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Old
08-24-2005, 08:42 PM
  #1
ChrisKreider20
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Overrated Teams/ Underated Teams/Players

Who is what?

Underrated

New York Rangers- If you examine the roster player for player it is not as pathetic as some think.
Montreal- Underrated every year; will just get better
Florida- Signings will get them in the playoffs
Islanders- I think Yashin and Satan will play well.

Jagr- People forget the kind of stats he put up before 02-03. even in 01-02 he put up like 77 points in 65 games.

Sundin- Not given enough credit. He puts up 80+ points consistantly

Leetch- Just his defensive game.

Poti- He may not be amazing but people treat him like he's Aki Berg.

Overrated

Toronto- Let to many players go, picked up some good but not great players, some being question marks. Belfour is old and may soon lose his flair.

New Jersey- Good defensive team, but with the intent of the cba to disable the trap they are in trouble.

Calgary- One hit wonder with Limited Depth.

Tampa Bay- Goaltending is very important and that is what they lack.

Colorado- Lost best defensive player and best forward + Selanne and Kariya.

Pittsburgh- People expect 120 points of of Crosby his first year. I expect 50-60 and then we will see Forsberg type stats eventually or perhaps higher but don't expect the playoffs just yet because there defense sucks.

Phili- No Wingers. Teams need Wingers. Even the Ranger's have more wing depth than Phili.

Iginla- Great Player...but he has NEVER cracked 100 points and only had 73 last year. People treat him like he's the old Jagr. Not even comparable.


Last edited by ChrisKreider20: 08-24-2005 at 08:50 PM.
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Old
08-24-2005, 08:51 PM
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Good start for a thread... good post... I agree all the way for your teams.

add Buffalo to the underrated.. they may not make the playoffs but they are no washington

But Iginla is more than just a 73 point guy, He's a leader, a fighter, scores goals, sets up plays, checks, grinds. He can do it all, and in my opinion the best guy to build a team around in the league.

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Old
08-24-2005, 08:56 PM
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How does Calgary have limited depth?

Overrated: Edmonton. Pronger is an improvement for sure, but having Horcoff as your second line center is not a good thing.

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08-24-2005, 08:58 PM
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Using "sure, but"'s isn't exactly convincing.

I will say that Nashville is underrated.

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Old
08-24-2005, 08:59 PM
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ChrisKreider20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
How does Calgary have limited depth?

Overrated: Edmonton. Pronger is an improvement for sure, but having Horcoff as your second line center is not a good thing.
They're not stacked is more what I mean...people count them as a shoe-in for the cup finals. Amonte isn't incredible and there LW is not strong/ Langkow is a second line centre. They defense is pretty deep and Kipper needs to prove he's not J.S Giguere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aymand
Good start for a thread... good post... I agree all the way for your teams.

add Buffalo to the underrated.. they may not make the playoffs but they are no washington

But Iginla is more than just a 73 point guy, He's a leader, a fighter, scores goals, sets up plays, checks, grinds. He can do it all, and in my opinion the best guy to build a team around in the league.
I agree he does all those but when it comes down to it Calgary was a bunch of checkers last year with a strong defensive system. The finesse teams will do better in the new NHL. He may have those great quality's but he doesn't score like a superstar like guys like Jagr, Bure, Forsberg, Sakic did. That makes him the best goal-scoring captain in the NHL but not the best player.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:05 PM
  #6
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Underrated:

[My Favorite Team]: In this case my favorite team actually is underrated--the Isles were a top 10 offense in the NHL last season and that was without Yashin or Parrish for much of the year. Satan will only help Yashin's game and York for a seemingly far over the hill Peca seems like a steal to me. The defense is a question mark but they should be a definate playoff contender.

Montreal Canadiens: I don't care much for them but I have to agree with Unseenpunk that they have performed like one of the top teams in the Eastern Conference and should be treated as such.

Patrick Elias: A vastly underrated all-around player, I think that he should be looked at as an elite forward in the NHL--not a guy who is good because he plays on the Devils. Martin Brodeur has little bearing on his success.


Overrated:

Atlanta Thrashers: People act like 3 good players in Kovalchuk, Hossa (formerly Heatley, but puts up similar numbers) and Lehtonen (an unproven rookie) will put them over the hump and into the playoffs in a much improved Eastern Conference. Not so fast--this team has nowhere near the depth or the defense to defend Lehtonen and make the playoffs.

Florida Panthers: Like the Thrashers, people seem to think that just because they added a few veterans in front of Luongo they are a playoff team. They are too inconsistent and lack the high end talent of their playoff competitors to make it to the postseason in my opinion.

Bill Guerin: No longer plays like a true power forward and should no longer be reffered to as such. He is just a decent scorer with some anger management problems on the downside of his career.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:10 PM
  #7
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Overrated:

Pitts, chi, bos, philly

free agency does not always = cup, just because teams are doing it more frequently now doesn't mean that logic no longer applies.
(although i think all of those teams save Chicago will make the playoffs)

Underrated:
Nashville: because hey... they're nashville!
New jersey, toronto : somehow these orgs have found a way to win in the past 10 years and by gum i dont think its gonna change
montreal: core is approaching prime, added a 3rd line, poised to do some damage.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:15 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
How does Calgary have limited depth?

Overrated: Edmonton. Pronger is an improvement for sure, but having Horcoff as your second line center is not a good thing.
Any reasoning behind your opinion? Feel free to convince those that regularly watch Horcoff do well against opposition.

Underrated would be Nashville, overrated in my mind is Philly, although they could prove me wrong.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:21 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry I
Underrated:
Atlanta Thrashers: People act like 3 good players in Kovalchuk, Hossa (formerly Heatley, but puts up similar numbers) and Lehtonen (an unproven rookie) will put them over the hump and into the playoffs in a much improved Eastern Conference. Not so fast--this team has nowhere near the depth or the defense to defend Lehtonen and make the playoffs.
Except they also have added DeVries, Mellanby, Modry, Holik and Coburn as well. Thats a lot of solid veteran depth, with two proven Superstars, Probably the best prospect after Crosby, and an excellent NHL ready defenseman. They are the most improved team this year, even more than Pittsburgh IMO. Also, they didnt have Healtley for almost all of last season, so adding Hossa isnt just exchanging one star for another, its adding one.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:26 PM
  #10
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One guy that has been underrated his whole career is Ron Francis. Just look at his stats.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:27 PM
  #11
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I'd say Toronto is underrated right now. I would be stunned if they didn't make the playoffs, to be honest.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:28 PM
  #12
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underrated
Minnesota
Chicago

Marion Gaborik

Overrated
Philly
Florida

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:28 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry I
[My Favorite Team]: In this case my favorite team actually is underrated--the Isles were a top 10 offense in the NHL last season and that was without Yashin or Parrish for much of the year. Satan will only help Yashin's game and York for a seemingly far over the hill Peca seems like a steal to me. The defense is a question mark but they should be a definate playoff contender.
We were actually top 5 in scoring, but who is counting

This years Islanders are a tough call. I figure our scoring will be even better(especially if Yashin clicks with Satan) but the main question is, will our Goals Against be bottom 10 or not. IF we stay above that mark i say we will make the playoff, if we are in the worse 10, we don't.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseenpunk
Phili- No Wingers. Teams need Wingers. Even the Ranger's have more wing depth than Phili.
Mmmkay. Because guys like Gagne, Knuble, Carter, Kapanen, etc are all garbage. The Flyers have arguably the best center depth in the league, and will produce more than enough with how good their team defense will be. But thanks anyway.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:35 PM
  #15
ChrisKreider20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Mmmkay. Because guys like Gagne, Knuble, Carter, Kapanen, etc are all garbage. The Flyers have arguably the best center depth in the league, and will produce more than enough with how good their team defense will be. But thanks anyway.
Gagne's good but not great...he hasn't proven much yet.

Knuble = overrated. Many 2nd tier players could pick up points on a line with Thornton and Murray

Kapanen's good= Just no scorer

Carter is a centre.

How will Forsberg be able to pick up so many assists if noone can finish. They need a top winger fast, on both sides.

There defense isn't a shoe in either. Hatcher has had problems lately and his physical play may not work as well in the New NHL.

I do agree with 1 thing they do have arguably the best centre depth in the league but the wings are lacking and they lack snipers and Knuble is not that good. I make my point/

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:36 PM
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I know I'm going to hanged for this, but I'm a Sens fan and we might be overrated.

I see a lot of predictions of us near the top of the conference. Quite frankly, I just want to make the playoffs with as many healthy guys as possible and then give it another go.

-Hasek is a future Hall of Famer but his portrait is already gathering dust in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Emery has done pretty much all there is to do in the AHL but he only has 5 games of NHL experience.

-Jacques Martin couldn't beat the Leafs but he turned the league's laughing stock into a powerhouse. Murray doesn't have quite the same pedigree.

-White and Bonk weren't particularly stellar centres, Ottawa being rather weak up the middle, but they were pretty much #1 and #2 for the last few seasons. Spezza is a step up, but he's still an unknown quantity. Is Fisher healthy enough for an 80 game season? Can Smolinski play on the 2nd line?

-Ottawa has depth, but much of it is young now, as opposed to being more veteran like in past years. This is good in terms of combating the cap constraints, but injuries to the older players could make this team very young, very fast.

I think it's more a matter of Ottawa fans getting used to a lack of change, or at least slow change, with respect to our franchise. This incarnation is going to be quite a bit different from the gang that suited up in 2003-2004.

On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:38 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Mmmkay. Because guys like Gagne, Knuble, Carter, Kapanen, etc are all garbage. The Flyers have arguably the best center depth in the league, and will produce more than enough with how good their team defense will be. But thanks anyway.
Hey, if you can't analyze your own team for flaws, that's pretty sad.

It could be a lot worse than only having 1 top-flight established winger on your team.

You could have a goalie with a history of groin problems.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
I know I'm going to hanged for this, but I'm a Sens fan and we might be overrated.

I see a lot of predictions of us near the top of the conference. Quite frankly, I just want to make the playoffs with as many healthy guys as possible and then give it another go.

-Hasek is a future Hall of Famer but his portrait is already gathering dust in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Emery has done pretty much all there is to do in the AHL but he only has 5 games of NHL experience.

-Jacques Martin couldn't beat the Leafs but he turned the league's laughing stock into a powerhouse. Murray doesn't have quite the same pedigree.

-White and Bonk weren't particularly stellar centres, Ottawa being rather weak up the middle, but they were pretty much #1 and #2 for the last few seasons. Spezza is a step up, but he's still an unknown quantity. Is Fisher healthy enough for an 80 game season? Can Smolinski play on the 2nd line?

-Ottawa has depth, but much of it is young now, as opposed to being more veteran like in past years. This is good in terms of combating the cap constraints, but injuries to the older players could make this team very young, very fast.

I think it's more a matter of Ottawa fans getting used to a lack of change, or at least slow change, with respect to our franchise. This incarnation is going to be quite a bit different from the gang that suited up in 2003-2004.

On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing.
IMO there centre depth will depend on Spezza. You could be pleasantly surprised.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseenpunk
IMO there centre depth will depend on Spezza. You could be pleasantly surprised.
I'm expecting 75-90 points from Spezza.

But you never know.

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08-24-2005, 09:39 PM
  #20
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Underrated-Toronto. We lose Nieuwy and Roberts, replace them with Lindros and Allison. We lose Nolan, we replace him with O'Neill. Those are the only guys we lost that actually mattered to our team last year and they were replaced.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:40 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
I know I'm going to hanged for this, but I'm a Sens fan and we might be overrated.

-Hasek is a future Hall of Famer but his portrait is already gathering dust in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Emery has done pretty much all there is to do in the AHL but he only has 5 games of NHL experience.
way i look at it, if Hasek plays average, Ottawa should be near the top in points this season(but probably will lose early in the playoffs). Anything better makes them a stanley cup contender, anything worse makes them finishing 5-8th

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:41 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseenpunk
Gagne's good but not great...he hasn't proven much yet.

Knuble = overrated. Many 2nd tier players could pick up points on a line with Thornton and Murray

Kapanen's good= Just no scorer

Carter is a centre.

How will Forsberg be able to pick up so many assists if noone can finish. They need a top winger fast, on both sides.
Carter will be playing on the wing, with Peter Forsberg.

Gagne and Carter are both very good skaters. Gagne scored 33 goals playing with Keith Primeau, who's hands are made of wood, so he could very well score 40 goals this season. Jeff Carter is one of the top ten prospects in the world, and showed last season in the AHL that he's ready for the big leagues. Playing with Forsberg will allow him to net plenty of points, especially for a rookie.

The second line will be Knuble, Handzus, and someone else on the right side, maybe Radivojevic. Both Knuble and Handzus will score 20 goals, barring any injuries. Radivojevic is the wild card, but most Flyers fans believe he'll be good for at least 15 goals, he very likely could net 20 with his increased ice time. Let's say for kicks Radivojevic scores 20 goals, that would mean that every player in the Flyers top six could pot 20 or more - and you're going to tell me that they don't have enough offense? Even if Radio doesn't score 20, that would still be an estimated 5 20 goal scorers, which most teams don't have. That's plenty of offense for a team that'll be as stingy defensively as any in the league. This is a Hitchcock team, they're not the Pens - the Flyers will not need to win every game 6-5.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:45 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
Hey, if you can't analyze your own team for flaws, that's pretty sad.
Hey, if you can't read what people post, that's pretty sad.

I never said they had the best wing depth in the league, in fact it's not great at all. However, when you move Carter to the wing, and estimate Radivojevic to have a good year, it starts to look pretty good. The Flyers real weakness is the amount of pressure they're putting on unproven players, not the amount of talent they have on the wing. If Carter struggles as a rookie, and Radivojevic can't keep up, they're up a creek without a paddle.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:51 PM
  #24
ChrisKreider20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Hey, if you can't read what people post, that's pretty sad.

I never said they had the best wing depth in the league, in fact it's not great at all. However, when you move Carter to the wing, and estimate Radivojevic to have a good year, it starts to look pretty good. The Flyers real weakness is the amount of pressure they're putting on unproven players, not the amount of talent they have on the wing. If Carter struggles as a rookie, and Radivojevic can't keep up, they're up a creek without a paddle.
How do you know Carter can play the wing well? And Radijovic, I doubt he'll net over 30 points. You be'll surprised at how badly Knuble will do without his boston pals.

At least we can agree that one team is overrated. The caps.
People actually think they'll get 15 points.

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Old
08-24-2005, 09:58 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
The Flyers real weakness is the amount of pressure they're putting on unproven players, not the amount of talent they have on the wing.
Really? And where do most of those unproven players play?

You're agreeing violently with me.

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