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Elias re-signes with Devils

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08-24-2005, 09:49 AM
  #1
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Elias re-signes with Devils

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/hearsay.jsp

 
Old
08-24-2005, 09:54 AM
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NJ 5 mil over the cap. Time for GM Jr. to act and sign D-men David Hale and Paul Martin to offer sheets at <2 mill. All it will cost leafs is 2nd round draft pick for players who are better prospects than Colaiacovo.

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08-24-2005, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
NJ 5 mil over the cap. Time for GM Jr. to act and sign D-men David Hale and Paul Martin to offer sheets at <2 mill. All it will cost leafs is 2nd round draft pick for players who are better prospects than Colaiacovo.
Devils would match and then trade. They have until after the season starts to get under the cap.

There are still teams with lots of cap space and that list excludes the Leafs.

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08-24-2005, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ULF_55
Devils would match and then trade. They have until after the season starts to get under the cap.

There are still teams with lots of cap space and that list excludes the Leafs.
Leafs have 6 mill of space not including Allison's Bonuses and having 21 player roster. If they match it costs the leafs nothing. At least this way they are in the game rather than placing their heads in the ice bucket behind the bench.

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08-24-2005, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
NJ 5 mil over the cap. Time for GM Jr. to act and sign D-men David Hale and Paul Martin to offer sheets at <2 mill. All it will cost leafs is 2nd round draft pick for players who are better prospects than Colaiacovo.
With all due respect, and I do respect you as a poster. But, please realize that signing offer sheets is not the way to go about things. Yes, it's fully within the rules of the NHL, but how many have actually worked out, and think of the repercussions those teams dealt with afterwards (Sakic, Fedorov etc.).

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08-24-2005, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Dar
With all due respect, and I do respect you as a poster. But, please realize that signing offer sheets is not the way to go about things. Yes, it's fully within the rules of the NHL, but how many have actually worked out, and think of the repercussions those teams dealt with afterwards (Sakic, Fedorov etc.).
Your an excellent poster and I enjoy debating with you but it is a new NHL. We have to adapt and think differently. Too many guys are not thinking outside the box. In the old CBA I would never advocate signing a RFA. However, with the cap we have to go after some of these guys. We have no proven young players in the RFA bracket. The rules have been liberalized and made movement easier. Lets use it.

Salary cap means that contracts are zero sum game. The leafs have to be strategic. If teams match our offers it means less dollars for that team to spend on UFA's were we are dependent for our good players.

Nothing wrong with trying to improve our team with young RFA players. Leafs will soon be emulated in this approach by other teams in our position. Other teams will get angry but eventually it will die down and be business as usual.

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08-24-2005, 10:35 AM
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08-24-2005, 10:37 AM
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Yes, but let's suppose (and obviously this is a very hypothetical suggestion) the Leafs signed either of those players on offer sheets and they did in fact become Leafs, and New Jersey somehow doesn't make the playoffs.

Lou, being a very shrewd business man and looks to be one to hold a grudge decides a little pay back is in line for the playoffs (assuming the Leafs make it), so he looks at likely first round matchups and sees a Toronto/Ottawa series once again in the making. Ottawa is hanging on despite Hasek being on the IR, so Lou sees an opportunity and decides that he will trade Brodeur to the Sens on a conditional basis. A seventh round pick for the rest of the season, or 3 firsts and Spezza if they don't trade him back in the off season.

That's the kind of thing that could happen, and with JFJ being the rookie GM looking for a long term future in the business he doesn't want himself to be looked upon as the guy that screwed another team.

Just MO mind you.

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08-24-2005, 10:42 AM
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Heh.

Expect a trade or two....

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08-24-2005, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
NJ 5 mil over the cap. Time for GM Jr. to act and sign D-men David Hale and Paul Martin to offer sheets at <2 mill. All it will cost leafs is 2nd round draft pick for players who are better prospects than Colaiacovo.
Is this including their cap money for the long term IRL?

If so they needn't worry, because a long term injury doesn't count against the cap.

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08-24-2005, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
Yes, but let's suppose (and obviously this is a very hypothetical suggestion) the Leafs signed either of those players on offer sheets and they did in fact become Leafs, and New Jersey somehow doesn't make the playoffs.

Lou, being a very shrewd business man and looks to be one to hold a grudge decides a little pay back is in line for the playoffs (assuming the Leafs make it), so he looks at likely first round matchups and sees a Toronto/Ottawa series once again in the making. Ottawa is hanging on despite Hasek being on the IR, so Lou sees an opportunity and decides that he will trade Brodeur to the Sens on a conditional basis. A seventh round pick for the rest of the season, or 3 firsts and Spezza if they don't trade him back in the off season.

That's the kind of thing that could happen, and with JFJ being the rookie GM looking for a long term future in the business he doesn't want himself to be looked upon as the guy that screwed another team.

Just MO mind you.
I agree this is a risk. If you assume that Lou will act in the best interests of NJ then he would make this deal regardless of whether we signed his RFA. If you assume that he would make this deal only out of spite, then he is not acting in the Devils best interests. GM's will act in their teams best interests. That is why this type of thing is rare.

Of course there are times when the best interests and screwing the leafs are the same. Example Quebec GM Lacroix trading 10th pick to Leafs to draft Brett Lindros then trading 9th pick to NYIs to screw leafs out of Brett Lindros. Fletcher never harboured a grudge in his next moves as Leaf GM.

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08-24-2005, 10:51 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
I agree this is a risk. If you assume that Lou will act in the best interests of NJ then he would make this deal regardless of whether we signed his RFA. If you assume that he would make this deal only out of spite, then he is not acting in the Devils best interests. GM's will act in their teams best interests. That is why this type of thing is rare.

Of course there are times when the best interests and screwing the leafs are the same. Example Quebec GM Lacroix trading 10th pick to Leafs to draft Brett Lindros then trading 9th pick to NYIs to screw leafs out of Brett Lindros. Fletcher never harboured a grudge in his next moves as Leaf GM.
Of course not he did us a huge favour.

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08-24-2005, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ULF_55
Is this including their cap money for the long term IRL?

If so they needn't worry, because a long term injury doesn't count against the cap.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/feature.asp?fid=6926

They could put Elias on long term and still be a mill over cap and they still haven't signed Hale and Martin.

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08-24-2005, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ACC1224
Of course not he did us a huge favour.
As it turned out he sure did.

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08-24-2005, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
http://tsn.ca/nhl/feature.asp?fid=6926

They could put Elias on long term and still be a mill over cap and they still haven't signed Hale and Martin.
Right ..

Also add Stevens as unsigned if he returns ..

However this is where Freisen comes him .. He has a $2.28 mil price tag after accepting his qualifying offer.

I bet you can almost get him for a song .. He would be a great addition as he is grease lighting fast and that is what Leafs could really use .. IMO ..

All Fergy might have to do is ask Lou Lam for Freisen ..

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08-24-2005, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mess
Right ..

Also add Stevens as unsigned if he returns ..

However this is where Freisen comes him .. He has a $2.28 mil price tag after accepting his qualifying offer.

I bet you can almost get him for a song .. He would be a great addition as he is grease lighting fast and that is what Leafs could really use .. IMO ..

All Fergy might have to do is ask Lou Lam for Freisen ..
I like Freisen. Although at that price he is overvalued. Taken 11th in 94 The leafs had the 10th pick, aquired in the Wendel Clark Mats Sundin trade, they wanted to use it on Brett Lindros. We know the rest of the story.

The leafs could offer to layoff their RFA D-man to get a preferable deal. We'll see if GM Jr. has some wiles to match with Jersey Lou.

Now

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08-24-2005, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess
Right ..

Also add Stevens as unsigned if he returns ..

However this is where Freisen comes him .. He has a $2.28 mil price tag after accepting his qualifying offer.

I bet you can almost get him for a song .. He would be a great addition as he is grease lighting fast and that is what Leafs could really use .. IMO ..

All Fergy might have to do is ask Lou Lam for Freisen ..
It looks like he'll be playing on their second line there in NJ when Elias comes back..

I really think he's a guy JF should look at.

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08-24-2005, 02:30 PM
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Friesen would be a great addition.

If there was a possible way to add Friesen I would love to see it. I don't see NJ wanting him to be in TO but they could find themselves stuck in a jam. Friesen is a proven NHLer and is far enough below the star radar to be an affordable option for a few years. He has been consistantly good for 15-30 goals and was huge for NJ in the 03 play-offs with 10 goals.

Friesen would look wonderful beside Allison or Sundin and gives us that winger we think we need. I am a strong believer that we need to run Sundin, Allison and Lindros up the middle and try to have three potential offensive lines. Our wings may appear a little weak right now but Tucker, O'Neill, Stajan, Ponikarovsky and Antropov should all be able to produce points. I would like to think that Steen or Kilger would be able to lineup with a combination of any one of the above mentioned wingers and one of our centers and not hurt the club. Adding Friesen or another proven winger will allow the leafs a lot more room to gamble and experiment with line options however. I guess I don't really know where Domi fits in either. I don't look at him as a top three line player. I think that Domi is going to want a bigger role but I still feel he is an energy guy that does his best work forechecking and not handling the puck. I think that Antropov and Ponikarovsky should line up together with Allison between them, Lindros Stajan and Tucker would be a very effecent checking line that would also score. Sundin and O'Neill will score with whoever lines up with them and anyone could play with those two and do well.

-------- Sundin O'Neill
Ponikarovsky Allison Antropov
Stajan Lindros Tucker
Domi Wellwood Kilger Steen Belak

I don't see a huge hole in the team. I feel we may be a little thin in the scoring department if either of these two things occur. 1 - Stajan, Antropov and Ponikarovsky don't further their offensive development. 2 - Lindros, Allison and Tucker fail to contribute as much as they have in years past.

Realistically if each line can contribute the follow amount of goals we will be fine and I think each line is overly capable.

Line 1 - 75 - Sundin and O'Neill 30 each, their other linemate nets 15.
Line 2 - 50 - Allison 20 and Antro & Ponik score 15 each.
Line 3 - 45 - Tucker, Lindros and Stajan 15 each.
Line 4 - 30 - The rest of the lineup should be able to contribute 30 combined.
Defense - 25 - McCabe is good for 10 and that leaves a lot of room for others.

225 Goals For and we scored 242 last year. I don't think that I pegged anyone far over their potential.

I think that the leafs are in good shape with the need of a fine tuning and maybe a mild shakeup.

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08-24-2005, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
NJ 5 mil over the cap. Time for GM Jr. to act and sign D-men David Hale and Paul Martin to offer sheets at <2 mill. All it will cost leafs is 2nd round draft pick for players who are better prospects than Colaiacovo.
Just thought I'd mention that according to the NHLPA site, Martin is signed for this year for $502,000.

http://www.nhlpa.com/WebStats/Player...p?OIDTeam=9486

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08-24-2005, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by devils1983
Just thought I'd mention that according to the NHLPA site, Martin is signed for this year for $502,000.

http://www.nhlpa.com/WebStats/Player...p?OIDTeam=9486
I was going by the TSN website. I haven't seen his signing announced.


http://tsn.ca/nhl/feature.asp?fid=6926

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08-24-2005, 10:30 PM
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While I don't think the Devils will trade with us, someone is going to benefit from their situation of being over the cap. Especially when you look at this off-season where teams in similar situations have traded good players for conditional picks or given them away for future considerations.

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08-25-2005, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
Yes, but let's suppose (and obviously this is a very hypothetical suggestion) the Leafs signed either of those players on offer sheets and they did in fact become Leafs, and New Jersey somehow doesn't make the playoffs.

Lou, being a very shrewd business man and looks to be one to hold a grudge decides a little pay back is in line for the playoffs (assuming the Leafs make it), so he looks at likely first round matchups and sees a Toronto/Ottawa series once again in the making. Ottawa is hanging on despite Hasek being on the IR, so Lou sees an opportunity and decides that he will trade Brodeur to the Sens on a conditional basis. A seventh round pick for the rest of the season, or 3 firsts and Spezza if they don't trade him back in the off season.

That's the kind of thing that could happen, and with JFJ being the rookie GM looking for a long term future in the business he doesn't want himself to be looked upon as the guy that screwed another team.

Just MO mind you.
In a fantasy league, perhaps. In real life, Lou wouldnt want to stand at the podium explaining to his fans that he traded Brodeur for a 7th to a rival because of a grudge.

These men did not get to where they are by being petty little people. It's business.

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08-25-2005, 01:16 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Kurtz
In a fantasy league, perhaps. In real life, Lou wouldnt want to stand at the podium explaining to his fans that he traded Brodeur for a 7th to a rival because of a grudge.

These men did not get to where they are by being petty little people. It's business.
You haven't been following hockey to long eh ??

Do a google search of Martin Lapointe to Boston from Detroit and see if that was not personal.

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08-25-2005, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
NJ 5 mil over the cap. Time for GM Jr. to act and sign D-men David Hale and Paul Martin to offer sheets at <2 mill. All it will cost leafs is 2nd round draft pick for players who are better prospects than Colaiacovo.
Patience is virtue. Impulse often leads to disaster. Making an offer sheet to a restricted free agent in exchange for draft picks at the present time would be an incredibly bad business and hockey move for the Maple Leafs.

Any bonuses/incentives earned on a 1 year "past injury" contract, (such as Allison's), that push a team over the salary cap are allowed BUT then any amount over the cap MUST count on the following season's cap and can't be pushed back any further. In addition, with the NHL lockout lasting over a year, the interest level in hockey has shrunk to minuscule levels in the USA (especially where I live in southern California an area that is supposed to support TWO teams --Kings and Ducks--with less money than Toronto). The cap for the 2006-2007 will be set based on the revenue earned by the entire league in 2005-2006. Since many markets will suffer the effects of the lockout (most, if not all, in the USA) the exact level of the 2006-2007 cap is quite a mystery to all. It could be higher or lower. And if it is lower then teams that max. themselves out on this years cap will be faced with the quandary of being over the cap the following season without any roster changes. Those teams will be forced to trade players away at cut rate prices since other GMs will know that they are being "forced" into the trade. This is a situation the Leafs want to avoid at all costs.

Ferguson being the intelligent businessman that he is, has budgeted Allison's complete 3 million in bonuses for this years cap. And that is very smart business sense. The Maple Leafs signed Allison with the intention that he would have a breakout season. If the Leafs are wrong then Allison will be gone after this year. But if Ferguson is right then Allison will earn more than 1.5 million this season up to a max of possibly 4.5 million. They EXPECT Allison to earn some (hopefully all) of those bonuses since that means he is having an awesome year. So Ferguson BUDGETS for them in this year's cap. Furthermore, the new CBA states that any player who earns those bonus has them rolled into his MINIMUM salary for the following season. So if Allison were to earn say 2 million of the 3 million in bonus offered to him his salary would be 3.5 million. (1.5+2) Then the Leafs would be required to sign him at a MINIMUM of 3.5 million the following season. And if the 2 million in bonuses were to run the Leafs over the cap then Allison would cost the leafs 5.5 million in cap space (3.5+2) in 2006-2007. That would be an incredibly horrible scenario for the Leafs to get caught in.

For these reasons the Leafs actually only have 3 million in cap space. Some of that money needs to be left as a buffer for two reasons. One, in case the cap for 2006-2007 is significantly lower. And more importantly to give Ferguson room to maneuvers at the trade deadline. In a salary cap world "flexibility" is paramount in building a winning franchise. There will be more information available to Ferguson in February then now about what the Leafs may or may not need to make a run at the cup.

Ferguson may indeed leave the cap space at 3 million or sign more players. But acquiring defencemen is NOT what the Leafs need at this point. The leafs defense is solid and more than ready to go for this season. McCabe, Kaberle, Berg, Klee and Khavanov all have one way contracts. There is only one spot open on the roster. The last slot will go to Pilar or Colaiacovo.

Here is what hockey's Future has to say about the blue chip prospect.

Quote:
Carlo is a solid all around defenseman with no significant weaknesses in his game. He knows his own zone well, and is often found killing penalties. He is great at the transition game, getting the puck up the boards out of his zone and to the rushing forwards. He is also very mobile, able to join the rushes and read the play well. He has recently become known more for his ability to quarterback the powerplay. His no-hesitation passing often catch the goalie out of position. He also has a booming shot that rides the ice making it easy for teammates to tip the shots. Colaiacovo is very competitive, and has the potential to fill a leadership role down the road......

.....Colaiacovo has performed admirably for the Baby Leafs playing heavy minutes in all game situations, and should be ready for full-time NHL duty when it resumes.
Fast and mobile. Perfect for the new "no obstruction" NHL (hold your breath). And in case for some off reason Carlo isn't ready then Pilar will step and fill that role more than adequately. The leafs defense is ready. Drop the puck. GO LEAFS GO.

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08-25-2005, 09:03 AM
  #25
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Pithy please. Patience like the panthers. I prefer the patience of the last 6 years of leafdom. Hale is a better prospect than Colaiacovo.

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