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Old
05-12-2014, 10:38 PM
  #526
Staghorn
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Spezza and Cowen FOR Eberle. Put untradeable Gagner on the wing.

Spezza on a line with Taylor Hall would work. Cowen is a good DMan, top 4 guy.

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05-12-2014, 10:40 PM
  #527
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Phaneuf + Kadri + Kulemin + 2nd in 2014 for Gagner + 1st in 2014
1st in 2015 + Marincin to WPG for Byfuglien

Phaneuf-Petry
Klefbom-Byfuglien
Ference-Schultz

Sign my ass up.

EDIT: Just adding some bonus info to this. I actually think if we can find a way to hold onto Gagner from the Leafs deal, maybe shipping him to the Jets in the Byfuglien trade makes it more likely the Jets say yes. However, imagine we could go forward with a core of:
Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, Kadri, Perron, Phaneuf, Byfuglien, Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz
I would like that a lot. For all of the knocks on Dion and Dustin, if you put them together on one team, I wonder if the sharing of the load makes for wonders here.


Last edited by Paralyzer008: 05-12-2014 at 10:56 PM.
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05-12-2014, 10:45 PM
  #528
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staghorn View Post
Spezza and Cowen FOR Eberle. Put untradeable Gagner on the wing.

Spezza on a line with Taylor Hall would work. Cowen is a good DMan, top 4 guy.
Cowen is just another Luke Schenn. Meanwhile Spezza is an injury prone 30 year old with 1 year on his contract. Eberle is off limits in a deal like that.

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05-12-2014, 11:14 PM
  #529
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I don't see Spezza coming here, he has a NMC doesn't he? I don't know how high Linden is on Kesler, but I could see those two swapping if the rumours that they both want out are true.

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05-12-2014, 11:30 PM
  #530
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We aren't on Spezza's list guys

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05-12-2014, 11:50 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Aaaaaron View Post
I don't see Spezza coming here, he has a NMC doesn't he? I don't know how high Linden is on Kesler, but I could see those two swapping if the rumours that they both want out are true.
Spezza is perfect for a team like the Blues. A team that thinks they can go all in for one year.

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05-13-2014, 08:06 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Phaneuf + Kadri + Kulemin + 2nd in 2014 for Gagner + 1st in 2014
1st in 2015 + Marincin to WPG for Byfuglien

Phaneuf-Petry
Klefbom-Byfuglien
Ference-Schultz

Sign my ass up.

EDIT: Just adding some bonus info to this. I actually think if we can find a way to hold onto Gagner from the Leafs deal, maybe shipping him to the Jets in the Byfuglien trade makes it more likely the Jets say yes. However, imagine we could go forward with a core of:
Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, Kadri, Perron, Phaneuf, Byfuglien, Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz
I would like that a lot. For all of the knocks on Dion and Dustin, if you put them together on one team, I wonder if the sharing of the load makes for wonders here.
Salary cap?

Assuming that Petry gets the same number as Ference at $3.25m per (which would be remarkable for a first line player) and that Schultz takes a bridge deal for $2.75m, you're looking at $22.35m for 6 defenders. Add the players listed above, Hall (6m), Eberle (6m), RNH (6m), Yakupov (<3m in 15-16), Kadri (2.9m, RFA in 15-16), Perron (3.8m), and you've got $50.1m in cap committed to 12 players (not including Kulemin, who's UFA, anyway.)

You might be able to keep the team together for one season (next season.) After that, you'll be forced to move assets.

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05-13-2014, 08:20 AM
  #533
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Would you guys be on board if something happened around phaneuf for 2015 1st? Its very understandable that ur 3rd overall is not getting moved.

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05-13-2014, 08:22 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by victor View Post
Salary cap?

Assuming that Petry gets the same number as Ference at $3.25m per (which would be remarkable for a first line player) and that Schultz takes a bridge deal for $2.75m, you're looking at $22.35m for 6 defenders. Add the players listed above, Hall (6m), Eberle (6m), RNH (6m), Yakupov (<3m in 15-16), Kadri (2.9m, RFA in 15-16), Perron (3.8m), and you've got $50.1m in cap committed to 12 players (not including Kulemin, who's UFA, anyway.)

You might be able to keep the team together for one season (next season.) After that, you'll be forced to move assets.
The salary cap is expected to rise to over 71 million next season but just the same, the Oilers do not need to be so generous with salaries to younger players at 6 mil/season for example. Certain players need to "work" for it and not be entitled to it.

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05-13-2014, 08:45 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Would you guys be on board if something happened around phaneuf for 2015 1st? Its very understandable that ur 3rd overall is not getting moved.


The First round pick in the McDavid Draft from a team who hasn't been better then 23rd overall in the league over the last 6 years, for Phaneuf?

Good one


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05-13-2014, 08:47 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Hall2Nuge2Ebs View Post
So you would rather have Gagner and and our draft pick (who will probably head back to junior) over Phaneuf and Kadri? I'd take that deal every day of the week and twice on sundays. A top 2 defenseman and a decent #2 center acquired without giving up any of the core or defensive prospects
You simply DON'T give up the 3rd overall pick in the deal for Phaneuf, he doesn't have the level of value. If he was 3 years younger and was paid $1.5M less over 2 less years, then you consider it, as he is now, you don't, it's a good way to waste a very good pick.

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05-13-2014, 08:49 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post


The First round pick in the McDavid Draft from a team who hasn't been better then 23rd overall in the league over the last 6 years, for Phaneuf?

Good one

Your not that bad to get mcdavid, esp. If u get phaneuf. Let's say phaneuf for oilers 2015 1st which turns out to be 12th overall. Who's the winner here? Easily the oilers.

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05-13-2014, 08:52 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Your not that bad to get mcdavid, esp. If u get phaneuf. Let's say phaneuf for oilers 2015 1st which turns out to be 12th overall. Who's the winner here? Easily the oilers.
No, because Phaneuf's age and Contract, but Dion Phaneuf is Not Good enough to be worth the risk of a pick in the McDavid Draft, Shea Weber is good enough for the Risk if you're looking for a "reference".

If the Oilers lose Hall and/or Scrivens early in the season, they are McDavid bound, and giving up that pick for Dion, would utterly sink the franchise.


Last edited by Jimmi Jenkins: 05-13-2014 at 08:58 AM.
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Old
05-13-2014, 08:55 AM
  #539
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No, because Phaneuf's age and Contract, but Dion Phaneuf is Not Good enough to be worth the risk of a pick in the McDavid Draft, Shea Weber is good enough for the Risk if you're looking for a "reference".
Maybe so but Shea weber isn't available and trading for him would cost a boatload more than a 1st round pick

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05-13-2014, 09:16 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Maybe so but Shea weber isn't available and trading for him would cost a boatload more than a 1st round pick
The Oilers aren't moving the 2015 1st. People working for the Oilers have said they won't.

And you can't blame them. They know that they have no chance at unseating the powerhouses in their division (Ana, LA, SJ). Then looking at the conference Chi and STL are locks. That removes 5 playoff spots for sure. The Oilers aren't better than Dal, Min or Col even with Phaneuf. So that means you will have a lottery pick next year for sure. So why would any team risk losing a chance at a franchise player next year? Teams already have seen two teams (Leafs and NYI) risk it and the move backfire. I can't see many teams willing to do it in the near future. It's also a public relations nightmare with how popular the draft has become (actually in all the leagues) so you can forget the idea of the Oilers moving it


Last edited by doubledown99: 05-13-2014 at 09:27 AM.
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Old
05-13-2014, 09:21 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Your not that bad to get mcdavid, esp. If u get phaneuf. Let's say phaneuf for oilers 2015 1st which turns out to be 12th overall. Who's the winner here? Easily the oilers.
I'm not sure Phaneuf instantly transforms us into a playoff team, and the fact of the matter is that any team in the lottery could win the 1st overall pick, even if it's .5%. That's also overlooking the strength of that draft. A guy like Dylan Strome looks like he will be in the 7-10 range next year. It's a very real possibility that his season next year is on par with the likes of Bennett/Reinhart/Draisaitl.

I understand the Oilers need to worry about the now more than drafting, but it doesn't mean you completely overlook the long term. Especially when cap crunched teams like Boston and Chicago will be looking to move decent players who are cap casualties for prospects and mid to late round picks.

I'd rather pursue Niskanen. Hopefully 7 years, 40 million (5.714 per) gets it done. He might not be quite as good as Phaneuf, but he'll be cheaper, is held in high regard by his teammates and considered a mentor to the young guys, is a RHD (so having him here for 7 years doesn't block Nurse/Marincin/Klefbom), and he costs nothing but cap space. Phaneuf costs more space + assets. Not interested unless we strike out in UFA and trade market. Even then I'm not sure I want that guy here.

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Old
05-13-2014, 09:23 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Maybe so but Shea weber isn't available and trading for him would cost a boatload more than a 1st round pick
I guess, but he would likely be worth it as he would make the Oilers basically a playoff team just by existing.

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Old
05-13-2014, 09:28 AM
  #543
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1. I doubt Phaneuf would perform here and eventually (sooner rather than later) he'd play his way off the team
2. He sucks, he makes way too much money. If you have 1 or 2 competent defensemen ahead of him then you're okay with picking him up... even then it's hard

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05-13-2014, 10:25 AM
  #544
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Anyone who would, should stop chasing shiny new toys. No chance it would be even close to %90. I'm assuming the trade is Florida gets Hall while we get their next 2 firsts. Ekblad could turn into a Bogosian or worse, and even if Edmonton and Florida finished 29th and 30th, the combined percentage to pick 1st overall FOR THE 4TH TIME IN 6 YEARS is no where near %90. Half of that at best.
Us who enjoy chasing parked cars don't feel like enduring yet another 3-5 years of **** hockey by injecting more 18 year olds into the lineup. We have our kids, let's build around them instead of replace them.

I think it's a joke some fans root for their team to lose for a shot at the next big superstar. But I guess they're just numb to losing. **** that. I would rather pick 14th overall just to enjoy the excitement of almost making the playoffs. I'm starving to feel that again.

I said "the math doesn't work but if it did then yes I would trade Hall for a 90% shot at a possible top pairing D and a generational center" (i.e. Ekblad/McDavid). It was meant to be a slightly sarcastic response to the proposal put forth...not an endorsement of the fictional trade. I was sarcastic BECAUSE of the math and the fact that people keep trying to trade Hall.

I'm old enough to remember the glory years. I want a contender not the excitement of almost making the playoffs. If this trade was real it could make that a lot more likely. Even if you missed out in this scenario would be Ekblad/Eichel be so bad?

Meanwhile back on planet earth at least the black hole at 2C is likely to be filled this summer. By an 18 year old.

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05-13-2014, 10:29 AM
  #545
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I doubt the Oilers move the 3rd overall or next years pick unless they get an offer they can't refuse.

1) The performance of the team this year indicates they aren't likely to make the jump next year.

2) The rising salary cap is making for a weak free agent crop that will be insanely competitive. We can't attract any because well.. see reason 1.

3) The state of division and western conference itself. The top 10 teams are so strong it's not going to be easy to join that company. If we were in the East we may be able to give it a go next year.

It's apparent that 2 more years will need to be tacked on to the rebuild. Especially with the way next years draft is shaping up.

We'll get a Center or d-man this year and hopefully the other next year.

If someone comes along and offers a player that is a legitimate number 1 d-man Mac T would take it.. but that's not happening. Can't trade the pick for a tweener 1 on a bad contract, or even a legitimate number 1 on an expiring contract.

Once the team legitimately shows they're making strides.. Perhaps next year. They'll be more aggressive with trading their 1st round pick.

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05-13-2014, 10:30 AM
  #546
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mc79 was on Leafs radio and talked about Dion. In his opinion, Dion's actual production has dropped because of Carlyle's coaching scheme.

Every player regresses under him. The only saving grace was unsustainable shooting % and save %. With normal PDO, they are a bottom 3 team under Carlyle's direction.

Before Carlyle, Dion put up numbers that looked like a true #1. He isn't old and his body is not ruined so there is every reason to believe he can get back to that level.

It is almost impossible to trade for a #1 dman. Lots of times, you have to take a risk. IMO, this is a reasonable risk. I would see if one of Shultz, Nurse, Klefbom or Marincin would do the trick.

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05-13-2014, 11:40 AM
  #547
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I wouldn't trade the #3 for Phaneuf, but I'd definitely be interested in him. He's a legitimate top pairing defenseman who can log big minutes and play against top opposition. He's young enough that he's got lots of years ahead of him, and while he does have a big contract, if he didn't, he wouldn't be rumoured to be available in the first place. Let's not forget that we don't exactly have 1st pairing defensemen banging down our door, so getting one without taking some risk is going to be incredibly difficult to do.

As for all the proposed deals with Kadri/Gagner swaps in them, I really have no interest in that either. Kadri is a marginal upgrade on Gagner, but if the goal is to add a bigger 2C to the mix, Kadri isn't it, eplacing a 5'11", 202lbs forward with a 6'0", 188lbs one isn't going to accomplish that. We'll still be left with the same "we have too many of the same type of player in our top 6" chorus that we've been hearing for the last 3 years.

And let's not pretend Kadri is some screaming hell either. Gagner, after breaking his jaw in preseason, put up a career worst 37 points in 67 games (.55PPG) in the Western Conference. Compared to Kadri's career high of 50 points in 78 games (.64PPG) in the East. That's a difference of 7 whole points over an 82 game season.


Phaneuf for the #3 is an overpay not worth making. Adding Kadri for Gagner doesn't even come close to closing that gap or filling the perceived hole at 2C.

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05-13-2014, 12:41 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
mc79 was on Leafs radio and talked about Dion. In his opinion, Dion's actual production has dropped because of Carlyle's coaching scheme.

Every player regresses under him. The only saving grace was unsustainable shooting % and save %. With normal PDO, they are a bottom 3 team under Carlyle's direction.

Before Carlyle, Dion put up numbers that looked like a true #1. He isn't old and his body is not ruined so there is every reason to believe he can get back to that level.

It is almost impossible to trade for a #1 dman. Lots of times, you have to take a risk. IMO, this is a reasonable risk. I would see if one of Shultz, Nurse, Klefbom or Marincin would do the trick.
It's weird that he didn't mention that Phaneuf/Gunnarsson had by far the highest PDO on that team.

I'd like to see what any Oilers defenseman's numbers would look like with a 11% on-ice shooting percentage and a .930 SV%.

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05-13-2014, 12:50 PM
  #549
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Is Phaneuf a problem in the room? I thought there was plenty of smoke to that fire. As if there aren't enough character issues as it is within the lineup, where guys phone in the effort far too often the last few seasons (vets and young guys alike). Let Phaneuf go elsewhere (maybe back to Calgary, sure... Burke likes him, right?). This is before factoring in that obnoxious salary of his and the term on it. Forget it... look elsewhere to try and fill the holes on D.

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05-13-2014, 12:54 PM
  #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diatomic View Post
Your not that bad to get mcdavid, esp. If u get phaneuf. Let's say phaneuf for oilers 2015 1st which turns out to be 12th overall. Who's the winner here? Easily the oilers.
Yeah, I definitely agree, and if there's a clause put into the deal that protects that pick, whether it be top-5 protected or with the option to make it a 2016 pick or whatever it is, I would definitely be interested in a deal around Phaneuf and EDM 1st 2015. We have to take some risk if we want to get better, and adding a #1D (albeit an imperfect one) right in the age bracket we're looking for definitely qualifies for that.

What sort of deal surrounding Phaneuf and the 1st would you be interested in?

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