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Old
05-05-2014, 11:36 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post

Schultz takes way too much flack around here. I know he can be atrocious defensively but you have to realize the offensive potential there and he hasn't even played 2 full seasons yet.
On top of that he was making huge defensive improvements towards the end of the season (last 3-4 games withstanding he wanted that 2 mill).

He looked much better as soon as he was given a younger (extremely green) stay at home guy to play with and was no longer playing with Ferrence.

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05-05-2014, 11:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob Fail View Post
So we replace Yakupov and Eberle on rw with Stafford and Smith , so glad you don't run this team
And Jeff Frickin Petry isn't our #1 dman... How about we fix the d and watch this team take off instead of holding unto soft small wingers who will never win us anything.

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05-05-2014, 11:39 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Not really when you consider Perron cost us MPS(10th overall draft pick)+2nd who has arguably less value then Smith because of their respective contracts. 2M for Smith, 3.8M for Perron. Obviously it depends on how high you think of Nurse. For me I'm not as high on him as some guys and think he'll have a career but he's not a superstar in the making as the media would have you believe.
Firstly, Perron>Smith. Easily. Seconly, draft status for Paajarvi was irrelevant when he was traded. He had established that he is a third line winger.

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05-05-2014, 11:41 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Firstly, Perron>Smith. Easily. Seconly, draft status for Paajarvi was irrelevant when he was traded. He had established that he is a third line winger.
The stats say otherwise and the difference in salary has to bring them closer together. Smith with 52 points 24 goals and 28 assists only making 2M is worth the same as Perron was when we got him from the Blues. Especially if you consider Perron's injury history.

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05-05-2014, 11:44 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
And Jeff Frickin Petry isn't our #1 dman... How about we fix the d and watch this team take off instead of holding unto soft small wingers who will never win us anything.
Smith is a soft winger Myers is a defensive disaster at Petry level you revamped the roster with all non playoff teams and players that have been regressing every year but one .And Yakupov is gritty and lays out hits . Just stop and think.

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05-05-2014, 11:52 PM
  #56
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I'm not sure why certain people around here seem to think the Oilers can just shortcut their rebuild. The defense that are making their way up are going to need their time to grow. Picking up someone like Josi would help the team but the team is still a couple years away from contention with or without a Josi.

I also can't understand why people think the Oilers can just trade away someone like Eberle. A team that lacks secondary scoring can't just give away players like Eberle or Yakupov for defensive help. In case people haven't noticed this team doesn't exactly have the next Eberle or Yakupov waiting in the minors for a roster spot.

I also don't understand how anyone can proclaim that these "small, soft wingers" will never win anything.

These Oilers core players are far too young to be given up by by anyone.

I think people forget how long Chicago's rebuild actually took and how many players they actually had in place before they took Toews and Kane, it also didn't hurt that they were able to acquire some top notch free agents.

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Old
05-05-2014, 11:53 PM
  #57
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Wasn't Craig Smith on waivers last year?

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05-06-2014, 12:08 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Your on crack if you think Nurse has the potential to be better then Josi. Nurse at his very best is a 30 point shut down top pairing d man. No way he ever cracks 40 points in the NHL. If you said Ekblad then maybe. People need to stop drinking the Nurse Kool-Aid. He's most likely going to be a good defencemen, but lets not expect him to be the next Pietrangelo or anything like that. Also who cares if Smith can't take face-offs? Thats why he's a winger, and he's not soft just not overly physical. Same as a guy like Penner.
Quick!! Whats the winning lottery numbers?!?!!?

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05-06-2014, 12:12 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by haterbehatin View Post
I'm not sure why certain people around here seem to think the Oilers can just shortcut their rebuild. The defense that are making their way up are going to need their time to grow. Picking up someone like Josi would help the team but the team is still a couple years away from contention with or without a Josi.

I also can't understand why people think the Oilers can just trade away someone like Eberle. A team that lacks secondary scoring can't just give away players like Eberle or Yakupov for defensive help. In case people haven't noticed this team doesn't exactly have the next Eberle or Yakupov waiting in the minors for a roster spot.

I also don't understand how anyone can proclaim that these "small, soft wingers" will never win anything.

These Oilers core players are far too young to be given up by by anyone.

I think people forget how long Chicago's rebuild actually took and how many players they actually had in place before they took Toews and Kane, it also didn't hurt that they were able to acquire some top notch free agents.
That's the problem. All the bottom teams who have risen either were lucky to get a real good player at a high draft position or they were able to acquire premium free agents. Other than Hall, the Oilers have not gotten great 1st rounders or great free agents.

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05-06-2014, 12:22 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
That's the problem. All the bottom teams who have risen either were lucky to get a real good player at a high draft position or they were able to acquire premium free agents. Other than Hall, the Oilers have not gotten great 1st rounders or great free agents.
I don't think the high picks have been a problem. I mean obviously it would've been nice to have say Stamkos or Doughty to go with Hall. These Oilers kids are still young though and should have some projection left.

The bigger problem is that the Oilers didn't already have their and Seabrook already in the organization when Toews was selected and also having had players like Patrick Sharp fallen into their laps.

People need to realise the Oilers organization was pretty much entirely barren when Hall was drafted sure they had a couple decent assets and Eberle but it was truly scorched earth when Hall was selected.

The other thing that the Oilers seem to have in terms of trades is they have players they shouldn't trade then for movable assets with value they have essentially nothing and then they have a ton of movable pieces with no value. Guys like Musil, Jones before he was a FA etc.

I actually think the best course of action right now is to do what they did last offseason if there's a Perron type of deal great otherwise try to bring in a couple free agents who can contribute if they're available. Guys like Gordon or Ference even though Ference was played too high in the lineup.

The big thing they need is some time for the kids to show themselves Klefbom, Marincin, Yakupov even guys like Pitlick. Most importantly if they get non abysmal goaltending like they did with Dubbie last year I think the team should improve even if they don't make the playoffs (I don't think they will although they could squeak in if everything falls in place).

The reason I don't think they should try to make big moves is because the kids need time either way and they don't really have any movable assets it doesn't make sense to move guys like Eberle or Yakupov just to make a change.

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05-06-2014, 12:31 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haterbehatin View Post
I'm not sure why certain people around here seem to think the Oilers can just shortcut their rebuild. The defense that are making their way up are going to need their time to grow. Picking up someone like Josi would help the team but the team is still a couple years away from contention with or without a Josi.

I also can't understand why people think the Oilers can just trade away someone like Eberle. A team that lacks secondary scoring can't just give away players like Eberle or Yakupov for defensive help. In case people haven't noticed this team doesn't exactly have the next Eberle or Yakupov waiting in the minors for a roster spot.

I also don't understand how anyone can proclaim that these "small, soft wingers" will never win anything.

These Oilers core players are far too young to be given up by by anyone.

I think people forget how long Chicago's rebuild actually took and how many players they actually had in place before they took Toews and Kane, it also didn't hurt that they were able to acquire some top notch free agents.
Look at the size of wings on championship teams....

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05-06-2014, 12:51 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Look at the size of wings on championship teams....
Here's the 6'2''+ wingers who scored at least 10 points in their teams' Cup runs:


Chicago: Bickell

LA: Carter, Penner

Boston: Horton, Lucic

Chicago: Byfuglien

Pittsburgh: None

Detroit: Franzen, Samuelsson

Anaheim: Perry, Moen

Carolina: None

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Old
05-06-2014, 01:19 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Here's the 6'2''+ wingers who scored at least 10 points in their teams' Cup runs:


Chicago: Bickell

LA: Carter, Penner

Boston: Horton, Lucic

Chicago: Byfuglien

Pittsburgh: None

Detroit: Franzen, Samuelsson

Anaheim: Perry, Moen

Carolina: None
How about the guys who were over 200 lbs? By size I didn't mean height, i meant build. a guy whos 5'10 and 200lbs is a fairly stocky guy. Although I think the majority of wingers i looked up were around 6'1" and 205 lbs IIRC.

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05-06-2014, 01:20 AM
  #64
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[QUOTE=Petes2424;84673611
The most important thing is to add a couple quality "Professional" vets with a lot of experience and to maximize both the draft and the trading of Gagner while upgrading with small trades like grabbing Andersson from Detroit and a D that has tools but might just need a change. A guy like Jakub Kindl who plays in great stretches and then struggles for whatever reason. A guy that truly needs that change of scenery and if he doesn't work out, no harm done.

They have a lot of work to do. One step at a time though and we really can't afford mistakes like throwing tons of money at Grabovski.[/QUOTE]

Very true the thing is realistically everyone is expecting to much to happen with the roster while we should expect 1-2 trades max and 3-4 free agent signings which can bump some players down the line up to spots they can handle better.

Grabovski can make sense as a 2 year addition depending on how you view the toronto drama yes he did quit on the team but it seemed to me like a mishandled situation where he didn't understand why he wasn't being played to his strengths.

Either way if we trade gagner we need to bring in a 2c Stastny is not happening in a million years as he apparently if leaving colorado wants to go to a contender as he has done some bottom dwelling. Grabovski provides a cheap stop gap allowing whoever we pick to stay in juniors then ease in on the wing the year after then finally transition to centre as he comes off the books.

Anyone have any interest in Benoit Pouliot as a 3rd line option? as advanced stats show favourably for him and he would come very cheaply.

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05-06-2014, 02:13 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Macblender View Post

Anyone have any interest in Benoit Pouliot as a 3rd line option? as advanced stats show favourably for him and he would come very cheaply.
I would prefer fourth line with third line potential in a pinch though I think/hope we are looking for higher producing bottom sixers for next year to support our top line.

Although if his advanced stats are good then we must also look to add bottom sixers that make life easier on our young d corps.

So yes, if the price is right

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05-06-2014, 02:16 AM
  #66
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It's not build. It's not size. It's the methodology of playing hockey.

It bothers me (dunno why) when people see a "big" guy and automatically think - this is perfect for our lineup! Add him, because being big means Joe Thornton and Anze Kopitar won't take his lunch money! And Jesse Joensuu/Jean-Francois Jacques can play shotgun on the first line! Perfect!

Non-stocky, very shrimpy Brendan Gallagher (5'7", 170 lbs) is second on the Montreal Canadiens for points (PPG), plays defensively sound, and plays physical. And he's been playing well against the gold standard of bruising, Boston.

As for
Quote:
a guy whos 5'10 and 200lbs is a fairly stocky guy
... Consider (one of) the most villified Oiler in recent memory, Sam Gagner. That squirt is 5'11" and 202 lbs. Fairly stocky, right? Taylor Hall, for comparison's sake, is around 200/201 lbs (91 kg) and 6'1".

I'm aware, yes, Gagner's got some other problems in his hockey sense - but stocky doesn't cut it in the boards out here. (Take that for what you mean, that pun's got layers.)

Yeah. Sometimes, it's about size. You can't have a team of Brendan Gallagher clones (you could try!) and expect to win the division. We do require some semblance of size.

But don't be blind to the fact that a Brendan Gallagher team would eat a team of Sam Gagner clones for breakfast. The team needs grit far more than it needs size.

And this team needs a lot, a lot, of things.

---------------
Also, Eberle + Nurse for Josi + Smith? What?

I mean, this is coming from raab, who once offered our 7th overall for Franson, but this boggles the mind. I wonder if you asked TOR fans if they'd accept that package for JVR (who scored 4 points less than Eberle) + Rielly (their best D prospect).

Eberle was 30th! In the NHL! In scoring! On the ****tastic Edmonton Oilers! Granted, I'm not one of the people saying Josi is equal to Eberle, but I'll digress and allow that to happen. Darnell Nurse?! For Craig ****ing Smith!? If you hate Gagner, get ready to be amazed.
--------------
I should sleep.

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Old
05-06-2014, 02:26 AM
  #67
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As for off-season deals (again),

All for the acquiring Andersson on the cheap to be our new #3C, paying off Kulemin and Grabovski for that package deal, and if we can make a deal using prospects and draft picks for a serviceable defenceman (that 3rd OV for Shattenkirk and Bergy looks awesome right about now), you do that. Sign Matt Niskanen/Andrei Markov.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Kulemin-Grabovski-Yakupov
Perron-Andersson-Berglund
Hendricks-Gordon-Moss

Markov-Petry (our very own Markov/Emelin)
Marincin-Schultz
Shattenkirk-Ference
Klefbom

That's grit. Surprisingly, there's also size. RNH-Grabo-Andersson-Berglund-Gordon-Lander (in the minors) resembles centre depth. On defence, for the first time since Lubo left, you've got a stud on D, and for the first time since the great purge of Quinn, you've got 6/7 NHL calibre defencemen. Gives Nurse a year in SSM. If you don't trade for Shattenkirk, insert Ekblad or, if you're feeling adventurous, add a prospect to Detroit's deal and relieve them of Jakub Kindl (should they so choose). Same scenario applies for Anaheim and Luca Sbisa.

Scrivens and Fasth round out a solid goaltending tandem. I'd be happy (i think) with that.

EDIT: And I didn't even trade Gagner. In fact, if you assume you cannot do the beyond-amazing StL deal, **** society and keep him. Play him on the wing with Andersson and draft Ekblad. A third line of Perron-Andersson-Gagner?

nope. nobody likes it. Time to sleep.

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05-06-2014, 02:34 AM
  #68
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Very true the thing is realistically everyone is expecting to much to happen with the roster while we should expect 1-2 trades max and 3-4 free agent signings which can bump some players down the line up to spots they can handle better.

Grabovski can make sense as a 2 year addition depending on how you view the toronto drama yes he did quit on the team but it seemed to me like a mishandled situation where he didn't understand why he wasn't being played to his strengths.

Either way if we trade gagner we need to bring in a 2c Stastny is not happening in a million years as he apparently if leaving colorado wants to go to a contender as he has done some bottom dwelling. Grabovski provides a cheap stop gap allowing whoever we pick to stay in juniors then ease in on the wing the year after then finally transition to centre as he comes off the books.

Anyone have any interest in Benoit Pouliot as a 3rd line option? as advanced stats show favourably for him and he would come very cheaply.
Pouliot is a good supporting player. I'd look at him for sure. Another guy for different reasons is Steven Bernier.

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05-06-2014, 02:41 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by nofool6110 View Post
As for off-season deals (again),

All for the acquiring Andersson on the cheap to be our new #3C, paying off Kulemin and Grabovski for that package deal, and if we can make a deal using prospects and draft picks for a serviceable defenceman (that 3rd OV for Shattenkirk and Bergy looks awesome right about now), you do that. Sign Matt Niskanen/Andrei Markov.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Kulemin-Grabovski-Yakupov
Perron-Andersson-Berglund
Hendricks-Gordon-Moss

Markov-Petry (our very own Markov/Emelin)
Marincin-Schultz
Shattenkirk-Ference
Klefbom

That's grit. Surprisingly, there's also size. RNH-Grabo-Andersson-Berglund-Gordon-Lander (in the minors) resembles centre depth. On defence, for the first time since Lubo left, you've got a stud on D, and for the first time since the great purge of Quinn, you've got 6/7 NHL calibre defencemen. Gives Nurse a year in SSM. If you don't trade for Shattenkirk, insert Ekblad or, if you're feeling adventurous, add a prospect to Detroit's deal and relieve them of Jakub Kindl (should they so choose). Same scenario applies for Anaheim and Luca Sbisa.

Scrivens and Fasth round out a solid goaltending tandem. I'd be happy (i think) with that.

EDIT: And I didn't even trade Gagner. In fact, if you assume you cannot do the beyond-amazing StL deal, **** society and keep him. Play him on the wing with Andersson and draft Ekblad. A third line of Perron-Andersson-Gagner?

nope. nobody likes it. Time to sleep.
I think you'll see us grab a guy like Sbisa or Kindl. Low risk for sure. On the Gagner front, I just keep thinking New Jersey. They need a guy and he brings points and he's locked up for some time. Typical guy Lou grabs. Now, he might tell is to go fly a kite in a more r rated way, but I'm trying like hell to get Gelinas out of him.

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05-06-2014, 02:58 AM
  #70
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I was over on Detroits board and they were discussing moving Kindl and Andersson and it occurred to me, Ference is a great fit for that trade. Detroit was in on signing him, he fits their system and we could use both guys and not be stuck with Ference. Gives us the mobility to go out and get a bigger and better fit for the younger guys.

Just a thought.

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05-06-2014, 08:26 AM
  #71
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I was over on Detroits board and they were discussing moving Kindl and Andersson and it occurred to me, Ference is a great fit for that trade. Detroit was in on signing him, he fits their system and we could use both guys and not be stuck with Ference. Gives us the mobility to go out and get a bigger and better fit for the younger guys.

Just a thought.
The Oilers aren't moving Ference, nor should they. Getting more inexperienced on the blueline Won't make them better.

The reality with the Detroit is, though they are a good organization, they had the Nik Lidstrom Miracle for 20 years, that's something that's often ignored, but clearly had a ridiculous impact.

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05-06-2014, 08:59 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by haterbehatin View Post
I'm not sure why certain people around here seem to think the Oilers can just shortcut their rebuild. The defense that are making their way up are going to need their time to grow. Picking up someone like Josi would help the team but the team is still a couple years away from contention with or without a Josi.

I also can't understand why people think the Oilers can just trade away someone like Eberle. A team that lacks secondary scoring can't just give away players like Eberle or Yakupov for defensive help. In case people haven't noticed this team doesn't exactly have the next Eberle or Yakupov waiting in the minors for a roster spot.

I also don't understand how anyone can proclaim that these "small, soft wingers" will never win anything.

These Oilers core players are far too young to be given up by by anyone.

I think people forget how long Chicago's rebuild actually took and how many players they actually had in place before they took Toews and Kane, it also didn't hurt that they were able to acquire some top notch free agents.
+1
This post pretty much sums up the predicament that the Oilers are in. I hope MacT has the patience to just let the kids develop.
Why go through all these years of sad sad hockey and draft the high skill players and to only trade them away before we know how good they will become.

We need to let these kids develop and grow into their body and learn to play the game at the NHL level.
MacT does need to bring in the veterans as supporting cast. They don't need to be stars of the team. Don't go trading the 19-22 year olds before we know what they will become for aging assets.

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05-06-2014, 09:54 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
How about the guys who were over 200 lbs? By size I didn't mean height, i meant build. a guy whos 5'10 and 200lbs is a fairly stocky guy. Although I think the majority of wingers i looked up were around 6'1" and 205 lbs IIRC.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=93938

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05-06-2014, 10:03 AM
  #74
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Not right now, but Shattenkirk has also played nearly double the amount of games Schultz has. If we could add Shattenkirk our D would be set for the future with two great puck movers and three big two-way defenseman.

I'm still all over the idea of sending 3rd OV to STL for a package involving Shattenkirk and Berglund.
Nope but you do realize after a couple seasons Shattenkirk got traded because he wasnt what he is today. Schultz will improve.

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05-06-2014, 10:11 AM
  #75
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Read that article gregor posted and while Hartnell's contract is long it's not exactly horrid in terms of dollars. 4.5mil cap hit with today's numbers isn't as bad as it once was.

I just don't see how we can pass on him. Especially considering what a guy like Clarkson received.

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