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Old
05-14-2014, 06:01 AM
  #726
Jtown
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
No, bringing Bernie Parent back and taking a shot on a diabetic were the best moves the Flyers made.

And how did blowing up the core extend our window by 5 years!? The window was slammed shut the second they did, and it's not close to opening again.
We gave up nothing to get clarke, who was known to be a great talent and would've gone first if he didn't have diabetes. parent was a diffrent situation and he kind of forced his way onto the flyers after a year in the wha.


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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Neither one was trending downward at the time. Carter was/is still a goal scoring center who can play D, and Richards was his old Philly self until his concussion.

And honestly, right now it's looking like sheer awesome luck that we are even a playoff team. If Couturier isn't available at 8 and Pronger still goes down this team's defensive ability would be disastrously bad.

So calling those two trades the best the franchise has ever made at this point is stupefying.
The only stupefying thing is how such an intelligent poster can be so delusional whenever the subject of Richards and carter are brought up. Richards had 2 elite years where he was among the 10 best players ( not just forwards) in the league. A hockey analytics site that I view had him neck and neck with ovechkin for the hart trophy in 08. After 09 his game slipped and he was unable to score at the same clip he once was and now in 2014 it is looking like he is going to be bought out and is a freaking shell of his former self. You keep chalking it up to his "concussion" yet you don't seem to get that he was not his usual philly self before that concussion. His body was wearing down from years of not dedicating himself to the game off the ice something that he even admits to.

You also have some illusions of 2010. What a fortunate run that was, and it was no indication of how good we were. A miracle run that included tip toeing around such juggernauts as the caps and pens and a historical freak comeback against the bruins. That team is the definiton of catching wind in a bottle and almost rode it towards a stanely cup. The 2011 was a much better team, before the xmas break they either had the most or 2nd most pts in the league and were absolutely dominate at even strength.

We lost in 2010 because of depth. The blackhawks could ice their 3rd pairing and the flyers couldn't. the hawks 3rd pairing consisted of brouwer bolland and versteeg and we had giroux and a rookie jvr with asham. It wasn't goaltending it was the fact that pronger and kimmo had to play unreal minutes by the time it was the end of the third period those guys were dog tired, hence kimmo getting faked out of his jock strap by kane.

Homer made the necessary moves to improve the 3rd pairing , as well as improve forward depth with the zherdev and versteeg signing. Zherdev had one of the highest goals scored per minutes played that year and was always jerked around from line to line. Had lavy just settled on the carter giroux zherdev line we could have seen him be an asset for us instead of a liability.

2011 was one of the most spectacular collapses I've ever witnessed in my life and the captain did nothing to prevent that.

We traded carter and richards at the perfect time. Another year and their ntc would kick in . then we would be sattled with a captain whose game was quickly becoming a 3rd liner and was our most expensive forward who we had signed for another 9 years. Carter I am sure will finish out his contract strong since he is a dedicated athlete off the ice.




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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Or Hartnell/Timonen...or getting Mark Howe...or for ballsy, Lindros.



I remember in that offseason I spent a lot of time making a roster, with realistic trades that made sense for both teams, trying my best to be honest about cap hits for signings, etc...and then when it came time to get the goalie (Vokoun!) under contract I had less than a million dollars to work with...and I had already pretty much assumed we were the only team on the UFA market. So I gave up frustrated and traded the whole team for every star in the league and went about 20-30 mil over the cap instead.
hartnell and kimmo were two ufa's. Mark howe was a hof guy that was a no brainer to trade for. Lindros was considered to be the next great superstar after lemieux.


Can you think of a time when a team has traded its two most prolific stars one year after a successful season and go on the following year to have an even more successful season while the two players they just traded fell off the map? If we held on to those guys our window would be closed now because we would be saddled with a 5.6 million dollar cap hit on a 4th line center who is going to be out of hockey in a bit. Instead we have simmonds and schenn two young extremely talented guys that the kings would love to have back.

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Old
05-14-2014, 06:21 AM
  #727
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Poor Bryz. Kane with another overtime winner.

Typical, Kane Typical

I would hate a Hawks-Habs/Rangers Final

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05-14-2014, 06:54 AM
  #728
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One thing is for sure, some **** is going down in Pittsburgh this offseason. I really hope they do something stupid like trade Malkin for a bunch of lesser parts.

Bylsma and Shero look like they're gone, and I'm sure they'll explore moving Letang. That contract extension will haunt them in trade talks.

Crosby is the face of that franchise; but how crazy would it be if they traded Crosby and decided that Malkin was the one to build around? There's some legitimacy to it with Crosby's health concerns and recent **** poor play in the playoffs.

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05-14-2014, 07:07 AM
  #729
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this day come back to haunt us if they hire a good gm and coach that can get these players motivated and surrounded with the talent they need.
Well I read they have 16m in cap space and 13 ufa's. So unless they do something real dramatic, you'll see the same slop bottom 6 that they've had, can't get much these days for 1m per player. Especially with zero forward prospects in the pipeline. They're gonna need a grand wizard to fix that mess.

And with that Buccigross quote of dissension in the locker room, it makes you wonder if Sid pulled a Primeau and quit on Disco Dan.

Their post game thread was epic last night. A few even wanted Mario's head on a stick.

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05-14-2014, 07:15 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
One thing is for sure, some **** is going down in Pittsburgh this offseason. I really hope they do something stupid like trade Malkin for a bunch of lesser parts.

Bylsma and Shero look like they're gone, and I'm sure they'll explore moving Letang. That contract extension will haunt them in trade talks.

Crosby is the face of that franchise; but how crazy would it be if they traded Crosby and decided that Malkin was the one to build around? There's some legitimacy to it with Crosby's health concerns and recent **** poor play in the playoffs.
Don't think Shero will be gone, Bylsma will be. Deep down, I think Bylsma would tell you it's time anyways, but he's not going to quit coaching Crosby and Malkin. Shero's is at fault for surrounding Crosby and Malkin with stiffs...some of the same issues that plagued the Flyers when they had Lindros, LeClair, and Brind'Amour...didn't have enough of everyone else.

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05-14-2014, 07:20 AM
  #731
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Pitt got there trophy while they could. I can't blame Shero for handing out 8M/yr contract to Crosby and Malkin, you have too. Letang on the other hand would've been shipped out.

When you have that many top heavy contracts its gonna trickle down.

As someone mentioned, they have 16MM in cap space with a ton of spots to fill. Also, its not 16MM its close to 14MM. Bettman said that the cap will only go to around 69-70.

That Letang extension is a killer. And its just starting, I don't know who would even contemplate taking that.

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05-14-2014, 07:31 AM
  #732
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Don't think Shero will be gone, Bylsma will be. Deep down, I think Bylsma would tell you it's time anyways, but he's not going to quit coaching Crosby and Malkin. Shero's is at fault for surrounding Crosby and Malkin with stiffs...some of the same issues that plagued the Flyers when they had Lindros, LeClair, and Brind'Amour...didn't have enough of everyone else.
Bylsma had some decent options to play with Crosby, but he routinely went back to guys like Adams and Glass over Bennett and Vitale.

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05-14-2014, 07:55 AM
  #733
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The only stupefying thing is how such an intelligent poster can be so delusional whenever the subject of Richards and carter are brought up. Richards had 2 elite years where he was among the 10 best players ( not just forwards) in the league. A hockey analytics site that I view had him neck and neck with ovechkin for the hart trophy in 08. After 09 his game slipped and he was unable to score at the same clip he once was and now in 2014 it is looking like he is going to be bought out and is a freaking shell of his former self. You keep chalking it up to his "concussion" yet you don't seem to get that he was not his usual philly self before that concussion. His body was wearing down from years of not dedicating himself to the game off the ice something that he even admits to.

You also have some illusions of 2010. What a fortunate run that was, and it was no indication of how good we were. A miracle run that included tip toeing around such juggernauts as the caps and pens and a historical freak comeback against the bruins. That team is the definiton of catching wind in a bottle and almost rode it towards a stanely cup. The 2011 was a much better team, before the xmas break they either had the most or 2nd most pts in the league and were absolutely dominate at even strength.

We lost in 2010 because of depth. The blackhawks could ice their 3rd pairing and the flyers couldn't. the hawks 3rd pairing consisted of brouwer bolland and versteeg and we had giroux and a rookie jvr with asham. It wasn't goaltending it was the fact that pronger and kimmo had to play unreal minutes by the time it was the end of the third period those guys were dog tired, hence kimmo getting faked out of his jock strap by kane.

Homer made the necessary moves to improve the 3rd pairing , as well as improve forward depth with the zherdev and versteeg signing. Zherdev had one of the highest goals scored per minutes played that year and was always jerked around from line to line. Had lavy just settled on the carter giroux zherdev line we could have seen him be an asset for us instead of a liability.

2011 was one of the most spectacular collapses I've ever witnessed in my life and the captain did nothing to prevent that.

We traded carter and richards at the perfect time. Another year and their ntc would kick in . then we would be sattled with a captain whose game was quickly becoming a 3rd liner and was our most expensive forward who we had signed for another 9 years. Carter I am sure will finish out his contract strong since he is a dedicated athlete off the ice.




Pretty much agree^

I give Holmgren credit for making the most of those trades that Snider pretty much pushed after that Boston debacle where Richards was AWOL during and after the series. You could tell that season after the Cup appearance, which even Snider admitted to being an anomaly of sorts that gave the organization a false sense of security, that Richards was playing half-hearted ..injured or not. I mean even Tocchet called him out during the Boston series. Kept saying where is the Captain..where is Mike Richards? Even during the season Richards was sniping with the coach about how he ran the power play which was indeed putrid and he probably had a point but it showed he wasn't happy. Then we came to learn he wasn't seeing eye to eye with the coach afterall and the so-called team was "a bunch of little groups"...his own words. It is just baffling that despite all this, some people are still saying we would have been successful with Mike Richards going forward especially since Pronger and Lavi weren't going anywhere..right or wrong. Moreover, like you note....Mike Richards off-ice commitment during the summer was pretty bad and as a captain he would come into camp as one of the worst in shape players. Not to mention the dude for the longest time stunk on faceoffs and should have worked on it in the offseason and never would. Having said all this, I never hated Richards but he was starting to wear on me and that contract (not his fault) just kept looking like an albatross more and more.

As far as Carter..well anybody that followed my postings during that time under different handle names knew I never liked the guy but also I always argued that trading him would net us the best deal and that we should leverage him in a deal and sure enough that is what happened. His trade netted us the best value back. Keeping him would have not harmed the Flyers necesssarily b/c the guy does score and even the Flyers brass supposedly said the same thing when they were considering moving him. However, in the case of Richards..the dude had to get moved due to various extenuating circumstances..some of which I mention above and other more polarizing reasons that cannot fully be substantiated unless Renegade comes back here and posts....

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05-14-2014, 08:40 AM
  #734
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Id take a cup and a half decade of collapses, where do I sign up?

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05-14-2014, 08:45 AM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
No, bringing Bernie Parent back and taking a shot on a diabetic were the best moves the Flyers made.

And how did blowing up the core extend our window by 5 years!? The window was slammed shut the second they did, and it's not close to opening again.
The window slammed shut when Pronger's career ended. With him and without Richards and Carter the Flyers of 11-12 were a significantly better team than the Flyers of 10-11.

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05-14-2014, 08:53 AM
  #736
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The Pronger injury killed us. Pronger still would be an elite defenseman I am sure, he is in the same boat as Chara/Lidstrom. He would be able to play at such a high level because of his hockey IQ. I know we gave up a lot to get him but if we had him now this team would be a prolific team that would be battling every year for a cup. It's a shame we have some of the worst luck in the world with defenders.

Also about Pittsburghs offseason plans, I have no clue why they would move Malkin. It would be the dumbest move that franchise has done in a very long time. He isn't the problem. Coaching, wingers, losing all young assets all are a big part, which is on Shero. Like many teams in the NHL you build through the middle. Crosby/Malkin is the best one two punch in the league. They need to improve their defense and goaltending.

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05-14-2014, 08:56 AM
  #737
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The window slammed shut when Pronger's career ended. With him and without Richards and Carter the Flyers of 11-12 were a significantly better team than the Flyers of 10-11.
This is absolutely comical. The 2010-2011 Flyers finished second in the conference and just one point out of first. They spent a good chunk of the year as the best team in the league. They were balanced on both offense and defense to the point that they carried the worst overall goaltending in the league to the two spot in the playoffs. They lost because Boston was a machine that year in the playoffs and they were worn down from the cup run the year before. Most teams that lose in the finals tend to struggle the next season.

The 2011-2012 Flyers finished fifth in the conference and third in their own division. They were more or less a defensive disaster even with Pronger in the lineup. Without Giroux emerging as an MVP candidate that year, the Flyers probably weren't even a playoff team.

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05-14-2014, 08:56 AM
  #738
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I still don't understand how people try to blame Paul Holmgren for Pronger's injury. It was a freak accident if I've ever seen one. Yeah, he traded a lot of firsts and some young guys for Pronger. Healthy Pronger, as we saw, was worth every bit of what we gave up.

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05-14-2014, 09:01 AM
  #739
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The 2011-2012 Flyers finished fifth in the conference and third in their own division. They were more or less a defensive disaster even with Pronger in the lineup. Without Giroux emerging as an MVP candidate that year, the Flyers probably weren't even a playoff team.
They had the third most points in the East, and sixth most in the entire league despite having poor goaltending and missing their best defenseman for most of the season. They did not miss Richards and Carter at all.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...ewName=summary

Flyers in 10-11 had a Points% of .646, scored 3.12 goals per game and conceded 2.63

Flyers in 11-12 had a Points% of .628, scored 3.17 goals per game and conceded 2.74.

And the Flyers actually had much better goaltending in 10-11 than they did in 11-12

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary


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05-14-2014, 09:16 AM
  #740
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They had the third most points in the East, and sixth most in the entire league despite having poor goaltending and missing their best defenseman for most of the season. They did not miss Richards and Carter at all.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...ewName=summary

Flyers in 10-11 had a Points% of .646, scored 3.12 goals per game and conceded 2.63

Flyers in 11-12 had a Points% of .628, scored 3.17 goals per game and conceded 2.74.

And the Flyers actually had much better goaltending in 10-11 than they did in 11-12

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary
They had less points and finished lower in the standings, even if the percentages were somewhat similar. They rode one line basically to the playoffs in 2011-2012. Their defense and goaltending was atrocious all year, and it was exposed badly in the playoffs. The 2010-2011 team was a team built to win the cup that was exhausted from the year before. We can talk about standings and stuff all you want, but I don't think many people would agree that the 2012 team was better than the team the year before with Richards and Carter. Btw, that doesn't mean that the Flyers lost the trades. The pieces they acquired weren't supposed to help this team right away.

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05-14-2014, 09:20 AM
  #741
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The only stupefying thing is how such an intelligent poster can be so delusional whenever the subject of Richards and carter are brought up. Richards had 2 elite years where he was among the 10 best players ( not just forwards) in the league. A hockey analytics site that I view had him neck and neck with ovechkin for the hart trophy in 08. After 09 his game slipped and he was unable to score at the same clip he once was and now in 2014 it is looking like he is going to be bought out and is a freaking shell of his former self. You keep chalking it up to his "concussion" yet you don't seem to get that he was not his usual philly self before that concussion. His body was wearing down from years of not dedicating himself to the game off the ice something that he even admits to.
In 09/10 Richards led the Flyers in points and was second to Carter in goals. He probably would have had 70 points if it weren't for the beginning of the season, when the offense was stagnant under Stevens. He then followed it up with an excellent post-season. In 10/11 he was 3rd on the team in points and had an unlucky year shooting the puck. Up until his concussions on the Kings the next year he was producing as a first line center while playing excellent defensive hockey. I don't really know what more you should ask of him.

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You also have some illusions of 2010. What a fortunate run that was, and it was no indication of how good we were. A miracle run that included tip toeing around such juggernauts as the caps and pens and a historical freak comeback against the bruins. That team is the definiton of catching wind in a bottle and almost rode it towards a stanely cup. The 2011 was a much better team, before the xmas break they either had the most or 2nd most pts in the league and were absolutely dominate at even strength.

We lost in 2010 because of depth. The blackhawks could ice their 3rd pairing and the flyers couldn't. the hawks 3rd pairing consisted of brouwer bolland and versteeg and we had giroux and a rookie jvr with asham. It wasn't goaltending it was the fact that pronger and kimmo had to play unreal minutes by the time it was the end of the third period those guys were dog tired, hence kimmo getting faked out of his jock strap by kane.
Obviously the Flyers got lucky that year, but the core of that team was still a championship caliber team. The Flyers had a tone of forward depth that year. I'm a little confused why you call the Giroux line and the Bolland line '3rd pairing' as opposed to third lines, but the Hawks obviously had an edge on their defensive depth. That being said, the Flyers absolutely would have won with mediocre goaltending instead of terrible goaltending. Leighton never stole a game, or made a really spectacular save. If the Flyers had a legitimate goalie the top four wouldn't have been run into the ground. Kane beat Timonen around the edge, but no team should have a back up goalie that lets in a goal like that. Homer considered goaltending an afterthought and the Flyers got stuck with a plan B, C, and D.

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Homer made the necessary moves to improve the 3rd pairing , as well as improve forward depth with the zherdev and versteeg signing. Zherdev had one of the highest goals scored per minutes played that year and was always jerked around from line to line. Had lavy just settled on the carter giroux zherdev line we could have seen him be an asset for us instead of a liability.

2011 was one of the most spectacular collapses I've ever witnessed in my life and the captain did nothing to prevent that.
Homer 'fixed' the 3rd line by taking a big ole' pile of **** on a leader and fan favorite. Meanwhile he neglected goaltending again, but managed to absolutely luck out with Bob. The Versteeg trade was obviously a bad trade from the get go. The Flyers didn't really need more forwards, and he never did anything positive for the team. I'm not even going to touch Z, he was clearly never going to work for the Flyers and was an awful replacement for Gagne.

There was no real collapse in 2011 they barely beat a terrible Buffalo team and got steamrolled by a team with a strong for-check (which happened again the next year when Richards won the cup). Despite the loss the core, specifically upfront was still championship caliber. The D obviously needed re-working and Bob just needed a little more time.

Your rant is pretty much utter garbage. You have posted numerous erroneous and errors, and the only thing substantive you have to say is that Richards didn't play as well as he did before these past two years. For some reason many people here need to demonize Richards and Carter and constantly bring up how great those trades were, but the fact is the Flyers were closer to winning the cup with them than without them.

Please keep spouting off more ******** its pretty amusing reading you write about the Versteeg signing and how our 3rd pair of JVR-Giroux-Asham just couldn't get it done.

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05-14-2014, 09:23 AM
  #742
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I still don't understand how people try to blame Paul Holmgren for Pronger's injury. It was a freak accident if I've ever seen one. Yeah, he traded a lot of firsts and some young guys for Pronger. Healthy Pronger, as we saw, was worth every bit of what we gave up.
I think most people blame Homer for not understanding how the 35+ rule worked, and not the injury.

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05-14-2014, 09:26 AM
  #743
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They had less points and finished lower in the standings, even if the percentages were somewhat similar. They rode one line basically to the playoffs in 2011-2012. Their defense and goaltending was atrocious all year, and it was exposed badly in the playoffs. The 2010-2011 team was a team built to win the cup that was exhausted from the year before. We can talk about standings and stuff all you want, but I don't think many people would agree that the 2012 team was better than the team the year before with Richards and Carter. Btw, that doesn't mean that the Flyers lost the trades. The pieces they acquired weren't supposed to help this team right away.
Eh, they werent an elite team after Christmas in 2010-2011. in fact, they were quite bad defensively and they barely won the division over the Penguins without Malkin and Crosby. I dont see that team as a potential cup winning team.

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05-14-2014, 09:27 AM
  #744
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In 09/10 Richards led the Flyers in points and was second to Carter in goals. He probably would have had 70 points if it weren't for the beginning of the season, when the offense was stagnant under Stevens. He then followed it up with an excellent post-season. In 10/11 he was 3rd on the team in points and had an unlucky year shooting the puck. Up until his concussions on the Kings the next year he was producing as a first line center while playing excellent defensive hockey. I don't really know what more you should ask of him.



Obviously the Flyers got lucky that year, but the core of that team was still a championship caliber team. The Flyers had a tone of forward depth that year. I'm a little confused why you call the Giroux line and the Bolland line '3rd pairing' as opposed to third lines, but the Hawks obviously had an edge on their defensive depth. That being said, the Flyers absolutely would have won with mediocre goaltending instead of terrible goaltending. Leighton never stole a game, or made a really spectacular save. If the Flyers had a legitimate goalie the top four wouldn't have been run into the ground. Kane beat Timonen around the edge, but no team should have a back up goalie that lets in a goal like that. Homer considered goaltending an afterthought and the Flyers got stuck with a plan B, C, and D.



Homer 'fixed' the 3rd line by taking a big ole' pile of **** on a leader and fan favorite. Meanwhile he neglected goaltending again, but managed to absolutely luck out with Bob. The Versteeg trade was obviously a bad trade from the get go. The Flyers didn't really need more forwards, and he never did anything positive for the team. I'm not even going to touch Z, he was clearly never going to work for the Flyers and was an awful replacement for Gagne.

There was no real collapse in 2011 they barely beat a terrible Buffalo team and got steamrolled by a team with a strong for-check (which happened again the next year when Richards won the cup). Despite the loss the core, specifically upfront was still championship caliber. The D obviously needed re-working and Bob just needed a little more time.

Your rant is pretty much utter garbage. You have posted numerous erroneous and errors, and the only thing substantive you have to say is that Richards didn't play as well as he did before these past two years. For some reason many people here need to demonize Richards and Carter and constantly bring up how great those trades were, but the fact is the Flyers were closer to winning the cup with them than without them.

Please keep spouting off more ******** its pretty amusing reading you write about the Versteeg signing and how our 3rd pair of JVR-Giroux-Asham just couldn't get it done.
Yeah I am more inclined to agree with your assessment. No offense, JT.

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05-14-2014, 09:27 AM
  #745
Curufinwe
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Simmonds, Voracek, Briere, JVR and Talbot averaged 46 points. That's not a one line team.

The Flyers window was still wide open without Carter and Richards in 11-12. All they needed was for their top defenseman to stay healthy and their free agent goalie to live up to his contract.

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05-14-2014, 09:31 AM
  #746
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The Pronger injury killed us. Pronger still would be an elite defenseman I am sure, he is in the same boat as Chara/Lidstrom. He would be able to play at such a high level because of his hockey IQ. I know we gave up a lot to get him but if we had him now this team would be a prolific team that would be battling every year for a cup. It's a shame we have some of the worst luck in the world with defenders.

Also about Pittsburghs offseason plans, I have no clue why they would move Malkin. It would be the dumbest move that franchise has done in a very long time. He isn't the problem. Coaching, wingers, losing all young assets all are a big part, which is on Shero. Like many teams in the NHL you build through the middle. Crosby/Malkin is the best one two punch in the league. They need to improve their defense and goaltending.
Well that's the point... he's not the problem but he could be a large part of the solution. He would get a massive amount of return that could solve a lot of their problems. They don't want to get rid of him, but what he could bring back might be more valuable to them just because it would fill a large need, whether it be defense or wingers. Losing Malkin would obviously hurt, but they still have Crosby obviously, it's not like they'd be left with no offensive franchise players.

I'm not saying that's what they should or shouldn't do, that's just the thought process behind the trade discussion.

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05-14-2014, 09:38 AM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Simmonds, Voracek, Briere, JVR and Talbot averaged 46 points. That's not a one line team.

The Flyers window was still wide open without Carter and Richards in 11-12. All they needed was for their top defenseman to stay healthy and their free agent goalie to live up to his contract.
Offense wasn't the problem. Talbot was the only one of those guys who could play defense, and he was terrible on the dot.

And Bryz was never going to live up to that contract. There was no need to even bring him in. If we needed a goalie and didn't want to wait for Bob to develop it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to bring in Vokoun for cheap. This isn't hindsight half the people on this board predicted Bryz would be an unmitigated disaster.

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05-14-2014, 09:39 AM
  #748
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Eh, they werent an elite team after Christmas in 2010-2011. in fact, they were quite bad defensively and they barely won the division over the Penguins without Malkin and Crosby. I dont see that team as a potential cup winning team.
Which more or less supports the theory that they were burnt out from the cup run the year before. They still finished nearly on top of the conference despite their second half lull. That didn't happen by accident. They were still considered a legitimate cup contender when the playoffs started. They looked exactly like what they were against Boston... a tired team that got steamrolled by a group on the brink of becoming a potential dynasty team.

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05-14-2014, 09:40 AM
  #749
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Offense wasn't the problem. Talbot was the only one of those guys who could play defense, and he was terrible on the dot.

And Bryz was never going to live up to that contract. There was no need to even bring him in. If we needed a goalie and didn't want to wait for Bob to develop it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to bring in Vokoun for cheap. This isn't hindsight half the people on this board predicted Bryz would be an unmitigated disaster.
I think the majority of the people thought Bryz would be exposed and wouldn't be as good as Phoenix, I don't think anyone could've predicted the dumpster fire he actually was

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05-14-2014, 09:42 AM
  #750
El Emperor
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Eh, they werent an elite team after Christmas in 2010-2011. in fact, they were quite bad defensively and they barely won the division over the Penguins without Malkin and Crosby. I dont see that team as a potential cup winning team.
As long as Pronger was healthy, their defense was at least above average.

After Christmas was when Pronger had that wrist/hand injury. Before then, they were a dominating force in the Eastern Conference. Quite simply, the team's defense just wasn't the same without Pronger... remember they did not record one shutout that year. And for whatever reason, Homer brought in Versteeg which I believe messed with the chemistry of the team's offense.

So when the playoffs arrived, Pronger still wasn't 100%, Lavy created a circus with the goalies and the team struggled. The team just couldn't overcome the deficiency in goal and defense anymore... they were physically and mentally tired. I would argue had they played any other team than Buffalo in the first round, they would have lost in 5 games.

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