HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Michel Therrien

View Poll Results: Rate Michel Therrien
Good 157 49.37%
Average 119 37.42%
Bad 42 13.21%
Voters: 318. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-23-2014, 08:10 PM
  #151
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,460
vCash: 243
blackstar,

You had a really good post, I rarely can read super long posts on here but I was totally into yours. You had some really good honest analysis in there, I enjoyed how you were truthful in the way you viewed him but changed your opinion but at the same time, also called him out for things he did wrong.

The one thing that Therrien has done somehow and I don't understand it but he has built a team, this is a team, this is a cohesive unit, they are working towards the same goal. Even when PK was getting the shaft, he was spewing the team aspect, he never once spoke against Therrien. A couple years back, Markov minorly called out Subban but you EVEN with Subban having his worst (partial) year this year, none of his teammates called him out or said anything. They sat back and allowed the system to take its course.

I noticed it down the stretch how we'd get a lead then play safe and then the very rare time where we lost the lead in the 3rd, the team amazingly changed paces and they picked it back up and started attacking and won those games. We were something like 30-1 when leading after 2. But down the stretch there was a couple of games where we blew the lead in the 3rd but we still ended up winning that game because we got aggressive after sitting back trying to protect the lead.

The team obviously buys into the system and are following it.

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 08:20 PM
  #152
dutchy29
Registered User
 
dutchy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SIRISAACBROCKVILLE
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,631
vCash: 500
Its working, but round 1 win does not make a great coach. If we go to the final 4, I will pump his tires for sure, but for now I'm saying average.

dutchy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 08:43 PM
  #153
Habs_Apostle
Registered User
 
Habs_Apostle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

Sure did. Saw an intrasquad team Canada game back at the forum in the day with Lafleur and Gretz on the same team.

Four score and seven years ago...

No, but I'm gettin' damn close.

They aren't ignored. I read your posts. If you write really long posts though, you're less likely to get a reply.

Sure. But there are tons of facts showing that he hasn't been a good coach for us this year:

- Outshot
- Outchanced
- Actually outscored at 5 on 5
- PP went from 1st to 20th
- Scoring is bottom third in the league

Those are facts, not opinion. I'm sure some of the stat guys could show you the possession numbers as well - they are terrible.
Correlation does not imply causation.

There likely isn't a coach in history that hasn't at one time or another had some pretty dismal numbers. It only takes a couple of key players to go into a funk to throw things off, and suddenly the team falls apart. How do we know this wasn't the case here? Far from Therrien being the cause of all these ills, maybe he was actually the one holding things together just enough so as to keep us afloat?

Well, I don't know, and you sure as hell don't either.

Also, I've heard you throw Guy Boucher's name in there as someone who might replace Therrien. Let's take a look at his Corsi % (a proxy for puck possession) during his two full years of tenure in Tampa.

2010-2011: 51.8% (8th in the league)

None too shabby!

2011-2012: 47.3% (27th in league)

Oopsie daisies!

So just like Therrien's numbers have fallen off, then, so did Boucher's. Yet you want (or at least allow) Boucher to become the Habs new coach? If crappy numbers = crappy coach, then your opinion of Boucher shouldn't be any higher than that of Therrien. By the way, despite better talent, Patrick Roy's Corsi % is as crappy as Therrien's this year (47% and 46.7%, respectively). So, again, if crappy numbers = crappy coach, (just in case you've pondered it) you sure as hell shouldn't want Roy either.


Last edited by Habs_Apostle: 04-23-2014 at 10:02 PM.
Habs_Apostle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 08:51 PM
  #154
RIPFORUMRDS
Registered User
 
RIPFORUMRDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: none of your busines
Posts: 300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
Because of the success of my whining about you guys ignoring my posts...Guys, I'm so broke, I could really use some money right now...
ROFL, good try Blackstar. I cant say im '' mad broke '' but lets say i cant wait for my first paycheck at my new job.

just write some poem and go sell them on the street. might work if you live in a big city like N.Y. You do need some talent. Im sure you have that talent.

Neways... so much off topic with me.

so to stay on topic. gohabsgo!

RIPFORUMRDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 08:54 PM
  #155
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,460
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIPFORUMRDS View Post
just write some poem and go sell them on the street. might work if you live in a big city like N.Y. You do need some talent. Im sure you have that talent.
Or you can move to Houston and hold up a cardboard sign and make crazy money, no talent needed, only thing you have to do, is be able to look poor, scraggly and ugly.

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 09:08 PM
  #156
THE HOFF
Registered User
 
THE HOFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
For point 3, Therrien did pretty much the minimum amount of line matching he could, he rolled his lines and ignored what Tampa was doing. It was the right call but when your third and 4th lines are your most productive it's normal that they play more. When you have two elite defenceman on different pairings it's normal you don't care which one goes out against Stamkos. Nothing here makes him a good coach, they're evidence he's not a complete idiot.

Point 1 isn't anything to write home about either. It would've been hard for Therrien to make more mistakes even if he tried.

Point 2 I agree with and I think it's often overlooked. Even during our crappy games during the regular season you could rarely say the problem was that our guys weren't prepared for the puck drop.
I listed the 3 points really fast, for point 3 I'd add a lot more stuff. I thought the forchecking game was probably the best ive seen the habs execute. We had them shut down when they had the puck behind their net ... I thought the more ''organized'' the bolts looked to get out of the zone, the better we shut them down. we got caught by a bad pinch here and there and some lucky bounces but generally speaking the shape was just wow imho, especially after the 1rst game.

for point 1 I'd like to hear your analysis ... I just thought that in the coaching mistakes department I give the edge to therrien. he made less errors imho.

THE HOFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 10:12 PM
  #157
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Nilan View Post
Actually, if you check, I gave two pretty detailed responses to another person who listens to Glen Healy exclusively, and then I quoted Eller's comments,
“We’re really happy for what we’ve accomplished so far,” Habs forward Lars Eller told reporters after Tuesday’s Game 4 victory, singling out the work of coaches and the scouting staff. “But this is a really humble group and we don’t look too far ahead. . . . It shows we’ve been able to have a game plan and execute it really well.”
and these echo the sentiments of any teammate who has appeared on TV, in print or on radio. They are not just spouting the party line as if they were good little Harper Conservatives. They are quite effusive in their praise of the coaching staff.
This really doesn't tell me anything, though.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 10:14 PM
  #158
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
C'mon man. i just got an infraction on the main board for calling out a bigoted a-hole from Toronto and I gotta come & read the similar crap on this site.

WS is French Canadian and he is not sold on Therrien. Does he have an agenda too?

I don't agree with them but I think most people don't like Therrien because they think they know more about hockey than he does. Or they remember him from the last time he was here. Or they think he's gauche. But few hate him because he's francophone.
Well I don,t have an agenda aside from hating the hiring when it happened....and sticking with my opinion while admitting he's done better than I thought he would.

But E=CH2 do have a point as a lot of people in here don't hide themselves when it's time to talk about the "requirement" you need to have to be a coach for the Montreal Canadiens. So everybody who strongly believes that we're missing so many candidates because of that requirement, will evidently have an agenda always hoping that at one point, their view will be proven sooner than later.

Yet, I think it's possible to have an agenda....and still open your eyes and see that it was not a disaster we thought it would be.

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 10:28 PM
  #159
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
No one is saying that Therrien is a genius, but he doesn't deserve to be called a bad coach by HF over a 100 pts season. He did an okay job getting us to the playoffs in one piece.
Why not? The team didn't play well for most of the year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
On the contrary, I find that it's pretty much the crux of the matter.
No, it isn't. And this is what you keep missing.

We can't evaluate what hasn't happened yet. We can evaluate what's taken place. We didn't really play well this year. Our goalie did. We did well in the standings... but we didn't play well. Folks questioned why we were playing a passive system and said we should play with the puck.

And I'd say the critics were right. And MT seems to have acknowledged this and gone back to the puck possession team we had in the first place. Props to him for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
I seem to recollect that Lafleur just didn't get the ice time the first few years, that's why he wasn't as productive as we was latterly.

Ah, found this, from the horses mouth:

http://oilersnation.com/2013/10/16/g...s-some-stories

"Lafleur: Yeah, well for me, it was just a question of time. I knew that if I would get the ice time, I would be okay."

Interestingly, also suggests there wasn't much of focus on defense, at least until the playoffs.

"Gregor: When you played there wasn’t as much of an onus on defense. Did coaches only tell you to focus on defence when the playoffs started?

Lafleur: It only happened in playoffs. When I was playing with Lemaire as a centremen he knew that me and Steve would be the offense all of the way, so that’s why he always stayed back, but in the playoffs we thought more about playing defensive as a line."

Sooo, not sure about this whole systems thing you're talking about.
Check this out:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1w...f-hockey_sport

If you're a Lafleur fan you'll enjoy it. He couldn't play a system and they just let him "fly by the seat of his pants."
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
You know you are Lafleurs Guy, right?
I'm an extremely fast typist. If I wasn't, my posts would be shorter.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 10:31 PM
  #160
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
It's all about pre-conceived notions. It's a week I hear how great a coach Cooper is. What I saw was a disorganized, unstructured team that gave up breakaways and odd man rushes that was embarrassing for an NHL team. I saw a team that had a weakness on defense and a coach that was unable to protect and insulate his back line. I saw a coach that was unable to make critical decisions, like changing goalies, that could of affected the series.

But Cooper has great communication and presentation skills and so everyone forgets that his team got swept in a series that 3 out of 4 games they lost be a goal.

Therrien suffers from his persona. His communication skills are terrible, even in french. People assume he's an idiot because he butchers both English and French. But he has proven in his career that he's a winner, and as a coach that is the first and foremost measuring stick.

Is he a great coach? Is he an idiot? Doesn't matter. He has proven he can win.
So all these bad things you saw from Cooper and yet he lead his team to 101pts during the season. Oh my, what does this mean????

Well it doesn't mean jack crap. That's what.
So many things can influence your standing rank during a 7month period. It goes beyond whether or not there's a good coach behind the bench. You can have a rather crappy one and do good, you can have a bad one and do bad, you can replace the bad one with a good one and do great, or you can replace a good one with a bad one and change nothing..
Injuries, match ups, scheduling, timing, individualistic performances, luck (I guess this could fall under timing too, kind of like how we end up facing a team that just happens to suffer an injury to key player) they can all have a huge impact on where you finish in the standing and none of them can be influenced by the coach. So people just looking at the standings to form their opinion are doing the same as assuming a player is bad defensively if he's in the minuses.

It's never about just one stat. It's always about looking at all of them, putting them together and then concluding.
If you do that, then it doesn't get more obvious. We did not have a very good structure this season. You don't want to blame the coach for that, you think it's the players? Then okay, but when you look at the fact most of the players regressed then it's tough not to point towards coaching.

Is it because Therrien is a bad coach? Or is it because he felt it was the right way for us to get to the POs? Or because he felt his guys weren't going to be able to sustain a more upbeat system? Or because he thought some of his guys struggled and wanted to simplify things for them? Is it because players didn't follow his game plan??..Who knows.
All I can really say is that when you look at all the stats, it shows a team that had a weak (or lack of) structure, and relied pretty heavily on goalies for bail outs.

I didn't like that. I didn't like the way we didn't try things during pre-season. I didn't like how Bouillon was always on the PP. I didn't like how PK was handled. I didn't like that Galchenyuk was never really tried at center. I didn't like that Eller was taken off a working trio and shoved back. I didn't like how we preferred guys like Bouillon or Murray over Beaulieu/Tinordi. I didn't like our style of game at all.
Because of all of this, I don't really feel like I can give much credit to Therrien. I can give him credit for DD's resurrection and MaxPac almost reaching 40goals, but overall, I don't feel like I have a lot to credit him for.

That is the regular season of 13-14. Gave him plenty of props for last year, and right now, not that I think he had a big challenge in front of him, he did as good a job I could expect of him, so big props. What's important to note here is that we are not playing now (or last year) as we did during this regular season.

It'll be interesting to see how he adapts in round 2 where we will have a tougher match up.


Last edited by Kriss E: 04-23-2014 at 10:51 PM.
Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 10:43 PM
  #161
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
Correlation does not imply causation.

There likely isn't a coach in history that hasn't at one time or another had some pretty dismal numbers.
It only takes a couple of key players to go into a funk to throw things off, and suddenly the team falls apart. How do we know this wasn't the case here? Far from Therrien being the cause of all these ills, maybe he was actually the one holding things together just enough so as to keep us afloat?

Well, I don't know, and you sure as hell don't either.
And when those numbers were dismal, it makes sense to look at why.

In this case the standings were good but the play wasn't. The underlying numbers were awful.

Good numbers in 2013 with puck possession system. He was praised for this by most people (including me.) Terrible numbers in 2014 with a passive system. Many people (including me) ripped him for this.

Now we're (seemingly) back to the old way of doing things. Great. That's what people were asking for in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
Also, I've heard you throw Guy Boucher's name in there as someone who might replace Therrien.
Others brought him up and I've commented on him and expressed a concern that he might be a trapping coach. Others have told me not to worry about it. I really don't have that strong an opinion on him one way or the other.

But I guess that's not going to stop you from attributing a whole bunch more stuff to me that I've never said. Again...

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 11:01 PM
  #162
Ralbert09
Rookie User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4
vCash: 500
My god there are so many negative people on this forum. Has it always been like this? It seems like some people would still have stuff to ***** about even if the habs won the cup.

I think MT is doing a fine job. Better than any one on here could do. So quit your *****ing.

Ralbert09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 11:13 PM
  #163
Habs_Apostle
Registered User
 
Habs_Apostle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
And when those numbers were dismal, it makes sense to look at why.

In this case the standings were good but the play wasn't. The underlying numbers were awful.

Good numbers in 2013 with puck possession system. He was praised for this by most people (including me.) Terrible numbers in 2014 with a passive system. Many people (including me) ripped him for this.

Now we're (seemingly) back to the old way of doing things. Great. That's what people were asking for in the first place.

Others brought him up and I've commented on him and expressed a concern that he might be a trapping coach. Others have told me not to worry about it. I really don't have that strong an opinion on him one way or the other.

But I guess that's not going to stop you from attributing a whole bunch more stuff to me that I've never said. Again...
Here's your exact quote on Boucher once you learned he signed in Europe:

"Despite my misgivings with the trap he looked like he would've been a good fit here. Too bad."

What part of "he would have been a good fit here" did I misconstrue? I didn't attribute anything to you that you did not say.

Anyways, seeing how his numbers plummeted like Therrien's, holding all coaches to the same standard based on numbers, you clearly should not have stated "he would have been a good fit here".

But I do agree with you that given how Therrien's numbers have fallen off that you look to discern why. And Therrien certainly becomes a culprit. I just think you went overboard in blaming him. I mean, again, it only takes two or three players to not pull their weight to really disrupt chemistry, and then everything falls apart. So what I'm suggesting as a plausible alternative to your "it's all Therrien's fault" theory is that something like this happened...

Therrien didn't radically change anything; rather, a handful of players (whether because of injury, illness, lack of motivation, fatigue, etc) stopped puling their weight and the system went to hell. Now since Therrien and the players don't work in a vacuum, Therrien tried to adjust as best he could, perhaps making things worse. Regardless, he was able to hold things together enough that we were able to squeak out wins. And now that everyone is healthy and motivated and pulling their weight, well, it "appears" the system is back. But it's not like Therrien has been flipping switches like you suggest; rather, it's the players that have either successfully enacted the system or not that's making it work or not work.

Bottom line:

Therrien is partly to blame, sure; but like any successful relationship, it takes two to tango.

Habs_Apostle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 11:17 PM
  #164
Brainiac
Registered User
 
Brainiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,049
vCash: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Sure. But there are tons of facts showing that he hasn't been a good coach for us this year:

- Outshot
- Outchanced
- Actually outscored at 5 on 5
- PP went from 1st to 20th
- Scoring is bottom third in the league
Statistically speaking, we were an even team at 5 on 5. We gave up a whole two goals more than we scored (138 vs. 136). It's called negligible, you should look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligible

Brainiac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 11:19 PM
  #165
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
"Despite my misgivings with the trap he looked like he would've been a good fit here. Too bad."
Wow. Sounds like I was really lobbying hard for him to be here...

Please go read my posts on him. There are many. Like I said, I didn't have strong opinions on him one way or the other. And many jumped down my throat when I expressed concern that he might be a trapping coach.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 11:21 PM
  #166
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Statistically speaking, we were an even team at 5 on 5. We gave up a whole two goals more than we scored (138 vs. 136). It's called negligible, you should look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligible
I don't disagree with you.

My point is that you'd expect a 100 point team to be well in the black. But the underlying numbers aren't impressive - and (while your point is well taken) we did actually allow more 5 on 5 goals than we scored.

Anyways... no point continuing this. I'm out.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 11:45 PM
  #167
Habs_Apostle
Registered User
 
Habs_Apostle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Wow. Sounds like I was really lobbying hard for him to be here...

Please go read my posts on him. There are many. Like I said, I didn't have strong opinions on him one way or the other. And many jumped down my throat when I expressed concern that he might be a trapping coach.
I didn't say you were really lobbying hard for him. Look, you're a squirmy one. I've noticed when things don't quite go your way you pick out the tiniest things in peoples' posts and then go off on a tangent. You should really go into politics.

OK, I'm merely using this as an example of faulty reasoning. If you castigate and vilify Therrien for a drop in numbers from one season to another, then it makes no freaking sense to accept another coach who has likewise had a drop in numbers from one season to the next (especially, in addition, since you don't like a trapping system). What's the matter with you man? What were you thinking?

Therrien sucks!

Why?

Well, look at his drop in numbers from last season to this!

How about Boucher?

Uh, well, not high on him, but yeah, he could work.

But he's had a similar drop in numbers.

Oh really?

Yeah, AND he has a trap system.

Oh yeah, that's right.

Still, I think he could be a good fit.

For the love of God, man!

Habs_Apostle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2014, 11:59 PM
  #168
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,867
vCash: 500
Therrien adjusted the Habs system of play on offense and defense.

It worked very well against the Bolts.

What more could you ask for?

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2014, 06:31 AM
  #169
RIPFORUMRDS
Registered User
 
RIPFORUMRDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: none of your busines
Posts: 300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I don't disagree with you.

My point is that you'd expect a 100 point team to be well in the black. But the underlying numbers aren't impressive - and (while your point is well taken) we did actually allow more 5 on 5 goals than we scored.

Anyways... no point continuing this. I'm out.

I didnt block you for a reason. The way i see things, you are only trying to debate and understand the reasonement of the others. Thats pretty cool from you.

Look, im not an expert in analytic in hockey stats. What i write is from what i see with my own eyes. I should probably go look at what the corsi stats are. I mean i know some stats. Win, lose. save % etc etc etc.

I can give you one thing. Habs have their best team since the awsome season of Guy Carbonneau as a coach. They were playing, i think, an offensive system that year, or at least, a system that lead to a lot of time in the offense zone. Was great for the season. Awful for the playoff.

So despise the habs playing a so-so year, they still had 100 pts ( ty carey ). I wont say 100 pts DESPISE MT but IMO, he def had bad moment. Lets not come back on those. Ill probably repeat myself but hey, who doesnt? Young kid had '' bad '' year because they lost confidence. Also, i think they had a hard time adjusting to this grindy style of hockey. Wasnt sexy at time, was ugly for a fan of offense like i am and like you probably are. But that grindy style will work against tougher team like boston and maybe even the tough team from the west. If they can be grindy, with all the speed they have, will be good man, very good. And if they need to score goal, im sure they can just switch the thingy and BAM offense time boy, lets go get some goal so we can come back to GRINDIN' ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWAWcx4xdE ).


and to answer your question southernhabs... we wanted 20 more pts in the season to secure home advantage for the SLC final cuz we that good,right guy? :-D

RIPFORUMRDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2014, 07:09 AM
  #170
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post

But E=CH2 do have a point as a lot of people in here don't hide themselves when it's time to talk about the "requirement" you need to have to be a coach for the Montreal Canadiens. So everybody who strongly believes that we're missing so many candidates because of that requirement, will evidently have an agenda always hoping that at one point, their view will be proven sooner than later.

You know a while back I stumbled on a Zen saying - or at least the writer thought it was Zen:

The world is as you see it.

If you think the world is a certain way you'll find the proof no matter how flimsy.

Let me ask you: How many is "a lot"? I agree with you there are some but hardly enough that makes it worth mentioning. Yes many stated they would have preferred the recruiting net to be larger AND I AGREED with them. But many of those posters - like me - have been won over by Therrien. He is a different coach. Most of his detractors which includes YOU haven't seen it yet.

hockeyfan2k11, Kriss & Lafleurs Guy are huge Therrien detractors and they make sure everyone knows it. They never once mentioned the francophone stuff. They stubbornly hold onto their views despite the facts presented but they have yet to mention it's because he was selected solely of languages spoken. They don't like him because probably they remember him from the last time he was here and the sofffff rant in Pittsburgh. As I mentioned a number of times I rolled my eyes when I heard he was hired. Not because they limited their scope but because I remembered Therrien from his previous stint here.

The sense I get is that a very small minority of posters dislike Therrien and believe he got the job only because he is a francophone. After all you are constantly reminding us yeah he's doing alright but Roy would do better. Does that mean you prefer only certain francophones?

onice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2014, 09:48 AM
  #171
Chris Nilan
Registered User
 
Chris Nilan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
This really doesn't tell me anything, though.
Seriously?

Then go back to about, oh, page 1 of this thread, and read the detailed descriptions of Therrien's work throughout the series. They stand out b/c they're the ones that mention actual things that happened in actual games.

Chris Nilan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2014, 09:59 AM
  #172
Grant McCagg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
And when those numbers were dismal, it makes sense to look at why.

In this case the standings were good but the play wasn't. The underlying numbers were awful.

Good numbers in 2013 with puck possession system. He was praised for this by most people (including me.) Terrible numbers in 2014 with a passive system. Many people (including me) ripped him for this.

Now we're (seemingly) back to the old way of doing things. Great. That's what people were asking for in the first place.

Others brought him up and I've commented on him and expressed a concern that he might be a trapping coach. Others have told me not to worry about it. I really don't have that strong an opinion on him one way or the other.

But I guess that's not going to stop you from attributing a whole bunch more stuff to me that I've never said. Again...
You try to make it sound pretty simplistic. There were reasons for Therrien's change in philosophy this season...at the start of the season, Briere wasn't playing well..he was a step slow..and thus Ryder/Cole wasn't being adequately replaced. Also Desharnais went into a slump, and then Eller...Bourque was in a season long slump, Gio wasn't producing, Pleks wasn't scoring much... We can argue until the cows come home that it's somehow Therrien's fault for Eller's slump and anyone else's..the fact remains Eller wasn't the same player he was before his face slam.

Therrien and the coaches surmised that there wasn't enough offensive talent to play an overly aggressive forecheck game..so the best way to win was to grind out victories...the tactic worked pretty well..the Habs stayed in a playoff position all season.

Then the deal for Vanek happened..he was eventually put with DD and Patch; Plek, Gio, Briere and Eller started playing better....the coaches concluded that there was now enough offensive depth again to be more aggressive offensively.

Coaches are allowed to change tactics during the season..it's not a bad thing..it's good in fact..shows some flexibility.

That has been what has impressed me most about Therrien this season - he has been adaptable and flexible. He really has matured as a coach. He didn't panic or throw anyone under the bus when the team faced adversity after the Olympics...he stopped criticizing players publicly and began praising more often... he has been willing to address his faults,and change his ways.

I've also done some changing..I've changed my opinion on his abilities as a coach. He's improved substantially. I think Bergy, Carriere and Duds deserve some credit for that..as do Gallant JJD and Jodoin. It's becoming evident that the management and coaching staffs are co-existing comfortably, and there is respect.

Grant McCagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2014, 11:21 AM
  #173
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
I listed the 3 points really fast, for point 3 I'd add a lot more stuff. I thought the forchecking game was probably the best ive seen the habs execute. We had them shut down when they had the puck behind their net ... I thought the more ''organized'' the bolts looked to get out of the zone, the better we shut them down. we got caught by a bad pinch here and there and some lucky bounces but generally speaking the shape was just wow imho, especially after the 1rst game.

for point 1 I'd like to hear your analysis ... I just thought that in the coaching mistakes department I give the edge to therrien. he made less errors imho.
Therrien deserves a lot of credit for both the gameplan and getting the players to buy in and execute it as well as they did. But that's only one aspect of coaching. The other being in-game and/or game to game adjustments. That's an aspect that Therrien has historically had issues with and it simply wasn't tested this series. All Therrien had to do was keep rolling his lines and pat people on the back after they scored.

Cooper was forced to make decisions and made a number of bad ones. So yeah Therrien made less mistakes, but at the same time Therrien didn't have the opportunity to make those mistakes. He didn't have to decide on whether to pull his struggling goalie, or who should come in as injury replacements, or what changes to the gameplan needed to be done.

Everybody has their strengths and their weaknesses. We got to see Therrien's strengths this series (Preparation) but his weaknesses weren't tested. So even though he did everything right this series, I'm not ready to change my opinion of him until he shows he can overcome his weaknesses.

Sorinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2014, 01:05 PM
  #174
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,888
vCash: 500
I have been critical of MT this year in how he has handled Eller, PK, so I am no fanboy, though not a hater either.

So we played a Bolts team without their number one goalie, their team is quite young and inexperienced, and their D did not perform well. Okay, but these Bolts finished ahead of us in the standings, scored more than we did while allowing just a few more goals, have very good speed and finished the regular season with 4 straight wins and won 7 out of 10.

I give MT and the staff credit for the game plan. We slowed down the Bolts in the neutral zone so took away that speed game of theirs, we went into an aggressive attack strategy which took advantage of that inexperience and got a lot of rubber on their goalie. We used our size to attack their slot as well.

Fact is we exploited our strengths and took advantage of their weaknesses, and that's what a good game plan is all about. The boys executed the plan. Well done MT and staff.

yianik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2014, 01:13 PM
  #175
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yianik View Post
I have been critical of MT this year in how he has handled Eller, PK, so I am no fanboy, though not a hater either.

So we played a Bolts team without their number one goalie, their team is quite young and inexperienced, and their D did not perform well. Okay, but these Bolts finished ahead of us in the standings, scored more than we did while allowing just a few more goals, have very good speed and finished the regular season with 4 straight wins and won 7 out of 10.

I give MT and the staff credit for the game plan. We slowed down the Bolts in the neutral zone so took away that speed game of theirs, we went into an aggressive attack strategy which took advantage of that inexperience and got a lot of rubber on their goalie. We used our size to attack their slot as well.

Fact is we exploited our strengths and took advantage of their weaknesses, and that's what a good game plan is all about. The boys executed the plan. Well done MT and staff.
"Guys, their goalie sucks. Just shoot the puck"

Sweep!

Not saying that's all Therrien did, but when a team relies on their goalie to win them games and that goalie is replaced by a sieve, I'd say that team is pretty much screwed, no? I think we should all wait and see how the team performs against Boston/Detroit before hailing MT.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.