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Would you trade one of our top goalie prospects

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08-22-2005, 04:35 PM
  #1
RANGERDIEHARD
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Would you trade one of our top goalie prospects

All in all I am pretty happy with the future of this team. The one ingredient that we so desperately need can be had in the first two picks of next years' entry draft. Everyone is drooling over Phil Kessel or Michael Frolik as Rangers but the realistic odds of us finishing that low are slim. The 05' - 06' Rangers are probably not good enough to make the playoffs but also not bad enough to land us a superstar in next years' draft - we are probably looking at the worst possible scenario, surprise, surprise.
There is one way that we may be able to land one of those players and that is offering our 1st rounder (probably 6th - 10th) and one of either Montoya or Lundqvuist for a 1st or 2nd overall pick and maybe a second round pick back to us.

The question is do you trade one of these guys if you have a chance to get either Kessel or Frolik and if you are willing to trade one of them then which one do you trade????

I'll answer by saying that I would make this deal; adding Kessel or Frolik will provide this team with a dynamically skilled prospect who has the potential to be a superstar in the NHL for many years. I would hate to choose between one of our goalie prospects but if given the choice I would trade Montoya. Lundqvuist has shown that he can play at a high level with pros where Montoya has had a so - so year in college. This move leaves the future of the Rangers looking like this:

G -Lundvuist
G-Holt
D-Tyutin
D-Staal
D-Kondratiev
D-Baranka
D-Lifton
D-Pock
D-Sauer
F-Kessel/Frolik
F-Immonen
F-Jessiman
F-Korpikoski
F-Dawes
F-Prucha
F-Balej
F-Graham
F-Murray
F-Olver

I like it!

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08-22-2005, 05:01 PM
  #2
eco's bones
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You couldn't make that kind of a deal until you are well into the season to figure out who you're going to trade with. By that time the teams that look like the best bets are probably going to want a lot. Who do you think are going to be the bottom 5?

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08-22-2005, 05:29 PM
  #3
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......

First you forgot Jake Taylor on that depth chart, also maybe Guenin or Potter.

Also, if the Rangers only get 6-10 in next year's draft, I'd try and trade Montoya, 2nd rounder, and our 3rd rounder for a one of the top 3 picks. I think it could be done. Maybe you add in a couple low level prospects. But even so I'm not too sold on trading Montoya yet. I certainely dont wanna trade Lundqvist by any means because he looks like the real deal.

Maybe if we get a Havlat or Spezza for Montoya then yes.

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08-22-2005, 05:45 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
There is one way that we may be able to land one of those players and that is offering our 1st rounder (probably 6th - 10th) and one of either Montoya or Lundqvuist for a 1st or 2nd overall pick and maybe a second round pick back to us.
So you are proposing Lundqvist/Montoya and a 1st (say 10th overall by your projection) for #1/#2 overall and a 2nd? We make that trade in a second. I'm not even sure if this trade is realistic if we send the other team the 2nd, let alone getting the additional draft pick back.

I also think that this team will do surprisingly well this season. Call it a hunch, but I honestly would not count the playoffs out, I can see us winning a bunch of high scoring games.

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08-22-2005, 06:10 PM
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An intriging argument, but i think its way too early to tell. For example, Dan BLackburn. I really thought he was gonna be the rangers future. Anything can happen to your players, but messing around and trading young goalie prospects, especially highly touted ones, you have to be really sure what youre trading and more importantly what your getting in return.

If i had a choice at this very moment, it would be Montoya.

Its funny- everyone i talk to kinda has a weird feeling about him. I seldom hear anyone going gaga over this kid. Something about him though - its almost like you think of him in 2 lights. Either hes going to be a pressure choker and stink up the place... or maybe, just maybe a spectacular goaltender. Of course its hard to tell at this point, but dont you feel that way? I really dont know what to expect from him, but theres something lurking there either way.

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08-22-2005, 06:18 PM
  #6
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There are more prospects that were left off the list - the ones I listed are the ones that I feel have the best potential of making the big club in the future. I hope big Jake pans out, not so sure if he is better than Lifton or the other prospects listed.

As for the bottom 5 this year, here is my prediction:

26th Minnesota Wild
27th Buffalo Sabres
28th Carolina Hurricanes
29th Florida Panthers
30th Washington Capitals

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08-22-2005, 06:30 PM
  #7
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No!!!

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Old
08-22-2005, 06:36 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
There are more prospects that were left off the list - the ones I listed are the ones that I feel have the best potential of making the big club in the future. I hope big Jake pans out, not so sure if he is better than Lifton or the other prospects listed.

As for the bottom 5 this year, here is my prediction:

26th Minnesota Wild
27th Buffalo Sabres
28th Carolina Hurricanes
29th Florida Panthers
30th Washington Capitals
That's your opinion, huh?

Since when do the Rangers have goalies as good as either Luongo or Kolzig, d-men as solid as Witt, Numinen or McKee, or coaches as good as Keenan or Lemaire. The only consistent offense this team will derive is from Jagr and his linemates, have the team will be learning on the fly, and this team's likely top defensive pairing is Poti-Malik. This team won't get anywhere near a playoff spot, and should among the bottom five in the league all year.

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08-22-2005, 06:44 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
That's your opinion, huh?

Since when do the Rangers have goalies as good as either Luongo or Kolzig, d-men as solid as Witt, Numinen or McKee, or coaches as good as Keenan or Lemaire. The only consistent offense this team will derive is from Jagr and his linemates, have the team will be learning on the fly, and this team's likely top defensive pairing is Poti-Malik. This team won't get anywhere near a playoff spot, and should among the bottom five in the league all year.
we'll see

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Old
08-22-2005, 08:52 PM
  #10
RANGERDIEHARD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
That's your opinion, huh?

Since when do the Rangers have goalies as good as either Luongo or Kolzig, d-men as solid as Witt, Numinen or McKee, or coaches as good as Keenan or Lemaire. The only consistent offense this team will derive is from Jagr and his linemates, have the team will be learning on the fly, and this team's likely top defensive pairing is Poti-Malik. This team won't get anywhere near a playoff spot, and should among the bottom five in the league all year.

The Caps finished dead last 2 years ago and they had Kolzig and Witt on the team, not to mention Gonchar and Jagr for the good part of the year. Also Luongo has played for the Panthers for years now - and they have done nothing. You talk about the lack of offensive output that can be expected from the Rangers this year - have you seen the forwards on the teams that I listed?

Having said all this it is just an opinion...and I have the Rangers better than those teams, but still in the bottom third of the NHL.

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08-22-2005, 10:05 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synergy27
I also think that this team will do surprisingly well this season. Call it a hunch, but I honestly would not count the playoffs out, I can see us winning a bunch of high scoring games.
I have that hunch too. We may not have as much skill as other teams, but with young players showing that they deserve their roster spot, they will out hustle the other team.

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08-22-2005, 10:15 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
There is one way that we may be able to land one of those players and that is offering our 1st rounder (probably 6th - 10th) and one of either Montoya or Lundqvuist for a 1st or 2nd overall pick and maybe a second round pick back to us.
You will have to see if the Flyers like those players because, IMO, Clarke has managed himself into a run at Kessel.

Here's what he has to offer:
His own 1st rounder
4 second rounders
A young goalie (Esche or Nittymaki)
A young forward (Gagne, Richards, Carter)
Handzus (Provided he's not traded this season.)

Mark my words, Clarke will be making a HUGE splash at next year's draft.

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Old
08-22-2005, 10:35 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
The Caps finished dead last 2 years ago and they had Kolzig and Witt on the team, not to mention Gonchar and Jagr for the good part of the year. Also Luongo has played for the Panthers for years now - and they have done nothing. You talk about the lack of offensive output that can be expected from the Rangers this year - have you seen the forwards on the teams that I listed?

Having said all this it is just an opinion...and I have the Rangers better than those teams, but still in the bottom third of the NHL.
And the Rangers had a bunch of vets for a longer period, and went downhill very fast. Plus, everyone of those other teams plays better defense. This organization still has to learn how to do such a thing. Don't get me wrong, I am fully in favor of this rebuild. But, I have no illusions - this could be a very painful year. We don't know which players are going to emerge. For all we know, we could look back and see maybe one player who actually becomes a part of the future Ranger core. Yes, we'll see effort from kids wanting to make it. But, that hardly means this team will get near where some people are hoping. As for the forwards on some of those teams...let's see...Eric Staal? Nathan Horton? Marian Gaborik? Alexander Semin (not to mention Ovechkin?) Does this organization have a stud like any one of those players ready at the NHL level? Oh, I forgot Ollie Jokinen or Eric Cole...nope don't see a young forward ready at that level on the Rangers. Nope, this team requires a healthy and motivated Jagr to score goals. Lundmark? Balej? Prucha? Immonen? All of them unproven and not near the level of development of the aforementioned young forwards.

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Old
08-22-2005, 10:51 PM
  #14
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If one really runs away with the goalie position i'd consider it but so many things can change when it comes to goalies and there are no gurantees.

In 1996 the caps looked set in goal with Jim Carey and you'd have thought Kolzig was trade bait.

Two years later Carey was just about out of the NHL and Kolzig was developing his Vezina form.

The flip side you have the Sabres who overplayed their goalie hand a few years back.

Happy medium is the ideal choice. But that isn't now and is a year away at the earliest.

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Old
08-22-2005, 11:35 PM
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They can't do it yet till they know what they got. In a year, things could change. Obviously, they don't want to overplay their hand a la Buffalo like Edge pointed out.

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08-22-2005, 11:55 PM
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I wouldn't trade a top goalie prospect at this point in time. Let's see what happens during the season, and how they play.

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Old
08-23-2005, 09:05 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
That's your opinion, huh?

Since when do the Rangers have goalies as good as either Luongo or Kolzig, d-men as solid as Witt, Numinen or McKee, or coaches as good as Keenan or Lemaire. The only consistent offense this team will derive is from Jagr and his linemates, have the team will be learning on the fly, and this team's likely top defensive pairing is Poti-Malik. This team won't get anywhere near a playoff spot, and should among the bottom five in the league all year.
From your lips to gods ears 'cause we need a prospect with superstar potential

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08-23-2005, 09:10 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
All in all I am pretty happy with the future of this team. The one ingredient that we so desperately need can be had in the first two picks of next years' entry draft. Everyone is drooling over Phil Kessel or Michael Frolik as Rangers but the realistic odds of us finishing that low are slim. The 05' - 06' Rangers are probably not good enough to make the playoffs but also not bad enough to land us a superstar in next years' draft
Don't kid yourself, this team is going to be terrible, and a top-5 pick is highly likely. I'd say top-3 is very likely.

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08-23-2005, 11:25 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
There are more prospects that were left off the list - the ones I listed are the ones that I feel have the best potential of making the big club in the future. I hope big Jake pans out, not so sure if he is better than Lifton or the other prospects listed.

As for the bottom 5 this year, here is my prediction:

26th Minnesota Wild
27th Buffalo Sabres
28th Carolina Hurricanes
29th Florida Panthers
30th Washington Capitals
Of these teams we are with Carolina and Washington. The rest should be way above us. I don't know Minnesota all that well but IMO Buffalo will make a serious run at the playoffs. I also think we will be at least somewhere around the bottom 5. And here there's another decision whether picking say in the 4 to 6 range is worth getting rid of Montoya to move up to 1 or 2.
Back to our D. I haven't seen much of Malik since he went west but remembering him in Carolina he was okay but nothing special and not mean. Our defense looks soft and we're going to have a number of rookies and young players who haven't really established themselves. We're not getting anywhere near the playoffs.

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08-23-2005, 12:25 PM
  #20
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I would trade either goalie prospect for a shot at drafting Kessel. Goaltending has been and is the most overrated position in the sport, and that extends all the way down to the prospect level. This team thirsts for a face, a leader, a hi-octane scorer that the goaltender, no matter how good he is, cannot quench.

If it came down to it, I would much rather have the leagues top 3 skater than top 3 goaltender. Same for top prospects.

With that said, I do beleive we will be bad enough to be within striking distance of the 1st pick via lottery.

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08-23-2005, 12:46 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by dakose
I would trade either goalie prospect for a shot at drafting Kessel. Goaltending has been and is the most overrated position in the sport, and that extends all the way down to the prospect level. This team thirsts for a face, a leader, a hi-octane scorer that the goaltender, no matter how good he is, cannot quench.

If it came down to it, I would much rather have the leagues top 3 skater than top 3 goaltender. Same for top prospects.

With that said, I do beleive we will be bad enough to be within striking distance of the 1st pick via lottery.
The thing is deciding whether a Frolik or a Mueller or another player who makes a big splash this year (there is always somebody shooting up) isn't close enough or even as liable to be as good as Kessell. We're not going to have an idea for some time about that nor do we have any real certainty (besides with our own team) what team is going to be the worst of the worst. And what if it's us? Then in that case Bobby Clarke can take whatever he's packaging and do you know what.

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08-23-2005, 02:41 PM
  #22
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Its funny- everyone i talk to kinda has a weird feeling about him. I seldom hear anyone going gaga over this kid. Something about him though - its almost like you think of him in 2 lights. Either hes going to be a pressure choker and stink up the place... or maybe, just maybe a spectacular goaltender. Of course its hard to tell at this point, but dont you feel that way? I really dont know what to expect from him, but theres something lurking there either way.
it's because he didn't do great after his draft year and everyone jumped off the bandwagon, irregardless of the actual skill he has. personally, from watching him play, I think he's an extremely talented player who could turn out to be a great goalie...his problems last year stemmed from being unfocused mentally IMO, not from any skill deficiency. and as of right now, last year was an aberration in his career, not the norm. I think he'll bounce back and do fine. people also ignore the fact that he played quite well in the NCAA playoffs once he got back on track...he has the upside to be a great goaltender

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08-23-2005, 05:07 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Levitate
it's because he didn't do great after his draft year and everyone jumped off the bandwagon, irregardless of the actual skill he has. personally, from watching him play, I think he's an extremely talented player who could turn out to be a great goalie...his problems last year stemmed from being unfocused mentally IMO, not from any skill deficiency. and as of right now, last year was an aberration in his career, not the norm. I think he'll bounce back and do fine. people also ignore the fact that he played quite well in the NCAA playoffs once he got back on track...he has the upside to be a great goaltender

Well thats not good if Montoya is having problems focusing with Michigan, what kind of problems focusing will he have playing in the toughest media market in the U.S.?

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08-23-2005, 06:04 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by dedalus
You will have to see if the Flyers like those players because, IMO, Clarke has managed himself into a run at Kessel.

Here's what he has to offer:
His own 1st rounder
4 second rounders
A young goalie (Esche or Nittymaki)
A young forward (Gagne, Richards, Carter)
Handzus (Provided he's not traded this season.)

Mark my words, Clarke will be making a HUGE splash at next year's draft.
I'v been thinking that myself, Clarke doing something huge. The one thing though, neither Kessel or Frolik (the 2 guys right now who seem to be 1-2) seems like Clarke like players. Obviously kessel is a dynamo and Frolik is no sloutch, but I could just see him aiming at one of the bigger, more physical centers that will go early.

Then again in the "new" NHL you never know...

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08-23-2005, 06:06 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
Well thats not good if Montoya is having problems focusing with Michigan, what kind of problems focusing will he have playing in the toughest media market in the U.S.?
From what I've read or heard, his focus problems at Michigan were more from not feeling challenged as opposed to just being lazy or not caring.

I think he'll be fine in NY. Besides, who covers the Rangers anyway?

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