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Michel Therrien

View Poll Results: Rate Michel Therrien
Good 157 49.37%
Average 119 37.42%
Bad 42 13.21%
Voters: 318. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-23-2014, 06:00 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Rapala View Post
The Team did not play like crap witness 100 pts.
The Team did not play like all hands were on deck with the style of play MT was demanding.
We are constantly hearing about "coaches systems" it's not a mythical term.
The best system whatever style it employs is the one the players "buy into"
I was quoting someone else's view on how the team played over 82 games

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04-23-2014, 06:02 PM
  #127
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Lets say I was born in 1967 and yes Iv seen many of Lafleurs games or listened on radio-canada 96.5.I try to express factual info not rumours so in detailing Lafleur career on and off I think I know the real stories.Parents use to have french newspapers ordered from Quebec-Lets say Im a bit of a sports nut but I like to say their are 2 versions of a story.Lets say Iv got a great amout of respect for both including Bowman-But the truth about Scotty was he was never liked as a person but most respected him.Go th newspaper archieves and read early 1980s story about Bowman forcing Martin to play despite having serious injuries-player was Richard Martin who was traded to LA-Many stories about Bowman but somehow he is treated as a God.Hey despite me writing this Im a big Scotty Bowman fan but I know he aint know Mother Teresa

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04-23-2014, 06:04 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
They'd be in running for the presidents trophy, however, if you listened to me, rather than try to play gotchya and frame this discussion around what you want to hear, I said that the point totals in the regular season are irrelevant to me, strong play is what matters to me.
I'm not trying to play anything or reading anything that's not there. I'm just trying to get your assessment of what this roster could realistically achieve over 82 games in relation to what they did achieve and your opinion of how much MT contributed or didn't contribute to it

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04-23-2014, 06:10 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by geisha78 View Post
Is it surprising to you that there are people on this forum that are 45 years old and over? The guy isn't talking about Howie Morenz. The mid 70's and eRly 80's weren't all that long ago.
First off, I'm not surprised there are people 45 & older. Secondly, the Bowman-Lafleur years were not in the early eighties. Bowman left after the 79 season. For Lafleurs Guy to have seen Guy play especially the time period he is referring to he need to be at least 6-7 years old to remember anything. Thirdly, my gut instincts tell me Lafleurs Guy wasn't born in the late sixties. He isn't in his mid forties.

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04-23-2014, 06:11 PM
  #130
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I don't think that anyone's posts gets ignored as often as mine do.

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04-23-2014, 06:18 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
First off, I'm not surprised there are people 45 & older. Secondly, the Bowman-Lafleur years were not in the early eighties. Bowman left after the 79 season. For Lafleurs Guy to have seen Guy play especially the time period he is referring to he need to be at least 6-7 years old to remember anything. Thirdly, my gut instincts tell me Lafleurs Guy wasn't born in the late sixties. He isn't in his mid forties.
He may have mention Lafleur/Bowman but what I quoted from you was the specific question "you watched Lafluer play?" I'm well aware of when Bowman left.

I don't know what relation are history you have with the poster you mentioned even if just by conversations on this website but I don't see the point of someone lying about 'ive seen this player or that player play'. Why would someone lie about stuff like that? You may be right but that seems pretty sad and pathetic to me and without knowing someone, I usually give then the benefit of the doubt in that regard

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04-23-2014, 06:18 PM
  #132
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I don't think that anyone's posts gets ignored as often as mine do.
I always read your posts

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04-23-2014, 06:22 PM
  #133
Lars Mon Amour
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I read your post too buddy but didn't replied because you kept writing "Deshairnais".


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Old
04-23-2014, 06:30 PM
  #134
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Stop creating strawmans.
The French/English crap is a means of dismissing criticism. Leave it in the sewer wear it belongs.
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
How old are you? You saw Lafleur play?
Sure did. Saw an intrasquad team Canada game back at the forum in the day with Lafleur and Gretz on the same team.
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Originally Posted by geisha78 View Post
Is it surprising to you that there are people on this forum that are 45 years old and over? The guy isn't talking about Howie Morenz. The mid 70's and eRly 80's weren't all that long ago.
Four score and seven years ago...
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
First off, I'm not surprised there are people 45 & older. Secondly, the Bowman-Lafleur years were not in the early eighties. Bowman left after the 79 season. For Lafleurs Guy to have seen Guy play especially the time period he is referring to he need to be at least 6-7 years old to remember anything. Thirdly, my gut instincts tell me Lafleurs Guy wasn't born in the late sixties. He isn't in his mid forties.
No, but I'm gettin' damn close.
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Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
I don't think that anyone's posts gets ignored as often as mine do.
They aren't ignored. I read your posts. If you write really long posts though, you're less likely to get a reply.
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Originally Posted by RIPFORUMRDS View Post
P.S : an opinion is NOT A FACT. even if you put all your heart on it, its not a damn fact.it is still your OPINION.
p.s 2 : Trying to look like a coach and think you'd do better is so pretentious, aka im now going to ignore you. So tired of the same people thinking they know better. So pretentious its incredible.
Sure. But there are tons of facts showing that he hasn't been a good coach for us this year:

- Outshot
- Outchanced
- Actually outscored at 5 on 5
- PP went from 1st to 20th
- Scoring is bottom third in the league

Those are facts, not opinion. I'm sure some of the stat guys could show you the possession numbers as well - they are terrible.

Now factor in the following facts and draw your conclusions

- MT called out Subban on mulitiple occassions.
- PK Subban's numbers fell pretty signficantly after a great start this year and a Norris last year.
- Only one line was anywhere near consistently productive this year.
- Almost every player on our team regressed statistically
- Goaltending was statistically among the top in the league.
- Nathan Beaulieu is statistically superior to Murray and Bouillion almost across the board. He's in Hamilton.
- Bouillion is one of the least productive players in the league but has played regularly on the PP.

So yeah, its opinion (and guess what - its ALWAYS opinion on a message board) but its a very well supported one.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 04-23-2014 at 06:47 PM.
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Old
04-23-2014, 06:36 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
The only problem I had/have with Therrien was his nonsensical treatment of Subban and to a lesser extent, Deshairnais and Bouillon. To his credit, he has made all the right decisions with all three of them in the playoffs.

Subban is back to his fantastic self, not so much because of Therrien's coaching, but mostly because of Therrien seemingly allowing PK to be himself; and the other reasons being that (perhaps) PK is better focused. Subban is seemingly more cautious about making risky plays (not that the junk about Subban being abnormally "risky" is true) while maintaining his solid offensive instincts--something that Therrien may be slightly responsible for.

I was wrong about his use of Deshairnais, I will definitely admit that. He understood the importance of DD playing better; he understood that giving up on Deshairnais would only hurt the team. I didn't understand that, so I foolishly wanted Therrien's head off with ASAP.

But can you imagine where this team would be without a confident and available Deshairnais? He isn't our best forward, he isn't our best center. But whether some of you like it or not, as of this moment, he is the best center for Max Pac and Vanek. Playing with Max and Deshairnais for years to come may be one of the reasons Vanek decides to remain a Hab (that, poutine, and $$).

As for Bouillion, like Subban, I am mostly happy with Therrien's use of him only in the playoffs. I disliked how Therrien utilized Boillion for the entire season, but Therrien choosing to play Bouillion over Murray, and not overplaying him helped us beat Tampa. Murray's lack of speed and mobility would have hurt us against the speedy and energetic Lightning. Plus, I hear that Bouillion was a plus 5 in that series.

For those of you who do not want to credit Therrien's coaching against Tampa:

1. So many of you mentioned how scared you were of Tampa's young, speedy, and energetic forwards. Where were their speed and energy during the series? Did they forget that they had speed? Did they confuse themselves with Murray? They couldn't utilize their speed much because the Habs disabled them from freely entering our zone. We dominated the neutral zone, that is all about placing; it's all about a system. It's all about coaching.

2. We won this series mostly because of our depth, but not just that, but Therrien's use of our depth. Our forward lines gave Cooper nightmares. Funnily, it gave me (and many of you) nightmares too before game 1. Not so much because they were bad lines, but because they seemed to random. But clearly, it worked out to the team's benefit.

When we learned that Briere has been placed on the 4th line, how many of us were whining about the stupidity of that move? Well, who is saying that now? The 4th line was fantastic for us. Our lines made it very difficult for Tampa to have any real momentum and advantage over us.

I am not a big fan of Therrien; but I am a big fan of the Habs. So far that reason, I will credit Therrien where credit is due. He is not a master tactician, he has his nonsensical ideas at times, but he has done a fairly admirable job, nonetheless.

Nice post sir. Seriously, really a nice one and i wish i could read more of those kind of post in here.

I really wish i had your english writing '' skills''. This board for me is where i practice the more my second languange. Anyways im getting offtopic, AGAIN

Only thing im not 100% in agreement is the MT-Subban stuff. Im not saying you are wrong, but im not saying that you are right, because quiet frankly, we dont know how things are when camera arent on. From what we saw this year, it LOOKED like subby was the whipping( wipping, wiping? ) boy. Do we have any confirmation or fact that proves that subban indeed said he was that person? Im seriously asking, if i missed that part well, i will agree 100% with your post and wasted precious ( lol ) minutes from your life.

Yes, im well aware therrien bashed subban couple time this season , but he was right when he did it. Subban did cost us game. As Bouillon or Emelin or any other D that habs have cost game or goal. Im really hoping Therrien will find the strenght to say next question when a journalist ask him '' Michel, do you think x or y or z player cost your team the game by doing this or that in that very situation''

Michel, please, learn to either shut up or to blame everyone and not your superstar only, even if he deserve to be blamed, JUST DONT DO IT ( TAKE THAT NIKE ). I know it can be tough because like me, your are an emotional person and that lead us into situation that could be avoided by saying next question.


Last edited by RIPFORUMRDS: 04-23-2014 at 06:46 PM.
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Old
04-23-2014, 06:44 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
So what are you implying here? That most of us who are not Therrien's biggest supporter are not because he speaks french? If I'm misreading you here, please clarify. There are plenty of excellent french coaches both in the pros and throughout minor leagues, I just don't believe he's one of them.

how he manages the bench is his most important duty as a coach. If he isn't particularly good at that, the rest doesn't make a difference. You think PK Subban needs extra motivation for a playoff game? C'mon dude, everything doesn't have to revert back to the anglo/franco discussion every time people disagree.
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C'mon man. i just got an infraction on the main board for calling out a bigoted a-hole from Toronto and I gotta come & read the similar crap on this site.

WS is French Canadian and he is not sold on Therrien. Does he have an agenda too?

I don't agree with them but I think most people don't like Therrien because they think they know more about hockey than he does. Or they remember him from the last time he was here. Or they think he's gauche. But few hate him because he's francophone.
I'm not saying all that hates Therrien do so because he speaks french.. but it's a big factor for a lot of people consciously for some and unconsciously for others. And I'll leave it at that. Probably shouldn't have brought it up because it's just drama in the making.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The French/English crap is a means of dismissing criticism. Leave it in the sewer wear it belongs.
Agreed.

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04-23-2014, 06:56 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
No, but I'm gettin' damn close.


So, you never saw Lafleur play for Bowman but you're making observations about how he played for him. You don't see the irony, there?

By the way I did see Guy play for Bowman and I can tell you you don't know what you're talking about.

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04-23-2014, 07:01 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

Sure. But there are tons of facts showing that he hasn't been a good coach for us this year:

- Outshot
- Outchanced
- Actually outscored at 5 on 5
- PP went from 1st to 20th
- Scoring is bottom third in the league

Those are facts, not opinion. I'm sure some of the stat guys could show you the possession numbers as well - they are terrible.

Now factor in the following facts and draw your conclusions

- MT called out Subban on mulitiple occassions.
- PK Subban's numbers fell pretty signficantly after a great start this year and a Norris last year.
- Only one line was anywhere near consistently productive this year.
- Almost every player on our team regressed statistically
- Goaltending was statistically among the top in the league.
- Nathan Beaulieu is statistically superior to Murray and Bouillion almost across the board. He's in Hamilton.
- Bouillion is one of the least productive players in the league but has played regularly on the PP.

So yeah, its opinion (and guess what - its ALWAYS opinion on a message board) but its a very well supported one.
Except for the fact that we finished with 100 pts and top 10 team in the league. Outside of the 2 pts, regular season games simply do not matter. You place WAYYYY too much importance on them.

I can't in good conscience start a crusade against a coach who has got the team to 100 pts and a first round sweep.

If the team had not shown more than what they did in the regular season and gotten eliminated I'd be clamoring for Therrien's head louder than you.

You claim we played badly to 100 pts. Maybe so. But why would a coach change anything when he's having a 100 pts season ? Coaches simply do not fix what is not broken. And what gets them points in the regular season is not broken. All that matters is the 2 pts. As long as the team gets 2 pts and gets through the grind it's all that matters. I'm certain that changes would have been made if we had somehow nearly fallen out of the playoffs.

The real test was always the playoffs. And so far we cannot ask for anything to be better in the playoffs. So there is no reason to have anything but praise for Therrien. Just no reason at all. You might not like his methods, might not like how he treated Subban, managed his bench, or any other of the reasons you mentionned, but as long as the team piles up wins in the playoffs, it just doesn't matter. It would be surprising if we won the cup, so we'll likely lose before we get there and I'm sure you'll have plenty of ammo to bash Therrien then. But his actions leading to a 100 pts season is just a terrible terrible argument.

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Old
04-23-2014, 07:11 PM
  #139
Lafleurs Guy
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So, you never saw Lafleur play for Bowman but you're making observations about how he played for him. You don't see the irony, there?

By the way I did see Guy play for Bowman and I can tell you you don't know what you're talking about.
So I have to have been alive for the Cuban Missile Crisis to have an opinion on it?

Dude, Bowman and Lafleur is very well documented. Larry Robinson talked about it at length. Bowman tried to get Guy to play a system and he consistently failed at it. Eventually he just let him play his game.

Not sure what to tell you here...

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04-23-2014, 07:19 PM
  #140
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It's all about pre-conceived notions. It's a week I hear how great a coach Cooper is. What I saw was a disorganized, unstructured team that gave up breakaways and odd man rushes that was embarrassing for an NHL team. I saw a team that had a weakness on defense and a coach that was unable to protect and insulate his back line. I saw a coach that was unable to make critical decisions, like changing goalies, that could of affected the series.

But Cooper has great communication and presentation skills and so everyone forgets that his team got swept in a series that 3 out of 4 games they lost be a goal.

Therrien suffers from his persona. His communication skills are terrible, even in french. People assume he's an idiot because he butchers both English and French. But he has proven in his career that he's a winner, and as a coach that is the first and foremost measuring stick.

Is he a great coach? Is he an idiot? Doesn't matter. He has proven he can win.

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04-23-2014, 07:22 PM
  #141
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Except for the fact that we finished with 100 pts and top 10 team in the league.
We were outplayed consistently. I don't see how that warrants praise for the coach.
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Outside of the 2 pts, regular season games simply do not matter. You place WAYYYY too much importance on them.
That's a different topic altogether.
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I can't in good conscience start a crusade against a coach who has got the team to 100 pts and a first round sweep.
Nobody is asking you to.
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Is he a great coach? Is he an idiot? Doesn't matter. He has proven he can win.
It does matter.

Its the difference between the team winning in part because of him or... despite him.

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04-23-2014, 07:25 PM
  #142
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All the arguments about individual stats are very stupid. Victory is more important than Subban having more points. I bet Washington's fans would gladly trade 10 goals of Ovechkin for a playoffs spot.

Washington is coached exactly like some of the critics are asking Therrien to do by the way. A country club where players do what they want.

I prefer victories to players happiness.

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04-23-2014, 07:32 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
So in your opinion, if the team wins and plays well, it must mean the coach is a good one? A team can't win despite the coach?
And I quote, from HockeyInsideout:
“We’re really happy for what we’ve accomplished so far,” Habs forward Lars Eller told reporters after Tuesday’s Game 4 victory, singling out the work of coaches and the scouting staff. “But this is a really humble group and we don’t look too far ahead. . . . It shows we’ve been able to have a game plan and execute it really well.”
Now, unless Lars Eller--and all of his teammates who said almost precisely the same thing when interviewed on TV, in print and on radio--is a liar or a very quick study of clichés, the players themselves were the ones echoing the strategy and the tactical adjustments of the coaching staff.

Oh, and you still haven't responded to a single fact. Yours is the blah, blah, blah.

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04-23-2014, 07:32 PM
  #144
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I really disliked him throughout the year but I guess he's doing something right and I just can't see it.

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Sens players beat up 5'8" Habs players, they are praised. Subban beats up a small Sens player, he's a coward, he's spot picking, he's this, he's that, he's too NBA, he's too NFL, cocky, classless, etc, etc, etc.... You guys are too much.
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04-23-2014, 07:35 PM
  #145
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I have asked how he outcoached Cooper and have never received a response.
Actually, if you check, I gave two pretty detailed responses to another person who listens to Glen Healy exclusively, and then I quoted Eller's comments,
“We’re really happy for what we’ve accomplished so far,” Habs forward Lars Eller told reporters after Tuesday’s Game 4 victory, singling out the work of coaches and the scouting staff. “But this is a really humble group and we don’t look too far ahead. . . . It shows we’ve been able to have a game plan and execute it really well.”
and these echo the sentiments of any teammate who has appeared on TV, in print or on radio. They are not just spouting the party line as if they were good little Harper Conservatives. They are quite effusive in their praise of the coaching staff.

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04-23-2014, 07:37 PM
  #146
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We were outplayed consistently. I don't see how that warrants praise for the coach.
No one is saying that Therrien is a genius, but he doesn't deserve to be called a bad coach by HF over a 100 pts season. He did an okay job getting us to the playoffs in one piece.

Quote:
That's a different topic altogether.
On the contrary, I find that it's pretty much the crux of the matter.

If, like me, you placed less importance on regular season games, you'd have withheld judgement on Therrien until you had seen how the team behaved in the playoffs.

I have 2 requirements about the regular season :

1-Finish with a decent amount of pts to avoid facing powerhouses in the first round
2-Get there with gas left in the tank without too much drama and knowing that we have another gear for the playoffs

We achieved that. If you want the team to look better in the regular season, we will need more firepower up front so we can coast on skill a bit more. Signing Vanek would go a long way toward that.

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04-23-2014, 07:38 PM
  #147
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I see the Legion of Doom moves from thread to thread

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04-23-2014, 07:54 PM
  #148
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I want to see how he reacts when things aren't going so good. All he had to do was sit back and enjoy the show. The habs were clicking in all aspects against an inferior club. His system looked great, but I still don't believe he's an intelligent man who is better than any other average coach. I think he's really bad, but I can't complain about him during the first round, everything worked, but I'm not ready to proclaim him to be anything more than what I thought he was after watching 82 games.

82 >>> 4. If the team continues to respond to MT the way they did this series, obviously I'll be eating crow, but I don't think he did anything special, but he certainly didn't do anything to hurt us either in the first round.

My dislike for Therrien has absolutely nothing to do with the language he speaks, there are many qualified french speaking Canadians to run the habs. The problem I have with the language thing is the process leading to the decision, being French should give two otherwise equal candidates an advantage, no doubt, but it shouldn't be the number one trait. We shouldn't be eliminating candidates based on language alone, we should put them through the process, if we like what they're selling, provide language training/interpreters for the coach if he's willing to do so. I believe anyone vying for the position has an obligation to at least learn the basics of the language the province speaks, but I think ruling out otherwise potentially better candidates on this criteria alone is a huge mistake.
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So I have to have been alive for the Cuban Missile Crisis to have an opinion on it?

Dude, Bowman and Lafleur is very well documented. Larry Robinson talked about it at length. Bowman tried to get Guy to play a system and he consistently failed at it. Eventually he just let him play his game.

Not sure what to tell you here...
I seem to recollect that Lafleur just didn't get the ice time the first few years, that's why he wasn't as productive as we was latterly.

Ah, found this, from the horses mouth:

http://oilersnation.com/2013/10/16/g...s-some-stories

"Lafleur: Yeah, well for me, it was just a question of time. I knew that if I would get the ice time, I would be okay."

Interestingly, also suggests there wasn't much of focus on defense, at least until the playoffs.

"Gregor: When you played there wasn’t as much of an onus on defense. Did coaches only tell you to focus on defence when the playoffs started?

Lafleur: It only happened in playoffs. When I was playing with Lemaire as a centremen he knew that me and Steve would be the offense all of the way, so that’s why he always stayed back, but in the playoffs we thought more about playing defensive as a line."

Sooo, not sure about this whole systems thing you're talking about.


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04-23-2014, 07:54 PM
  #149
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I always read your posts


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Originally Posted by Lars Mon Amour View Post
I read your post too buddy but didn't replied because you kept writing "Deshairnais".

I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to call me out on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
They aren't ignored. I read your posts. If you write really long posts though, you're less likely to get a reply.
You know you are Lafleurs Guy, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RIPFORUMRDS View Post
Nice post sir. Seriously, really a nice one and i wish i could read more of those kind of post in here.

I really wish i had your english writing '' skills''. This board for me is where i practice the more my second languange. Anyways im getting offtopic, AGAIN

Only thing im not 100% in agreement is the MT-Subban stuff. Im not saying you are wrong, but im not saying that you are right, because quiet frankly, we dont know how things are when camera arent on. From what we saw this year, it LOOKED like subby was the whipping( wipping, wiping? ) boy. Do we have any confirmation or fact that proves that subban indeed said he was that person? Im seriously asking, if i missed that part well, i will agree 100% with your post and wasted precious ( lol ) minutes from your life.

Yes, im well aware therrien bashed subban couple time this season , but he was right when he did it. Subban did cost us game. As Bouillon or Emelin or any other D that habs have cost game or goal. Im really hoping Therrien will find the strenght to say next question when a journalist ask him '' Michel, do you think x or y or z player cost your team the game by doing this or that in that very situation''

Michel, please, learn to either shut up or to blame everyone and not your superstar only, even if he deserve to be blamed, JUST DONT DO IT ( TAKE THAT NIKE ). I know it can be tough because like me, your are an emotional person and that lead us into situation that could be avoided by saying next question.
You are far too generous, thanks for your kind comments. All great writers read and write a lot, so you and I are on the right track.

The problem I have with Therrien's handling of Subban is that he doesn't seem to respect him as a superstar veteran. Yet, he goes out of his way to show respect for other veterans. Like you suggested, even if Subban is deserving of blame, you don't take that to the public. You should trust and respect your star player enough to talk to him about it in private.

He too often seemingly pretends that Subban is a rookie with great potential. The problem with that is, Subban isn't a rookie, and he has already reached his potential! In fact, he's surpassed his potential, as far as I am concerned.

When a coach goes out of his way to defend and speak well of a player like Bouillon but goes out of his way to criticize (nonsensically so at times too) the reigning Norris-winner...it's just maddening.

It 's crazy, these are the players Therrien has critisized in the Media: White, Bourque, Eller, and Subban. One of those is not like the others!

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04-23-2014, 07:56 PM
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Because of the success of my whining about you guys ignoring my posts...Guys, I'm so broke, I could really use some money right now...

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