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Old
04-22-2014, 12:31 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
did CBJ play not to lose in the 3rd? outshot what 18-3 in a critical 3rd game?
pathetic.
I missed it, but according to a friend giving me play by play it looked like they tried to protect the lead and coast home for about 30 damned minutes.

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04-22-2014, 12:46 AM
  #252
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Dubinsky looks like a monster though. Really stepping it up for them.

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04-22-2014, 12:50 AM
  #253
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Can't blame the guy, though. YOLO
Ah he crossed the line when he ditched a fan related event about 20 minutes into it for the hell of it. It was his final act in getting himself out of Columbus.

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04-22-2014, 01:33 AM
  #254
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Ah he crossed the line when he ditched a fan related event about 20 minutes into it for the hell of it. It was his final act in getting himself out of Columbus.
This kind of situation shows exactly why NMC are put into contracts, though, and it's also the reason I hate the fact that trades exist. It's tough on players, because when the teams want to trade them and they actually exercise their NMC, the fans hold a grudge. But then if they don't have it and they get traded somewhere they don't want to be on a long-term contract, those new fans expect them to be happy no matter what. But five or however many years is a good chunk of one's life, so I don't know. For all I care, he could've done pretty much anything to get himself out of there, and I still wouldn't hold it against him. Screw fan-related events

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04-22-2014, 02:05 AM
  #255
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Astounding levels of incompetence. The guys running the show in the NHL really only run the show because they have the connections. There are so many people who could do so much better than guys like Nonis or Feaster but would never get the opportunity to do so because they never played at a high enough level.

It's a shame that the best league in the world in terms of on-ice talent is so woefully poor at finding the best managerial talent to complement it. I have absolutely no doubt that there are probably a handful of really intelligent people on HFboards who would make better GMs than many of the guys in charge.

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04-22-2014, 04:43 AM
  #256
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I have absolutely no doubt that there are probably a handful of really intelligent people on HFboards who would make better GMs than many of the guys in charge.
Thanks man. Very nice of you.

But who are the other four guys?




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04-22-2014, 07:24 AM
  #257
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What's the deal with islander fans?
Not winning a playoff series since 1993 has to be tough to deal with. So they lash out.

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04-22-2014, 08:07 AM
  #258
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Astounding levels of incompetence. The guys running the show in the NHL really only run the show because they have the connections. There are so many people who could do so much better than guys like Nonis or Feaster but would never get the opportunity to do so because they never played at a high enough level.

It's a shame that the best league in the world in terms of on-ice talent is so woefully poor at finding the best managerial talent to complement it. I have absolutely no doubt that there are probably a handful of really intelligent people on HFboards who would make better GMs than many of the guys in charge.
I understand how everyone likes to use these stats but we all have to realize they are in their infancy stages at this point. I am not for or against the analytical side of the game but will say fans that think GM's are incompetent or don't know the game are just wrong. There are desperation moves that GM's make but we never really get the full story behind all the moves. Owners, scouts, and a lot of other people have a fair share of input into the hockey world that goes unnoticed, especially around here. Homer gets his fair share of hate on these boards but the man does know one thing, it's hockey. While we all wanted to blow the team up after the 1-7 start, Homer kept his wits about him and watched the team develop. They came together after the rough start and now look at us. He keeps this team competitive almost every year he has taken over and we are almost always on the inside when it comes to playoffs.

Corsi+Fenwick have their flaws and like Nonis said they are interesting but that's not how you build a team. NHL teams have much better resources than what player shoots the puck more while on the ice than the other(simply put of course). The zone starts and ends I believe are a much better start. Even they are flawed though because shifts usually will go back and forth probably 2 times while they are on the ice. They also help teams understand why some players are not living up to offensive stats(Couturier) because he is stuck in a defensive role. People also call corsi "possession" but I don't think it is. When a team keeps the puck on their stick and cycle the puck and keep the defensive players hemmed in that is puck possession. Players like Dats and Giroux excel at puck possession and they make their game off that.

Rick Nash is a good example of this. He has 13 shots on net, but 10 probably came from the point when he brought the puck in the zone. All easy shots for the goalie to see. Does that mean he is outplaying the others on the ice? Nash has not had a good series but leads them in shots. His play has been average at best where he has had one or two good shifts followed up by crap.

Corsi and Fenwick are interesting to the hockey world but GM's are more resourceful than these I believe. We of course have teams that will look and use these stats somewhat in their decisions but we have people around here that rely on these stats as their end all, which simply is wrong.

Hockey being a 5 player game is very hard to gauge when you take individual stats like those. It's not about one player on the ice at any given time but all 5.

I probably will get people who definitely disagree with this post lol

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04-22-2014, 08:27 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Dubinsky looks like a monster though. Really stepping it up for them.
Dubinsky almost tied it up by himself in the waning seconds of the third. Really impressive, he made Paul Martin look stupid.

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04-22-2014, 08:43 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Dubinsky almost tied it up by himself in the waning seconds of the third. Really impressive, he made Paul Martin look stupid.
Yep, tried to stuff it himself but at the same time it ended up being a great pass to Johansen, Jussi Jokinen made a great play on him defensively right before the buzzer. Brooks Orpick looked like a pylon on that play too. Just standing in front of Fleury with his stick up in the air not making a play on Dubinsky, the puck or Johansen.

Skip to 11:20


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Old
04-22-2014, 10:56 AM
  #261
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Watching the game last night, I couldn't believe the way Martin played Dubinsky's final rush. Just dreadful defensive play, especially in the waning seconds of the game.

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04-22-2014, 11:27 AM
  #262
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This was pretty hilarious.

Craig Berube waited over a decade to punch Jeremy Roenick in the face

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Old
04-22-2014, 11:28 AM
  #263
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This kind of situation shows exactly why NMC are put into contracts, though, and it's also the reason I hate the fact that trades exist. It's tough on players, because when the teams want to trade them and they actually exercise their NMC, the fans hold a grudge. But then if they don't have it and they get traded somewhere they don't want to be on a long-term contract, those new fans expect them to be happy no matter what. But five or however many years is a good chunk of one's life, so I don't know. For all I care, he could've done pretty much anything to get himself out of there, and I still wouldn't hold it against him. Screw fan-related events
That's where me & you differ then, it's a business & these guys know what they sign up for. It's the cost of doing business. Me & every average Joe would gladly trade our everyday problems for those kind of "problems". These guys are getting paid a boat load of cash to essentially play a child's game so no I don't feel sorry for them when they get traded.

As for Carter skipping out on the fan event, it's low. The fans in Columbus never did anything to him to deserve that type of action. They were excited to see a new top player on their team & he essentially told them to go **** themselves. I don't think it's very wise to bite the hand that feeds you, without the fans Carter & every other athlete wouldn't have such privileged lives.

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04-22-2014, 11:39 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
That's where me & you differ then, it's a business & these guys know what they sign up for. It's the cost of doing business. Me & every average Joe would gladly trade our everyday problems for those kind of "problems". These guys are getting paid a boat load of cash to essentially play a child's game so no I don't feel sorry for them when they get traded.
disagree
If my boss told me that I was getting transferred to Columbus-Ohio, I'd be looking for a new job less than 10 minutes after that.

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04-22-2014, 11:45 AM
  #265
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Imagine if a Flyers goalie gave up three goals on three consecutive shots in the third to lose the game.

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04-22-2014, 11:48 AM
  #266
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disagree
If my boss told me that I was getting transferred to Columbus-Ohio, I'd be looking for a new job less than 10 minutes after that.
Good luck with that in today's economy.

Comparing everyday life jobs with professional sports isn't exactly a great comparison neither.

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04-22-2014, 11:51 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I understand how everyone likes to use these stats but we all have to realize they are in their infancy stages at this point. I am not for or against the analytical side of the game but will say fans that think GM's are incompetent or don't know the game are just wrong. There are desperation moves that GM's make but we never really get the full story behind all the moves. Owners, scouts, and a lot of other people have a fair share of input into the hockey world that goes unnoticed, especially around here. Homer gets his fair share of hate on these boards but the man does know one thing, it's hockey. While we all wanted to blow the team up after the 1-7 start, Homer kept his wits about him and watched the team develop. They came together after the rough start and now look at us. He keeps this team competitive almost every year he has taken over and we are almost always on the inside when it comes to playoffs.

Corsi+Fenwick have their flaws and like Nonis said they are interesting but that's not how you build a team. NHL teams have much better resources than what player shoots the puck more while on the ice than the other(simply put of course). The zone starts and ends I believe are a much better start. Even they are flawed though because shifts usually will go back and forth probably 2 times while they are on the ice. They also help teams understand why some players are not living up to offensive stats(Couturier) because he is stuck in a defensive role. People also call corsi "possession" but I don't think it is. When a team keeps the puck on their stick and cycle the puck and keep the defensive players hemmed in that is puck possession. Players like Dats and Giroux excel at puck possession and they make their game off that.

Rick Nash is a good example of this. He has 13 shots on net, but 10 probably came from the point when he brought the puck in the zone. All easy shots for the goalie to see. Does that mean he is outplaying the others on the ice? Nash has not had a good series but leads them in shots. His play has been average at best where he has had one or two good shifts followed up by crap.

Corsi and Fenwick are interesting to the hockey world but GM's are more resourceful than these I believe. We of course have teams that will look and use these stats somewhat in their decisions but we have people around here that rely on these stats as their end all, which simply is wrong.

Hockey being a 5 player game is very hard to gauge when you take individual stats like those. It's not about one player on the ice at any given time but all 5.

I probably will get people who definitely disagree with this post lol
You're not supposed to think about advanced statistics. You're supposed to just accept them as fact and use them, in conjunction with a healthy dose on condescension, to belittle people on the internet.

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Old
04-22-2014, 11:55 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
did CBJ play not to lose in the 3rd? outshot what 18-3 in a critical 3rd game?
pathetic.
I watched the first two periods, and Columbus was doing everything right. They were on every puck, dangerous extended time in the Pitt zone, blocking up the neutral zone, attacking Penguin puck-carriers with zeal. Pittsburgh looked completely out of it. Then Orpik (!) scores with 1 second left in the 2nd when Columbus started running around in their own end for the first time in the game. I went downstairs between periods and when I came back to the TV, it was 4-3. Wow. 3 goals on 3 shots in about 2:30 minutes. I think Columbus did try to go into shutdown mode too early after regaining the two-goal cushion, and Bob didn't give them the timely stops they needed at that point like he had in the first two periods.

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04-22-2014, 11:56 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
That's where me & you differ then, it's a business & these guys know what they sign up for. It's the cost of doing business. Me & every average Joe would gladly trade our everyday problems for those kind of "problems". These guys are getting paid a boat load of cash to essentially play a child's game so no I don't feel sorry for them when they get traded.

As for Carter skipping out on the fan event, it's low. The fans in Columbus never did anything to him to deserve that type of action. They were excited to see a new top player on their team & he essentially told them to go **** themselves. I don't think it's very wise to bite the hand that feeds you, without the fans Carter & every other athlete wouldn't have such privileged lives.
Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from, and agree with most of what you said. We just have different opinions on certain things and that's fine with me.

And, yeah, players do know what they signed up for, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't work against it if they don't like certain parts of it. They have it going good, that's for sure, but that doesn't make them a puppet the public, the fans or the management can just throw around. I'm not saying I would do the same thing as he did, but if he doesn't like a fan event, I don't see it as low skipping it. I mean, it's nice to see players do these things, but if they don't like it, don't force it on them. I don't think the fans have any right to expect people to be there, unless they paid for it and it was advertised as such. But I don't know what the event in question was and what Carter's role there was supposed to be.

As for the quote in bold, though, why didn't you? You had a chance when you were young. These guys worked hard for this specific thing, and it was go big or go bust. They went big, most go bust.

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04-22-2014, 12:00 PM
  #270
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You're not supposed to think about advanced statistics. You're supposed to just accept them as fact and use them, in conjunction with a healthy dose on condescension, to belittle people on the internet.
You're not supposed to think about advanced statistics. You're supposed to just ignore them as fact and disregard them, in conjunction with a healthy dose on condescension, to belittle people on the internet.

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04-22-2014, 12:03 PM
  #271
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I'd like to point out that Meszaros has played in 14 of 21 games with Boston, and (more importantly) both of their playoff games to date.

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04-22-2014, 12:07 PM
  #272
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I'd like to point out that Meszaros has played in 14 of 21 games with Boston, and (more importantly) both of their playoff games to date.
Lookin good

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04-22-2014, 12:07 PM
  #273
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You're not supposed to think about advanced statistics. You're supposed to just ignore them as fact and disregard them, in conjunction with a healthy dose on condescension, to belittle people on the internet.
It goes both ways, but it leans way more to other side.

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04-22-2014, 12:17 PM
  #274
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I understand how everyone likes to use these stats but we all have to realize they are in their infancy stages at this point. I am not for or against the analytical side of the game but will say fans that think GM's are incompetent or don't know the game are just wrong. There are desperation moves that GM's make but we never really get the full story behind all the moves. Owners, scouts, and a lot of other people have a fair share of input into the hockey world that goes unnoticed, especially around here. Homer gets his fair share of hate on these boards but the man does know one thing, it's hockey. While we all wanted to blow the team up after the 1-7 start, Homer kept his wits about him and watched the team develop. They came together after the rough start and now look at us. He keeps this team competitive almost every year he has taken over and we are almost always on the inside when it comes to playoffs.

Corsi+Fenwick have their flaws and like Nonis said they are interesting but that's not how you build a team. NHL teams have much better resources than what player shoots the puck more while on the ice than the other(simply put of course). The zone starts and ends I believe are a much better start. Even they are flawed though because shifts usually will go back and forth probably 2 times while they are on the ice. They also help teams understand why some players are not living up to offensive stats(Couturier) because he is stuck in a defensive role. People also call corsi "possession" but I don't think it is. When a team keeps the puck on their stick and cycle the puck and keep the defensive players hemmed in that is puck possession. Players like Dats and Giroux excel at puck possession and they make their game off that.

Rick Nash is a good example of this. He has 13 shots on net, but 10 probably came from the point when he brought the puck in the zone. All easy shots for the goalie to see. Does that mean he is outplaying the others on the ice? Nash has not had a good series but leads them in shots. His play has been average at best where he has had one or two good shifts followed up by crap.

Corsi and Fenwick are interesting to the hockey world but GM's are more resourceful than these I believe. We of course have teams that will look and use these stats somewhat in their decisions but we have people around here that rely on these stats as their end all, which simply is wrong.

Hockey being a 5 player game is very hard to gauge when you take individual stats like those. It's not about one player on the ice at any given time but all 5.

I probably will get people who definitely disagree with this post lol
Sure, you may not be able to build a team with CORSI and such stats, but you can evaluate a team with stats like that and find problem areas. And those stats have indicated for some time that Toronto has some major flaws. They generally can't work all on their own, but they're fantastic for supplementing the eyeball test, which also shouldn't be trusted all on its own.

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04-22-2014, 12:20 PM
  #275
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Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from, and agree with most of what you said. We just have different opinions on certain things and that's fine with me.

And, yeah, players do know what they signed up for, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't work against it if they don't like certain parts of it. They have it going good, that's for sure, but that doesn't make them a puppet the public, the fans or the management can just throw around. I'm not saying I would do the same thing as he did, but if he doesn't like a fan event, I don't see it as low skipping it. I mean, it's nice to see players do these things, but if they don't like it, don't force it on them. I don't think the fans have any right to expect people to be there, unless they paid for it and it was advertised as such. But I don't know what the event in question was and what Carter's role there was supposed to be.

As for the quote in bold, though, why didn't you? You had a chance when you were young. These guys worked hard for this specific thing, and it was go big or go bust. They went big, most go bust.
For the record I don't necessarily have a problem with players wanting out of a situation however I do have a problem with players doing so in a public matter.

If Carter would have just acted like professional & let things get done behind the scenes I don't think many fans sans Blue Jackets fans would have been calling him out for the way things went down.

The event was like a team meet & great session type of thing with autographs & such. It was a team function setup by Columbus & not an outside source.

As for the last question obviously hard work is key but at the end of the day you either are talented or not & many of us fall short of that. Hard work can only get you so far.

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