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Prospect Thread XXVII

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Old
06-11-2014, 07:25 PM
  #776
arsmaster
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
That just shows a lack of progression on his part.
C'mon man.

At the time Bozon was a better prospect.

You know who has showed a lack of progression? MALLET.

You can't sugar coat this selection. It was poor from the instant it happened. We can all try hard to rationalize it, but it was poor scouting.

I won't be sad if we NEVER draft a 3rd time eligible again.

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06-11-2014, 07:57 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't see what Khaira or Bozon offer over Mallet. Hell, they couldn't even replicate Mallet's 19 year old scoring numbers this year. Maybe they develop better from here but so far they've shown to be inferior.
Yeah I don't see as much from them, but a guy like Severson who has gotten better each year, and was 2 years younger than Mallet was just an obviously better pick than a 20 year old.

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06-11-2014, 08:12 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
C'mon man.

At the time Bozon was a better prospect.

You know who has showed a lack of progression? MALLET.

You can't sugar coat this selection. It was poor from the instant it happened. We can all try hard to rationalize it, but it was poor scouting.

I won't be sad if we NEVER draft a 3rd time eligible again.
It's fine if you do it right - there are guys who have fallen through the cracks who you can do very well with. Tanner Pearson and Andrew Shaw are two in the past couple years. JC Lipon was taken in the 3rd round in 2013 and immediately scored 42 points in the AHL this year.

But Mallet was a stretch, especially given who was on the board. I can see what they were thinking, and in the 3rd round fine.

The bigger problem, of course, is our QMJHL scouting in the 2008-2012 drafts. Just appalling.

That 2010 Canuck draft list that was leaked last June was grossly under-reported and under-appreciated at the time for what a Rosetta Stone into our problems it was.

In 2010, we had 7 QMJHL players rated in the top 36 picks, in what was probably the worst QMJHL draft in history - 1 guy was selected in the top 50 picks. For that to happen, your scouting is completely, utterly broken. Both at the regional level, and at higher levels to allow for such a completely flawed, skewed list to guide our drafting.

When that happens in 2010, it's no surprise that we see a Mallet selected too high in 2012.

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06-11-2014, 08:30 PM
  #779
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Maybe it's a good thing we didn't have a single pick until the fourth that year then.

If we had 7 in the top 36 and Gormley was one of them, that means we would have likely picked 3 QMJHL players in the first three rounds.

Aside from Michael Bournival and Tye McGinn, not a single one has played in the NHL to this day, and none are looking to hit the big leagues any time soon.

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06-11-2014, 10:21 PM
  #780
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If anyone is interested in looking back at who liked the Mallet pick and who was against it, here is the draft day thread.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...exandre+mallet

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06-11-2014, 11:35 PM
  #781
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I laughed at the "The canucks never draft a 5/10 kid with extreme skill.

Then some guy linked JS as a come back

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06-11-2014, 11:50 PM
  #782
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still lol @ that sawyer hannay pick, i mean seriously what were our scouts thinking

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Old
06-12-2014, 12:35 AM
  #783
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still lol @ that sawyer hannay pick, i mean seriously what were our scouts thinking
Yeah - cause 7th round picks are usually sure bets.

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06-12-2014, 01:00 AM
  #784
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Yeah - cause 7th round picks are usually sure bets.
Just because most 7th round picks don't make it doesn't mean the team should draft my grandma and 100% guarantee they'll get nothing from the pick.

A no-talent scrub like Hannay is a waste of that pick the second it's made.

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06-12-2014, 01:12 AM
  #785
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To put things in perspective, Hannay scored 1 goal in 228 games in the QMJHL.

John Scott has 2 goals in 236 games in the NHL, and their respective leagues are two levels apart.

I realize at the 7th round, you're not really expecting much. But to blow it on a goon who displays 0 potential and are dime a dozen at minimal cost in the NHL is a complete waste of selection.

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06-12-2014, 01:26 AM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
To put things in perspective, Hannay scored 1 goal in 228 games in the QMJHL.

John Scott has 2 goals in 236 games in the NHL, and their respective leagues are two levels apart.

I realize at the 7th round, you're not really expecting much. But to blow it on a goon who displays 0 potential and are dime a dozen at minimal cost in the NHL is a complete waste of selection.
The crazy part is that he was never that good a fighter either.

You'd think if you were going to go goon with the pick, the guy would be a truly elite fighter. But, at best he was an average enforcer. Our scouts couldn't even figure out who the best fighters were, much less best prospects.

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06-12-2014, 02:45 AM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
If anyone is interested in looking back at who liked the Mallet pick and who was against it, here is the draft day thread.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...exandre+mallet
Yep, most weren't against it and were already questioning our QMJHL scouting.

Myself, along with a couple other people were saying it could be good, but he needs to show he's ready for the pro-levels right away otherwise it's a crap pick. Lots of people saying we weren't being patient, but it was just the truth. You expect a 20 year old pick in 2012 to be a pro level contributor just the same way you expect a 20 year old 2010 draft pick to do the same. Difference being that the 2010 pick gets two years to develop and you can decide whether you want to sign them.

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06-12-2014, 01:03 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by IComeInPeace View Post
The crazy part is that he was never that good a fighter either.

You'd think if you were going to go goon with the pick, the guy would be a truly elite fighter. But, at best he was an average enforcer. Our scouts couldn't even figure out who the best fighters were, much less best prospects.

Reminds me of that time we drafted the goalie coach's kid, forget his name.

Seems like every single time we've gone to the QMJHL we've been burned. Right through all rounds. From Bourdon (RIP) in the 1st, to Mallet or even Marc-Andre Bernier in 2003 (two spots before Backes) to plugs like Hannay. Really even worse than the WHL. I think the last good pick we've had from the Q was Odjick.

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Old
06-12-2014, 01:31 PM
  #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
If anyone is interested in looking back at who liked the Mallet pick and who was against it, here is the draft day thread.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...exandre+mallet


Wow, what a drama queen..
Quote:
NOOOOOOOO Damon Seversonnnnnnnnnn

I was so happy and excited after round 1, and I went to sleep hoping that one of Damon Severson (unlikely) or Brian Hart would fall to our spot. The unlikely guy fell! So disappointed we didn't select him... because we don't have enough ****ing overagers already. 4 of our 4 picks in rounds 2-7 were overagers. So sad.

Severson is close to being 2013 eligible. His development should skyrocket on Kelowna, an NHL-dman-factory. 2013 eligible? Nah, let's take the guy who's 2010 eligible.

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06-12-2014, 01:34 PM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
Reminds me of that time we drafted the goalie coach's kid, forget his name.

Seems like every single time we've gone to the QMJHL we've been burned. Right through all rounds. From Bourdon (RIP) in the 1st, to Mallet or even Marc-Andre Bernier in 2003 (two spots before Backes) to plugs like Hannay. Really even worse than the WHL. I think the last good pick we've had from the Q was Odjick.
The immortal Morgan Clark!

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Old
06-12-2014, 01:36 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
Reminds me of that time we drafted the goalie coach's kid, forget his name.

Seems like every single time we've gone to the QMJHL we've been burned. Right through all rounds. From Bourdon (RIP) in the 1st, to Mallet or even Marc-Andre Bernier in 2003 (two spots before Backes) to plugs like Hannay. Really even worse than the WHL. I think the last good pick we've had from the Q was Odjick.
Last QMJHL draft pick to play over 100 NHL games was Odjick, 24 years ago. Although granted, we ignored that league for the entirety of the 1990s - only 2 guys taken with late round picks between Odjick in 1990 and Brandon Reid in 2000.

Reid and Jason King were decent enough picks in terms of organizational value - didn't turn out fully, but the scouts were at least on the right track.

Since King in 2001, we've had 13 straight picks that were outright stinkers and just outright poor scouting. Only Bourdon (decent player but awful pick) and Grenier even became decent AHL players.

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06-12-2014, 01:44 PM
  #792
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Sometimes I wonder if our QMJHL scouts are just plants by other teams to make sure our franchise drafts poorly.

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06-12-2014, 02:04 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
Sometimes I wonder if our QMJHL scouts are just plants by other teams to make sure our franchise drafts poorly.
They're still probably better than our WHL scouts.

Gillis' single biggest failure here was his failure to overhaul our broken scouting system, and his decision to leave hopeless dinosaurs like Ron Delorme in place to continue failing indefinitely.

The result is we see things like our 2010 draft list, which was just an utter embarrassment - not surprising our scouting is failing, at all.

The one area Gillis did make change was in Ontario, a region he knew best - and just as unsurprisingly, when we bring new/competent blood in a region, we've actually started to get excellent results from there.

Hopefully Linden and Benning don't repeat that mistake ... although given Linden's ties to Canuck alumni like Delorme/Smyl/Snepsts, I'm not holding my breath.

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06-12-2014, 02:06 PM
  #794
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Sometimes I wonder if our QMJHL scouts are just plants.
Me too!

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06-12-2014, 02:23 PM
  #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
They're still probably better than our WHL scouts.

Gillis' single biggest failure here was his failure to overhaul our broken scouting system, and his decision to leave hopeless dinosaurs like Ron Delorme in place to continue failing indefinitely.

The result is we see things like our 2010 draft list, which was just an utter embarrassment - not surprising our scouting is failing, at all.

The one area Gillis did make change was in Ontario, a region he knew best - and just as unsurprisingly, when we bring new/competent blood in a region, we've actually started to get excellent results from there.

Hopefully Linden and Benning don't repeat that mistake ... although given Linden's ties to Canuck alumni like Delorme/Smyl/Snepsts, I'm not holding my breath.
I agree, but Gillis did start to overhaul the system in the last few years. He just did it politely by shuffling the garbage to other roles and ignoring them. The 2013 draft was a lot better (imo) after Eric Crawford was put in charge. I hope Benning/Linden keep him there, because Crawford sure seemed to have a better handle on who to listen to/ignore.

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06-12-2014, 02:56 PM
  #796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
Sometimes I wonder if our QMJHL scouts are just plants by other teams to make sure our franchise drafts poorly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
Me too!
I dunno...I wonder if a houseplant would better decisions.

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06-12-2014, 03:11 PM
  #797
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Fire everyone scouting for our Q in the last 5-10 years. Really need to clean house there.

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06-12-2014, 03:26 PM
  #798
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I agree, but Gillis did start to overhaul the system in the last few years. He just did it politely by shuffling the garbage to other roles and ignoring them. The 2013 draft was a lot better (imo) after Eric Crawford was put in charge. I hope Benning/Linden keep him there, because Crawford sure seemed to have a better handle on who to listen to/ignore.
Agreed that the 2013 draft was better.

But these problems should have been obvious from the second Gillis took over, and it shouldn't have taken him 6 drafts to fix them.

And shuffling/ignoring garbage isn't really a solution either - all it means is that we never draft anyone out of the WHL and QMJHL instead of drafting bad players out of there. Very disappointing on all fronts.

(And for the record, I'm a pretty big Gillis supporter who doesn't believe he should have been fired)

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06-12-2014, 03:29 PM
  #799
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I dunno...I wonder if a houseplant would better decisions.
I'd be comfortable leafing it up to one to ficus.

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06-12-2014, 07:05 PM
  #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
Agreed that the 2013 draft was better.

But these problems should have been obvious from the second Gillis took over, and it shouldn't have taken him 6 drafts to fix them.

And shuffling/ignoring garbage isn't really a solution either - all it means is that we never draft anyone out of the WHL and QMJHL instead of drafting bad players out of there. Very disappointing on all fronts.

(And for the record, I'm a pretty big Gillis supporter who doesn't believe he should have been fired)
Except we did draft a player from the WHL last year, and if I remember corectly we have one of the biggest scouting departments in the league.

No doubt our drafting has been horrible, but it is harder to figure out who is good from who is bad with no sample size. We looked great last year, but that is small sample. What would Gillis have to work with when he came in? I can understand it taking a few years to re-organizing the department.

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