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Shayne Gostisbehere 2014-2015

View Poll Results: When/Where do you want to see Ghost
Yes, right away 29 23.02%
No, 1 full year in the AHL 31 24.60%
AHL first, then NHL call up (if so how soon) 66 52.38%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-05-2014, 09:16 AM
  #51
sa cyred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Even saying talent is a stretch. I know the kid can play and is talented. No doubt. But making such statements based on his play against college kids is a bit risky. Don't take this as me saying he is going to fail or anything like that, but he's never played in the NHL. If you are saying he has the talent TO BECOME a top four defenseman, then ok. But having never played against NHL players, it is a pretty bold statement for you to say he has the talent of a top four defender right now.
I can see what they are saying. It's like saying Scott Laughton is more talented than Zac Rinaldo. Doesnt mean he is in the NHL or anything like that but skill wise he is better. (maybe they should of said offensive skill or potenial NHL skill). Now he might not play in the NHL because of other reasons (defense, too skinny etc etc)but offensive skill set is NHL quality. His skating, slapshot and speed, no matter what level, is pretty damn good. If he is hitting 95 mph or whatever he was getting in college on the slapshot, good chance he does that in the NHL. I think you are reading what they are saying wrong but I can see what you are saying.

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Old
05-05-2014, 09:35 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I can see what they are saying. It's like saying Scott Laughton is more talented than Zac Rinaldo. Doesnt mean he is in the NHL or anything like that but skill wise he is better. (maybe they should of said offensive skill or potenial NHL skill). Now he might not play in the NHL because of other reasons (defense, too skinny etc etc)but offensive skill set is NHL quality. His skating, slapshot and speed, no matter what level, is pretty damn good. If he is hitting 95 mph or whatever he was getting in college on the slapshot, good chance he does that in the NHL. I think you are reading what they are saying wrong but I can see what you are saying.
I've got no problem if you say he can be a top four guy, has the potential to be a top four guy, or even has the talent to be a top four guy. But before he ever steps on NHL ice to say he has the talent OF A (not to become a) top four guy RIGHT NOW is a stretch. I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm not even saying it is a stretch for him to be a top four guy or whatever, but for the vast majority of players having never played in the NHL (especially a third round draft pick coming out of the NCAA), it is too much to make these types of statements.

EDIT: Also, making this distinction between saying he has the talent of a top four guy and saying he is a top four guy is dubious at best. If he has the talent of a top four guy, shouldn't he be a top four guy? Sounds like saying it in a way that if you are wrong about him being a top four player, you can say, "I never said he WAS a top four guy, I said he has top four TALENT, which he does or at least you can't prove that he doesn't because it isn't something you can measure."

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05-05-2014, 10:00 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Manning?! Kidding right? Manning defensively was a train wreck. There is a reason why Alt was considered the first callup while Manning being called u was not even mentioned by Homer. I would say Alt took over that #1 spot. Halfway through the season Alt was playing on the top pairing, PK and PP. Manning started there but he started to get less time because of his poor defensive play. I had high hopes for Manning but thats 2 average seasons in a row.
Why are we even arguing?

Manning is garbage but he was used like the Phantoms #1 for most of the last 2 season.
Hägg is better. And I think he may become an option to make the Flyers next season because he got more experience than any other D prospect.


Last edited by dats81: 05-05-2014 at 01:29 PM.
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05-05-2014, 10:30 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I've got no problem if you say he can be a top four guy, has the potential to be a top four guy, or even has the talent to be a top four guy. But before he ever steps on NHL ice to say he has the talent OF A (not to become a) top four guy RIGHT NOW is a stretch. I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm not even saying it is a stretch for him to be a top four guy or whatever, but for the vast majority of players having never played in the NHL (especially a third round draft pick coming out of the NCAA), it is too much to make these types of statements.

EDIT: Also, making this distinction between saying he has the talent of a top four guy and saying he is a top four guy is dubious at best. If he has the talent of a top four guy, shouldn't he be a top four guy? Sounds like saying it in a way that if you are wrong about him being a top four player, you can say, "I never said he WAS a top four guy, I said he has top four TALENT, which he does or at least you can't prove that he doesn't because it isn't something you can measure."
Dont know man. It all depends. He can have the talent, like I said, but might not put it together. There were many players with the toolset but no toolbox .

Example of what they are saying is like Tampa fans saying Drouin has the talent as a top 6 player. Doesnt mean he is or will be but his skill is of a top 6. This is what I took it as.


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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Why are we even arguing?

Manning is garbage but he was used like the Phantoms for most of the last 2 season.
Hägg is better. And I think he may become an option to make the Flyers next season because he got more experience than any other D prospect.
Dont know. Took you saying that about Manning as if he did well or their top defender. Misunderstood. Sorry about that. Had someone tell me a few weeks ago on here that The Dane has been their top defender when Oliver has been playing average on the 3rd pairing all season long. Maybe I jumped on ya alittle to fast .

On Hagg I can see what people are saying. He does have a good chance based off his playing in a mens league. Haggs consistency was better during the Phantoms stint.

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05-05-2014, 10:30 AM
  #55
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On a side note...anybody hear Morganti in a post game commentary about Ghost butcher his last name...probably the worst I have heard....

Anyway..as much as we need an immediate savior on D...doubt Ghost will be that next year although I am sure he will show glimpses. I am sure him and Hagg will be better than Gus though...

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05-05-2014, 10:36 AM
  #56
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I am sure him and Hagg will be better than Gus though...
and a 40 year old Timonen
out wiff the old, in wiff the new

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05-05-2014, 11:18 AM
  #57
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To all those dogging Manning: He looked okay when he was up. NHL =/= AHL. In the end, maybe it would play itself out. Maybe he would need to be sheltered or was sheltered or may get sent back down, but he is far from "garbage."

I voted for AHL, then NHL if able. The AHL is a good tier stronger and he'll get more rest between games in the AHL over a much much much longer schedule than he is used to. The NHL is grueling and games are tightly packed. Take a step. Evaluate. If good, take another step.

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05-05-2014, 11:32 AM
  #58
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I voted AHL call up, because I'm kind of between that option and the full year of AHL. I think if he is doing excellent in the AHL meaning he is on the top pairing and playing very well \ on special teams or at least the PP then he deserves to come up. I think he should be down in the AHL for a minimum of half the season. He probably isn't ready to start in the NHL immediately and playing half a season of AHL games will provide a better gauge of his preparedness than pre-season games will. Additionally it is unlikely that playing in the AHL for a season or less will hamper him in any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Manning doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence with Hagg. The only other Phantom you could argue played as well was Alt. I'm really hoping Hagg surprises some people and makes the team. As much as I would love to see Ghost, I think he'll get exposed defensively. He's very depended on his speed, he would just blow past people. In the NHL he won't be able to do that as often.
I would kind of like Alt to be the 7th defenseman depending on tht lineup.


Last edited by ilovetheflyers8: 05-05-2014 at 11:51 AM.
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Old
05-05-2014, 01:42 PM
  #59
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Most fans feel happy for their prospects when they are finally getting their first cup of tea with the big club. The Flyers' fanbase crap their pants over rushing their young defensemen just because there once used to be a young player player called Joni Pitkanen who was a headcase, got smoked by the media and wanted out. One unfortunate bounce in a decade... not counting Ryan "Rubber-Spine" Parent or Luca Sbisa who was a reach at his draft position from the beginning.

We have enough Veterans on the team to provide guidance and leadership and I don't see why we can't have at least 1 Rookie to start the season if he earns a spot in camp!

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05-05-2014, 03:36 PM
  #60
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If Ghost has a good camp, he should be on the big club.

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05-05-2014, 07:51 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by SeanCWombBroom View Post
To all those dogging Manning: He looked okay when he was up. NHL =/= AHL. In the end, maybe it would play itself out. Maybe he would need to be sheltered or was sheltered or may get sent back down, but he is far from "garbage."

I voted for AHL, then NHL if able. The AHL is a good tier stronger and he'll get more rest between games in the AHL over a much much much longer schedule than he is used to. The NHL is grueling and games are tightly packed. Take a step. Evaluate. If good, take another step.
He may not be as bad as I made him out to be but he's down on the organization's depth chart and deservedly so.

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05-05-2014, 08:01 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
He may not be as bad as I made him out to be but he's down on the organization's depth chart and deservedly so.
I'm not even sure he'll be under-contract by the Flyers next year, he's been here for a while now & keeps getting passed up by every young defender we bring into the organization.

He was fine during his stint last year at the end of the year but so were guys like Lauridsen & Konan so I really don't put much stock into it especially since Mason was playing out his mind & carrying the team towards the end.

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05-05-2014, 08:11 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
On a side note...anybody hear Morganti in a post game commentary about Ghost butcher his last name...probably the worst I have heard....

Anyway..as much as we need an immediate savior on D...doubt Ghost will be that next year although I am sure he will show glimpses. I am sure him and Hagg will be better than Gus though...
I saw/heard it. At first he didn't want to say his name. So he just said 'the kid from Union'. Then later he tried to say his name and looked like an *******. It was totally pathetic. It was just another example of the Philly hockey writers showing how useless they are.

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05-05-2014, 08:18 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I'm not even sure he'll be under-contract by the Flyers next year, he's been here for a while now & keeps getting passed up by every young defender we bring into the organization.

He was fine during his stint last year at the end of the year but so were guys like Lauridsen & Konan so I really don't put much stock into it especially since Mason was playing out his mind & carrying the team towards the end.
Yeah, his development has been stagnant now for two years it seems like. Watching him his first year he really made some nice adjustments and looked good in his first 4 games. I thought it was all up from there. Fast forward to today and he's gonna be 24 and further down the depth chart.

I could see them letting him go. I could also see them bringing him back cause I know they like his leadership (for the Phantoms I mean, he wears an A).

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05-05-2014, 08:41 PM
  #65
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If Gostisbehere doesnt have his outstanding performance in the Frozen Four, are we even having this discussion?

Im not trying to be a smart ass, Im legitimately wondering about that.

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05-05-2014, 08:43 PM
  #66
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He needs to work on his defense before he's an NHL regular. Someone else posted ITT that describes his dzone play perfectly: passive. He won't ever be a stalwart defensively, and he has improved immensely from when I first saw him in 2012, but it's still not at an NHL level.

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05-05-2014, 08:49 PM
  #67
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If Gostisbehere doesnt have his outstanding performance in the Frozen Four, are we even having this discussion?

Im not trying to be a smart ass, Im legitimately wondering about that.
Yes. He was already one of the best NCAA players before the Frozen Four.

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05-05-2014, 08:52 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
He needs to work on his defense before he's an NHL regular. Someone else posted ITT that describes his dzone play perfectly: passive. He won't ever be a stalwart defensively, and he has improved immensely from when I first saw him in 2012, but it's not at an NHL level.
It's always going to be passive. He doesn't have the size to physically challenge anyone. He's going to rely on his legs, positioning, and stick his entire career. His puck retrieval abilities alone would make him valuable to the team next year.

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05-05-2014, 08:52 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Tedeward View Post
If Gostisbehere doesnt have his outstanding performance in the Frozen Four, are we even having this discussion?
Why are you asking this? He did and that's all that matters. That said, between the two I've been more impressed with Hagg at the World Juniors (yeah, small sample size and the tournament doesn't translate to the NHL, but Hagg is Swedish and Gostisbehere is American), so if we are to have this premature opinion forming without a training camp to base it on, advantage Hagg. Hence, Gostisbehere in the AHL, but with a taste of the NHL sometime during the course of the season.

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05-05-2014, 08:52 PM
  #70
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Yes. He was already one of the best NCAA players before the Frozen Four.
I agree but all the hype came from the championship game imo.

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05-05-2014, 08:53 PM
  #71
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I agree but all the hype came from the championship game imo.
Not if you were paying attention.

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05-05-2014, 09:21 PM
  #72
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I agree but all the hype came from the championship game imo.
His hype outside of the Flyers organization has been raised significantly because of what he did in the frozen four, but if you paid any attention to him, which I am sure the Flyers staff has, you would have realized that he is a very very good hockey player. He was not the best defenseman in college hockey thanks to two games.

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05-05-2014, 09:26 PM
  #73
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I would kind of like Alt to be the 7th defenseman depending on tht lineup.
He needs to play everyday. Playing 15 games a year is not good for a kid considered a raw prospect. Wait until he's out of options to make him a 7th defenseman. Other than that it's not very smart.

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Why are you asking this? He did and that's all that matters. That said, between the two I've been more impressed with Hagg at the World Juniors (yeah, small sample size and the tournament doesn't translate to the NHL, but Hagg is Swedish and Gostisbehere is American), so if we are to have this premature opinion forming without a training camp to base it on, advantage Hagg. Hence, Gostisbehere in the AHL, but with a taste of the NHL sometime during the course of the season.
What are you trying to say?

I think for Hagg to get anything more than a cup of coffee next season, he needs to carve out a distinct role in the AHL. I think just being a decent size kid that can skate will only take him so far. Will he be a point producer? A shutdown guy? A true two-way guy? He needs at least a year in the AHL to do so in my opinion. Gostisbehere on the other hand, you know what he is bringing to the table. To make it as a LHD on this team (a young guys amongst veterans), you need to have a standout quality.

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05-05-2014, 09:29 PM
  #74
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What are you trying to say?
Which part of my post is unclear to you?

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05-05-2014, 09:48 PM
  #75
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Which part of my post is unclear to you?
Everything but the last sentence. Are you suggesting Hagg's performance in the World Juniors should put him ahead of Gostisbehere? Gostisbehere was actually pretty good before he got suspended and essentially relegated to 7th defenseman. You could argue, after Jones and Trouba he was one of the best defensemen on the team. Hagg was OK, but he didn't do enough the shed the label of a guy that leaves you wanting more.


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