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Defensemen lead New Jersey Devils 2013-14 prospect awards

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04-23-2014, 05:42 PM
  #51
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I thought Zidlicky was very good this season. Yes he takes risk and he sometimes plays loose in his own zone but he moves the puck like no other player on the team, forget about just dmen, he can rush the puck and back off defenders as well as anyone on the team...he was a very large part of our OT wins this season because of that ability... regardless of how many points he put up, his skating and overall skill actually won us games this season.

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04-23-2014, 06:00 PM
  #52
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there was very few appearances of the zidiot as the season rolled on, i don't see any reasons to not bring him back.

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04-23-2014, 06:03 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Liams brorsa View Post
I am of the firm belief that in todays NHL, you need scoring defensemen almost as much as you need scoring forwards. And Zidlicky definitely provides just that. Just to have offensive d takes a lot of pressure off of the forwards.
Nah...plenty of teams won the cup with lower scoring defensemen...you definitely need defensemen that can move the puck, find open passing lanes, make the outlet pass and get shots through... but scoring goals is just a luxury item that isn't necessary if you have a top 6 that does their job.

When LA won the cup Doughty was LA's leading defenseman scorer with 36 points, Carolina was 38points, when Pittsburgh won Letang was the leader with 33 points....those aren't earth shattering numbers. Teams win cups without a Norris caliber dmen and they are a helluva lot harder to find than 3 forwards that can put up 30 goals and 3 forwards that can put up 20.


Last edited by Aethon: 04-23-2014 at 06:21 PM.
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04-23-2014, 06:44 PM
  #54
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All of those teams got phenomenal playoff scoring from defense.

Last 6 Cup winners playoff defensemen scoring:

CHI '13 - Keith 13 in 22
LAK '12 - Doughty 16 in 20
BOS '11 - Seidenberg 11 in 25 (two others with +10)
CHI '10 - Keith 17 in 22
PIT '09 - Gonchar 14 in 22
DET '08 - Kronwall 15 in 22

Last 6 Runners up:

BOS '13 - Chara 15 in 22
NJD '12 - Salvador 14 in 24 (!)
VAN '11 - Ehrhoff 12 in 23 (two others +10)
PHI '10 - Pronger 18 in 23
DET '09 - Lidstrom 16 in 21
PIT '08 - Gonchar 14 in 20

2011 was the only time in the past 6 years where BOTH teams in the SCF didn't have a 0.5 PPG or higher defenseman during the playoffs (and both 2011 teams had multiple D just under that mark).

Teams don't go deep unless they get significant offense from the back end.

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04-23-2014, 10:01 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
I thought Zidlicky was very good this season. Yes he takes risk and he sometimes plays loose in his own zone but he moves the puck like no other player on the team, forget about just dmen, he can rush the puck and back off defenders as well as anyone on the team...he was a very large part of our OT wins this season because of that ability... regardless of how many points he put up, his skating and overall skill actually won us games this season.
Same and I have been one of his biggest critics before this year.

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04-23-2014, 10:33 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
All of those teams got phenomenal playoff scoring from defense.

Last 6 Cup winners playoff defensemen scoring:

CHI '13 - Keith 13 in 22
LAK '12 - Doughty 16 in 20
BOS '11 - Seidenberg 11 in 25 (two others with +10)
CHI '10 - Keith 17 in 22
PIT '09 - Gonchar 14 in 22
DET '08 - Kronwall 15 in 22

Last 6 Runners up:

BOS '13 - Chara 15 in 22
NJD '12 - Salvador 14 in 24 (!)
VAN '11 - Ehrhoff 12 in 23 (two others +10)
PHI '10 - Pronger 18 in 23
DET '09 - Lidstrom 16 in 21
PIT '08 - Gonchar 14 in 20

2011 was the only time in the past 6 years where BOTH teams in the SCF didn't have a 0.5 PPG or higher defenseman during the playoffs (and both 2011 teams had multiple D just under that mark).

Teams don't go deep unless they get significant offense from the back end.
Points are a little misleading. Most of the defensemen points are going to come on the strength of the forwards...If you look at what I said that started this conversation is goals from dmen are a bonus, they are like found money...and defenseman on a cup winning team hasn't scored more than 4 goals in the last 6 years...look at the leading dman goal scores from the cup winner in the last 6 years....goals from Dmen are pretty insignificant and if you look at this list in 5 of the 6 years its not even the best dman on the team...

Which goes directly to what I said previously; moving the puck, first pass, hitting the open man, getting your shot through is important... goal scoring not at all.

2013 Hawks Oduya / Seabrook 3 goals
2012 Kings Doughty 4 goals
2011 Bruins Ference 4 goals
2010 Hawks Byfuglien 11 but played forward. Seabrook 4 goals
2009 Pens Eaton 4 goals
2008 Wings Rafalski 4 goals

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Old
04-23-2014, 10:50 PM
  #57
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Oh and Salvador had 4 goals too in 2012 . Dynamic! LOL

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04-23-2014, 10:59 PM
  #58
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On the topic of young defense, which guys do you see having an NHL career of some sort? Who has the highest ceiling? Who do you think is overrated?

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04-23-2014, 11:13 PM
  #59
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I never got why Larsson was in the AHL but Merrill was up in the NHL. Especially since my untrained eye Larsson was playing well. Sending Larsson down just seemed like a move that would piss off Larsson and not that much of a gain with Merrill. Again I haven't looked at the stats but still.

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04-23-2014, 11:18 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roomtemperature View Post
I never got why Larsson was in the AHL but Merrill was up in the NHL. Especially since my untrained eye Larsson was playing well. Sending Larsson down just seemed like a move that would piss off Larsson and not that much of a gain with Merrill. Again I haven't looked at the stats but still.
He got hurt and Merrill came up and played well to the point that when Larsson healed they decided to leave him in Albany

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04-23-2014, 11:20 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Roomtemperature View Post
I never got why Larsson was in the AHL but Merrill was up in the NHL. Especially since my untrained eye Larsson was playing well. Sending Larsson down just seemed like a move that would piss off Larsson and not that much of a gain with Merrill. Again I haven't looked at the stats but still.
Merrill earned the trust of the coaching staff pretty quickly, whereas it feels like Larsson never really has since Robinson left.

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04-23-2014, 11:22 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by MadDevil View Post
Merrill earned the trust of the coaching staff pretty quickly, whereas it feels like Larsson never really has since Robinson left.
Part of it was bad luck. He got hurt, and Merrill came up and did what he needed to do to make it very hard to send him back. There wasn't any room for Larsson until the injuries piled up.

Him and Gely should of swapped places, but that shot kept Gely around over him as well.

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04-24-2014, 12:13 AM
  #63
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Yeah Merrill definitely earned his time up here. It was probably hard enough for him considering Greene was glued to the one RH shot on D that could play good defense. Having a rookie try to clean up after Zidlicky (or Gelinas) is not ideal.

That's why I think this team really needs a new veteran presence on D. There was only one pairing on the team that played together consistently through the season and saw good results. I have faith Merrill will continue to develop next season, but we have no idea how he'll hold up over 82 games and there aren't many options after him. On top of that, is he the right guy to stick with Zidlicky for a full season? That's some combo of Volch, Salvador, and Larsson on the third pairing. Unless Larsson explodes next season, both those players will likely drag him down and have him spending most of his ice time in the defensive zone. Or we could put Volchenkov - Salvador back together as a consistent pairing and shoot for McDavid!

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04-24-2014, 07:00 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Emperoreddy View Post
On the topic of young defense, which guys do you see having an NHL career of some sort? Who has the highest ceiling? Who do you think is overrated?
Top pairing potential: Merrill,
Severson, Larsson. Severson = highest ceiling.

Shutdown men: Santini and Helgeson.

Wild cards: Gelinas, Scarlett and Hrabarenka.

If Gelinas can learn to play good defense, he may very well have the highest ceiling of them all.

Most overrated: Larsson
Most underrated: Helgeson
Most likely to succeed: Merrill
Most potential to surprise:Hrabarenka
Biggest Unknown: Gelinas

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04-24-2014, 07:25 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Top pairing potential: Merrill,
Severson, Larsson. Severson = highest ceiling.

Shutdown men: Santini and Helgeson.

Wild cards: Gelinas, Scarlett and Hrabarenka.

If Gelinas can learn to play good defense, he may very well have the highest ceiling of them all.

Most overrated: Larsson
Most underrated: Helgeson
Most likely to succeed: Merrill
Most potential to surprise:Hrabarenka
Biggest Unknown: Gelinas
I might put Severson there too

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04-24-2014, 07:58 AM
  #66
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Funny thing is I think they all can be NHL dmen.

But I tend to be a little optimistic when it comes to dmen.

I still think Corrente was a good dman

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04-24-2014, 08:00 AM
  #67
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Do we think Larsson is overrated? Or just unlikely/questionable to reach potential?

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04-24-2014, 08:04 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Funny thing is I think they all can be NHL dmen.

But I tend to be a little optimistic when it comes to dmen.

I still think Corrente was a good dman
You know I was never sold on Corrente and it was based on nothing more than a hunch. I wonder if he's even still playing.

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04-24-2014, 08:06 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Funny thing is I think they all can be NHL dmen.

But I tend to be a little optimistic when it comes to dmen.

I still think Corrente was a good dman
Well since I've been looking to get a positive take on our best +/- d-man in albany, what do you think of McPherson? Any possibility?

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04-24-2014, 08:26 AM
  #70
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Do we think Larsson is overrated? Or just unlikely/questionable to reach potential?
I think he is unlikely to reach the potential of a former #4 overall...Doesn't mean he wont be a good d-man though,

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsblood View Post
Well since I've been looking to get a positive take on our best +/- d-man in albany, what do you think of McPherson? Any possibility?
Corbin has tough road...He is already 25 and probably has at least 9 D-men in front of him on the depth chart. Highly unlikely he'll make it.

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04-24-2014, 10:50 AM
  #71
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I think Scarlett is really underrated.

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04-24-2014, 11:26 AM
  #72
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I think Scarlett is really underrated.
Numbers have certainly been impressive. Worry about that size though?

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04-24-2014, 11:27 AM
  #73
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zids should be almost PP-exclusive IMO. 42 points is great, but when he's not scoring, he's usually turning it over or making our PKers waste time killing stupid penalties. people want larsson to replace sal, well I want him to replace zid. or merrill, ideally.

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04-24-2014, 03:33 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Funny thing is I think they all can be NHL dmen.

But I tend to be a little optimistic when it comes to dmen.

I still think Corrente was a good dman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Bass View Post
You know I was never sold on Corrente and it was based on nothing more than a hunch. I wonder if he's even still playing.
Yes Corrente is still playing. I have gone to about 5 Charlotte Checkers games down here and he is used in all situations. Think they use him as the Vet D-man.

He is pretty solid, the injuries hampered his development as he eventually got passd up or became un-dependable physically. He doesnt seem to play the wreckless style he had in the past that always ended up in a freak injury.
he doesnt look overly large on the ice but you notice his odd posture out there, kinda hard to explain, but it is noticable.

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04-24-2014, 03:36 PM
  #75
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Charlotte....Checkers?

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