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Miscellaneous NHL Talk XVI (Playoff Edition)

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Old
04-23-2014, 12:15 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
LA get old & beat up in a hurry, their backend isn't really anything to write home about not counting Doughty & Voynov. It's either old, slow, or not even good outside of those guys.

Their drafting really hasn't been that great now that they're not picking early anymore neither which probably doesn't help.

Of course Richards & Brown look like AHLers right now which doesn't help with a team that didn't a ton of offensive depth even at their peak.
Let's see if Hextall can advise Lombardi that it's time to trade Doughty.

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04-23-2014, 12:18 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
they have drafted well of late. its just that many of their young kids like Toffoli and Pearson aren't ready for playoff hockey. Wish ADK had a team like Manchester.
I like Toffoli but not so much Pearson. Forbort has been taking forever to crack the lineup. They gave up their best prospect in Fasching for a couple of seconds & a depth defensemen which didn't make no sense for a team with a not so strong prospect pool.

They even had mixed results when they were drafting high every year to be honest.

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04-23-2014, 12:22 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
LA get old & beat up in a hurry, their backend isn't really anything to write home about not counting Doughty & Voynov. It's either old, slow, or not even good outside of those guys.

Their drafting really hasn't been that great now that they're not picking early anymore neither which probably doesn't help.

Of course Richards & Brown look like AHLers right now which doesn't help with a team that didn't a ton of offensive depth even at their peak.
Quick's subpar season in the first year of a 10 year contract is also a concern.

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Old
04-23-2014, 12:32 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I like Toffoli but not so much Pearson. Forbort has been taking forever to crack the lineup. They gave up their best prospect in Fasching for a couple of seconds & a depth defensemen which didn't make no sense for a team with a not so strong prospect pool.

They even had mixed results when they were drafting high every year to be honest.
having seen both players a ton I like Toffoli better. he is going to be a stud. his hockey IQ is off the charts. I do like McNabb. But I do agree they will likely regret trading Fasching.
Fobert is a project. He has been better as the season has gone along but he is likely at least a year away from being a NHL player.

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04-23-2014, 12:39 PM
  #330
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Holmgren did not trade Richards because of the media. Our management team doesn't give two ***** about what Timmy p and clownchidi say. I don't know why that argument is still used.
It is a convenient non-sequitur meant distract from some of the other salient reasons..some of which Richards himself provided insight to.

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04-23-2014, 01:16 PM
  #331
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Dman, I just noticed Meszaros didn't play last night. He's at 2/3 playoff games so far.

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04-23-2014, 01:25 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
It is a convenient non-sequitur meant distract from some of the other salient reasons..some of which Richards himself provided insight to.
No, the salient reasons are that Homer dug the team into a hole and the only way to get out was via major trade. As it turned out, no other two players on the roster would have brought a return sufficient to fill the roster and begin re-stocking the prospect pool. Hartnell and Carle certainly wouldn't have netted enough.

I don't get why people insist on ignoring the glaring, obvious reasons to make a hockey move because Richards and Carter drank with Lupul in 2007.

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04-23-2014, 01:35 PM
  #333
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Wouldn't just trading Carter for Voracek and Couturier have been enough if it was just a hockey move?

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04-23-2014, 02:01 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Wouldn't just trading Carter for Voracek and Couturier have been enough if it was just a hockey move?
This debate keeps going in circles because of convenient revisionism that couches the trades as purely hockey moves when Richards himself intimated in an interview that the locker room was divided into "little groups" one of which he and Carter were a part of. Also Richards wasn't getting along with the coach...rightly or wrongly. The whole situation was beyond just some hockey business move. It really isn't that hard to infer..especially with Richards. Flyers actually wanted to keep Carter but Howson offered a King's ransom..or should I say a Blue Jackets ransom.

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04-23-2014, 02:01 PM
  #335
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Wouldn't just trading Carter for Voracek and Couturier have been enough if it was just a hockey move?
As I recall there were still holes on the roster. And at the time, Carter only returned one sure-fire roster player.

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04-23-2014, 02:03 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
This debate keeps going in circles because of convenient revisionism that couches the trades as purely hockey moves when Richards himself intimated in an interview that the locker room was divided into "little groups" one of which he and Carter were a part of. Also Richards wasn't getting along with the coach...rightly or wrongly. The whole situation was beyond just some hockey business move. It really isn't that hard to infer..especially with Richards. Flyers actually wanted to keep Carter but Howson offered a King's ransom..or should I say a Blue Jackets ransom.
Also intriguing is how certain individuals are hell bent on holding the two traded players responsible while ignoring the potential culpability of Pronger and Lavi.

We don't know what happened, so I stick with the obvious, immediately pressing reasons, instead of the guesswork.

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04-23-2014, 02:08 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Also intriguing is how certain individuals are hell bent on holding the two traded players responsible while ignoring the potential culpability of Pronger and Lavi.

We don't know what happened, so I stick with the obvious, immediately pressing reasons, instead of the guesswork.
I'm not ignoring those two x factors. I'm commenting on how the Y factors were shipped out of here..rightly or wrongly. I side with the former and I consider the trades to be BOTH for hockey reasons AND other extenuating circumstances. I'm not absolving anybody from fault...especially the two entitled brats.

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04-23-2014, 04:11 PM
  #338
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MacKinnon would be my first choice for the Calder obviously but I think I would have Trouba as my runner up followed by Palat.

He was averaging 22 & half minutes a night on a pretty deep blueline as a 19/20 year old.

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04-23-2014, 04:15 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
I'm not ignoring those two x factors. I'm commenting on how the Y factors were shipped out of here..rightly or wrongly. I side with the former and I consider the trades to be BOTH for hockey reasons AND other extenuating circumstances. I'm not absolving anybody from fault...especially the two entitled brats.
What may I ask did they do to deserve that title?

I really should just stay off the internet, this site in particular actually.

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Old
04-23-2014, 04:18 PM
  #340
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What may I ask did they do to deserve that title?

I really should just stay off the internet, this site in particular actually.
Carter I could see as "entitled" for his stint in Columbus, but Richards? I haven't the darndest clue.

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04-23-2014, 04:23 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Carter I could see as "entitled" for his stint in Columbus, but Richards? I haven't the darndest clue.
That's what I was thinking too.

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04-23-2014, 04:37 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Also intriguing is how certain individuals are hell bent on holding the two traded players responsible while ignoring the potential culpability of Pronger and Lavi.

We don't know what happened, so I stick with the obvious, immediately pressing reasons, instead of the guesswork.
God forbid individuals be held accountable for anything. It's just that moron Paul Holmgren plugging roster holes by trading two star players...

You seriously believe it's more likely that Holmgren, the gm of a team that has no problem spending money, traded Carter and Richards to plug holes in the bottom 6, rather than trading them because there were character/commitment/leadership issues?

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04-23-2014, 04:40 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
God forbid individuals be held accountable for anything. It's just that moron Paul Holmgren plugging roster holes by trading two star players...

You seriously believe it's more likely that Holmgren, the gm of a team that has no problem spending money, traded Carter and Richards to plug holes in the bottom 6, rather than trading them because there were character/commitment/leadership issues?
Simmonds, Voracek, B Schenn, 8th overall, 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder not to mention the cap space. How is that plugging holes in the bottom 6.

I'm not taking a side on this cause I don't feeling like arguing something when there is next to zero proof to support either side but don't just make **** up.

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04-23-2014, 04:43 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
God forbid individuals be held accountable for anything. It's just that moron Paul Holmgren plugging roster holes by trading two star players...

You seriously believe it's more likely that Holmgren, the gm of a team that has no problem spending money, traded Carter and Richards to plug holes in the bottom 6, rather than trading them because there were character/commitment/leadership issues?
Considering there were zero prospects to call up and zero cap space to fill the holes, and that every best case scenario we could figure out here involved moving two players at minimum to field a roster while fitting a new goalie...yes. I do. Because that's what it was going to take. I guess you've forgotten the situation the team was in at that point, but it was clear as day to everyone that major pieces of the core were gonna be going away.

It's also funny you should drop that "accountable" line. God forbid we hold Homer accountable for putting the team against the ledge like that, right?

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04-23-2014, 04:44 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Simmonds, Voracek, B Schenn, 8th overall, 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder not to mention the cap space. How is that plugging holes in the bottom 6.

I'm not taking a side on this cause I don't feeling like arguing something when there is next to zero proof to support either side but don't just make **** up.
That's what it turned into, I'm addressing the mindset leading to the decision to trade two star players, not the return.

IMO, believing Holmgren traded carter and Richards to fill out the roster/stock the prospect pool is ridiculous.

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04-23-2014, 04:47 PM
  #346
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That's what it turned into, I'm addressing the mindset leading to the decision to trade two star players, not the return.

IMO, believing Holmgren traded carter and Richards to fill out the roster/stock the prospect pool is ridiculous.
Your memory is short. Because in that offseason, it wasn't a matter of whether or not they needed to ship out major pieces, but which ones. We were wondering which combination of Carter, Timonen, Hartnell, Versteeg, Briere, Carle, and Coburn would be sent out and for what. It was already known Leino wouldn't be back because they couldn't afford his raise.

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04-23-2014, 04:50 PM
  #347
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I'm not taking a side on this cause I don't feeling like arguing something when there is next to zero proof to support either side but don't just make **** up.
Pretty much, in all honesty it's probably somewhere in the middle.

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04-23-2014, 04:55 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
This debate keeps going in circles because of convenient revisionism that couches the trades as purely hockey moves when Richards himself intimated in an interview that the locker room was divided into "little groups" one of which he and Carter were a part of. Also Richards wasn't getting along with the coach...rightly or wrongly. The whole situation was beyond just some hockey business move. It really isn't that hard to infer..especially with Richards. Flyers actually wanted to keep Carter but Howson offered a King's ransom..or should I say a Blue Jackets ransom.
Unless you have a source, I don't believe that for one second.

As soon as the Flyers were eliminated from the playoffs in 2011, there were rumours of Carter being shopped and Columbus being interested. In fact, I remember a thread being made in the trade section based on that rumour that was actually pretty close to the actual trade that happened (1st & Voracek for Carter).

It was the Richards trade that came out of nowhere because there were no rumours of him being shopped.

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04-23-2014, 04:58 PM
  #349
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Pretty much, in all honesty it's probably somewhere in the middle.
Yup, if it were just hockey reason's I could see one of them going but probably not both. If it were stemming from locker room issues then I doubt Holmgren would have been so visibly and audibly upset with the situation. I mean seriously, if they were being a bunch of d-bags as many on here suggest, why would Homer care so much when moving them?

It has to be a combo of the two, good hockey trade and to alleviate locker room issues (most likely with Lavi and Pronger IMO considering Richie and Hartnell and Giroux are all such good friends).

Edit: And now I'm talking out of my ass just like everyone else after I specifically said I wasn't gonna say anything.

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04-23-2014, 05:02 PM
  #350
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MacKinnon would be my first choice for the Calder obviously but I think I would have Trouba as my runner up followed by Palat.

He was averaging 22 & half minutes a night on a pretty deep blueline as a 19/20 year old.
Didn't they give that award to Hertl after his 4 goal game at the start of the season?

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