the way he's started the season off.


Quote:
Once again, I agree with a lot of your points. Man this is getting boring. In terms of absolutes, I was referring to the way I had initially understood the post, in which case I don't think you can compare the two. However, if we are taking about how they will be in 4 years, there is certainly an interesting debate there.
After reading the initial post again, I understand why the thread starter got jumped all over. He was certainly enthusiastic to say the least. And I agree that right now Bergeron is the man 10 times out of 10.



Quote:
As for his upside, I'm glad your so high on him. I think it was Blind Gardien who brought it up in another thread, but there was a Jason Ward comparison which I found quite apt. Not to say he will be a Jason Ward, but it's not out of the question. If he did turn into a 4th line player, I wouldn't be that disapointed.
I have never watched Ward at the junior level but I'm not sure about the comparison. I think Latendresse will be a better point producer at the junior level when all is said and done. Also I'm sure he's much more intimidating physically than Ward was at the same age if I judge it from what I've seen of Ward years after having been drafted and what I've seen of Latendresse up to now. Ward has always been VERY shaky on his skates too and it took a while before he started being serious about improving his skating which doesn't seem to be the case with Latendresse who's working A LOT on his skating this summer.

Quote:
But I guess the thing I find frustrating about the Latendresse is the constant label as a steal and a future star. I don't mean to diminish him, but it's far from a given that he will be a top 6, all-star player. Let's take a little pressure of the kid, let him improve at his own pace, and if he is only a 4th line player, then we should be happy we got something out of him.
That's to be expected since he's been drafted by the habs

Agreed on all points.

Quote:
I think you're right in saying it's not out of the question that he becomes better than Bergeron, but right now, especially being so high on Bergeron, I don't see it as a strong possibility. It is a possibility though.
Since I'm very high on Latendresse I'm sure I see it as more of a possibility than others but it's lofty expectations for anyone who's not familiar with him.

Quote:
Edit: I gotta add a boxing question here. Vargas-Castillejo and Juarez-Soto. Did you see them? If so what did you think? The Soto fight was very good but the Vargas one was so-so.

Sept. 10th is the next big day though. Morales and Pacquiao in action Can't wait.
I haven't seen Rocky Juarez against Soto but I know he lost and that it's a surprise. I'm not very familiar with Juarez.

I did watch Vargas-Castillejo though and Vargas did a very good job working the body. He was good defensively and tried hard to put him away but Castillejo was rock solid. At one point in the fight I was hoping Vargas had spent himself and hoping to see Castillejo come back huge but that never really happened. Castillejo was just outclassed and didn't have the skills to compete in this fight. Easy decision for Vargas. I was glad it was only 10 rounds because there was nothing to be gained from another 2 rounds IMO.

Vargas was never my favourite though and I don't think he's a match for the top dogs. Right now I see him as a good step up for other young upcoming fighters. He still gives good fights though.

E = CH² is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 05:42 AM
  #40
ControlFreak
Registered User
 
ControlFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,052
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to ControlFreak
As mentionned in a previous thread, this must be one of the slowest news periods. So many questionable threads are started it's not even funny. Comparing Latendresse to Bergeron is like comparing Raisins to Apples right now. Until we even see Latendresse in an NHL training camp, we can't really compare the two. On top of that, they don't even play the same type of game. Nothing against Latendresse, but it's a bit early don't you think?

Really, sometimes reading certain posts is like watching a snippet from Terrence and Philip where posters like to share every brain fart with everyone.

"Hey Terrence!"
"What Philip?"
"Guillaumme Lantedresse is going to be better than ..... *faarrrrrrrrrrrrrt!*"
"Ha! Philip you farted!"



ControlFreak is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 07:20 AM
  #41
Habsaholic
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro
Why the rudeness?

He needs to feel better about himself, no problems here, if I can help....

Habsaholic is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 07:29 AM
  #42
Dragon
Registered User
 
Dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle
Hey; you're excited about the tenderness, now if people would just get as excited about the tender (Price), they'd at least be getting hyped about the better prospect.

Nice to see Guilly off to a good start this summer (10 pts in 4 games); as most of you know he was out with an injury last year at this time. If he can ever improve his first step significantly, the Habs will have a dandy power forward prospect on their hands. He will never be as fast as Bergeron, but he will be bigger, stronger and likely has better hands. Whether that develops into a higher NHL ceiling is questionable; skating is a pretty important component, as is character. Bergeron is not lacking in either of those departments.

I read an article yesterday where Timmins said every player they took in the 2005 draft was in their top 75. In other words, even Paquet and Kostitsyn were in the Habs top 75 draft list. Timmins also said the Habs had Latendresse "much higher."

I wonder if they had him in their top 15? Obviously the team thinks he can improve his skating, and it looks like he's already doing it given the reports I've read.

Mikus is a dark horse candidate IMO. I really liked his play at the under-18s, he's got good size, decent wheels, and sees the ice very well. He was easily the Czech's best player in the games I saw.

Add Mikus and Latendresse to Chippy, Plekanec, Kosty, Higgins, and Hossa; and Price to Halak and Danis, and the Habs are looking good at four of the five positions. Unfortunately, the neglected position is also perhaps the most important one...deeeefence.
Actually all the Habs' picks this year is in hockey news top 100 except Matt D'Agostini.

Dragon is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 08:06 AM
  #43
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
It's not a crazy thread at all, and not a terrible comparison using the 2nd round selection theme as the basis for argument.

I'm sure everybody who thought this was a stupid comparison also knew that Patrice Bergeron was going to reach the NHL right away, as a 2nd round pick out of the 'Q'.

Riiiight.
2nd round selection theme... well, the difference I see there is that nobody was really talking about Bergeron in the years leading up to the draft, he was a borderline 2nd/3rd round, probably wasn't scouted very much, got picked around where he was rated, maybe a bit higher, and then surprised the hell out of everybody who was asleep at the switch. Latendresse is pretty much the exact opposite (unless you go by CSB rankings alone, I guess), because he has been on radar as a potential top-10 guy for quite a while, and everybody had to take a look at him, etc.

Historically, I wonder what the track record is on guys who fall a lot on their draft day relative to their consensus rankings? I know there are a lot of surprise risers who get a lot of fanfare and attention as "steals", but who are some guys who have fallen drastically and then panned out to prove everybody wrong? I think of Bilodeau and Matt Higgins a lot, when Habs in that category come up. Ward dropped a bit, but not so so much. I'd be interested in any recollections anybody has. Not that it would prove anything in the case of Latendresse, because any single individual can buck any general trend out there, of course. But it's just a nagging curiosity.

Blind Gardien is online now  
Old
08-22-2005, 08:15 AM
  #44
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle
I read an article yesterday where Timmins said every player they took in the 2005 draft was in their top 75. In other words, even Paquet and Kostitsyn were in the Habs top 75 draft list. Timmins also said the Habs had Latendresse "much higher."
That doesn't surprise me a bit. I bet a lot of teams can say that. I don't know if it's laziness exactly, but I only rate around 80 players anymore, because over the past decade I've found that I'll almost always get to pick from my top-80, and it's a waste of time to make a longer list. I would bet the Habs had Latendresse in their top-15, based on their reactions. Despite people thinking that I bash him or whatever, I think I had him 8th or 9th among forwards myself, which is probably 15th-20th overall. I'm suprised at the inclusion of Paquet, though. That guy seems like a stretch wildcard pick, and it's hard to picture him on a top-75 list. On the back-pocket list of potential 7th rounders, sure, some teams keep separate back-pocket favourite lists for later, but I wouldn't think he'd make a top-75.

Blind Gardien is online now  
Old
08-22-2005, 08:31 AM
  #45
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
I have never watched Ward at the junior level but I'm not sure about the comparison. I think Latendresse will be a better point producer at the junior level when all is said and done. Also I'm sure he's much more intimidating physically than Ward was at the same age if I judge it from what I've seen of Ward years after having been drafted and what I've seen of Latendresse up to now.
It is worth noting that Ward made something of a quantum shift in his style after his second junior season, which carried through to this day. He was getting injured so often and had such a rep for being brittle that he really backed off on his aggressive style in his 3rd season. Before that, he was as aggressive (although I would say less effective and therefore less "intimidating") as Latendresse, but a lot more intense and consistent. Some people might prefer to compare that prior Ward to Chipchura, which IMHO is very fair too, more stylistically accurate, although there are elements that reflect to Latendresse as well, even though they aren't stylistically as similar.

After that change.... well, if anything, I would say Ward became more like the Latendresse I've seen personally, in that he kind of cruised and picked his spots more sporadically. (But I know that other people don't see that in Latendresse, and I'm handcuffed from only seeing him in all the tourney games last year on TV).
Quote:
Ward has always been VERY shaky on his skates too and it took a while before he started being serious about improving his skating which doesn't seem to be the case with Latendresse who's working A LOT on his skating this summer.
I don't think it would be particularly realistic to say that Ward was less interested or less dilligent (or less aware of the need) in improving his skating. Maybe there is less attention focused on him, because Latendresse if everybody's backyard home-town demi-god pick, and Ward was yet another in the long line of question marks (media perception). Also, some of his injury issues might actually have held him back from that at the time. Although my vague recollection is that the wrist problems were the worst for him. (?)

Blind Gardien is online now  
Old
08-22-2005, 08:37 AM
  #46
Le depisteur
Registered User
 
Le depisteur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Québec
Posts: 3,799
vCash: 500
5 pts pre-season game for Latendresse...

... against Shawinigan. 2 goals and 3 pts for Bourret...

http://www.lhjmq.qc.ca/lang_fr/inde...8364bc9b2b1e4cb

Le depisteur is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 08:38 AM
  #47
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice
I wonder how many of you saw Guillaume "Tenderfoot" Tendresse in the under 18 tournament last year? He was flopping around like a whale beached on the north shore. This kid has a long, long, long way to go before he even plays in the AHL and some of you are comparing him to Bergeon. Give me a break! I hope I'm wrong but G.T. is another Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Jason Ward. He can't skate. And wasn't Timmons the one who said that Kostsityn was ready to play in the NHL last year at the rookie camp?
Thats a great way to distort comments. He said he already had NHL ready skills(shot, skating, playmaking, dekes) but needed to round up his game.

Isnt Timmins also the guy that really pushed hard for Martin Havlat in Ottawa?

Habsaku is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 08:51 AM
  #48
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,300
vCash: 500
From the start Patrice Bergeron played like a first round draft choice even though he was selected in the second round. He has nothing further to prove. By the time Latendresse hits the NHL Bergeron will have several seasons as a regular under his belt and will have made a major contribution to the Bruins. Latendresse is a prospect, just that. Although he has assets (a shot and a propensity for hitting defensemen against the boards), his skating is far from outstanding. He could turn out to be another Terry Ryan or Lindsay Vallis. Projecting him as a star is ludicrous until he actually appears in a Canadiens uniform. I could hardly imagine him getting breakaways from his own zone or keeping up with fast linemates (he could be responsible for quite a few offsides or losses of possession as his linemates wait for him to lumber up to the offensive blueline). For him to succeed he will have to improve his skating speed. To sum up, he will first have to make the NHL before he can compete with Bergeron.

Corey is offline  
Old
08-22-2005, 08:59 AM
  #49
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
That one game you saw makes you an authority on the matter and you're not being harsh at all.


Did you watch him at the top prospect game ? He showed some sweet stuff. Did you watch him in the Q toward the end of the season and in the playoffs ? He was dominant.

Kind of presumptuous on your part, don't you think. At that tournament I saw him play 3 games. (It may seem as one game to you because he was doing the same thing in each one - tripping over the blueline every game). And yes I saw him at the prospect game. He still couldn't skate there but I guess that's sweet for you.

So let's go with the Q playoffs. He excels at a meet where most of the competing players won't get past ECHL hockey. Is this what you base your ceiling on.

He has some good points (not great, good). He has size, strength and a decent shot. But he has a major, major defect. His skating. And having reached 18 and still having that defect, I'll bet you your donuts to my dollars that skating will always be an issue with this kid. And its not just speed and acceleration. His balance is piss poor. He needs a city block to turn and another city block to stop and that's when he's not falling on his face.

Maybe the Canadiens are miracle workers and can turn his skating around. I wouldn't hold my breathe. They haven't done it till now with any of their prospects (re: Ward, Stevenson, Higgins, Ryan).

And yes, taking a chance on Latendresse in the second round may be a good move but please leave it at that. His ceiling right now is not higher than Bergeon and never will be.

onice is online now  
Old
08-22-2005, 09:03 AM
  #50
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,300
vCash: 500
Every pick in the top 75 (per Timmins)? If every team feels that way, they must have discovered the secret of how to squeeze 210 pounds into a 75-pound bag. Either that or virtually every team doesn't know how to judge talent and becomes exuberantly optimistic at draft time. I'll be more than content if three of the drafted prospects eventually get to play for the Habs and rest get to play for Hamilton.

Corey is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.