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A sobering look on the poor in America

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Old
04-24-2014, 09:37 AM
  #76
Lethargic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
Throwing money without an actual plan does not work. I would definitely say that.
Is there a plan under welfare?

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04-24-2014, 10:49 AM
  #77
PredsV82
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Originally Posted by Metro Misfits View Post
Is there a plan under welfare?
of course

1. give people just enough money for subsistence

2. tell them that if they ever vote republican someone will take the money away.

3. rinse

4. repeat

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04-24-2014, 10:56 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
of course

1. give people just enough money for subsistence

2. tell them that if they ever vote republican someone will take the money away.

3. rinse

4. repeat
I voted Republican when I turned 18 and then my money went away.

My God, he's right.

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Old
04-24-2014, 10:58 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
of course

1. give people just enough money for subsistence

2. tell them that if they ever vote republican someone will take the money away.

3. rinse

4. repeat
Oops.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...mp-growth.html

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Old
04-24-2014, 10:59 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
No wonder the Democrats keep winning the election. Look at all those people they're taking money away from.

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04-24-2014, 11:09 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
No wonder the Democrats keep winning the election. Look at all those people they're taking money away from.
Im not saying that the people listen, Im just saying thats what the plan is...(especially in the elections involving Obama... remember, they are poor but they are also racist)

The seniors tend to respond better to this plan.

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04-24-2014, 11:14 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Im not saying that the people listen, Im just saying thats what the plan is...

The seniors tend to respond better to this plan.
Well, my question is two-fold, then:

1) Aren't they still better off making "just enough to maintain subsistence" than making not enough to maintain subsistence?

2) Is there any evidence to suggest they're wrong about step 2? Ie: that Republicans won't take their money (ie: try to cut welfare) away?

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04-24-2014, 11:15 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Im not saying that the people listen, Im just saying thats what the plan is...(especially in the elections involving Obama... remember, they are poor but they are also racist)

The seniors tend to respond better to this plan.
Remind me which Republicans trying to "gut Medicare" to pay for Obamacare? Or which was the only demographic Obama lost in 2008? And they still hated him again in 2012.

Turns out saying "the other guys are going to take away something you like" is pretty effective no matter who's doing it.

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Old
04-24-2014, 11:22 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Im not saying that the people listen, Im just saying thats what the plan is...(especially in the elections involving Obama... remember, they are poor but they are also racist)

The seniors tend to respond better to this plan.
"The seniors" vote majority Republican, so apparently not.

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Old
04-24-2014, 01:03 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
Well, my question is two-fold, then:

1) Aren't they still better off making "just enough to maintain subsistence" than making not enough to maintain subsistence?

2) Is there any evidence to suggest they're wrong about step 2? Ie: that Republicans won't take their money (ie: try to cut welfare) away?
Bill Clinton signed the last major welfare reform.

The debate on whether giving poor people a bare subsistence saves them from starvation/homelessness/destitution or condemns them to an eternal marginal existence by making it more risky to try to move up the ladder is the eternal question among progressives and conservatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
Remind me which Republicans trying to "gut Medicare" to pay for Obamacare? Or which was the only demographic Obama lost in 2008? And they still hated him again in 2012.

Turns out saying "the other guys are going to take away something you like" is pretty effective no matter who's doing it.
who ran the ad with grandma being pushed over the cliff by Paul Ryan? Again, Im not saying it necessarily results in the electorate voting the way they do, Im just saying thats the strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
"The seniors" vote majority Republican, so apparently not.
just because there was a majority doesnt mean the appeal wasnt effective. the margin definitely could have been wider

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04-24-2014, 01:09 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82
who ran the ad with grandma being pushed over the cliff by Paul Ryan? Again, Im not saying it necessarily results in the electorate voting the way they do, Im just saying thats the strategy
Who came up with the plan to voucherize Medicare? Oh yeah, Paul the Fraud Ryan. So Paul Ryan should be able to periodically come up with plans to privatize major social programs, the Republicans should be able to approve those plans via a Congressional vote, but if the Democrats respond at election time, it constitutes a "strategy" to buy votes. Gotcha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
just because there was a majority doesnt mean the appeal wasnt effective. the margin definitely could have been wider
How long-term is this appeal, anyway? The Democrats introduced Social Security in the 1930s against strident Republican opposition. The Democrats introduced Medicare in the 60s against strident Republican opposition. The Republicans still periodically attempt to privatize both programs. Maybe the Democrats embrace these programs because they believe in them? Maybe not everything is a cynical ploy to bribe voters?

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04-24-2014, 01:11 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
who ran the ad with grandma being pushed over the cliff by Paul Ryan? Again, Im not saying it necessarily results in the electorate voting the way they do, Im just saying thats the strategy
And it's a strategy that's used by every party in every democratic system, and always will be.

Politicians always rely on wedge issues and bogeymen. Those are the things that get people off the couch and into the voting booth. Saying "the other guy wants to take away your stuff" will always be a great way to make a bogeyman. Republicans are just as happy to use it against Democrats as Democrats are to use it against Republicans.

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04-24-2014, 01:18 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Kind of like how a lot of the "47 percent" that Romney was talking about were actually not paying income taxes due to generous stipulations in the Earned Income Tax Credit from Presidents Reagan and GW Bush.

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04-24-2014, 01:22 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Kind of like how a lot of the "47 percent" that Romney was talking about were actually not paying income taxes due to generous stipulations in the Earned Income Tax Credit from Presidents Reagan and GW Bush.
They must have really hated the working poor.

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04-24-2014, 01:24 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
And it's a strategy that's used by every party in every democratic system, and always will be.

Politicians always rely on wedge issues and bogeymen. Those are the things that get people off the couch and into the voting booth. Saying "the other guy wants to take away your stuff" will always be a great way to make a bogeyman. Republicans are just as happy to use it against Democrats as Democrats are to use it against Republicans.
I have a great idea for Republicans who don't want to be burned by ads like the push-grandma-off-the-cliff ad: quit trying to privatize Medicare and Social Security! Their own base doesn't want that. Nobody wants it except jagoffs like Paul Ryan. But like a bunch of buffoons they not only let Paul Ryan present his brilliant plan on prime time TV, they actually all voted in favor of it! And then whined about the ads the Democrats ran in response, as if they were the victims rather than the a-holes who were trying to enrich themselves and their donors at the expense of seniors.

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04-24-2014, 01:26 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
I have a great idea for Republicans who don't want to be burned by ads like the push-grandma-off-the-cliff ad: quit trying to privatize Medicare and Social Security! Their own base doesn't want that. Nobody wants it except jagoffs like Paul Ryan. But like a bunch of buffoons they not only let Paul Ryan present his brilliant plan on prime time TV, they actually all voted in favor of it! And then whined about the ads the Democrats ran in response, as if they were the victims rather than the a-holes who were trying to enrich themselves and their donors at the expense of seniors.
Best description of Paul Ryan I have ever heard:

Paul Ryan is what dumb people think an intelligent person should sound like.

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Old
04-24-2014, 01:51 PM
  #92
Ilkka Sinisalo
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Originally said by Paul Krugman about Newt Gingrich, and it was equally accurate.

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04-24-2014, 01:58 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Originally said by Paul Krugman about Newt Gingrich, and it was equally accurate.
Well, now Metro hates it.

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04-24-2014, 02:18 PM
  #94
Lethargic
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Even slow clocks are right once a day.

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Old
04-24-2014, 02:29 PM
  #95
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Newt Gingrich is a whole lot more intelligent than Paul Ryan.

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04-24-2014, 02:31 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Metro Misfits View Post
Even slow clocks are right once a day.
That is not necessarily true.

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04-24-2014, 02:34 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
That is not necessarily true.
It's not ever true, for that matter; it's debatable whether a clock being 12 hours slow counts as being slow.

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Old
04-24-2014, 02:59 PM
  #98
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Mixed up the quote, It's every 2 years.

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04-24-2014, 03:01 PM
  #99
Ilkka Sinisalo
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How about we just stick with the more commonly used idiom, "A broken clock is right twice a day."

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04-24-2014, 03:04 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
How about we just stick with the more commonly used idiom, "A broken clock is right twice a day."
His idiom is okay. It's six of one, a dozen of the other anyway.

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