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Old
05-19-2014, 09:42 AM
  #1
04' hockey
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39 & counting.....

GREAT article

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...fies_odds.html

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05-19-2014, 09:48 AM
  #2
JDinkalage Morgoone
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It sucks to read that. It's all about how you define success. The Flyers are the most "successful" franchise in hockey since the expansion, but haven't had the ultimate success in 40 years.

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05-19-2014, 10:01 AM
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It's a combination of bad luck and the fact that it's really hard to win a championship. This is the same story that's been written over and over again since the summer of 2011.

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05-19-2014, 10:10 AM
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MickeyMelchiondo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
The Flyers are the most "successful" franchise in hockey since the expansion,
most of that is ancient history
last 25 years; didn't make the playoffs in 7 of those years, and lost in the 1st round in 7 of those years also. That's not very good.

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05-19-2014, 10:32 AM
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JDinkalage Morgoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMelchiondo View Post
most of that is ancient history
last 25 years; didn't make the playoffs in 7 of those years, and lost in the 1st round in 7 of those years also. That's not very good.
regular season wins is what i am referring to. Missed the playoffs 7 times, but we've also seen some damn good teams.

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05-19-2014, 10:39 AM
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zarley zelepukin
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Seems like we've been to the finals an awful lot since then. What are we, 0-6? I mean, you'd think we'd get at least one out of six.

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05-19-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMelchiondo View Post
most of that is ancient history
last 25 years; didn't make the playoffs in 7 of those years, and lost in the 1st round in 7 of those years also. That's not very good.
Yes...but in the last 20 years, they have missed the playoff 2 times and 1 was in the shortened season. That is quite good.

Reality is we are 0-6 in our last 6 visits to the Cup finals. But we also had bad luck. We lost to the Montreal dynasty, the NYI one, 2x Edmonton one, Detroit who won 3 in 6 years, and then Chicago who won 2 in 4 years.

Every time we get there, we meet the best teams of that era. We never get there in the years that there are upsets.

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05-19-2014, 10:45 AM
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JDinkalage Morgoone
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I think if the Flyers ended up winning in 1987, they would be bigger legends than the 70s team. Dethroning a dynasty with the top 2 leading scorers of all time and multiple other hall of famers?

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05-19-2014, 11:20 AM
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MickeyMelchiondo
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Yes...but in the last 20 years, they have missed the playoff 2 times and 1 was in the shortened season. That is quite good.
quite good is a stretch
more than half the teams in the league make the playoffs every year

I'm not trying to be overly pessimistic, I just don't really agree with that article's tone-I think the Flyers were legit Cup contenders probably 4-5 times in the last 20 years, which is probably above average in comparison to the rest of the league.

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05-19-2014, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MickeyMelchiondo View Post
quite good is a stretch
more than half the teams in the league make the playoffs every year
Yeah, but not more than half the teams have made it 18 times out of the last 20. I guess in the end it boils down to your definition of what's a good team. Is a team that wins 2 or 3 Stanley cups in 20 years, but makes the playoffs only 10 times out of 20, better than a team that makes the playoffs every time, goes to the finals without success on a couple of occasions, but otherwise flares out earlier? There's no right or wrong answer here.

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05-19-2014, 11:35 AM
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KJS14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMelchiondo View Post
quite good is a stretch
more than half the teams in the league make the playoffs every year

I'm not trying to be overly pessimistic, I just don't really agree with that article's tone-I think the Flyers were legit Cup contenders probably 4-5 times in the last 20 years, which is probably above average in comparison to the rest of the league.
I don't see how quite good is a stretch. If it was so easy to remain competitive every year then why are the Red Wings the only team to make the playoffs more times than us in the last 20 years? I'd say it's a pretty notable accomplishment.

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05-19-2014, 11:47 AM
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MickeyMelchiondo
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I don't see how quite good is a stretch. If it was so easy to remain competitive every year then why are the Red Wings the only team to make the playoffs more times than us in the last 20 years? I'd say it's a pretty notable accomplishment.
I just don't think it's that much of an accomplishment.
You're talking about a lot of years when they were in the group of 16 of only 26 teams to make the playoffs, now 16 of 30 for the last 10 or so years. It just really means you weren't totally crappy, not exactly competitive every year.

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05-19-2014, 11:49 AM
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Angelo Cataldi (WIP Philly morning host) said he'd rather be like the Florida Marlins. Win a championship and then be the worst team in the league for ten years, then win again, and then be the worst team in the league for 10 years.

I mean a Cup would be great, but I don't know if I could go into 18 seasons KNOWING that they would be the worst team. And everybody knows the Marlins are always a bottom 5 team every year.

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05-19-2014, 11:57 AM
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I view the Flyers as highly successful, but unlucky. I 100% want them to follow the same model in the next 40 years. Chances are, if they overall have the best regular season record they will win multiple cups. Media and fans that complain about the Flyers culture are delusional if they think there is some smarter way around (ie. tank and win etc.).

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05-19-2014, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Angelo Cataldi (WIP Philly morning host) said he'd rather be like the Florida Marlins. Win a championship and then be the worst team in the league for ten years, then win again, and then be the worst team in the league for 10 years.

I mean a Cup would be great, but I don't know if I could go into 18 seasons KNOWING that they would be the worst team. And everybody knows the Marlins are always a bottom 5 team every year.
Yeah, I want my team to be owned by Jeffrey Loria. Sure. I'm still not sure how that guy hasn't been stoned to death by the residents of Miami.

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05-19-2014, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
Angelo Cataldi (WIP Philly morning host) said he'd rather be like the Florida Marlins. Win a championship and then be the worst team in the league for ten years, then win again, and then be the worst team in the league for 10 years.

I mean a Cup would be great, but I don't know if I could go into 18 seasons KNOWING that they would be the worst team. And everybody knows the Marlins are always a bottom 5 team every year.
The grass is always greener.

I think people look at this sort of thing out of context. As somebody said before me here, 0-6 looks bad, and then you look at the teams we had to play... 70's Canadiens, 80's Islanders, 80's Oilers, 90's Red Wings, and in 2010, another possible dynasty in the Blackhawks.

Another thing - I think our win percentage is so high because we're consistent. Not always at the top of the league, but we almost always make the playoffs. The only team to make the playoffs more than us in the last 20 years is the Red Wings, but before that, they were bottom feeders for a number of years. We've never experienced that for an extended length of time, and I think that boosts the number a bit.

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05-19-2014, 12:10 PM
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MickeyMelchiondo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Media and fans that complain about the Flyers culture are delusional if they think there is some smarter way around (ie. tank and win etc.).
teams that experienced horrible stretches of play [tanking?], were not competitive at all from approximately 1999 through about 2007, and built largely through the draft have now won 4 of the last 5 Cups and that may turn into 5 of the last 6 Cups in a few weeks time.

I am not saying that is "smarter."

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05-19-2014, 12:20 PM
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It's hard to fathom a team being so consistently competitive with for so long with so little to show for it.

I'd rather watch them have a shot every year rather than suffer through 5-10 years of garbage though.

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05-19-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MickeyMelchiondo View Post
I just don't think it's that much of an accomplishment.
You're talking about a lot of years when they were in the group of 16 of only 26 teams to make the playoffs, now 16 of 30 for the last 10 or so years. It just really means you weren't totally crappy, not exactly competitive every year.
Finishing that high all the time means you are almost never in the top half of the first round of the draft. That's tough to overcome.

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05-19-2014, 12:23 PM
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Overall, the Flyers are a great franchise. And as Ron Hextall stated in his presser, other teams around the league view them as so. We've just become so jaded as a fanbase (understandably so. A 39 year cup drought will do that) that we lose focus of that or we just don't want to hear it. Now, they definitely have their faults, no doubt. We all know what they are. But for anyone to call it a failing franchise, doesn't know what a true failing franchise really is. Go ask a Blue Jackets fan, a Pens fan that was around before Malkin and Crosby, a Cleveland Brown fans what a failing franchise is.

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05-19-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post


It's hard to fathom a team being so consistently competitive with for so long with so little to show for it.

I'd rather watch them have a shot every year rather than suffer through 5-10 years of garbage though.
Like the Phillies right now. Except I wouldn't say they are garbage, but extremely mediocre.

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05-19-2014, 12:34 PM
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Absolutely I would take a 2 cups in 6 years and then be terrible for the next 5-10. Where do I sign up?

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05-19-2014, 12:41 PM
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0-6 still hurts in the cup finals, no matter who you play.

Albeit, the Flyers have been extremely unlucky in their match-ups. It still sucks regardless.

The article just made me frustrated out of nowhere, lol.

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05-19-2014, 12:44 PM
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Well Angelo is a hypocrite (probably be design), he claims he'd sell his soul for a championship like the marlins, then suck for 10 years, but then in the next breath he *****es about the Phillies sucking. Their championship was a little over 7 years ago and they've been successful too.

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05-19-2014, 12:48 PM
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KJS14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMelchiondo View Post
I just don't think it's that much of an accomplishment.
You're talking about a lot of years when they were in the group of 16 of only 26 teams to make the playoffs, now 16 of 30 for the last 10 or so years. It just really means you weren't totally crappy, not exactly competitive every year.
Ok then lets look at their standing in each year since 1994.

1994-95: 1st Atlantic, 3rd East, 5th NHL (Lost ECF)*
1995-96: 1st Atlantic, 1st East, 3rd NHL (Lost 2nd Round)
1996-97: 2nd Atlantic, 2nd East, 4th NHL (Lost SCF)*
1997-98: 3rd Atlantic, 3rd East, 6th NHL (Lost 1st Round)
1998-99: 2nd Atlantic, 4th East, 7th NHL (Lost 1st Round)
1999-00: 1st Atlantic, 1st East, 3rd NHL (Lost ECF)*
2000-01: 2nd Atlantic, 3rd East, 7th NHL (Lost 1st Round)
2001-02: 1st Atlantic, 3rd East, 7th NHL (Lost 1st Round)
2002-03: 2nd Atlantic, 3rd East, 5th NHL (Lost 2nd Round)
2003-04: 1st Atlantic, 5th East, 7th NHL (Lost ECF)*
2004-05: Lockout
2005-06: 2nd Atlantic, 5th East, 9th NHL (Lost 1st Round)
2006-07: 5th Atlantic, 15th East, 30th NHL (Missed Playoffs)
2007-08: 4th Atlantic, 6th East, 11th NHL (Lost ECF)
2008-09: 3rd Atlantic, 5th East, 9th NHL (Lost 1st Round)*
2009-10: 3rd Atlantic, 7th East, 18th NHL (Lost SCF)*
2010-11: 1st Atlantic, 2nd East, 3rd NHL (Lost 2nd Round)*
2011-12: 3rd Atlantic, 3rd East, 6th NHL (Lost 2nd Round)
2012-13: 4th Atlantic, 10th East, 20th NHL (Missed Playoffs)
2013-14: 3rd Atlantic, 6th East, 13th NHL (Lost 1st Round)

*Lost to eventual Stanley Cup Champion

So here's some stats to go along with that:

1st Atlantic: 31.6% (6/19)
2nd Atlantic: 26.3% (5/19) Cumulative: 57.9% (11/19)
3rd Atlantic: 26.3% (5/19) Cumulative: 84.2% (16/19)

1st East: 10.5% (2/19)
2nd East: 10.5% (2/19) Cumulative: 21.1% (4/19)
3rd East: 31.6% (6/19) Cumulative: 52.6% (10/19)

Top 3 NHL: 15.8% (3/19)
Top 5 NHL: 15.8% (3/19) Cumulative: 31.6% (6/19)
Top 10 NHL: 42.1% (8/19) Cumulative: 73.7% (14/19)

Reached SCF: 10.5% (2/19)
Reached ECF: 21.1% (4/19) Cumulative: 31.6% (6/19)

I'd say that's pretty impressive considering that the Atlantic Division was probably the most competitive in the NHL for at least 10 of those years. The Flyers were top 3 in the East in over half of those years (10/19) and top 5 in the NHL in almost a third of them (6/19).

Based on these stats, I'd argue that the Flyers have been one of the four best overall teams (Detroit, Colorado, New Jersey being the others) in the NHL over the last 20 years.

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