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Old
05-14-2014, 10:43 AM
  #751
MickeyMelchiondo
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Also about Pittsburghs offseason plans, I have no clue why they would move Malkin. It would be the dumbest move that franchise has done in a very long time.
they have a significant portion of the cap tied up in 4 players-almost 30 milly between 87-71-58-and the goalie. And only 13 players signed for the 14-15 season. The cap situation is not the good.

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05-14-2014, 10:44 AM
  #752
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I think the majority of the people thought Bryz would be exposed and wouldn't be as good as Phoenix, I don't think anyone could've predicted the dumpster fire he actually was
That's about right. Most people thought he would be a slightly worse version of the top 5-7 goaltender that he was in Phoenix. Most still thought we were getting a top 12 goalie overall.

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05-14-2014, 10:46 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Bryz4shiz View Post
In 09/10 Richards led the Flyers in points and was second to Carter in goals. He probably would have had 70 points if it weren't for the beginning of the season, when the offense was stagnant under Stevens. He then followed it up with an excellent post-season. In 10/11 he was 3rd on the team in points and had an unlucky year shooting the puck. Up until his concussions on the Kings the next year he was producing as a first line center while playing excellent defensive hockey. I don't really know what more you should ask of him.



Obviously the Flyers got lucky that year, but the core of that team was still a championship caliber team. The Flyers had a tone of forward depth that year. I'm a little confused why you call the Giroux line and the Bolland line '3rd pairing' as opposed to third lines, but the Hawks obviously had an edge on their defensive depth. That being said, the Flyers absolutely would have won with mediocre goaltending instead of terrible goaltending. Leighton never stole a game, or made a really spectacular save. If the Flyers had a legitimate goalie the top four wouldn't have been run into the ground. Kane beat Timonen around the edge, but no team should have a back up goalie that lets in a goal like that. Homer considered goaltending an afterthought and the Flyers got stuck with a plan B, C, and D.



Homer 'fixed' the 3rd line by taking a big ole' pile of **** on a leader and fan favorite. Meanwhile he neglected goaltending again, but managed to absolutely luck out with Bob. The Versteeg trade was obviously a bad trade from the get go. The Flyers didn't really need more forwards, and he never did anything positive for the team. I'm not even going to touch Z, he was clearly never going to work for the Flyers and was an awful replacement for Gagne.

There was no real collapse in 2011 they barely beat a terrible Buffalo team and got steamrolled by a team with a strong for-check (which happened again the next year when Richards won the cup). Despite the loss the core, specifically upfront was still championship caliber. The D obviously needed re-working and Bob just needed a little more time.

Your rant is pretty much utter garbage. You have posted numerous erroneous and errors, and the only thing substantive you have to say is that Richards didn't play as well as he did before these past two years. For some reason many people here need to demonize Richards and Carter and constantly bring up how great those trades were, but the fact is the Flyers were closer to winning the cup with them than without them.

Please keep spouting off more ******** its pretty amusing reading you write about the Versteeg signing and how our 3rd pair of JVR-Giroux-Asham just couldn't get it done.

Richards concussion is a convenient excuse for his poor play, yet doesn't explain his slow skating and his inability to stay in front of any center he defends.

We had to trade gagne. His 5.5 million cap hit was abysmal and he couldn't stay healthy. We traded him at the right time and he would have made no difference in 2011 because like you said forwards weren't the problem.

Also 2011 was an epic collapse. To me it is still one of the great mysteries of the flyers. From the start of the season to the winter break where we lost to florida 5-0 we were a juggernaut and by far the best team in the east. Then it all came crashing down. That was our most talented team and because of injuries to pronger and bob's loss of self confidence we came crashing down to earth.

Then the next year we had the most talented forward roster in the nhl and a d core consisting of pronger, carle, kimmo, coburn, mez, along with the top ufa goalie in bryz.

That team was loaded and was in a great position to win a cup that year but 2 things happened . 1. pronger and 2. bryz. That team still came closer than the previous year to winning a cup than the carter richards led team.

Our struggles the past two years are the direct result of no pronger and an aging kimmo not the loss of richards and carter.

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05-14-2014, 10:47 AM
  #754
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The team has won one playoff series in the 3 years since they made those trades, and it was a crazy, pond-hockey series without an ounce of defensive awareness. They got steamrolled by the Devils and would have been steamrolled by the Rangers if Mason hadn't played so well.

The Boston team the 2010 Flyers beat was not a far cry from the "juggernaut" they seem to be now, yet none of the "we didn't play the Penguins" people want to acknowledge that. Then they played a really good Blackhawks team pretty evenly in the finals.

Pronger's injury had a significant effect, but his presence alone wouldn't turn this also-ran team into a real contender.

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05-14-2014, 10:48 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
I think the majority of the people thought Bryz would be exposed and wouldn't be as good as Phoenix, I don't think anyone could've predicted the dumpster fire he actually was
Fair enough, but he still obviously wasn't worth the contract, blowing up the core, or giving up Bob at the time.

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05-14-2014, 10:50 AM
  #756
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As long as Pronger was healthy, their defense was at least above average.

After Christmas was when Pronger had that wrist/hand injury. Before then, they were a dominating force in the Eastern Conference. Quite simply, the team's defense just wasn't the same without Pronger... remember they did not record one shutout that year. And for whatever reason, Homer brought in Versteeg which I believe messed with the chemistry of the team's offense.

So when the playoffs arrived, Pronger still wasn't 100%, Lavy created a circus with the goalies and the team struggled. The team just couldn't overcome the deficiency in goal and defense anymore... they were physically and mentally tired. I would argue had they played any other team than Buffalo in the first round, they would have lost in 5 games.
Sorry to quote my own post, but just wanted to add that the one silver lining to the Versteeg trade was that it prevented Homer from making a horrible deal to Ville Leino.

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05-14-2014, 10:57 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
The team has won one playoff series in the 3 years since they made those trades, and it was a crazy, pond-hockey series without an ounce of defensive awareness. They got steamrolled by the Devils and would have been steamrolled by the Rangers if Mason hadn't played so well.

The Boston team the 2010 Flyers beat was not a far cry from the "juggernaut" they seem to be now, yet none of the "we didn't play the Penguins" people want to acknowledge that. Then they played a really good Blackhawks team pretty evenly in the finals.

Pronger's injury had a significant effect, but his presence alone wouldn't turn this also-ran team into a real contender.
You can't argue that the Flyers didn't catch a bit of luck in the playoffs in 2010. That team was full of talent (enough to beat the Caps or Pens that year), but they did luck out that both of them got Halak'd. The Flyers boat raced the Devils and an exhausted Montreal team outside of the Bruins series. They were the best team in the East that year in the playoffs, full stop.

But, you can't begin to compare Boston's 2010 team versus the team that won the cup the next year and the one you see now. The 2011 team was almost as deep as their team now. Lucic was a year older, Marchand was on the roster, and they had so much more depth in that bottom six. They replaced guys like Sobotka, Satan, Sturm, and Bitz with guys like Peverly, Campbell, Seguin, and Kelly. That was a much better overall offense. Oh and they picked up that guy Horton to boost the top six. That 2010-2011 Bruins team was a machine and they played like one too. The 2009-2010 Bruins were toast the minute Mike Richards broke David Krejci's wrist.

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05-14-2014, 11:10 AM
  #758
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"if Mason didn't play so well"

Why do people talk about the goalie of a team playing well and act like he's not part of the team? I don't get it.

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05-14-2014, 11:15 AM
  #759
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this day come back to haunt us if they hire a good gm and coach that can get these players motivated and surrounded with the talent they need.
As much as I enjoy the Penguins underacheiving, I agree with you. I was hoping they would make the conference championship and lose in 6 so they would keep the team as is and continue to underperform. Instead, they will go get a coach and/or GM who could turn them into a real team.

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05-14-2014, 11:17 AM
  #760
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You can't argue that the Flyers didn't catch a bit of luck in the playoffs in 2010. That team was full of talent (enough to beat the Caps or Pens that year), but they did luck out that both of them got Halak'd. The Flyers boat raced the Devils and an exhausted Montreal team outside of the Bruins series. They were the best team in the East that year in the playoffs, full stop.

But, you can't begin to compare Boston's 2010 team versus the team that won the cup the next year and the one you see now. The 2011 team was almost as deep as their team now. Lucic was a year older, Marchand was on the roster, and they had so much more depth in that bottom six. They replaced guys like Sobotka, Satan, Sturm, and Bitz with guys like Peverly, Campbell, Seguin, and Kelly. That was a much better overall offense. Oh and they picked up that guy Horton to boost the top six. That 2010-2011 Bruins team was a machine and they played like one too. The 2009-2010 Bruins were toast the minute Mike Richards broke David Krejci's wrist.
The Bruins team in 2010 had Marc Savard, too. He was pretty good. And the Krejci injury was definitely huge, but so was Simon Gagne returning after missing the first 3 games. We didn't have Carter that series either.

We did catch some breaks that year, but most teams do when they go that far. Still, New Jersey and Boston were the #1 and #2 defensive teams in the NHL that year (plus Chicago was #6 and Montreal was #11 and riding high with Halak) and our offense went through them like they were nothing. Gotta give credit where it's due.

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05-14-2014, 11:18 AM
  #761
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We gave up nothing to get clarke, who was known to be a great talent and would've gone first if he didn't have diabetes. parent was a diffrent situation and he kind of forced his way onto the flyers after a year in the wha.
So let me get this straight. You honestly and truly believe that two trades that slammed our SC window shut for the foreseeable future are better than:

1) Being the only team to risk taking a kid with diabetes who ended up being an all-time great leader and a top-2 two way forward, tied with Frank Nighbor. Leads team to two Cups, becomes major franchise presence for decades.

2) Trading for Parent's rights. Parent wins 2 Smyth's, 2 Vezinas, and hits a two year streak that rivals Hasek's.

You honestly believe two moves that did nothing but make the franchise look different instead of moving them closer to a Cup win are clearly better than two moves that won the team a Cup? OK. Between this and the Leino thing, it's starting to look like evaluating moves isn't your forte.

The circumstances don't matter. What matters is the Flyers made the moves. They exist. There is no "making them not exist." You're trying to justify your unjustifiable position.




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The only stupefying thing is how such an intelligent poster can be so delusional whenever the subject of Richards and carter are brought up. Richards had 2 elite years where he was among the 10 best players ( not just forwards) in the league. A hockey analytics site that I view had him neck and neck with ovechkin for the hart trophy in 08. After 09 his game slipped and he was unable to score at the same clip he once was and now in 2014 it is looking like he is going to be bought out and is a freaking shell of his former self. You keep chalking it up to his "concussion" yet you don't seem to get that he was not his usual philly self before that concussion. His body was wearing down from years of not dedicating himself to the game off the ice something that he even admits to.

You also have some illusions of 2010. What a fortunate run that was, and it was no indication of how good we were. A miracle run that included tip toeing around such juggernauts as the caps and pens and a historical freak comeback against the bruins. That team is the definiton of catching wind in a bottle and almost rode it towards a stanely cup. The 2011 was a much better team, before the xmas break they either had the most or 2nd most pts in the league and were absolutely dominate at even strength.

We lost in 2010 because of depth. The blackhawks could ice their 3rd pairing and the flyers couldn't. the hawks 3rd pairing consisted of brouwer bolland and versteeg and we had giroux and a rookie jvr with asham. It wasn't goaltending it was the fact that pronger and kimmo had to play unreal minutes by the time it was the end of the third period those guys were dog tired, hence kimmo getting faked out of his jock strap by kane.

Homer made the necessary moves to improve the 3rd pairing , as well as improve forward depth with the zherdev and versteeg signing. Zherdev had one of the highest goals scored per minutes played that year and was always jerked around from line to line. Had lavy just settled on the carter giroux zherdev line we could have seen him be an asset for us instead of a liability.
Richards carried LA until he was concussed. It was to the point where LA fans wanted Brown shipped out immediately and Richards made captain. He was completely different after his concussion. You are disputing simple facts here. That's not opinion, it's literally fact.

We didn't lose 2010 because of depth. We lost 2010 because we had a minor league goaltender who played all of one good period. One.

If you think Zherdev replaced what Gagne was bringing in 2010 I have no idea what to tell you. The guy disrupted the team more often than not with selfish play and didn't play defense. Versteeg wasn't a signing. He was a trade. He was injured pretty much from the start and ineffective. Improving the 3rd pairing makes zero difference when your goal options are a worn out, overplayed rookie, Boucher, and a minor leaguer.

Richards had played the season with some pretty significant wrist injuries. Here's that double standard again...Giroux plays through injury, warrier! Richards plays through injury, bum!

As for the 2010 run, wow. You're just flat out wrong. That was the team playing up to potential, finally. We were picked by many to be Cup Finalists after the Pronger trade, and they disappointed until Stevens was fired and Lavi could get them moving. They continued that dominance into 2011 until the long grueling postseason that saw them playing out of their minds to protect what was essentially an empty net for 4 rounds caught up to them.

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2011 was one of the most spectacular collapses I've ever witnessed in my life and the captain did nothing to prevent that.
The guy was ****ing injured and played his heart and soul out. JVR was the only player who did anything to prevent that. Get real, and drop your nonsensical agenda against Richards. The fact that you think he wasn't anything that great in the first half of 2011 in LA speaks volumes.

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We traded carter and richards at the perfect time. Another year and their ntc would kick in . then we would be sattled with a captain whose game was quickly becoming a 3rd liner and was our most expensive forward who we had signed for another 9 years. Carter I am sure will finish out his contract strong since he is a dedicated athlete off the ice.
I love how the biggest criticism of Carter is that we would have had him a long time .

The only reason those contracts were traded at the perfect time was because Holmgren had completely drained the prospect pool and put the team in a truly dire situation. With responsible GMing (that didn't require a supremely expensive D group) they could've held the core together and weathered Richards' contract for eventual buyout if necessary. A team can survive one or two bad cap hits, especially if there are some great intangibles there.

The trades were necessary because of the team's situation. But they aren't anywhere close to best in team history. By a long shot.






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hartnell and kimmo were two ufa's. Mark howe was a hof guy that was a no brainer to trade for. Lindros was considered to be the next great superstar after lemieux.
Hartnell and Kimmo were acuired. Howe was acquired, and he was also a big risk since he had a major injury and it was unknown how fully he would recover. Lindros was acquired. The skill of the players is inconsequential. It doesn't change the fact that they were acquired, and that those moves are better than the 2011 trades. Nitpick all you want, you're wrong.


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Can you think of a time when a team has traded its two most prolific stars one year after a successful season and go on the following year to have an even more successful season while the two players they just traded fell off the map? If we held on to those guys our window would be closed now because we would be saddled with a 5.6 million dollar cap hit on a 4th line center who is going to be out of hockey in a bit. Instead we have simmonds and schenn two young extremely talented guys that the kings would love to have back.
The two players they traded fell off the map!??? They were crucial pieces in a Cup win. Are you serious!? By what logic is that "falling off the map?"

And how were we more successful? Embarassed again in the second round, and finished LOWER in the standings. We went from 2nd in the Conference to 5th. You have an amazingly flawed concept of "more successful." In fact, it looks a lot like the definition of "less successful."

Our window IS closed. Simmonds is a second line talent at best and PP specialist, Schenn isn't looking like he's going to meet expectations which blows a big hole in our future plans for contention until he either 1)shows he can his that "average first line center" potential and be our 2C without being a a mess, or 2) gets addressed in any way.

Face it. The team took a step back. It remains to be seen if this group can take the step forward to be real contenders again. And until that happens, there isn't the slightest chance those moves are the best this franchise has EVER made. Daring, yes. Best? Nope. Not until the produce a Cup.

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05-14-2014, 11:20 AM
  #762
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The Bruins team in 2010 had Marc Savard, too. He was pretty good. And the Krejci injury was definitely huge, but so was Simon Gagne returning after missing the first 3 games. We didn't have Carter that series either.

We did catch some breaks that year, but most teams do when they go that far. Still, New Jersey and Boston were the #1 and #2 defensive teams in the NHL that year (plus Chicago was #6 and Montreal was #11 and riding high with Halak) and our offense went through them like they were nothing. Gotta give credit where it's due.
breaks are one thing , but the flyers? as a 7 seed they had home ice advantage in the conference championship. That has never happened. Looking back the fortune we had was crazy.

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05-14-2014, 11:21 AM
  #763
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"if Mason didn't play so well"

Why do people talk about the goalie of a team playing well and act like he's not part of the team? I don't get it.
Because it's usually not a good strategy to flat-out rely on your goalie to consistently win games for your team when they're being outplayed. I also think it's different if you have an elite goalie that you build your team around, or if you have a more middle of the road goalie who just happens to play super well.

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05-14-2014, 11:24 AM
  #764
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I see Jtown is on a roll lately.

Well, every person has their own views and beliefs so whatever. Some of these comments I find really funny though.

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05-14-2014, 11:31 AM
  #765
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So let me get this straight. You honestly and truly believe that two trades that slammed our SC window shut for the foreseeable future
Those two trades did not do that. This team would not have been competing for a Cup if they had kept those two players.

The loss of Pronger and the failure of Bryzgalov are what turned the Flyers from a contender to a pretender.

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05-14-2014, 11:39 AM
  #766
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I really don't know how you can argue against Clarke & Parent not being the best acquisitions in club history. They obviously don't win the two cups without them two & there's a good chance the Flyers organization aren't who they are today if that doesn't happen, keep in mind hockey wasn't as popular here before these guys showed up.

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05-14-2014, 11:41 AM
  #767
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Because it's usually not a good strategy to flat-out rely on your goalie to consistently win games for your team when they're being outplayed. I also think it's different if you have an elite goalie that you build your team around, or if you have a more middle of the road goalie who just happens to play super well.
That's fair. I understand your point, however we aren't the only team I see that argument used for. Someone used it with the Rangers.

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05-14-2014, 11:45 AM
  #768
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Those two trades did not do that. This team would not have been competing for a Cup if they had kept those two players.

The loss of Pronger and the failure of Bryzgalov are what turned the Flyers from a contender to a pretender.
No way. Even with Pronger around and Bryzgalov not blowing chunks that team still wasn't a contender after the trades. Remember, at the time we traded our two best centers for a prospect center and...that's it. We really didn't replace what we had lost until Couturier fell to us and he exceeded expectations by miles. When those trades went down we were officially not longer contenders.

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05-14-2014, 11:45 AM
  #769
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So let me get this straight. You honestly and truly believe that two trades that slammed our SC window shut for the foreseeable future are better than:

1) Being the only team to risk taking a kid with diabetes who ended up being an all-time great leader and a top-2 two way forward, tied with Frank Nighbor. Leads team to two Cups, becomes major franchise presence for decades.

2) Trading for Parent's rights. Parent wins 2 Smyth's, 2 Vezinas, and hits a two year streak that rivals Hasek's.

You honestly believe two moves that did nothing but make the franchise look different instead of moving them closer to a Cup win are clearly better than two moves that won the team a Cup? OK. Between this and the Leino thing, it's starting to look like evaluating moves isn't your forte.

The circumstances don't matter. What matters is the Flyers made the moves. They exist. There is no "making them not exist." You're trying to justify your unjustifiable position.






Richards carried LA until he was concussed. It was to the point where LA fans wanted Brown shipped out immediately and Richards made captain. He was completely different after his concussion. You are disputing simple facts here. That's not opinion, it's literally fact.

We didn't lose 2010 because of depth. We lost 2010 because we had a minor league goaltender who played all of one good period. One.

If you think Zherdev replaced what Gagne was bringing in 2010 I have no idea what to tell you. The guy disrupted the team more often than not with selfish play and didn't play defense. Versteeg wasn't a signing. He was a trade. He was injured pretty much from the start and ineffective. Improving the 3rd pairing makes zero difference when your goal options are a worn out, overplayed rookie, Boucher, and a minor leaguer.

Richards had played the season with some pretty significant wrist injuries. Here's that double standard again...Giroux plays through injury, warrier! Richards plays through injury, bum!

As for the 2010 run, wow. You're just flat out wrong. That was the team playing up to potential, finally. We were picked by many to be Cup Finalists after the Pronger trade, and they disappointed until Stevens was fired and Lavi could get them moving. They continued that dominance into 2011 until the long grueling postseason that saw them playing out of their minds to protect what was essentially an empty net for 4 rounds caught up to them.



The guy was ****ing injured and played his heart and soul out. JVR was the only player who did anything to prevent that. Get real, and drop your nonsensical agenda against Richards. The fact that you think he wasn't anything that great in the first half of 2011 in LA speaks volumes.



I love how the biggest criticism of Carter is that we would have had him a long time .

The only reason those contracts were traded at the perfect time was because Holmgren had completely drained the prospect pool and put the team in a truly dire situation. With responsible GMing (that didn't require a supremely expensive D group) they could've held the core together and weathered Richards' contract for eventual buyout if necessary. A team can survive one or two bad cap hits, especially if there are some great intangibles there.

The trades were necessary because of the team's situation. But they aren't anywhere close to best in team history. By a long shot.








Hartnell and Kimmo were acuired. Howe was acquired, and he was also a big risk since he had a major injury and it was unknown how fully he would recover. Lindros was acquired. The skill of the players is inconsequential. It doesn't change the fact that they were acquired, and that those moves are better than the 2011 trades. Nitpick all you want, you're wrong.




The two players they traded fell off the map!??? They were crucial pieces in a Cup win. Are you serious!? By what logic is that "falling off the map?"

And how were we more successful? Embarassed again in the second round, and finished LOWER in the standings. We went from 2nd in the Conference to 5th. You have an amazingly flawed concept of "more successful." In fact, it looks a lot like the definition of "less successful."

Our window IS closed. Simmonds is a second line talent at best and PP specialist, Schenn isn't looking like he's going to meet expectations which blows a big hole in our future plans for contention until he either 1)shows he can his that "average first line center" potential and be our 2C without being a a mess, or 2) gets addressed in any way.

Face it. The team took a step back. It remains to be seen if this group can take the step forward to be real contenders again. And until that happens, there isn't the slightest chance those moves are the best this franchise has EVER made. Daring, yes. Best? Nope. Not until the produce a Cup.


1. those trades and draft picks were great moves that led us to the stanley cup but they they weren't as good as the richards and carter moves and here is why. Now before you and other posters get your panties in a twists on the surface without any higher level of analysis it seems like a no brainer parent and clarke were the more impactful aquistions. However Parent wanted to come to philly and it was a no brainer to trade favell and a pick for parent ( key to this sentence is no brainer). Clarke fell into our lap. SImple as that we got lucky same as cole hamels did when the phillies drafted him.

homer was not faced with such a no brainer decision. He could either keep richards and carter and let their nmc kick in and be sattled with them for the future or he could trade them and get bigger faster and younger. It is a hard decision to make and i can guarentee you that no other gm would have the balls to do that trade. Had he kept those 2 guys our window would be shut. We weren't going to win with those guys and the only way they would ever win is if they were riding the coattails of more talented players, if they were on a team with a legit two way number 1 center and an elite dmen and a great goaltender.

Richards and carter were never going to lead us to a cup Beef. Get over it, they were for 1 year good contributors to a team with all the key pieces in place.

I liken Richards and carter contribution to the cup similar to the contribution ladd and buff had in chicago. Those guys were key cogs and important players, but they were removed and chicago won again without them. Why? Because they had toews kane sharp hossa keith and seabrook in place, they didnt win cause of ladd and buff.

The kings won because of quick doughty kopitar and brown leading the way while carter and richards chipped in .


IN 2012 we won 1 game in the 2nd round and were in pretty much every game. IN 2011 we won zero games in the 2nd round while suffering a few blowouts. That to me in an improvement.


Our window is open as long as we have giroux.

Look beef I am not a richards basher. The guy was my favriote flyer when he was here, but the guy is a shell of his former self . He is unbearable to watch and your love for him has really tainted your view on him. I promise you i have seen way more kings games than you have since his time there and everytime i watch him i am just so thankful homer had the balls to pull off that trade.

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05-14-2014, 11:46 AM
  #770
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No way. Even with Pronger around and Bryzgalov not blowing chunks that team still wasn't a contender after the trades. Remember, at the time we traded our two best centers for a prospect center and...that's it. We really didn't replace what we had lost until Couturier fell to us and he exceeded expectations by miles. When those trades went down we were officially not longer contenders.
this is easily one of your worst posts.

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05-14-2014, 11:57 AM
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No way. Even with Pronger around and Bryzgalov not blowing chunks that team still wasn't a contender after the trades. Remember, at the time we traded our two best centers for a prospect center and...that's it. We really didn't replace what we had lost until Couturier fell to us and he exceeded expectations by miles. When those trades went down we were officially not longer contenders.
Oh yes it was. It put up almost identical numbers as the 10-11 team despite Pronger missing 69 games and Bryzglaov posting a .909 SV%, and it went farther in the playoffs.

Giroux was already our best center in 2011 when they were traded (he got more points and ice time than both Richards and Carter in the regular season and in the playoffs), and Couturier fell to us a few days after the Carter trade happened and was there for the whole 11-12 season. As were Voracek and Simmonds who both scored 49 points.

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05-14-2014, 12:09 PM
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This is pretty cool, Kane is mic'd for the handshake with the Wild.


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05-14-2014, 12:12 PM
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Well. It has only been like 3 months since the last Richards and Carter Trade Debate. Guess we were due for another one haha

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05-14-2014, 12:14 PM
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Well. It has only been like 3 months since the last Richards and Carter Trade Debate. Guess we were due for another one haha
my bad. It will never end.

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05-14-2014, 12:14 PM
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