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Old
10-03-2003, 10:23 AM
  #1
WinstonSmith
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Waiver Picks

A list of other notable moves made on Friday:

Pittsburgh takes D Nolan Baumgartner from Vancouver
Nashville takes F Wade Brookbank from Ottawa
Atlanta takes F Serge Aubin from Colorado
Montreal takes F Darren Langdon from Vancouver
New York Rangers take F Joel Bouchard from Pittsburgh
New York Rangers take F Sheldon Keefe from Tampa Bay
New York Rangers take F Mike Siklenka from Philadelphia
Nashville takes G Chris Mason from Florida
Atlanta takes F Ronald Petrovicky from New York Rangers
Montreal takes F Steve Begin from Buffalo
Washington takes F Brian Willsie from Colorado
Washington takes D Denis Hamel from Ottawa
Anaheim takes D Todd Simpson from Phoenix
St. Louis takes F Jeff Heerema from NYR
Florida takes G Steve Valiquette from Edmonton
Atlanta takes D Shawn Heins from NYR
Ottawa takes F Glen Metropolit from Washington
Carolina takes G Jani Hurme from Florida, trades Hurme to Atlanta for a fourth-round pick

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Old
10-03-2003, 11:12 AM
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The Hurme thing is shocking. What a gaffe by the Panthers on that one to lose him for a 4th rounder. Sure wish Burke would have waited to address the goaltending situation until the waiver draft looking at it in hindsight.

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10-03-2003, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maruk14
The Hurme thing is shocking. What a gaffe by the Panthers on that one to lose him for a 4th rounder. Sure wish Burke would have waited to address the goaltending situation until the waiver draft looking at it in hindsight.
The panthers didn't lose him for a 4th rounder...

they lost him for nothing...

the Canes got a 4th rounder for nothing... Atlanta gave up a 4th for him.

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Old
10-03-2003, 12:11 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
The panthers didn't lose him for a 4th rounder...

they lost him for nothing...

the Canes got a 4th rounder for nothing... Atlanta gave up a 4th for him.
The Florida Panthers then lost their No. 2 goaltender, Jani Hurme, in a somewhat bizarre twist.

First, the Panthers lost goaltender Chris Mason, third on their depth chart, to the Nashville Predators. That was a straightforward transaction. Mason was available; Nashville took him.

In an apparent effort to re-stock their minor-league goaltending, the Panthers claimed netminder Steve Valiquette from the Edmonton Oilers. But after taking Valiquette, the Panthers were told they would have to drop one of their two protected goalies - either Roberto Luongo or Jani Hurme. They chose Hurme.

Atlanta apparently put in a claim on Hurme, but it was ruled the Thrashers weren't eligible to take him at that point of the draft. Ultimately, the Carolina Hurricanes selected him and traded him to Atlanta for a fourth-round pick.

That leaves the Thrashers with Byron Dafoe, Pasi Nurminen, Kari Lehtonen and Hurme on their netminding depth chart.

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10-03-2003, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
The panthers didn't lose him for a 4th rounder...

they lost him for nothing...

the Canes got a 4th rounder for nothing... Atlanta gave up a 4th for him.
Yeah, I saw that article explaining the situation after I posted that. To lose him for nothing except a minor league goalie (Steve Valiquette) is shocking. Then for him to get traded for a 4th to Atlanta is even more shocking. Weird set of circumstances all around. I would have loved to see him in Vancouver for a 4th rounder. What a steal.

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10-03-2003, 12:27 PM
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In a hindsight, it would've been nice to get Hurme for a 4th rounder, but the Canucks did get a guy who has been a #1 goalie and has had playoff success for a 2nd round pick, not bad at all. I wonder what Dudley was thinking? I'm sure most people here know that to claim a player, you have to release when of your protected guys, how did Dudley not know this?!?!?!?

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10-03-2003, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
In an apparent effort to re-stock their minor-league goaltending, the Panthers claimed netminder Steve Valiquette from the Edmonton Oilers. But after taking Valiquette, the Panthers were told they would have to drop one of their two protected goalies - either Roberto Luongo or Jani Hurme. They chose Hurme.
I don't know about this...

the Panthers can't send a player they grab on waivers to the farm without him having to clear waivers again - with the original team that held his rights - the oilers - having first crack at getting him back and then sending him to their farm.

Same thing happened last season with the Canucks when Holden was claimed by the Canes, but as soon as they sent him down, the Canucks picked him up again, only to deal him to the Leafs....

didn't the Canes do the same thing with Druken and then deal him back to the Leafs?? not sure about that one?

Dudley just plain screwed up here... I can't see it any other way...

lots of excuses to move Hurme... his salary for a backup while Luongo is clearly their #1 man... the fact that Hurme wants to play as a #1 and was probably unhappy there... but in the end, Dudley could have gotten more for him... Ottawa dealt him to Florida for a 2nd rounder, because he would have to be exposed on waivers - Dudley could have done the same thing if he really wanted to move him... Calgary would probably have been interested... even if all they got was a 4th rounder!! they could probably have gotten Valiquette for less than a 4th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffen
In a hindsight, it would've been nice to get Hurme for a 4th rounder, but the Canucks did get a guy who has been a #1 goalie and has had playoff success for a 2nd round pick, not bad at all. I wonder what Dudley was thinking? I'm sure most people here know that to claim a player, you have to release when of your protected guys, how did Dudley not know this?!?!?!?
personally getting Hurme for a 4th rounder is a much better deal than getting Hedberg for a 2nd rounder... even when you consider the playoff experience (on that one run)...

Hedberg is a 1-year rental... he's a UFA after this year... Hurme is younger, has a better upside, and is just flat out a better goalie IMO, with still more upside to realize.

but this is a non-issue... no one can blame Burke for this... who could have thought that Hurme would be available on waivers?

Burke had to make his move based on who he thought would realistically be available... Shields, one of the Phoenix goalies, and Cujo (and the minor ones like Mason, Valiquette, etc)...

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Old
10-03-2003, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
personally getting Hurme for a 4th rounder is a much better deal than getting Hedberg for a 2nd rounder... even when you consider the playoff experience (on that one run)...

Hedberg is a 1-year rental... he's a UFA after this year... Hurme is younger, has a better upside, and is just flat out a better goalie IMO, with still more upside to realize.
I agree that Hurme for a 4th rounder is a better deal than Hedberg for a 2nd, Hurme for a 4th is a steal IMO. I've wanted Hurme to be the Canucks back-up for close to two years now, but getting Hedberg, a guys who has proven he can handle the pressure of being a #1 goalie, isn't a bad deal in return for a 2nd round pick. I also think that Hedberg's playoff success was a huge factor in Burke and Co's interest in him, Hurme is completely unproven in the post-season thus far. I'm just saying that although it would've been great if Burke waited it out and got Hurme for a 4th rounder(although he couldn't have predicted that he would've been available), but getting Hedberg was certainly a good move as well IMO.

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but this is a non-issue... no one can blame Burke for this... who could have thought that Hurme would be available on waivers?

Burke had to make his move based on who he thought would realistically be available... Shields, one of the Phoenix goalies, and Cujo (and the minor ones like Mason, Valiquette, etc)...
Exactly.

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10-03-2003, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
but this is a non-issue... no one can blame Burke for this... who could have thought that Hurme would be available on waivers?

Burke had to make his move based on who he thought would realistically be available... Shields, one of the Phoenix goalies, and Cujo (and the minor ones like Mason, Valiquette, etc)...
To me this could be seen as a criticism of Burke and how he handled the situation. He openly talked about a lot of movement happening at the waiver draft as teams gear up for the season and actually having to pay players. He could have held his ground and waited for the draft to see what transpired. This is clearly a salary dump by Florida. They had the opportunity to pull Hurme back and declined. I am not going to say he panicked because I don't think that is the case, but he probably could have gotten Hedberg cheaper had he waited a little longer.

Same reason most of us were saying to exercise patience in looking for a top 6 forward during the offseason applies here in my mind. Burke would have been better served waiting. A better opportunity came along than the one he took and he had already made his move.

Having said all that, hindsight is 20/20 and I am still happy we have Hedberg, I just think now, given what has transpired, a 2nd rounder was overpaying given what Hurme went for.

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10-03-2003, 02:57 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maruk14
He could have held his ground and waited for the draft to see what transpired. This is clearly a salary dump by Florida. They had the opportunity to pull Hurme back and declined. I am not going to say he panicked because I don't think that is the case, but he probably could have gotten Hedberg cheaper had he waited a little longer.
I disagree. Apparantly Kevin Lowe and the Oilers were also pursuing Hedberg to see if he could become their #1 allowing them to move Salo and his large salary. If this is true, then Burke may have had to make the move at the time rather then risk not getting Hedberg at all, and more importantly, letting him go to a close rival like Edmonton.

As for Hurme, who knows what the situation was a month ago. Perhaps Dudley made it clear that he wasn't available? All I know is that I doubt anyone expected Florida to lose him for nothing.

In hindsight, it would've been nice if Burke waited until the waiver draft to see what happened. But if Edmonton was interested in Hedberg and got him, and Hurme wasn't made available during the waiver draft, the Canucks would be in bad shape in the back-up position. Getting Hedberg for a 2nd round pick is still a good move IMO.

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Old
10-03-2003, 03:07 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
I disagree. Apparantly Kevin Lowe and the Oilers were also pursuing Hedberg to see if he could become their #1 allowing them to move Salo and his large salary. If this is true, then Burke may have had to make the move at the time rather then risk not getting Hedberg at all, and more importantly, letting him go to a close rival like Edmonton.

As for Hurme, who knows what the situation was a month ago. Perhaps Dudley made it clear that he wasn't available? All I know is that I doubt anyone expected Florida to lose him for nothing.

In hindsight, it would've been nice if Burke waited until the waiver draft to see what happened. But if Edmonton was interested in Hedberg and got him, and Hurme wasn't made available during the waiver draft, the Canucks would be in bad shape in the back-up position. Getting Hedberg for a 2nd round pick is still a good move IMO.
I still like the deal, but Burke is always preaching patience with making deals, and openly talked about a lot of movement around both the Entry Draft and Waiver Draft. Why then didn't he wait?

Like I said, hindsight is 20/20 and it is a small criticism, but he would have been better off waiting until the Waiver Draft. His instincts were right.

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10-03-2003, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maruk14
I still like the deal, but Burke is always preaching patience with making deals, and openly talked about a lot of movement around both the Entry Draft and Waiver Draft. Why then didn't he wait?
I guess he felt that Hedberg for a 2nd round pick was the best he was going to get and that he felt that Hedberg wouldn't stay on the market for long. If he doesn't get Hedberg and waits around until the waiver draft and Hurme isn't available(a very likely scenario back in September), Burke comes out looking like an idiot.

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Like I said, hindsight is 20/20 and it is a small criticism, but he would have been better off waiting until the Waiver Draft. His instincts were right.
I agree. But hindsight wasn't available in September...

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10-03-2003, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
I guess he felt that Hedberg for a 2nd round pick was the best he was going to get and that he felt that Hedberg wouldn't stay on the market for long. If he doesn't get Hedberg and waits around until the waiver draft and Hurme isn't available(a very likely scenario back in September), Burke comes out looking like an idiot.



I agree. But hindsight wasn't available in September...
Yes, but for a man who preaches patience and waiting for the right deal to come along he didn't show much here. That is my point.

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10-03-2003, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by maruk14
Yes, but for a man who preaches patience and waiting for the right deal to come along he didn't show much here. That is my point.
I see. My counterpoint is that he waited the entire off-season and made what he felt was a good deal. Who knows if Hedberg still would've been available after the waiver draft(if Hurme wasn't available)? Long term, Hurme is likely the better deal as he won't be a UFA after this season and is signed long term to a reasonable ammount. On the other hand, Hedberg provides the Canucks with a former #1 goalie who Crawford can be confident in to carry the load of long stretches. He's also a proven playoff performer. For these reasons I think that Hedberg is a better fit for the current team than Hurme is. He's also a Swede which is nice...

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10-03-2003, 04:31 PM
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Nuckfan in TO, I agree that Hurme has more upside and all,and younger, and not a UFA, and etc.

but the window of opportunity is closing, and we want to win NOW, not 4 years from now when Hurme could become a legitimate #1 or #2 guy... So, in the end, Hedberg for a 2nd still sounds like the best move Burke could have done at the time, even right now.

I dont mind losing a 2nd round next year as long as Hedberg does bring what he is supposed to bring to the canucks- experience + push for #1 for Cloutier.

hell, he might even play extrodinary and out duo Cloutier and BB sign him again and be our #1.. ( I wish, Auld should be #1 by then, oh well)

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10-03-2003, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
I see. My counterpoint is that he waited the entire off-season and made what he felt was a good deal. Who knows if Hedberg still would've been available after the waiver draft(if Hurme wasn't available)? Long term, Hurme is likely the better deal as he won't be a UFA after this season and is signed long term to a reasonable ammount. On the other hand, Hedberg provides the Canucks with a former #1 goalie who Crawford can be confident in to carry the load of long stretches. He's also a proven playoff performer. For these reasons I think that Hedberg is a better fit for the current team than Hurme is. He's also a Swede which is nice...
Yeah, and don't get me wrong, I am really happy Hedberg is a Canuck, so like I said, it is a small criticism. If Hedberg plays as well as he is capable then giving up a 2nd rounder is ok by me. At the time of the deal I didn't think giving up that pick was a huge deal, but when you see a goalie the quality of Hurme go for a 4th rounder it makes you step back and think for a minute.

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10-03-2003, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by maruk14
Yeah, and don't get me wrong, I am really happy Hedberg is a Canuck, so like I said, it is a small criticism. If Hedberg plays as well as he is capable then giving up a 2nd rounder is ok by me. At the time of the deal I didn't think giving up that pick was a huge deal, but when you see a goalie the quality of Hurme go for a 4th rounder it makes you step back and think for a minute.
Yeah, Hurme for a 4th was a great deal for Atlanta. I like Hurme and have wanted him to be the Nucks back-up for awhile now, but Hedberg, a proven #1 goalie and playoff performer is what the Canucks need to push Cloutier and possibly take his job. Hurme has the talent, but he hasn't proven that he can be a #1 go, nor does he make anyone feel more comfortable about the Canucks playoff goaltending.

All in all, I would've been happy with either outcome, but the Hurme deal was one that completely came out of left field.

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Old
10-03-2003, 05:18 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maruk14
At the time of the deal I didn't think giving up that pick was a huge deal, but when you see a goalie the quality of Hurme go for a 4th rounder it makes you step back and think for a minute.
As one of the few to say that we overpaid for Hedberg, this is yet more proof. Cechmanek for a 2nd, Hurme for a 4th.

Depending on how you feel about Hedberg, he should either be in between them, or lower than Hurme.

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10-03-2003, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PecaFan
As one of the few to say that we overpaid for Hedberg, this is yet more proof. Cechmanek for a 2nd, Hurme for a 4th.

Depending on how you feel about Hedberg, he should either be in between them, or lower than Hurme.
I still wouldn't touch Cechmanek for a 2nd. Hedberg is known to be a great teammate, Cechmanek is not. I think Burke made the right choice in this trade off.

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10-03-2003, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
As one of the few to say that we overpaid for Hedberg, this is yet more proof. Cechmanek for a 2nd, Hurme for a 4th.

Depending on how you feel about Hedberg, he should either be in between them, or lower than Hurme.
I think you've got some pretty faulty logic going on there. For one, I wouldn't touch Cechmanek with a 10-foot pole given the chemistry risk he poses. As for Hurme, there's no way to say his value is a 4th rounder because this was an exceptional situation. If Florida had traded him in the offseason, they probably could've done better. Plus, Hurme has got a much bigger contract than Hedberg if I remember correctly, and his contract doesn't conveniently end with the end of the current CBA.

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