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Blues Trade Proposals Part XI

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Old
05-12-2014, 09:50 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
He's a center only and we aren't trading Steen or Oshie for him. He's going to have a rental value, though it will be rental value of a really good player. Ideally it would've been Berglund/Sobotka+Carrier+Edm 2nd, but since we don't have Carrier, we might have to use Jaskin/Rattie or convince them of Vannelli.
That's more along the lines of what I was thinking, I was just seeing how/if there was a way we could shuffle around to get him up there if we are able to sign Stastny as well. Obviously, beggars can't be choosers, I'd be happy with either because we need an upgrade so badly. He has a NTC and definitely wouldn't okay a trade here if he wouldn't get top 6 minutes.

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05-12-2014, 10:25 AM
  #77
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At this point it seems as is Spezza will be the 'easiest' center to acquire. Really seems that Ottawa is pushin to trade him.

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05-12-2014, 10:48 AM
  #78
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I have 0 enthusiasm for spezza... I can see it now. Insane first quarter performance followed by a season ending injury

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05-12-2014, 04:39 PM
  #79
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I have 0 enthusiasm for spezza... I can see it now. Insane first quarter performance followed by a season ending injury
I wouldn't say 0, but he is far down on my list of preferences. If he was a free agent, I'd be all over it. However, I am not down with giving away limited assets for 1 year from this guy. He has one year left. While his salary for that year is low, his cap hit is $7M. He is great offensively but he is awful defensively. Plus, if people thought Perron over-handled the puck, its nothing on this guy. Lots of turnovers. He had the 3rd most of all centers this year and was far from the 3rd most in ice time.

Unless we get him very cheaply in trade, I wouldn't bite. I don't want to give up young guys who could potentially contribute for years for one year from a guy who could be a liability at times.

He is fair game for trade. His NTC only allows him to submit a list of 10 teams he can't be traded to each season. He can do nothing to block a trade to the other 20. I doubt the Blues would be on the list unless he is specifically targeting teams that need a center, so as to avoid a trade.

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05-12-2014, 05:01 PM
  #80
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Not sure if it's cute or adorable that some Sens fans think they'll get Schwartz, Oshie, or Shattenkirk.

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05-12-2014, 05:17 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Majorityof1 View Post
I wouldn't say 0, but he is far down on my list of preferences. If he was a free agent, I'd be all over it. However, I am not down with giving away limited assets for 1 year from this guy. He has one year left. While his salary for that year is low, his cap hit is $7M. He is great offensively but he is awful defensively. Plus, if people thought Perron over-handled the puck, its nothing on this guy. Lots of turnovers. He had the 3rd most of all centers this year and was far from the 3rd most in ice time.

Unless we get him very cheaply in trade, I wouldn't bite. I don't want to give up young guys who could potentially contribute for years for one year from a guy who could be a liability at times.

He is fair game for trade. His NTC only allows him to submit a list of 10 teams he can't be traded to each season. He can do nothing to block a trade to the other 20. I doubt the Blues would be on the list unless he is specifically targeting teams that need a center, so as to avoid a trade.
Except he will produce a lot more than Perron did.

Look I got tired of Perron too but if we want more creativity in this stagnant offense we are going to have to allow a little leeway here for some of these guys. There are very few players out there who are great defensively, are under the age of 27, don't have injury problems, are great offensively but don't turn the puck over, are under contract for many years and don't have too high of a cap hit. And the players who do fit that bill aren't available.

Sure Spezza isn't my first option, but he is still a good player that I would take for the right price. Meaning Berglund and Rattie/Jaskin are probably the most valuable pieces I'd be willing to give up, but not much more.

On the trade market, there's Spezza, Kesler, Thornton, Pavelski, Kadri...? They all have my interest for the right price, and each one of them has some negatives about them. Pavelski is probably the "safest" one I suppose.

We just need a center. If we can get one of those guys without giving up a fortune, I'd go for it. I don't think we can afford to be too picky because whoever we get will easily be one of the better offensive players on this roster.

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05-12-2014, 05:17 PM
  #82
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Well if I understand it correctly, sens would retain 3 million of spezza, so if he only costs us 4 Million that would really free up money to replace shattenkirk with Niskanen(from what others have said). That dosnt seem that bad.....

I'm not high on statsny at 7x7 that people have suggested.....really locks us into a bad deal if he declines or gets lazy. Now if statsny is resigned then Spezza may be the best optioned if his salary is retained

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05-12-2014, 05:19 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Dbrownss View Post
Well if I understand it correctly, sens would retain 3 million of spezza, so if he only costs us 4 Million that would really free up money to replace shattenkirk with Niskanen(from what others have said). That dosnt seem that bad.....

I'm not high on statsny at 7x7 that people have suggested.....really locks us into a bad deal if he declines or gets lazy. Now if statsny is resigned then Spezza may be the best optioned if his salary is retained
They aren't retaining any salary. His cap hit is $7 mil but that's because it was front loaded. We'd only have to pay him 4 mil in salary because that's what he's due to make next season, which isn't bad.

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05-12-2014, 05:35 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
They aren't retaining any salary. His cap hit is $7 mil but that's because it was front loaded. We'd only have to pay him 4 mil in salary because that's what he's due to make next season, which isn't bad.
Ok, I'm new with all of that...so does the cap hit affect us or is it all in the same?

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05-12-2014, 05:38 PM
  #85
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Ok, I'm new with all of that...so does the cap hit affect us or is it all in the same?
Stillman would write a check to Spezza for 4 million, but we'd still have a 7 million cap hit.

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05-12-2014, 05:40 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Stillman would write a check to Spezza for 4 million, but we'd still have a 7 million cap hit.
Thanks, so it's 7mil regardless lol...

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05-12-2014, 05:51 PM
  #87
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Except he will produce a lot more than Perron did.

Look I got tired of Perron too but if we want more creativity in this stagnant offense we are going to have to allow a little leeway here for some of these guys. There are very few players out there who are great defensively, are under the age of 27, don't have injury problems, are great offensively but don't turn the puck over, are under contract for many years and don't have too high of a cap hit. And the players who do fit that bill aren't available.

Sure Spezza isn't my first option, but he is still a good player that I would take for the right price. Meaning Berglund and Rattie/Jaskin are probably the most valuable pieces I'd be willing to give up, but not much more.

On the trade market, there's Spezza, Kesler, Thornton, Pavelski, Kadri...? They all have my interest for the right price, and each one of them has some negatives about them. Pavelski is probably the "safest" one I suppose.

We just need a center. If we can get one of those guys without giving up a fortune, I'd go for it. I don't think we can afford to be too picky because whoever we get will easily be one of the better offensive players on this roster.
I actually liked Perron. I think he only over-held the puck because the Blues didn't have any other playmakers. He had to in order to get good shots. In Spezza's case, playing with Schwartz and Tarasenko, I'd want him to get the puck on their sticks though, not play around with it. I think next year, those kids will make their center better, not the other way around. I still want someone good who can get them the puck, but they don't need an offensive juggernaut.

That's why I am hesitant of the trade market. We have very few prospects and very little depth. I'd take a deal for any guy I have spoken against (Thornton, Pavelski, Spezza, Kesler) if it was the right deal. However, we have already made an offer for Spezza at the trade deadline and it was rejected. So they probably want more than we are willing to offer at the time, which means we'd probably overpay now if we got him. IT's possible the price has dropped. They were in the playoff hunt at the deadline. They do have a good young center to take on more minutes, Zibanejad. However, I doubt they would give Spezza away. He is a 70 point scorer (former 90).

I'd rather grab a lesser player from free agency, like Legwand, Grabovski, Cammalleri. They'd sign for cheaper and take no assets. I'll freely admit they aren't as good. However, we can use the extra cap space to bolster elsewhere.

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05-12-2014, 06:05 PM
  #88
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Ok, I'm new with all of that...so does the cap hit affect us or is it all in the same?
A players cap hit is determined by the average value of his contract per year. It does not matter how it is distributed. You take the total payout and divide by the numer of years. That is the cap hit. So if a contract is front-loaded, the cap hit is higher than salary at the end. If it is back-loaded, it is less. Here is an example. A guy gets a 4 year contract for $10M ($1M, $1M, $3M, $5M). The cap hit for every year is $2.5M. In year 1, the guy gets a check for $1M though (or several checks adding up to that). If he is traded, his cap hit is still $2.5M even if he is paid $5M.

If the other team retains salary, it helps the cap and actual dollars spent. However, you can't retain more than 50% of either. So if a player is due $5M on a 2.5M cap hit, you can't retain half the salary and wipe the cap hit. You can retain half the salary ($2.5) and half the hit (1.25).

Edit: As an after thought, it is nice for Stillman and his pocketbook to get Spezza for $4M. We are a small market team and it helps if we have an internal cap. However, since the cap hit is still $7M, it does not allow us to use the money to sign another player. I am hoping we spend close to the cap.


Last edited by Majorityof1: 05-12-2014 at 06:11 PM.
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05-13-2014, 12:18 AM
  #89
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Still think if we don't get Stastny our best bet moving forward would be through the draft. It's just how you build teams these days. While guys like Oshie, Perron, and Berglund turned out to be good players they just weren't the offensive players we need to win. We won too many games over the course of our rebuild and that really screwed us. I'd take a year or 2 of mediocrity for a guy who would develop into a true #1C. But we will continue to try and trade for or sign a guy who just won't get the job done like all the other years.

The sad reality is that it will never happen though. I really hope Fabbri drops to us in the draft though.

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05-13-2014, 03:23 AM
  #90
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I'd rather grab a lesser player from free agency, like Legwand, Grabovski, Cammalleri. They'd sign for cheaper and take no assets. I'll freely admit they aren't as good. However, we can use the extra cap space to bolster elsewhere.
Okay.
What the devil would you sign with this extra money? As wonderful as additional scoring depth would be, it'll be wasted on a third line. Unless the Blues sign Vanek nobody is getting displaced in the top 6.
Currently the defense is an enormous percentage of the total team budget. And this year proved pretty nicely that acquiring that magical "stud" goalie doesn't always work out.

The Blues biggest need, by far, is a #1 or very good #2 center. And you want to get an average #2 or good #3 and spend money elsewhere.
Or in the case of Cammer, not even a center at all.

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05-13-2014, 07:48 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Majorityof1 View Post
A players cap hit is determined by the average value of his contract per year. It does not matter how it is distributed. You take the total payout and divide by the numer of years. That is the cap hit. So if a contract is front-loaded, the cap hit is higher than salary at the end. If it is back-loaded, it is less. Here is an example. A guy gets a 4 year contract for $10M ($1M, $1M, $3M, $5M). The cap hit for every year is $2.5M. In year 1, the guy gets a check for $1M though (or several checks adding up to that). If he is traded, his cap hit is still $2.5M even if he is paid $5M.

If the other team retains salary, it helps the cap and actual dollars spent. However, you can't retain more than 50% of either. So if a player is due $5M on a 2.5M cap hit, you can't retain half the salary and wipe the cap hit. You can retain half the salary ($2.5) and half the hit (1.25).

Edit: As an after thought, it is nice for Stillman and his pocketbook to get Spezza for $4M. We are a small market team and it helps if we have an internal cap. However, since the cap hit is still $7M, it does not allow us to use the money to sign another player. I am hoping we spend close to the cap.
I get it now. I guess I was under the impression that Ott couldn't retain salary now but I guess they could but would be restricted to 2mil? If so that would drop Spezza down to 5 mil.

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05-13-2014, 08:13 AM
  #92
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I get it now. I guess I was under the impression that Ott couldn't retain salary now but I guess they could but would be restricted to 2mil? If so that would drop Spezza down to 5 mil.
They are on a budget, so I doubt they'll retain salary and it's not like they need to for us. Cap wise we'd be fine for next season, and 4 million in actual dollars is more than acceptable for Stillman.

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05-13-2014, 08:15 AM
  #93
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They are on a budget, so I doubt they'll retain salary and it's not like they need to for us. Cap wise we'd be fine for next season, and 4 million in actual dollars is more than acceptable for Stillman.
I got the impression they were going to have issues reaching the cap floor

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05-13-2014, 08:18 AM
  #94
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I got the impression they were going to have issues reaching the cap floor
They'll just sign some vets instead of retaining salary if reaching the floor becomes an issue. Budget teams don't pay empty money.

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05-13-2014, 08:50 AM
  #95
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They'll just sign some vets instead of retaining salary if reaching the floor becomes an issue. Budget teams don't pay empty money.
I see, I was hoping shattenkirk was someone they really wanted. With that cap hit of 7mil, that's a disinterest for spezza.....After watching more video of him, he would be the most offensive option and has that game breaking ability.....

Oh decisions decisions that we have no control over lol....

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05-13-2014, 08:51 AM
  #96
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I really hope we can get a center withou giving up Shatty or Jaskin/Rattie, but the more I think about the more I think that if that is the case we wouldn't get a good center in return. I guess you have to give to get.


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05-13-2014, 09:47 AM
  #97
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So from popular choices, who do you want from a trade.
1. Eric Stall
2. Ryan Kesler
3. Jason Spezza
4. Other.

This is assuming statsny doesn't hit free agency, and grabovski/Legwand aren't what we are looking for.

From the interviews and articles I've read, I would be blown away if we enter next season without one of these guys.

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05-13-2014, 10:47 AM
  #98
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Id prfer Kadri/Stepan/Skinner but Spezza and Staal are options too. I'm not sold on Kesler.

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05-13-2014, 10:57 AM
  #99
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Skinner is a winger...kadri has potential and I do like him. And I don't get stepan...I'm fairly ignorant of him but I've watched him in the Olympics and playoffs this year....I'm not overly impressed

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05-13-2014, 11:09 AM
  #100
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Skinner can very well play center as well. He's played both.

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