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Old
05-04-2014, 10:46 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Sedinsquared View Post
Canucks wouldn't touch that deal, you guys are wayyyyyy overvaluing Neal, IMO kesler holds more value in a one for one
Haha, I'm thinking exactly the opposite. No ****ing way would I trade Neal for Kesler and no way are the Pens going to do it.

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05-04-2014, 10:49 AM
  #102
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I would do Neal+Megna for Kesler+Kassian.

However the far easier solution to any woes of the second line is to just sign Kulemin.
Kulemin want's $4m + last time I checked. No thanks.

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05-04-2014, 10:52 AM
  #103
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I don't understand why the Pens would want Kesler, is it to play on the 3rd line or to make him a winger?
Winger with Crosby I'd guess.

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Old
05-04-2014, 11:42 AM
  #104
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I think the idea is going with three elite centres, with kesler being able to snipe in the wing with Crosby on the pp or late in games etc.......

Originally I wasn't warm to the idea of sutter but I see why he may make sense

Sutter pouliot and 2015 first would be a fair deal.
If the pens were also interested in Higgins or Hansen perhaps a 2nd deal could be done

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05-04-2014, 11:53 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by nuckfan insk View Post
I think the idea is going with three elite centres, with kesler being able to snipe in the wing with Crosby on the pp or late in games etc.......

Originally I wasn't warm to the idea of sutter but I see why he may make sense

Sutter pouliot and 2015 first would be a fair deal.
If the pens were also interested in Higgins or Hansen perhaps a 2nd deal could be done
Sutter, Pouliot and a 1st is what Sharks fans want for Pavelski, who's signed for 5 years and had an awesome season. His value is higher than Kesler's, so why would Kesler bring back the same?

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05-04-2014, 11:58 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by nuckfan insk View Post
I think the idea is going with three elite centres, with kesler being able to snipe in the wing with Crosby on the pp or late in games etc.......

Originally I wasn't warm to the idea of sutter but I see why he may make sense

Sutter pouliot and 2015 first would be a fair deal.
If the pens were also interested in Higgins or Hansen perhaps a 2nd deal could be done
Sutter's value has only gone up since the trade deadline, and DP was just named the WHL Defenseman of the Year. Zero chance Shero packages those two together for Kesler now.

I like Kesler and the Nucks, but Gillis blew the Nucks chance to max out Kesler's value with three guaranteed postseasons.

Pens as I said, are much better off using their best assets to pursue a natural young winger like Kane, who by all accounts is available.

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05-04-2014, 12:02 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Sutter's value has only gone up since the trade deadline, and DP was just named the WHL Defenseman of the Year. Zero chance Shero packages those two together for Kesler now.

I like Kesler and the Nucks, but Gillis blew the Nucks chance to max out Kesler's value with three guaranteed postseasons.

Pens as I said, are much better off using their best assets to pursue a natural young winger like Kane, who by all accounts is available.
How did he blow his chance? Up until this season we were perennial contenders with no motivation to trade one of our best players. Trade discussion only became due to our struggles this season. Gillis, or whomever prevented the trade (if rumors are to be believed) did the wise thing refusing a dismal offer from Pittsburgh comprised of Sutter/1st/2nd.

We could care less where Sutter's value is, which is a debatable point to begin with. He remains a depth player, who would be exposed in a consistent top six capacity. We aren't interested in any trade where he's the centerpiece. If that means Kesler sticks around, then so be it.

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05-04-2014, 12:17 PM
  #108
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so Kassian is just some throw in? dream on OP.

turrible proposal.

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05-04-2014, 12:34 PM
  #109
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If I were the Canucks, I'd be open to a Kesler for Pouliot straight swap but not so sure the Pens would at this point

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05-04-2014, 12:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
How did he blow his chance? Up until this season we were perennial contenders with no motivation to trade one of our best players. Trade discussion only became due to our struggles this season. Gillis, or whomever prevented the trade (if rumors are to be believed) did the wise thing refusing a dismal offer from Pittsburgh comprised of Sutter/1st/2nd.

We could care less where Sutter's value is, which is a debatable point to begin with. He remains a depth player, who would be exposed in a consistent top six capacity. We aren't interested in any trade where he's the centerpiece. If that means Kesler sticks around, then so be it.
And the reports here were the offers were more substantial for Kesler than what Gillis said.

Kesler was the big prize at the deadline this year, now there will be a number of big names available this summer, with one less playoff run guaranteed from Kesler. How exactly will his value be higher now?

I'm also not going to argue the value of Sutter anymore with Nuck fans. His body of work since he was given talented linemates speaks for itself and without him, the Pens don't advance past Col. Nuck fans could like him or hate him, it's a small matter to me.

I honestly couldn't care less if Kesler is moved or stays in Vancouver. I just know giving up major assets to acquire him when there are better options like Kane on the market, would be foolish of Shero.

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05-04-2014, 12:40 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
so Kassian is just some throw in? dream on OP.

turrible proposal.
No, actually, Kassian was a contingent part of the deal. Neal is more valuable than Kesler, in our opinion. The most I'd offer would be Neal 1st/2nd for Kesler and Kassian. You guys love Kassian, so there's no point to discuss it. But no, he was absolutely not just some throw in so I don't know why you guys are saying that.

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05-04-2014, 12:43 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Vokouna Maattata View Post
Sutter, Pouliot and a 1st is what Sharks fans want for Pavelski, who's signed for 5 years and had an awesome season. His value is higher than Kesler's, so why would Kesler bring back the same?
I would pay more then that for pavelski
San Jose would be insane to deal pavelski

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05-04-2014, 12:53 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by nuckfan insk View Post
I would pay more then that for pavelski
San Jose would be insane to deal pavelski
They need a shake up due to blowing the 3-0 lead, and Pavelski is one of the players that may get moved. They only want Sutter, Pouliot and a 1st, so I'd gladly oblige to that.

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Originally Posted by Tim McCracken View Post
If I were the Canucks, I'd be open to a Kesler for Pouliot straight swap but not so sure the Pens would at this point
In all honesty, I don't think I would include Pouliot in any deal for Kesler. I'd rather wait and see what Pouliot becomes in the NHL over the next 8 years instead of having Kesler for 2 years only for him to walk in FA. That's why I'm more inclined to trade Pouliot if Pavelski was coming back, but not with Kesler.

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05-04-2014, 01:00 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by nuckfan insk View Post
I think the idea is going with three elite centres, with kesler being able to snipe in the wing with Crosby on the pp or late in games etc.......

Originally I wasn't warm to the idea of sutter but I see why he may make sense

Sutter pouliot and 2015 first would be a fair deal.
If the pens were also interested in Higgins or Hansen perhaps a 2nd deal could be done
Sutter pouliout and a 1st is nowhere near fair value now for kesler.

Pouliots value has gone up significantly, and sutters value as a player and to the pens has gone up as well.

Canucks should have taken the deal at the trade deadline. If im shero, i keep sutter and give him decent wingers. He's the pens top pk player on one of the top pk teams the last few years.

Looking back, i cant believe pens fans wanted him gone because of his offensive numbers when he was playing with trash.

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05-04-2014, 02:19 PM
  #115
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A 2-way center would have more value than a goal scoring winger, if everything else was equal. But the rest isn't equal. Neal is younger, signed for longer and had a much better season. There is no possible rational argument for Kesler being more valuable than Neal.
Sure there is, look at the teams they play on. Put Kesler on the Pens and Neal on the Canucks, and there would be 0 doubts Kesler would be more valuable unless you are hung on a few years age difference.

Quote:
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If I were the Canucks, I'd be open to a Kesler for Pouliot straight swap but not so sure the Pens would at this point
Canucks would never do that.

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05-04-2014, 02:25 PM
  #116
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And the reports here were the offers were more substantial for Kesler than what Gillis said.

Kesler was the big prize at the deadline this year, now there will be a number of big names available this summer, with one less playoff run guaranteed from Kesler. How exactly will his value be higher now?

I'm also not going to argue the value of Sutter anymore with Nuck fans. His body of work since he was given talented linemates speaks for itself and without him, the Pens don't advance past Col. Nuck fans could like him or hate him, it's a small matter to me.

I honestly couldn't care less if Kesler is moved or stays in Vancouver. I just know giving up major assets to acquire him when there are better options like Kane on the market, would be foolish of Shero.
I think Sutter's earned an extension with his play since the trade deadline. As you said, no way we get past Columbus without him. He definitely seems like a guy who can provide solid secondary scoring if you give him some talent to work with. I just wasn't sold on him as the right 3C for this team since we really have been lacking grit in our top 9. But he's playing as hard as any player on the roster now.

I still say Kesler is worth going after though. We should be thinking about the next few years as must win. Kesler makes us a significantly harder team to play against. Fits the mold of what Sid could use on his RW. Fast, tenacious, defensively responsible, goes to the net and would have the second hardest shot on the team next to Neal.

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05-04-2014, 02:27 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Vokouna Maattata View Post
They need a shake up due to blowing the 3-0 lead, and Pavelski is one of the players that may get moved. They only want Sutter, Pouliot and a 1st, so I'd gladly oblige to that.



In all honesty, I don't think I would include Pouliot in any deal for Kesler. I'd rather wait and see what Pouliot becomes in the NHL over the next 8 years instead of having Kesler for 2 years only for him to walk in FA. That's why I'm more inclined to trade Pouliot if Pavelski was coming back, but not with Kesler.
Just cause they might need one doesn't mean they will do one, Sharks are a playoff team and playoffs mean more money for the owners, their owners aren't just going to start selling the team off when their a legit playoff team. I'd be pretty surprised if they did make big moves to the core... Its easy for fans to say but in the world of business it isn't just that easy to do.

If Pouliot isn't on the table there is no reason to talk about it as Pens really don't have anything else worth it for us. We're not going to give our best player on a killer contract away for the good of your team, there needs to be something worthwhile in it for the Canucks too. Also, reports are that Kesler might not want to be moved now with Gillis and Torts gone and Linden here now. If no good deal cN be made Canucks keeping Kesler to mentor Horvat will be a great thing for Horvats development.

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05-04-2014, 02:50 PM
  #118
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No, actually, Kassian was a contingent part of the deal. Neal is more valuable than Kesler, in our opinion. The most I'd offer would be Neal 1st/2nd for Kesler and Kassian. You guys love Kassian, so there's no point to discuss it. But no, he was absolutely not just some throw in so I don't know why you guys are saying that.
probably because Neal/Kesler are similar in value so adding Kassian makes it a joke.

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05-04-2014, 02:53 PM
  #119
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probably because Neal/Kesler are similar in value so adding Kassian makes it a joke.
Except they're not, that's the thing. They're similar in skillsets (I'd say Kesler is better), but that and more is made up by contract status, age and recent production.

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05-04-2014, 03:01 PM
  #120
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Except they're not, that's the thing. They're similar in skillsets (I'd say Kesler is better), but that and more is made up by contract status, age and recent production.
You make it sound like Neal is 22 on 4-6 year deal worth 3.5-4 Million.

There is a 3 year age difference, same cap hit, Neal has 3 more years left on his deal but does that mean Kesler can't be extended? No.

Again, if Kesler was on the Pens last season, and Neal was on the Canucks last season, I don't doubt who would be considered more valuable.

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05-04-2014, 03:37 PM
  #121
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I think Sutter's earned an extension with his play since the trade deadline. As you said, no way we get past Columbus without him. He definitely seems like a guy who can provide solid secondary scoring if you give him some talent to work with. I just wasn't sold on him as the right 3C for this team since we really have been lacking grit in our top 9. But he's playing as hard as any player on the roster now.

I still say Kesler is worth going after though. We should be thinking about the next few years as must win. Kesler makes us a significantly harder team to play against. Fits the mold of what Sid could use on his RW. Fast, tenacious, defensively responsible, goes to the net and would have the second hardest shot on the team next to Neal.
Sutter is filling the third line pivot role well, so I don't see a need for Kesler. Why waste assets when Kesler will be some hybrid third pivot that sometimes may play with Crosby?

Kane is much younger and a much better fit in a glaring area of need. He brings the speed, size, skill and toughness at the wing position the Pens need. He also has a great cap hit and is signed long term.

If Shero has to dangle Neal, I'm more than fine with that. Crosby - Kane with Malkin - BB is exactly the kind of direction this org needs to head. Leech free.

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05-04-2014, 05:00 PM
  #122
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He played the best hockey of his life with Megna and Jokinen before the Marchand incident.
Is he still playing on a line with Megna and Jokinen?

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05-04-2014, 05:06 PM
  #123
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Sutter is filling the third line pivot role well, so I don't see a need for Kesler. Why waste assets when Kesler will be some hybrid third pivot that sometimes may play with Crosby?

Kane is much younger and a much better fit in a glaring area of need. He brings the speed, size, skill and toughness at the wing position the Pens need. He also has a great cap hit and is signed long term.

If Shero has to dangle Neal, I'm more than fine with that. Crosby - Kane with Malkin - BB is exactly the kind of direction this org needs to head. Leech free.
Yeah that's where I'm at. Maybe Neal channels his earlier form when he was trying to make the Olympic team this year and he and Malkin go on a tear and get us out of the East.

But the more I see Neal and Malkin, the more I think Malkin with Beau and a Kunitz/Kulemin type is more than enough for him. Sid needs the most help at the moment. Move Neal up there for the time being. And if he isn't helping that line much, see what you can get for him in the offseason.

You've been on it for awhile, but we desperately need another winger who can create on his own. And we've been hearing for years now that our depth on defense will get us that player. Still waiting.

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05-04-2014, 05:15 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Sutter is filling the third line pivot role well, so I don't see a need for Kesler. Why waste assets when Kesler will be some hybrid third pivot that sometimes may play with Crosby?

Kane is much younger and a much better fit in a glaring area of need. He brings the speed, size, skill and toughness at the wing position the Pens need. He also has a great cap hit and is signed long term.

If Shero has to dangle Neal, I'm more than fine with that. Crosby - Kane with Malkin - BB is exactly the kind of direction this org needs to head. Leech free.
You barely have the pieces to land Kesler... How are you going to land Kane ? They got great young D man, I think they need centers and scoring, which I don't see why they'd be willing to go from Kane to Neal? That makes no sense for them, easy to say you'll just go get Kane but he won't be an easy piece to just go and get, I'd love the Canucks to just go and get Kane too and bring him home to BC but the reality of that isn't very likely. And of course you'll be fine with dangling Neal to land Kane lol but why would the Jets do this?


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05-04-2014, 05:47 PM
  #125
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You barely have the pieces to land Kesler... How are you going to land Kane ? They got great young D man, I think they need centers and scoring, which I don't see why they'd be willing to go from Kane to Neal? That makes no sense for them, easy to say you'll just go get Kane but he won't be an easy piece to just go and get, I'd love the Canucks to just go and get Kane too and bring him home to BC but the reality of that isn't very likely. And of course you'll be fine with dangling Neal to land Kane lol but why would the Jets do this?
Barely have the pieces to land Kesler? Please. The pieces needed to land Kesler aren't worth it. The Pens certainly have the pieces, but it's a foolish move. They don't need another center. How hard is that to understand?

As far as Kane goes, landing any big name player isn't a given, who ever said it was? However, it's been reported by enough legit sources Kane will be on the block this Summer, so it isn't wishful thinking the Jets may want to move him.

But according to you, the Jets would have no interest in an elite goal scorer on a sweetheart deal like Neal? Right.

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