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Old
05-06-2014, 10:16 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Is Gagner a winger?

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Old
05-06-2014, 10:25 AM
  #77
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Is Gagner a winger?
He's 5'11 202lbs.

Fits your profile of "big".

I mean he's no Sean Couturier with zero points and -3 in the playoffs this year, but he isnt small.

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05-06-2014, 10:28 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Read that article gregor posted and while Hartnell's contract is long it's not exactly horrid in terms of dollars. 4.5mil cap hit with today's numbers isn't as bad as it once was.

I just don't see how we can pass on him. Especially considering what a guy like Clarkson received.
Now theres a deal that makes sense from both sides. Wonder what we give up, he shouldn't cost much but we don't have much to offer.

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Old
05-06-2014, 10:39 AM
  #79
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Now theres a deal that makes sense from both sides. Wonder what we give up, he shouldn't cost much but we don't have much to offer.
Purely specualation on Gregors part, but he did mention the Coburn deal.

Regardless, MacT needs to be talking to Holmgren again. Can't be letting physical top 6 guys go without a phone call.

A source tells me that MacTavish was close to landing Brayden Coburn for multiple draft picks last year, and none were a first rounder. That would explain why Holmgren changed his mind at the final moments, but could MacTavish land Hartnell for a combination of picks and/or prospects? Hmmm

If a deal happens it likely means moving Martin Marincin or maybe even Jeff Petry. I know Petry is a whipping boy for many -- I'm not a huge fan of his consistency -- but it would be a major gamble for the Oilers to trade him when they have so few right shot D-men on the roster. They have no one ready to replace him and I would only deal him if I'm getting a proven defender in return. The Oilers have many left shot D, so they can afford to give up Marincin, but that is a risk for a 32-year old. Unless the Oilers can make it a package of other pieces, I'm not sure they do it.

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Old
05-06-2014, 10:40 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He's 5'11 202lbs.

Fits your profile of "big".

I mean he's no Sean Couturier with zero points and -3 in the playoffs this year, but he isnt small.
And everyone agrees that Gagner would look better as a winger... Also like I said look at all the teams that have won cups. I believe the average size of the wingers was 6'1" 205 lbs or bigger. Our top 9 wingers were: Hall-6'1" 195, Eberle-5'11" 184lbs, Perron-5'11" 198lbs, Yakupov-5-11" 184lbs, Hendricks-6'0" 211lbs, Joensuu-6'4" 209lbs.

Now don't get me wrong these guys need to have skill as well. We can't just go get a player because they're "big". The Oilers have done that before and it doesnt work out. But the issue needs to be addressed. Lets look at Detroits top 9 from 2008 as a comparable: Zetterberg-5'11" 195lbs, Cleary-6'0" 203lbs, Holstrom-6'0" 198 lbs, Samuelsson-6'2" 218lbs, Franzen-6'3" 222lbs, Kopecky-6'3" 203lbs. And they were considered one of the softer Stanley cup winners...


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Old
05-06-2014, 10:55 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
And everyone agrees that Gagner would look better as a winger... Also like I said look at all the teams that have won cups. I believe the average size of the wingers was 6'1" 205 lbs or bigger. Our top 6 wingers were: Hall-6'1" 195, Eberle-5'11" 184lbs, Perron-5'11" 198lbs, Yakupov-5-11" 184lbs, Hendricks-6'0" 211lbs, Joensuu-6'4" 209lbs.

Now don't get me wrong these guys need to have skill as well. We can't just go get a player because they're "big". The Oilers have done that before and it doesnt work out. But the issue needs to be addressed. Lets look at Detroits top 9 from 2008 as a comparable: Zetterberg-5'11" 195lbs, Cleary-6'0" 203lbs, Holstrom-6'0" 198 lbs, Samuelsson-6'2" 218lbs, Franzen-6'3" 222lbs, Kopecky-6'3" 203lbs. And they were considered one of the softer Stanley cup winners...
So you suggest trading the young guys out for some meddling top 6 wingers with weight?
How about letting these young wingers age and gain some weight before trading them out? The kids will gain 10-20 pounds as they age and grow past 21 years old.

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05-06-2014, 11:00 AM
  #82
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So you suggest trading the young guys out for some meddling top 6 wingers with weight?
How about letting these young wingers age and gain some weight before trading them out? The kids will gain 10-20 pounds as they age and grow past 21 years old.
For some of those guys they can gain 30lbs and it won't matter. We need players that play with grit and size. Having size means nothing if you are the type of player that doesn't use it.

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05-06-2014, 11:40 AM
  #83
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Though you can't teach someone to go out and be nasty and throw hits all the time as that is mostly mental the kids would become much more effective if they learnt how to shield the puck better which is teachable. You saw it with Hall at times last year down low and you see players like patty kane who are great at it though he is extremely talented as well so maybe some better examples are omark and nathan gerbe who are way smaller than our guys but put together how to use there frame better and allowed them success against the wall.

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05-06-2014, 12:27 PM
  #84
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I think you'll see us grab a guy like Sbisa or Kindl. Low risk for sure. On the Gagner front, I just keep thinking New Jersey. They need a guy and he brings points and he's locked up for some time. Typical guy Lou grabs. Now, he might tell is to go fly a kite in a more r rated way, but I'm trying like hell to get Gelinas out of him.
I agree, we won't be able to attract high profile UFAs, so its going to be salary dumps, under-appreciated players and guys trying to re-find their game. Sbisa possibly fits the underappreciated category. I also think NJ and Nashville are the 2 most likely spots for Gagner. Not sure what we get for him. I don't think he's as bad as this season, but looking at all the blogs form Staples et al, geeez I hope no one league-wide pays any attention to those guys becuase no one would touch Gagner.

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Old
05-06-2014, 12:54 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by commie View Post
So you suggest trading the young guys out for some meddling top 6 wingers with weight?
How about letting these young wingers age and gain some weight before trading them out? The kids will gain 10-20 pounds as they age and grow past 21 years old.
No I traded them out for above average defencemen. I'm saying we'd be alright replacing them with some guys who might not put up as many points but have enough size and strength to win boards battles and battles in front of the net. So use those 2 to make some MAJOR upgrades to the defence.

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05-06-2014, 01:08 PM
  #86
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Giving away one of the better defensemen Edmonton has for an aging winger would be insane.

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Old
05-06-2014, 01:40 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Lindo View Post
Giving away one of the better defensemen Edmonton has for an aging winger would be insane.
which is why it would almost be surprising if we DON'T do it

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05-06-2014, 01:43 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Lindo View Post
Giving away one of the better defensemen Edmonton has for an aging winger would be insane.
But he's physical!!!

In all seriousness, Hartnell would be an excellent addition provided he doesn't cost Marincin/Klefbom/2015 1st, which would be a ridiculous price for him. I'd be down to move some combination of lower picks/prospects for him though.

If they do acquire Hartnell, it could also make room for Perron/Yakupov to be traded. Not that that would be necessary or prudent by any means, but a second line of Hartnell-?-Perron or Hartnell-?-Yakupov could definitely hold its own for the next couple years.

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05-06-2014, 02:28 PM
  #89
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which is why it would almost be surprising if we DON'T do it
Hahahah, definitely. They'll give up Marincin, and then he'll become a top-pairing guy in Philly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerfan17 View Post
But he's physical!!!

In all seriousness, Hartnell would be an excellent addition provided he doesn't cost Marincin/Klefbom/2015 1st, which would be a ridiculous price for him. I'd be down to move some combination of lower picks/prospects for him though.

If they do acquire Hartnell, it could also make room for Perron/Yakupov to be traded. Not that that would be necessary or prudent by any means, but a second line of Hartnell-?-Perron or Hartnell-?-Yakupov could definitely hold its own for the next couple years.
Agreed. I'd be all for Hartnell, because he could play 2LW and Perron could go back to RW where he seems to be a little better. Maybe some combo of Musil and picks, I think it's more of a cap-dump instead of a legit trade.

Just don't give up any of Marincin/Klefbom/Petry. They just can't afford to.

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05-06-2014, 02:37 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Lindo View Post
Giving away one of the better defensemen Edmonton has for an aging winger would be insane.


I traded Joni Pitkanen for Erik Cole with one year left on his contract.

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Old
05-06-2014, 02:47 PM
  #91
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I traded Joni Pitkanen for Erik Cole with one year left on his contract.
That trade I could argue that Erik Cole was EXACTLY what we needed. Unfortunately, it didn't pan out. Below are the stats that each player had the same year:

Pitkanen 63 GM 8 G 18 A 26 PTS

vs

Cole 73 GM 22 G 29 A 51 PTS

Cole had a great season in Carolina and would have been our PWF that we've been dreaming for. But because of injuries and him playing it too cautiously, we lost on that trade. I mean, same could happen to Hartnell.

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05-06-2014, 02:59 PM
  #92
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Unbelievable how we went from having 6 hard-nosed d-men who couldn't make a pass to save their life in 2007 to having 6 puck movers who couldn't play a lick of defense by 2009.

Since Sather left, we haven't had a balanced solid D save for March 2006-June 2006 when we added Spacek to the core of Pronger, Smith, and Staios.

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05-06-2014, 03:09 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
That trade I could argue that Erik Cole was EXACTLY what we needed. Unfortunately, it didn't pan out. Below are the stats that each player had the same year:

Pitkanen 63 GM 8 G 18 A 26 PTS

vs

Cole 73 GM 22 G 29 A 51 PTS

Cole had a great season in Carolina and would have been our PWF that we've been dreaming for. But because of injuries and him playing it too cautiously, we lost on that trade. I mean, same could happen to Hartnell.
Cole had been declining for 2 seasons when we picked him up, he didn't have a great season prior to us picking him up. Pitkanen had 3 relatively healthy, good seasons as a top pairing guy in Carolina while Cole was gone by the trade deadline for what amounted to nothing down the line.

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05-06-2014, 03:12 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
That trade I could argue that Erik Cole was EXACTLY what we needed. Unfortunately, it didn't pan out. Below are the stats that each player had the same year:

Pitkanen 63 GM 8 G 18 A 26 PTS

vs

Cole 73 GM 22 G 29 A 51 PTS

Cole had a great season in Carolina and would have been our PWF that we've been dreaming for. But because of injuries and him playing it too cautiously, we lost on that trade. I mean, same could happen to Hartnell.
Cole being switched from RW to LW didn't help us either. He was known to use his body to cut from the right side to the left side, but we ignored the highlights of how he produced and played him on the left side.

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05-06-2014, 03:14 PM
  #95
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I call this one...."fat camp"

- Trade 1st 2015, 1st in 2016, Marco Roy for Stewart and Erhoff.
- Trade HoraK, and a 2nd for Byfuglien.
- Draft Draisaitl, Pollock
- trade Yakupov, Klefbom, Lander for Alzner and Laich
- Trade Fasth, Gagner for Bailey and a 3rd.
- Sign Stastny and Penner.


CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Taylor Hall ($6.000m) / Paul Stastny ($4.000m) / Chris Stewart ($4.150m)
Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Ryan Nugent-Hopkins ($6.000m) / Jordan Eberle ($6.000m)
Dustin Penner ($2.000m) / Josh Bailey ($1.650mó50.00%) / David Perron ($3.813m)
Matt Hendricks ($1.850m) / Boyd Gordon ($3.000m) / Jesse Joensuu ($0.950m)
Mark Arcobello ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Dustin Byfuglien ($5.200m)
Karl Alzner ($2.800m) / Justin Schultz ($4.000m)
Andrew Ference ($3.250m) / Jeff Petry ($3.500m)
Taylor Fedun ($0.850m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ben Scrivens ($2.300m)
Laurent Brossoit ($0.659m)
BUYOUTS
Eric Belanger ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,071,667; BONUSES: $265,833
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $28,333


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05-06-2014, 03:16 PM
  #96
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Cole also blasted the city during the 2006 Cup finals. I seem to remember a comment about not being able to get a doctor after Moreau ran him in Game 4.

MacT is high on character players...Lowe was not...

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05-06-2014, 03:17 PM
  #97
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I call this one...."fat camp"

- Trade 1st 2015, 1st in 2016, Marco Roy for Stewart and Erhoff.
- Trade HoraK, and a 2nd for Byfuglien.
- Draft Draisaitl, Pollock
- trade Yakupov, Klefbom, Lander for Alzner and Laich
- Trade Fasth, Gagner for Bailey and a 3rd.
- Sign Stastny and Penner.


CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Taylor Hall ($6.000m) / Paul Stastny ($4.000m) / Chris Stewart ($4.150m)
Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Ryan Nugent-Hopkins ($6.000m) / Jordan Eberle ($6.000m)
Dustin Penner ($2.000m) / Josh Bailey ($1.650mó50.00%) / David Perron ($3.813m)
Matt Hendricks ($1.850m) / Boyd Gordon ($3.000m) / Jesse Joensuu ($0.950m)
Mark Arcobello ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Dustin Byfuglien ($5.200m)
Karl Alzner ($2.800m) / Justin Schultz ($4.000m)
Andrew Ference ($3.250m) / Jeff Petry ($3.500m)
Taylor Fedun ($0.850m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ben Scrivens ($2.300m)
Laurent Brossoit ($0.659m)
BUYOUTS
Eric Belanger ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,071,667; BONUSES: $265,833
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $28,333

As bad as everything else is, that 2nd trade literally made me laugh out loud. Top pairing d-men who are under contract for another couple of seasons don't go for career AHLers and 2nd rounders brah....based on your logic the price we paid for Perron would be higher than Buff....lol

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05-06-2014, 03:31 PM
  #98
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Cole had been declining for 2 seasons when we picked him up, he didn't have a great season prior to us picking him up. Pitkanen had 3 relatively healthy, good seasons as a top pairing guy in Carolina while Cole was gone by the trade deadline for what amounted to nothing down the line.
We were quite lucky at the time to turn him into POS. Unfortunately POS just didn't have the drive.

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05-06-2014, 04:27 PM
  #99
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I traded Joni Pitkanen for Erik Cole with one year left on his contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
That trade I could argue that Erik Cole was EXACTLY what we needed. Unfortunately, it didn't pan out. Below are the stats that each player had the same year:

Pitkanen 63 GM 8 G 18 A 26 PTS

vs

Cole 73 GM 22 G 29 A 51 PTS

Cole had a great season in Carolina and would have been our PWF that we've been dreaming for. But because of injuries and him playing it too cautiously, we lost on that trade. I mean, same could happen to Hartnell.
Oilers misused Cole and for whatever reason people forgot that Pitkanen was cracking under the pressure of playing in Edmonton like he did in Philly

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Old
05-06-2014, 04:35 PM
  #100
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For some of those guys they can gain 30lbs and it won't matter. We need players that play with grit and size. Having size means nothing if you are the type of player that doesn't use it.
Then trading Yakupov is the opposite of what you are trying to do. When he is on his game, Yakupov plays with grit and hits. Also, by the time he is 22-23, he'll be over 200 pounds as his playing weight. Nice stocky low center of gravity guy.

IMO, you can't trade Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Schultz, and Nurse until their full potential is shown.

Gagner,Eberle, one of Kelfboom/Marincin, Petry is fair games for trading.

Perron is on a case by case basis, we know what he is already, a 50-60 pts gritty top 9 player which is what is needed. Ideally you keep him on the team, but if an outrageous offer is made, then seriously consider it. One of those buy high sell higher type of deal.

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