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KHL Contraction Part I (Mod Warning - Post #15)

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Old
06-26-2014, 08:59 AM
  #76
Jussi
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
NHL must be an even bushier league since 15 teams left for financial reasons
Big difference being there wasn't a salary cap in place in the NHL in those days. KHL clubs are failing despite a salary cap. Want to try again?

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06-26-2014, 09:02 AM
  #77
Alessandro Seren Rosso
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Big difference being there wasn't a salary cap in place in the NHL in those days. KHL clubs are failing despite a salary cap. Want to try again?
I don't understand how exactly a salary cap saves things for incompetency of boards. If Lev's (or Spartak's or whatever you want) board is not able to manage their money, they can have a salary cap of 1 euro, yet they'll have to fold their teams

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06-26-2014, 09:08 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
I don't understand how exactly a salary cap saves things for incompetency of boards. If Lev's (or Spartak's or whatever you want) board is not able to manage their money, they can have a salary cap of 1 euro, yet they'll have to fold their teams
When a salary cap is tied to league revenue and includes revenue sharing, that creates an environment where financial issues should not be large enough to take down clubs. Point is, if the salary cap in KHL would have at say 25 million euros since the beginning, would players salaries/costs have inflated to the level they are now? NHL has learned from mistakes in the past, KHL bosses could have studied those mistakes and made sure it wouldn't happen there. But they didn't.

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06-26-2014, 09:14 AM
  #79
Alessandro Seren Rosso
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
When a salary cap is tied to league revenue and includes revenue sharing, that creates an environment where financial issues should not be large enough to take down clubs. Point is, if the salary cap in KHL would have at say 25 million euros since the beginning, would players salaries/costs have inflated to the level they are now? NHL has learned from mistakes in the past, KHL bosses could have studied those mistakes and made sure it wouldn't happen there. But they didn't.
NA economic rules don't apply to European/Russian ones and viceversa

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06-26-2014, 09:15 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
NHL must be an even bushier league since 15 teams left for financial reasons
Well, we can also remember that they had franchises that lasted for 2 seasons as well, it was back in the 1970s. But when was the last time they lost a contending team in a major market? 1917?

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06-26-2014, 09:17 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by obskyr View Post
Well, we can also remember that they had franchises that lasted for 2 seasons as well, it was back in the 1970s. But when was the last time they lost a contending team in a major market? 1917?
The Jets left Winnipeg in '96 if I am not mistaken, that's not an age ago. Also, Prague and Lev were cool, no one denies that, but it's like a team in Mexico City (meaning outside of Canada and USA)

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06-26-2014, 09:19 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
NA economic rules don't apply to European/Russian ones and viceversa
Reasonable spending works everywhere.

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06-26-2014, 09:20 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
The Jets left Winnipeg in '96 if I am not mistaken, that's not an age ago. Also, Prague and Lev were cool, no one denies that, but it's like a team in Mexico City (meaning outside of Canada and USA)
Your mentality is exactly why KHL is struggling.

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06-26-2014, 09:23 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by obskyr View Post
Reasonable spending works everywhere.
But isn't that what I'm saying? You're not able to spend well = you're out of the league!

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06-26-2014, 09:23 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Your mentality is exactly why KHL is struggling.
Struggling in what? Some teams left, other teams came

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06-26-2014, 09:24 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Struggling in what? Some teams left, other teams came
Seems like a nice league. A healthy case of clubs folding and being replaced is good for any league, what was I thinking.

Now I expect a "but NHL did it too!" type of respons from you. Well **** son, I was thinking of starting a new car company, but since the first cars ever were complete **** it won't really be an issue if mine are too, you know, fair is fair.

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06-26-2014, 09:25 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
The Jets left Winnipeg in '96 if I am not mistaken, that's not an age ago. Also, Prague and Lev were cool, no one denies that, but it's like a team in Mexico City (meaning outside of Canada and USA)
Winnipeg is not a major market and the Jets didn't have winning records back then, they also won only two playoff series in their entire NHL history.

Yeah, when in comes to European hockey, Czech Republic is totally like Mexico.

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06-26-2014, 09:27 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Your mentality is exactly why KHL is struggling.
I wouldn't say that the KHL is struggling at all
I think that the KHL is easily a European hockey project of the decade even with its problems. Nothing comes close in accomplishment and quality of hockey. The only comparable project to the geographic conditions is the EBEL.

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06-26-2014, 09:28 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by BlueBratislava View Post
I wouldn't say that the KHL is struggling at all
I think that the KHL is easily a European hockey project of the decade even with its problems. Nothing comes close in accomplishment and quality of hockey. The only comparable project to the geographic conditions is the EBEL.
What accomplishment?

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06-26-2014, 09:28 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by obskyr View Post
Yeah, when in comes to European hockey, Czech Republic is totally like Mexico.
I meant "they created a team and they put it outside of Russia"

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06-26-2014, 09:32 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
But isn't that what I'm saying? You're not able to spend well = you're out of the league!
Very few teams in the league are able to spend (waste money at enormous rates) well. It started as a barely sustainable project and six years later nothing has changed.

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06-26-2014, 09:34 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by obskyr View Post
Very few teams in the league are able to spend (waste money at enormous rates) well. It started as a barely sustainable project and six years later nothing has changed.
And thus why banning teams who can't finance themselves is a bad thing?

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06-26-2014, 09:35 AM
  #93
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What accomplishment?
Tell me one hockey project in Europe in the last 10 years that has done this:
-increased the amount of money circulating in the league by multiples of previous levels
-brought quality hockey to completely new locations
-offered an alternative to young players before leaving to North America at very young age
-placed such high amount of players on national teams
-didn't let the NHL take every player they wanted for low price
-created a competitive junior league that is an interesting option for clubs from all over Europe

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06-26-2014, 09:36 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
I meant "they created a team and they put it outside of Russia"
NHL started as a Canadian league and later aimed at the entire North American market. In this context, Prague is more like Boston or Detroit.

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06-26-2014, 09:38 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by BlueBratislava View Post
Tell me one hockey project in Europe in the last 10 years that has done this:
-increased the amount of money circulating in the league by multiples of previous levels
-brought quality hockey to completely new locations
-offered an alternative to young players before leaving to North America at very young age
-placed such high amount of players on national teams
-didn't let the NHL take every player they wanted for low price
-created a competitive junior league that is an interesting option for clubs from all over Europe
Why does it have to had been done in the last 10 years?

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06-26-2014, 09:48 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
And thus why banning teams who can't finance themselves is a bad thing?
Taking measures to improve financial stability of your league is a good thing, slowly killing it is not. Prague was one of the most important achievements of the KHL expansion agenda, failure of that project is the biggest loss for the league so far.

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06-26-2014, 10:00 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by obskyr View Post
Taking measures to improve financial stability of your league is a good thing, slowly killing it is not. Prague was one of the most important achievements of the KHL expansion agenda, failure of that project is the biggest loss for the league so far.
Well, you're right on the first part. Actually the "luxury tax" on the salary cap is a thing with whom they're trying to solve these problems. Whether it will work or not it's yet to be seen.
It's true that losing Lev sucks, but on the other hand the KHL just got Jokerit so probably it's a 1-1 thing, as we see поживем увидим ("Time will tell" for those who do not speak Russian)

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06-26-2014, 10:02 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by BlueBratislava View Post
Tell me one hockey project in Europe in the last 10 years that has done this:
-increased the amount of money circulating in the league by multiples of previous levels
-brought quality hockey to completely new locations
-offered an alternative to young players before leaving to North America at very young age
-placed such high amount of players on national teams
-didn't let the NHL take every player they wanted for low price
-created a competitive junior league that is an interesting option for clubs from all over Europe
Some of these things can be said about the EBEL. The EBEL league is great too, even if not at the KHL level.

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06-26-2014, 10:04 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Some of these things can be said about the EBEL. The EBEL league is great too, even if not at the KHL level.
Which only proves that international leagues are the way to go. Small egoistic leagues will hit the wall sooner or later with the way modern sport is developing and with the amount of money required. Players simply have too many options today and hometeam love stops when someone flashes 6 digits infront of your eyes.

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06-26-2014, 10:17 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Well, you're right on the first part. Actually the "luxury tax" on the salary cap is a thing with whom they're trying to solve these problems. Whether it will work or not it's yet to be seen.
Although, frankly speaking, there won't be a salary cap next season, they're putting a luxury tax threshold, which is similar to the one MLB has, instead. They already tried that before.

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