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Evander Kane to Philly

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Old
05-01-2014, 04:42 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Good lord talk about over valuing your players, lol. Kane isn't worth half that Much and that's the truth. Hell, Kane isn't even worth as much as Wayne Simmonds.
That is cool, and is simply your own opinion as well.

How many other 22 year-old power forwards are potentially available in trade that hit, can fight, that skate like the wind, that work their ass off every shift and compete hard, have already scored 200 points in their NHL career, and have a 30-goal pedigree (Kane has already scored 30 goals one season and was on the same pace in the lockout year), and are signed to a good deal for another 4 years? You should probably trade for that player instead. What? There aren't any comparable players available? Well then, I'd bet any GM that had one to trade could probably command a sizable premium for such a player and that many GMs' would be competing to up the ante to acquire his contract.

Quit whining just because you either can't understand or afford the price.

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05-01-2014, 05:24 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That is cool, and is simply your own opinion as well.

How many other 22 year-old power forwards are potentially available in trade that hit, can fight, that skate like the wind, that work their ass off every shift and compete hard, have already scored 200 points in their NHL career, and have a 30-goal pedigree (Kane has already scored 30 goals one season and was on the same pace in the lockout year), and are signed to a good deal for another 4 years? You should probably trade for that player instead. What? There aren't any comparable players available? Well then, I'd bet any GM that had one to trade could probably command a sizable premium for such a player and that many GMs' would be competing to up the ante to acquire his contract.

Quit whining just because you either can't understand or afford the price.
Having a different opinion than you isn't whining. He's not correct about Kane not being worth half that much (nor do I feel you're correct in demanding a #2C, #2D, #1 D prospect, and a second; the proper valuation lies somewhere in the middle, and probably a strong majority of the people in this thread acknowledge that), but just because you don't like what he has to say doesn't mean he's not free to say it.

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05-01-2014, 05:47 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Good lord talk about over valuing your players, lol. Kane isn't worth half that Much and that's the truth. Hell, Kane isn't even worth as much as Wayne Simmonds.
...just for a bit of perspective on this, at the same age (22) here are the comparisons between Simmonds and Kane:

Simmonds: 240 games, 39 goals, 54 assists, 93 points (0.39 ppg)
Kane: 324 games, 99 goals, 101 assists, 200 points (0.62 ppg)

Simmonds didn't match Kane's most productive year until he was 25 years old.

I love Simmonds, but you are comparing a player at the peak of his productivity to a player that has already been better and still has substantial room for improvement.

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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
So apparantly Kane is worth more than what Richards, Seguin, Carter, J. Staal got traded for. The more you know.
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Yup, and all without having accomplished half as much too.
Around last year's draft (June 2013) the HFBoards was flooded with trade proposals of Seguin for Kane. What changed? Seguin blossomed with a good season and Kane had a year shortened by injury.

All things considered, I think that Kane is definitely worth more than Richards, Carter or J. Staal. I'll bet the hockey management at the LA Kings, Canes and Jets all agree on that.

J. Staal is probably closest, but remember that when he was traded he was coming up to UFA status in a year so his value was already diminished.


Last edited by Whileee: 05-01-2014 at 05:52 PM.
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Old
05-01-2014, 10:14 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That is cool, and is simply your own opinion as well.

How many other 22 year-old power forwards are potentially available in trade that hit, can fight, that skate like the wind, that work their ass off every shift and compete hard, have already scored 200 points in their NHL career, and have a 30-goal pedigree (Kane has already scored 30 goals one season and was on the same pace in the lockout year), and are signed to a good deal for another 4 years? You should probably trade for that player instead. What? There aren't any comparable players available? Well then, I'd bet any GM that had one to trade could probably command a sizable premium for such a player and that many GMs' would be competing to up the ante to acquire his contract.

Quit whining just because you either can't understand or afford the price.
Lol, somebody had their panties in a twist. Perhaps you missed the part where we already have the EXACTA player you are describing, his name is Wayne Simmonds.

Simmonds had a better season than Kane this year and almost identical last year all while doing from the 2nd line with a very young B Schenn as his center.

Kanes value is very close to that of Simmonds and I'd bet that if you made a pole, more people would take Simmonds over Kane. I could be wrong but I am certain that most everyone would say their values are about equal.

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05-01-2014, 10:20 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Luke Schenn = RHD

Jets don't need any RHD... whatsoever.

Brayden Schenn
Braydon Coburn
Samuel Morin
+2nd round pick

Might get you Kane.

If you want our young star power-forward, one signed for four more years on a fair deal, then the cost will be punitive.
Crazy talk . I am not a Flyers fan and i can say there a lot of overvaluing of Kane and a lot of undervaluing of this package . Plus LOL "might " any GM with 1/2 a brain would take this and run far and fast

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05-01-2014, 10:34 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
...just for a bit of perspective on this, at the same age (22) here are the comparisons between Simmonds and Kane:

Simmonds: 240 games, 39 goals, 54 assists, 93 points (0.39 ppg)
Kane: 324 games, 99 goals, 101 assists, 200 points (0.62 ppg)

Simmonds didn't match Kane's most productive year until he was 25 years old.

I love Simmonds, but you are comparing a player at the peak of his productivity to a player that has already been better and still has substantial room for improvement.




Around last year's draft (June 2013) the HFBoards was flooded with trade proposals of Seguin for Kane. What changed? Seguin blossomed with a good season and Kane had a year shortened by injury.

All things considered, I think that Kane is definitely worth more than Richards, Carter or J. Staal. I'll bet the hockey management at the LA Kings, Canes and Jets all agree on that.

J. Staal is probably closest, but remember that when he was traded he was coming up to UFA status in a year so his value was already diminished.
MORE THAN JEFF CARTER????

Are you kidding me???? You can't possibly be serious. When Carter was traded he was just coming off the ONLY 3 seasons where he was on the top line in Philly and he posted an 80+ point season and two 60 point season in those 3 years with one 46 goal season two seasons where he scored more goals than any season for Kane whether you "pro-rate" it for 82 games or not (and ps, if you pro-rate Carters seasons it's an even bigger gap).

When has Kane EVER hit the 60 point plateau??? Oh yeah, NEVER!!! Kanes best season at the age of 22 is only 4 points better than Carters best season by the age of 22 and Carter played on the 2nd or 3rd line and NEVER saw 1st unit PP time until after he was 22.

So yeah, it's debatable that Kane at 22 is better than Carter when he was 22 but it's certainly NOT debatable that Kane at 22 holds anything even close to the value of Carter when he was traded. All this and we aren't even including contract values of Carter's contract at the time of his trade >>>>> Kanes current contract.

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05-01-2014, 10:38 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
All things considered, I think that Kane is definitely worth more than Richards, Carter or J. Staal. I'll bet the hockey management at the LA Kings, Canes and Jets all agree on that.

J. Staal is probably closest, but remember that when he was traded he was coming up to UFA status in a year so his value was already diminished.
This doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I think most neutral fans (and the returns) would suggest that, at the time of their respective trades, Staal was less valuable than Richards or Carter. You say Kane is worth more than all three (based on what?), then say he is closest to the least valuable guy?

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05-01-2014, 10:41 PM
  #183
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Evander Kane is a second line winger.

You're not getting a second line center, a first pairing d and a top prospect for him, even if he has a lot of potential.

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05-02-2014, 12:32 AM
  #184
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Realistically, the difference between Brayden Schenn and Evander Kane is probably a 2nd round pick.

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05-02-2014, 09:38 AM
  #185
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I would say then realistically Kane will never be traded to Philly

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05-02-2014, 11:50 AM
  #186
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Hypothetically there are 2 possible outcomes, Kane will be traded and you'll hate the return or he wont be moved(and im sure WPG fans would be fine with keeping him). I just dont see him returning the embarrassment of riches most fans want him to, hes a fantastic player though.

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05-02-2014, 01:17 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Natepollock92 View Post
Hypothetically there are 2 possible outcomes, Kane will be traded and you'll hate the return or he wont be moved(and im sure WPG fans would be fine with keeping him). I just dont see him returning the embarrassment of riches most fans want him to, hes a fantastic player though.
This is spot on. He is a great young player but will not get the rich return a majority of jets fan think he can. I highly assume we will not be trading him anytime soon.

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05-02-2014, 01:17 PM
  #188
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Plus if Kane is anything like Richards or Carter then he would be shipped out of Philly in to time.

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05-02-2014, 01:34 PM
  #189
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This is spot on. He is a great young player but will not get the rich return a majority of jets fan think he can. I highly assume we will not be trading him anytime soon.
It is not that we expect a high return for him; it is that we do not believe that the Jets plan to trade him, so by extension we are saying it would take a very high return to cause them to do so.

To the poster that claimed earlier that Kane is a second-line winger, until Scheifele went down with injury the Scheifele/Kane/Frolik line was on the cusp of becoming the Jets first line, they were basically either line 1a or 1b each night shortly after Maurice took over behind the bench. Kane will probably score 30 or more this coming season on Scheifele's wing - unless someone pays the Jets an overpayment to acquire him in trade. That is kind of the point here; they'd be crazy to trade a 22 y/o power forward as talented as Kane and due that he is signed for 4 more seasons - given that Kane fits ideally in with the young core group they are currently in the process of building.

To anyone that thinks he can be had cheaply in trade, you are mistaken. If you want to own a Ferrari, at the end of the day you have to step up to the cashier's window and pay an exorbitant price to own one.

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05-02-2014, 02:13 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
MORE THAN JEFF CARTER????

Are you kidding me???? You can't possibly be serious. When Carter was traded he was just coming off the ONLY 3 seasons where he was on the top line in Philly and he posted an 80+ point season and two 60 point season in those 3 years with one 46 goal season two seasons where he scored more goals than any season for Kane whether you "pro-rate" it for 82 games or not (and ps, if you pro-rate Carters seasons it's an even bigger gap).

When has Kane EVER hit the 60 point plateau??? Oh yeah, NEVER!!! Kanes best season at the age of 22 is only 4 points better than Carters best season by the age of 22 and Carter played on the 2nd or 3rd line and NEVER saw 1st unit PP time until after he was 22.

So yeah, it's debatable that Kane at 22 is better than Carter when he was 22 but it's certainly NOT debatable that Kane at 22 holds anything even close to the value of Carter when he was traded. All this and we aren't even including contract values of Carter's contract at the time of his trade >>>>> Kanes current contract.
I think that Kane's value is closer to Carter's than you do, so I guess we'll just have to disagree. The basis for my opinion is that I think that GMs value potential and upside highly, and Kane is still seen as having a lot of room for growth.

I do think that Kane's value today is higher than Carter, Richards or J. Staal, all things considered.

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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
This doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I think most neutral fans (and the returns) would suggest that, at the time of their respective trades, Staal was less valuable than Richards or Carter. You say Kane is worth more than all three (based on what?), then say he is closest to the least valuable guy?
I think that Kane would return more in a trade today than any of those three based on a combination of age, performance and potential. I think that J. Staal is more valuable today than Richards (for sure) and Carter (arguable). That's based on age, performance and potential.

I don't expect everyone to agree, and of course I could be over-valuing Kane. It doesn't mean that I agree with outrageous trade proposals involving huge returns for Kane.

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05-02-2014, 02:42 PM
  #191
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Yeah I would not deal Kane for fair value with so much time left on his contract....It would take a large over payment if Im Jets brass to deal him in the next few seasons.....

He has always played with junk line mates and just at the point when we have a C and a winger to make good decent line we trade him away? If at 22 he stalls in his develpment he is a 25-30 goal power forward......If his game progresses who knows!

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05-02-2014, 02:57 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
It is not that we expect a high return for him; it is that we do not believe that the Jets plan to trade him, so by extension we are saying it would take a very high return to cause them to do so.

To the poster that claimed earlier that Kane is a second-line winger, until Scheifele went down with injury the Scheifele/Kane/Frolik line was on the cusp of becoming the Jets first line, they were basically either line 1a or 1b each night shortly after Maurice took over behind the bench. Kane will probably score 30 or more this coming season on Scheifele's wing - unless someone pays the Jets an overpayment to acquire him in trade. That is kind of the point here; they'd be crazy to trade a 22 y/o power forward as talented as Kane and due that he is signed for 4 more seasons - given that Kane fits ideally in with the young core group they are currently in the process of building.

To anyone that thinks he can be had cheaply in trade, you are mistaken. If you want to own a Ferrari, at the end of the day you have to step up to the cashier's window and pay an exorbitant price to own one.
a ferrari. That was pretty good. He is far from a Ferrari imo. I know we like to pump his tires alot but after watching him play every game for the last three season I see a solid developing player but nothing near a "ferrari" maybe a Ford Mustang at the moment

I also agree that I do not see us trading him but I look at the trade forums here and I see such high evaluations it is cringe worthy. JMO though! you are more than entitled to yours.

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05-02-2014, 03:19 PM
  #193
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Not sure if posted or little off but what about, Brayden Schenn, Read and 2nd or 1st for Kane.

Or Schenn, Laughten and ? For Kane 2nd

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05-02-2014, 03:57 PM
  #194
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Not sure if posted or little off but what about, Brayden Schenn, Read and 2nd or 1st for Kane.

Or Schenn, Laughten and ? For Kane 2nd
Under the hypothetical assumption that Kane has asked management for a trade, I have posted I would consider the first one myself. But I am a fan of Read and his versatility. I'm not quite as bullish on Schenn as others.

Might get ignored in the let's bash Jets fans for wanting a lot for Kane meme in here though.

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05-02-2014, 04:19 PM
  #195
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Realistically, the difference between Brayden Schenn and Evander Kane is probably a 2nd round pick.
...hmmmmm... let me go check out the Flyers' discussion board on Schenn and see what they really think of him.

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05-02-2014, 05:16 PM
  #196
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Personally I think it would be stupid for the Jets to trade Kane. He is EXACTLY the type of player they should be building their offense around. I think that the ONLY way he gets traded is if he basically forces them to do so or if management feels there are serious character issues (and I don't by it) like he's not good in the locker room or serious off ice issues.

Kane is a great young player. He's a star in this league, not a super star (at least not yet) but he is a star. However, if the Jets do trade him for whatever reason I think it will be a deal similar to those of Richards/Carter/Staal/Ryan. If we could get him for say Raffl, Laughton and a 1st (about as close as we could come to what we got for Richards) I'd be all over it. However, if the price was anywhere close to what some asked for (Schenn + Coburn + two 1sts) then it's just not worth the price (and no team would gut their future like that for Kane).

I think Kane is more valuable than Coburn in a trade but honestly I wouldn't trade Coburn for Kane straight up because Coburn is much much more valuable to our team than what adding Kane would be.

I've been a defender of both Kane and Bogo numerous times but sometimes you Jets fans get carried away with what you think he's worth (lol and honestly EVERY fan base is guilty of over valuing their players, in a pole just a month or so ago there were numerous Flyers fans who said that they wouldn't trade Couturier straight up for Shea Weber, I just shook my head).

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05-02-2014, 06:28 PM
  #197
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another season went by and kane is still viewed as being a young player that has ALOT of potential, which inflates his value on HF. in a couple of seasons jets fans wont have anymore excuses because he wont be young anymore, at least not by NHL standards.

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05-02-2014, 07:38 PM
  #198
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another season went by and kane is still viewed as being a young player that has ALOT of potential, which inflates his value on HF. in a couple of seasons jets fans wont have anymore excuses because he wont be young anymore, at least not by NHL standards.
And that's fair. If he hasn't become more than a 50 point player,then we don't have a leg to stand on. I will eat my own words. Kane has had NO ONE to play with during most of his time here.

He has never had a center that most teams would have to think twice about before acquiring.

During this past season, he finally was set up with Scheifele and Wheeler. That line was MONEY for us and quickly became our first line. Injuries tore that line apart but we got a glimpse into the future of this team and it was awesome to see.

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05-03-2014, 10:02 AM
  #199
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And that's fair. If he hasn't become more than a 50 point player,then we don't have a leg to stand on. I will eat my own words. Kane has had NO ONE to play with during most of his time here.

He has never had a center that most teams would have to think twice about before acquiring.

During this past season, he finally was set up with Scheifele and Wheeler. That line was MONEY for us and quickly became our first line. Injuries tore that line apart but we got a glimpse into the future of this team and it was awesome to see.
Exactly this...

The Kane-Scheifele-Wheeler line was dominant in the middle part of the schedule before Kane and then Scheifele went down with injuries. I think that the Jets should hang onto Kane and give him a full season playing with a good center. Actually, former coach Claude Noel said the same thing, and indicated that Scheifele would be a good center for Kane in the future.

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05-23-2014, 05:32 PM
  #200
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Why Evander Kane to the Flyers makes no sense:

http://thehockeywriters.com/evander-...-philadelphia/

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