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Why Does this game make people so crazy?

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Old
05-06-2014, 09:37 AM
  #1
Coach Craig
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Why Does this game make people so crazy?

This week in court in Thunder Bay has been a police officer charged with assaulting a 12 year old hockey player. The incident occurred during one of the bigger tournaments in the region. Strange fact of the case: The Police Officer's child was playing in the game while the child assaulted was getting ready to play in the following game, You read that correct: the officer assaulted a kid who was getting ready to play in a game after his kid's game.

I understand things happen in the heat of the moment, people have temporary insanity when it comes to their kid and when they perceive a wrong to have occurred. This does not appear to be the case.

What is it about hockey that makes typically reasonable people become unreasonable?

Story from time of arrest

Trial Report

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05-06-2014, 10:19 AM
  #2
jorbjorb
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people are just passionate about it i guess.
crazy people in all sports
ping pong, football,
soccer, baseball , basketball

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05-06-2014, 05:20 PM
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SJGoalie32
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If this were a discussion about violence in and around beer or youth leagues, I'd say it is a combination of the general violence and danger of the sport (an accidental check into the boards causes potentially far more damage and angst than getting accidentally hit by a softball) and the culture of the sport that celebrates it (bare-knuckle brawling on the ice is tolerated and celebrated at the most visible levels, and still highly encouraged by competitive teams at youth levels).

But as this is a parent assaulting a kid....I'd say this can be dismissed as your simple run of the mill psychotic parent/youth sport outburst.

This isn't confined to hockey. This problem can be seen in baseball, softball, basketball, soccer, figure skating, gymnastics......really any competitive event involving children where their insane parents are present.

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05-06-2014, 09:11 PM
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scryan
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If the facts are true that cop is irresponsible(mod edit).

BUT, this thread, the stories... ect... Kinda blowing it out of proportion. Try actually reading the trial report, because its pretty timid.

When you say that he assaulted the youth... Big range there with that word assaulted... and to say that and that alone kind of implies there was a fight or someone was attacked. Sounds a bit different when you say
"The Police Officer's child was playing in the game while the child who was nudged twice was getting ready to play in the following game, You read that correct: the officer twice nudged a kid who was getting ready to play in a game after his kid's game. "
It reads HUGELY different IMO.

Lets keep things in perspective is all I am saying. The official accusation is (and the defendant is not even found guilty of this yet, so this is one side/worst case)
"the youth speaks about how he had three separate encounters in a short period of time with Oster. On two occasions, Oster allegedly bumped into the youth, once with his shoulder and once with his elbow."
"The youth testified that he was not hurt, did not go to hospital and had no bruises. He described the push as "not that hard."

That is pretty different then picture that is painted by this thread.

Again, the kid was 12... While 12 is easily old enough for the kid to be an obnoxious little punk as an adult, and ESPECIALLY a cop, you don't get to even talk **** or lay into the kid... Mostly you can just look to report to who is responsible for him (Parent, coach, ect). I don't know what kind of adult is pushing a kid...
But lets not fly off the handle about how he assaulted the kid with two light pushes at different times.


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 05-07-2014 at 10:18 AM. Reason: phrasing
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05-06-2014, 10:27 PM
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Wilch
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Is the cop Mike Milbury's sibling or cousin?

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05-07-2014, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
I'd say this can be dismissed as your simple run of the mill psychotic parent/youth sport outburst.
(emphasis added)

It's pretty sad that this statement makes sense.

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05-07-2014, 09:23 AM
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Stupidity is our zombie apocalypse.

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05-07-2014, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scryan View Post
If the facts are true that cop is irresponsible(mod edit).

BUT, this thread, the stories... ect... Kinda blowing it out of proportion. Try actually reading the trial report, because its pretty timid.

When you say that he assaulted the youth... Big range there with that word assaulted... and to say that and that alone kind of implies there was a fight or someone was attacked. Sounds a bit different when you say
"The Police Officer's child was playing in the game while the child who was nudged twice was getting ready to play in the following game, You read that correct: the officer twice nudged a kid who was getting ready to play in a game after his kid's game. "
It reads HUGELY different IMO.

Lets keep things in perspective is all I am saying. The official accusation is (and the defendant is not even found guilty of this yet, so this is one side/worst case)
"the youth speaks about how he had three separate encounters in a short period of time with Oster. On two occasions, Oster allegedly bumped into the youth, once with his shoulder and once with his elbow."
"The youth testified that he was not hurt, did not go to hospital and had no bruises. He described the push as "not that hard."

That is pretty different then picture that is painted by this thread.

Again, the kid was 12... While 12 is easily old enough for the kid to be an obnoxious little punk as an adult, and ESPECIALLY a cop, you don't get to even talk **** or lay into the kid... Mostly you can just look to report to who is responsible for him (Parent, coach, ect). I don't know what kind of adult is pushing a kid...
But lets not fly off the handle about how he assaulted the kid with two light pushes at different times.
May be a little too close to the situation. I coached in the division the year this happened. Familiar with the kid/dad, not familiar with the Cop. The kid is a decent player, not known for being dirty. Dad is a quiet guy, actually a pretty ideal hockey parent - one that is supportive and not going to kick up a fuss. Heard audio of him talking at some event around the time the incident happened. He was having a really tough time reconciling what had happened and the emotion was quite strong. Near tears.

Been involved in coaching many years now. I have seen reasonably intelligent people, professionals go outside of what is accepted as "normal" behaviour- ie, high ranking school official hip check another mother into the boards as she walked past at the end of game. No clue what happened in the stands but hard time imagining that response was a) appropriate b) possible.

Don't even get me started on novice hockey where the parent expectations and erratic behaviour seem to peak when the kids are at their first stage in a (more than it should be) competitive environment.

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05-07-2014, 12:28 PM
  #9
TheRedShadow
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The game doesn't make people crazy. People have issues. They choose the venues in which to manifest those. People choose hockey for a reason.

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05-07-2014, 01:44 PM
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Yes, and I wonder why they choose hockey. The game is for the kids and for, in order, fun, exercise, and many other positives that should develop from being involved.

What is it that leads to a cop, an alleged community leader and one entrusted to protect and serve, to shove a 12 year old?

What is it that leads to a principal, a person that is expected to be a leader in the environment we entrust our children to learn so much, to body check another parent because their child's team lost in a shootout and isn't going to the tournament final?

Baffles me and I have been involved in kids sports for 20 years now.

What can we as organizers of kids' sports -- I serve on the executive for a sport in the city -- can do to place emphasis back where it belongs and curb the insanity that tarnishes the game for the kids?

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05-07-2014, 02:32 PM
  #11
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Sport brings out our primary human instinct to capture, kill, hunt, eat, dominate or subjugate other species or tribes or make war; real alpha male stuff. Now that we are generally civilised and forced to largely curb such instincts in day to day life, we satisfy that craving largely on the sports field or arena. That's why people ultimately pay big money to watch what is really little more than someone kicking a ball or hitting a little rubber disc with a piece of wood.

I've never gone off while playing, because I've largely been in control of or had control over my own destiny, win, lose, or draw, you had the opportunity to directly influence the outcome or do your best to win, but on the sidelines, it can be easy to feel a little frustrated because you have little (coaching) or no (watching) ability to control or influence the outcome.

I've probably verbalised some frustration on the odd rare occasion, but struggle to see how people lack the self control to not become physical.

For the cop too, undoubtedly he's probably carrying a lot of frustration or stress from his work around with him too that he may seek a release of through his kids sport, wrongly. It's unacceptable, but hard too not to sympathise just a little. Not like he hit the kid or knocked him on his backside, but he was way out of line.

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05-07-2014, 02:41 PM
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Hockey is a violent sport. I cringe when I hear guys complain about getting hit then yell at the refs it's a no checking league. It's not a no hitting league and you can check but you might get a penalty. I'm really amazed that grown men play hockey expecting NO contact and it's usually the more skilled players. That said I think you have to be off your rocker a little to play a sport where you carry a weapon on frozen ice with 2 blades attached to your feet and a rock hard rubber puck. I think parents get crazy because it's such a huge investment and when they don't see their return or realize their child isn't special or is being treated like he's special the craziness ensues. I'd imagine you'd see the same sort of antics in other violent sports like football, martial arts or boxing. But those sports don't carry the same price tag as youth hockey does.

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05-07-2014, 02:48 PM
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No checking to me means pretty much no open ice hitting. There's some guys who look good playing that level with their heads down that you could absolutely wipe out if you wanted to, but if you're on the puck, in front of the net or in the corners, you're getting a little bit of a hello if you like it or not, conscious of the fact that you don't want to injure anyone though.

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05-07-2014, 02:52 PM
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Steelhead16
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It seems to show up in sports more or at least the media reports the sports incidents more because it makes for a better story, but the fact of the matter is people in general have less respect for others than they ever did in the past. Social media lets a lot of people get their brave up who never would have in the past with no consequences. Many of those people think they can carry that lack of respect into the real world with no consequences as well. I'm not saying it didn't happen in the world before social media, there have always been and always will be A-holes in the world. I've seen 5 different parent brawls in my years of playing, coaching youth hockey but it just seems like it is getting worse now that the words "friends" and "like" seem to have a different meaning.

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05-07-2014, 02:59 PM
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Good discussion people. Thanks for jumping in.

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05-07-2014, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
It seems to show up in sports more or at least the media reports the sports incidents more because it makes for a better story, but the fact of the matter is people in general have less respect for others than they ever did in the past. Social media lets a lot of people get their brave up who never would have in the past with no consequences. Many of those people think they can carry that lack of respect into the real world with no consequences as well. I'm not saying it didn't happen in the world before social media, there have always been and always will be A-holes in the world. I've seen 5 different parent brawls in my years of playing, coaching youth hockey but it just seems like it is getting worse now that the words "friends" and "like" seem to have a different meaning.
In terms of social media, you've got a lot more people who think they're the centre of the universe; and they are the centre of their own little universe. Put some of them together in the same place and they 're more likely to collide with others.

You've probably got more people with a whole lot of other problems and stresses in their lives now too, financial, employment and the like. The sport is a release for them and they probably have a whole lot more to release than people might once have had.

I know the older I get, the less crap I put up with in terms of putting people in their place, especially when it's my time or the kids time. I'm always quick to call out people who are out of line, but being a big guy, any idiots think twice about escalating anything.

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05-07-2014, 04:33 PM
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Not guilty was the decision rendered today

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05-07-2014, 04:47 PM
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Well there you go. It didn't sound particularly serious in the first place, though as the judge said, the guy was out of line.

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05-07-2014, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Craig View Post
May be a little too close to the situation. I...
Hey don't get me wrong... Wouldn't be surprised if that guy is not the kinda guy you want to look up to... Gotta be a pretty crazy situation before you find me purposely making physical contact with a 12 year old.

But yeah, the story at worst amounts to this guy lighting pushing a kid twice. Bit crazy to have a discussion about the man by name on a national platform. Would barely be worth discussing on a local check out line if you were from that town... let alone published nationally and brought up by people hundreds of miles way. A 12 year old being pushed "not that hard" is not the worst thing that happened within 100 miles of you yesterday... possibly not even the worst hockey related thing.

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05-08-2014, 07:31 AM
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I want to piggyback on what are feel are the most important points that were brought up here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntsSheffield View Post
The game doesn't make people crazy. People have issues. They choose the venues in which to manifest those. People choose hockey for a reason.
I think the "Beer League Frustrations Vent" page is filled with many examples of this. Plenty of guys hate their job, are unhappy with their wife/girlfriend, have made poor life decisions, or just generally have a chip on their shoulder that they bring to them to the rink at 9:30 PM on a Monday night along with a case of beer. They slash you, talk s**t to you, run you, sucker you, and try to goad you into dropping the gloves... Unfortunately, these people also have children who they sign up to play hockey, and they become fixtures at the rink, banging on the glass, yelling at the refs and coaches, and trying to goad other parents into fighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacifist Goon View Post
I've never gone off while playing, because I've largely been in control of or had control over my own destiny, win, lose, or draw, you had the opportunity to directly influence the outcome or do your best to win, but on the sidelines, it can be easy to feel a little frustrated because you have little (coaching) or no (watching) ability to control or influence the outcome.
I think my last comment also applies here, but you don't have to be a complete loser to be an armchair coach. Suburban "soccer moms" (and dads) fill the role just fine, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
I think parents get crazy because it's such a huge investment and when they don't see their return or realize their child isn't special or is being treated like he's special the craziness ensues.
I think this is the biggest factor in all of the craziness. The worst are dads (and moms, though I have never encountered this) that played the game and acheived some measure of success (hotshot in high school, played junior/college, minor pro, or *gulp* actually played in the Show). Automatically they know what it takes to win and get their kid to the next level, and by god, everyone needs to shut-up and listen to what they have to say. "Why isn't the coach giving Junior more power play time? I better have a discussion with him and remind him that DII college hockey; that's how I know my kid is a star!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
It seems to show up in sports more or at least the media reports the sports incidents more because it makes for a better story, but the fact of the matter is people in general have less respect for others than they ever did in the past. Social media lets a lot of people get their brave up who never would have in the past with no consequences. Many of those people think they can carry that lack of respect into the real world with no consequences as well. I'm not saying it didn't happen in the world before social media, there have always been and always will be A-holes in the world. I've seen 5 different parent brawls in my years of playing, coaching youth hockey but it just seems like it is getting worse now that the words "friends" and "like" seem to have a different meaning.
Social media has also helped to promote a bully culture, where you can take shots at someone and run away. You can also force your viewpoint down someone's throat and not have to hear the other side of the argument; now we have all of these punk kids and punk parents running around with a false sense of superiority and entitlement because they are "right" and everyone else is "wrong" because they said so... It also doesn't help that all of a sudden, everyone is worried about a kid's self esteem. Everyone is special and everyone is a winner. "Nice job Johnny, here's your 6th place medal!" I know that this has become somewhat of a cliche, but kids need to be exposed to adversity and some degree of failure. I am not a parent and I can empathize with parents that want to sheild their children from anything that may be painful, these types of parents are hurting their child in the long run. Later in life when the inevitable failure comes (and it will), "6th place Johnny" is going to be in for a very rude awakening.

Although I have enjoyed this discussion, I fear that this problem will only get worse. Look who is raising the crazy hockey parents of tomorrow...

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05-08-2014, 07:38 AM
  #21
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Agreed that this wasn't all that bad although out of line.

Also agree people have their own issues and just use hockey as a way to get them out. I remember in the finals of the playoffs the other teams coach hopped the glass and tried to fight our coach (which wouldn't have been a good idea considering he was in the military). People seem to just forget themselves when it comes to hockey at times

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05-08-2014, 01:13 PM
  #22
Goonzilla
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I've coached and had kids being coached in a number of sports and seen their coaches and others in action. Outside of who the best players are, what the lineups or positions ought to be, which is pretty subjective and not worth bothering over, the biggest problem or biggest fault you find is getting the balance right between participation and giving everyone a fair go and also being competitive and playing to win.

Everyone will have a different idea of where that balance is, but if you can get close you have the least problems with parents. The most competitive 'play to win at all costs' types are the worst and the 'winning doesn't matter, I just want to give everyone an equal slice of the pie' are just as bad. Both are hopeless and shouldn't be around kids sports.

Obviously where that line or balance is changes as the kids get older.

I remember one kid who was in his first year playing, a long way behind the rest skills wise and not particularly big or athletic. I played him in a position where it would be easier for him to learn but just couldn't give him the same amount of game time as some of the more accomplished guys in that spot, but I spent a hell of a long time working with him and giving him extra help at training and gave him more game time against the weaker teams or when we had a good lead.

We played the top team and decided with the co-coach to play our strongest line up. Anyway, this kid didn't get on that day for two reasons, one of which was that he really wasn't up to it, but also,to protect him a bit. They would have targeted him which wouldn't have done his confidence any favours. No issue for me because I keep track of playing time and he'd get a start the following week, that sort of thing.

Anyways, after the game the kids parents are irate, because his grandparents came from out of town to see him play. Well thanks for letting us know mom and dad. I would have given him half a game no problem if you'd bothered to let us know.

We decided to try and give everyone at least a minimum of 60% time on the field over the season, obviously with the better players featuring more and the strugglers at least the 60%. This kid played the least but was something like 57% or thereabouts. When you're in front, the stars get plenty of rest. He'd start some games, come off the bench on others and get the odd full game.

He stuck with the game though and improved, which I counted as a success, where had he been thrown to the wolves I doubt he would have. I know he had less of a problem than his parents. He actually learned and improved plenty, but was still behind the others. No pleasing some people.


Last edited by Goonzilla: 05-08-2014 at 01:18 PM.
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05-13-2014, 01:50 PM
  #23
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Our kids are 5 or 6 years old and some kids are already throwing their bodies around when most fall on their own anyway. Of course you're not going to discourage your kid from doing that especially when they're learning all about the game, but this can be emotional for the parents when they see their kids get hit and potentially hurt when they can barely skate without falling with only a nudge. What are ya gonna do?

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05-13-2014, 02:30 PM
  #24
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My boy won basketball yesterday 111-21. It was 25-0 before the other team scored from a free throw to make it 25-1. I didn't enjoy it one bit and it was no good for either team.

It could have been a lot more to a lot less, but the coach did the right thing and ran the bench on the court for most of the game, which was the right thing to do.

As long as a coach or parent is smart or decent enough to teach their team or kid that there's no glory, skill or toughness in smashing some kid that can't skate or protect themselves. At the same time, the other kids need to know that the more they practice and improve the more even things will be and they can even start dishing some out instead of just taking it.

If there's one thing that happens as they get older, some star kids fade into obscurity and some late bloomers leave those early star kids in their dust. It's not satisfying to see it in the kids, but it's great to see the bubbles burst on some of the parents.

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05-19-2014, 12:08 PM
  #25
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Hockey parents have to be the worst in sports.

My nephew was playing an Atom house tournament. A visiting team came that stacked their team with all 2nd year players (Since they don't have an Atom Development program) in a tournament where the host teams have mostly 1st year players.

The out of town team was dominating like 15-1 every game against the host teams and the parents of the visiting team were nuts. They'd call for their kids to hit the weak team players (full of 1st year players) and kept making condescending remarks like "These kids must not play much". Eventually one of the host players got hurt and the visiting team parents and coaches were irate because the host teams asked they stop playing rough.

One parent yelled at their kid to hit my nephew but I thought it was hilarious because how nuts people act at games. Its funny at Atom house tournaments parents yelling saying to hit other kids and to CYCLE!!!

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