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Rumor: Spezza to Toronto for Kadri

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:07 PM
  #51
Sureves
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Originally Posted by Mike Martin View Post
The age of the player they are trading away or trading for always matters to GMs.
As does point production. Spezza put up 37% more points per game than Kadri.

Kadri is younger and less injury prone, but that isn't going to make up for a 37% point variance, sorry.

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04-20-2014, 12:09 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
You can't sit there and tell me a 30 year center who's only signed for one more year is worth more than a young center who's under team control for many years.
These posters motivated by homerism [mod] will see the pretend world they want to see regardless of the facts.


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Old
04-20-2014, 12:15 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
As does point production. Spezza put up 37% more points per game than Kadri.

Kadri is younger and less injury prone, but that isn't going to make up for a 37% point variance, sorry.
Age makes up for a lot of it, you underestimate the value of youth and potential. It doesn't matter that Kadri isn't matching Spezza's point production right now, what matters to a rebuilding team is potential and Kadri has that. In trading for potential the Senators could imagine that Kadri will have more points per season two or three years from now than Spezza had this season. That's how real GMs think.

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04-20-2014, 12:17 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
As does point production. Spezza put up 37% more points per game than Kadri.

Kadri is younger and less injury prone, but that isn't going to make up for a 37% point variance, sorry.
Yes, it does.

I asked someone close to Spezza last year if he would come home. The impression I got was that Jason was very loyal to the Senators as long as he was under contract with them but he wants to play close to Mississauga and his family. He has a very big Italian family that seems to want him to finish his career in Toronto.

I wouldn't trade for him and would rather create cap room to sign him once his deal is done with the Sens.

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:18 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Mike Martin View Post
Age makes up for a lot of it, you underestimate the value of youth and potential. It doesn't matter that Kadri isn't matching Spezza's point production right now, what matters to a rebuilding team is potential and Kadri has that. In trading for potential the Senators could imagine that Kadri will have more points per season two or three years from now than Spezza had this season. That's how real GMs think.
You seem to be awfully condescending for an internet messageboard poster who is not employed by any hockey organization.

Fact is Spezza has 37% more points per game than Kadri. Teams value points, and I'm willing to bet you that if Spezza is traded at the deadline because the Sens are out of the playoff picture, he will return a very similar player to Kadri as a centerpiece with other smaller pieces on the side.

A team like St. Louis will pay big for a guy of Spezza's caliber - if Toronto doesn't see Spezza as a fit for their team, that's fine, but that doesn't mean Kadri has more value than Spezza.

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04-20-2014, 12:20 PM
  #56
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Won't happen. They won't deal him to Toronto, and Toronto won't want to move guys like Kadri/Gardiner to Ottawa either.

If Spezza wants to be a Leaf he'll have his agent contact them when he's a UFA. If not, that's fine.

Spezza, is not the player the Leafs need. Age is a factor. This team is 4-5 years away from being a legit contender, at which point guys like Kadri/Gardiner in their prime are worth more than a 35/36 year old Spezza declining.

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:22 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
This would be a typical Toronto move. If Spezza loves the leafs so much, just sign him as a free agent in a year.
So true. Bad move by Nonnis if it happens. If the Leafs were contenders I'd be fine with it but even with Spezza this team will still be playing for 6th-10th.

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04-20-2014, 12:22 PM
  #58
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A 23 year old kadri who put up 20 goals in his first real full nhl season is much more valuable then spezza at the tail end of his career

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04-20-2014, 12:22 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Melnyks Mirage View Post

How is an RFA centre already producing 50 points and likely producing 50-70 points AND playing with an edge a bad trade? Spezza is on the decline, perenially injured and although PPG is a negative possession player.

Murray would be thanking (and laughing at) Nonis for the rest of his life if this happened. Think of it this way, we'd win every game vs. the Leafs due to his lack of defensive acumen alone. If you want Gunnarsson AND Finn on top then we need to send them either Ceci or something of value...
You do realize were basically giving our rival team the number 1 line in the league. After a rough first half spezza's production returned to normal and he was nearly a ppg. Suggesting kadri will be a 70 point player is laughable. Kadri is also a negative possession player and would probably never even get close to the production spezza would put up with jvr and kessel.

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04-20-2014, 12:25 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bardown warrior View Post
A 23 year old kadri who put up 20 goals in his first real full nhl season is much more valuable then spezza at the tail end of his career
LOL Spezza will score more in the next 10 years than Kadri. I can almost guarantee that.

That said, I'd be pretty pissed if we dealt Spezza for Kadri.

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04-20-2014, 12:29 PM
  #61
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Utter nonsense, none of that is real in GM thought. You don't get 3 players for Spezza when Kadri himself had 50 points this season and has great potential. By the way, the trade is also in the same division from the Leafs point of view so why should they give you more? Why don't you give them more? What's the difference?
Lets think of it this way. Trading Spezza to the leafs is basically giving them the number 1 line in hockey. Whats kadri's potential? Idk about you but to me he seems like a 20-25 goals 50- 60 point center. Well for the next 5 years at least i would see spezza as being a 30 goal 80-90 point center playing with jvr and kessel.

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04-20-2014, 12:29 PM
  #62
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If he wants to come id go the UFA route and keep assets for defenders. If Kadri is being moved it better be for young defence help with similar potential to Kadri.

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:32 PM
  #63
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What a stupid proposal

Both teams need defensive help, this does nothing to improve them

Not only that but it would be a fleecing of epic proportions: a ppg centre for Kadri is a bad trade for Ottawa

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04-20-2014, 12:32 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Vesa Awesaka View Post
Lets think of it this way. Trading Spezza to the leafs is basically giving them the number 1 line in hockey. Whats kadri's potential? Idk about you but to me he seems like a 20-25 goals 50- 60 point center. Well for the next 5 years at least i would see spezza as being a 30 goal 80-90 point center playing with jvr and kessel.
How is Kadri's potential a 50-60 point center when he already has hit 50 in his first full season in the NHL. Your basically saying you think Kadri has peeked and won't get any better?

And I don't see a 34 or 35 year old Spezza putting up 30 goals and 80 points.

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04-20-2014, 12:33 PM
  #65
Mike Martin
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
You seem to be awfully condescending for an internet messageboard poster who is not employed by any hockey organization.
You seem awfully homeristic for someone who pretends to think like a real GM. Real GMs value youth and potential. Kadri is already racking up 50 point seasons at age 23, his youth matters to real GMs. You can't handle the high value that Kadri's young age brings to the table because that fact doesn't serve your homer agenda of thinking your team's players are so super valuable that they aren't subjected to legitimate factors every GM considers. Spezza isn't 23, do you understand? That gives Kadri an advantage over him in an important category and it is an advantage you are refusing to acknowledge. If Kadri was 30 like Spezza with fewer points per season than him you'd have a better case but that's not how it is.

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04-20-2014, 12:36 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Nazemlupul View Post
How is Kadri's potential a 50-60 point center when he already has hit 50 in his first full season in the NHL. Your basically saying you think Kadri has peeked and won't get any better?

And I don't see a 34 or 35 year old Spezza putting up 30 goals and 80 points.
In so many of these trade scenarios the poster who is in love with the older player refuses to admit that youth and potential matters at all when it is in fact the major basis of many NHL trades.

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:38 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Mike Martin View Post
In so many of these trade scenarios the poster who is in love with the older player refuses to admit that youth and potential matters at all when it is in fact the major basis of many NHL trades.
What is kadri's potential?
Or better yet whats kadri's potential for the next 5 years?

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:41 PM
  #68
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So, Vanek, who is a worst hockey player than Jason Spezza got back Moulson+1st.
Do you really think Ottawa would do Kadri for him? I'd honestly only consider Kadri+Gardiner+1st/2nd. You aren't going to get an elite center for a decent 2nd line C. Think about what it would take to land Eric Staal, Carolina would laugh at Toronto if they offered Kadri. Anyway Spezza has said it before, he wants to be part of the team. Fans just blame him for everything, it's dumb and annoying. He's not going to Toronto, you really think Ottawa is that far from Toronto? He's close to home anyway.

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:43 PM
  #69
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JFJ would make a trade like this.

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:45 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesa Awesaka View Post
What is kadri's potential?
Or better yet whats kadri's potential for the next 5 years?
He just hit 50 pts in his first full season, I don't think its unreasonable to think he can be a perennial 60-70 pt player while being playing a pest game. Something like that, even though right now its just potential, has greater value than a soon to be UFA Spezza.

There is no guarantee Spezza would even have any chemsitry with JVR and Kessel, more truthfully, we would keep Bozak with them and play Spezza with Lupul and Clarkson/somebody. Were n ot paying you more because Spezza MAY mesh with our number one line lol.

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04-20-2014, 12:46 PM
  #71
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phaneuf+kadri for spezza++ would be good for both teams, then if TO can get rid of Kessel they might make the playoffs

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04-20-2014, 12:48 PM
  #72
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Straight up, the Leafs would be out of their minds not to take Spezza for Kadri. Spezza is a proven #1 center. Kadri is solid, but not great defensively and I'm still not sold on him being a legit second line center. Spezza is not that old, so that argument is invalid. If it's true that Jason wants to be here, I see no reason why he wouldn't resign with the Leafs after the season.

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04-20-2014, 12:48 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
As does point production. Spezza put up 37% more points per game than Kadri.

Kadri is younger and less injury prone, but that isn't going to make up for a 37% point variance, sorry.
Last two seasons:

Jason Spezza
80GP - 25G - 46A - 71 PTS (0.89 pt/game)

Nazem Kadri
126GP - 38G - 56A - 94 PTS (0.75 pt/game)

The difference is 0.14 pts per game between the two players and in a full 82 game season that equates to about 12 more points.

The only problem with Spezza is the fact he has played only one full season and two 80 game seasons his entire NHL career. That extra 0.14 point production will be meaningless if he continues to miss games.

The fact Spezza missed almost the entire shortened season two years ago and missed another seven games after sitting out most of the previous year goes to show his health is inconsistent.

If Leafs are smart they don't trade for Spezza and his $7 million contract. In fact, the Maple Leafs cannot afford Spezza with the other bloated contracts on the roster like Clarkson, Phaneuf and Lupul.

Having both Lupul and Spezza on the same team is a recipe for disaster. Spezza will want more money in his next retirement contract and will not sign for a discount for his new team, so it doesn't make sense to trade for him on a team that needs more work especially on defense.

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:48 PM
  #74
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I would love Spezza in a leaf uniform, just not at the expense of Kadri. Spezza would be able to help Kadri grow if anything.

Spezza
Bozak
Kadri
McClement

Get it done, but in another way.

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Old
04-20-2014, 12:49 PM
  #75
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Ottawa's fans are still mad about Kadri's hit on Ceci and this will mean a discussion about Kadri will go no where but pointless arguing.

Spezza to the Leafs would not be the right next step and trading one of our few homegrown talent away would be foolish.


Last edited by I am Canadian: 04-20-2014 at 02:19 PM.
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