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Old
05-06-2014, 07:52 PM
  #51
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
I still think firing Torts was the right move, but I've been saying he's a solid coach despite all the Vancouver fans throwing a party over his firing (although he did not do a good job with the Canucks at all, and while he was not the main problem, he didn't do anything to help).

And, yes, it pains me to very core to admit you were right about Nash...but you were right about Nash. Gotta admit when I'm wrong.
It's definitely rough, watching it play out like this. I give you major credit for continuing to analyze players and the team and being willing to reassess things as more information becomes available. That's something almost all of us would be better served by doing ourselves, inside and outside of hockey-talk.

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05-06-2014, 08:05 PM
  #52
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I've defended Nash as much as I could but he just makes it impossible to do any longer. He might take the most non-threatening shots I have ever seen.

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05-06-2014, 08:09 PM
  #53
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Who do I hate more then Rick Nash today..... honestly can't think of anyone.

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05-06-2014, 08:16 PM
  #54
Brian Boyle
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I understand wanting nash gone, his two playoffs have been sad, however if you get rid of he and Richards who is going to replace the 50+ goals (prorated) that they score between them each year?
You grin and bear it to get his ineffectiveness off this team. use the cap space elsewhere.

Besides, I'm sure if Nash were traded that he wouldn't be moved unless we were getting back somewhat of a replacement.

Which is why I once again suggest Nash for Fleishcmann+.

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05-06-2014, 08:22 PM
  #55
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Seems like you'd get the most out of Nash with a coach that will be tough on him. AV isn't that kind of coach, and Nash keeps on floating.

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Old
05-06-2014, 08:39 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by xsniper11x View Post
I would've agreed, until we traded Gaborik. For all Slat's shortcomings, he hasn't hesitated to move "stars" when it was time (whether its been trades, buyouts, AHL demotions). Question is, are we willing to eat 4 yrs of dead cap? If we did, I believe bubble teams (Dallas, Leafs, Caps, Wings; the list is long) would be all over Nash at $5.8mm, and would give up real assets to acquire him.
The whole thing about what a team receives in a trade is leverage. The Rangers don't have any leverage with Rick Nash. If Glen Sather tried to trade Rick Nash this summer, GMs on "the bubble teams" are not going to give us prospects for a expensive player who hasn't been able to score in the playoffs.

The best the Rangers would be able to do would take back some crap from another team to offset some of the salary, but the Montreal trade is going to happen again. We are stuck either with the guy, or we will have to eat a lot of **** when we try to trade him.

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Old
05-06-2014, 08:46 PM
  #57
Zats Muccarello
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Somehow, by means of Slats Magic, move Nash for Pacioretty.

Get it done!

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Old
05-06-2014, 09:06 PM
  #58
Brian Boyle
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Originally Posted by Zats Muccarello View Post
Somehow, by means of Slats Magic, move Nash for Pacioretty.

Get it done!
Believe it or not, Pacioretty has been almost equally as ineffective for the Habs so far as Nash has been for us.

Would still do it, but thought it was worth bringing up. He's basically a Kreider clone. Big fast, great release on his shot, not a great stick handler, inconsistent production/physicality.

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Old
05-06-2014, 09:07 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 View Post
The whole thing about what a team receives in a trade is leverage. The Rangers don't have any leverage with Rick Nash. If Glen Sather tried to trade Rick Nash this summer, GMs on "the bubble teams" are not going to give us prospects for a expensive player who hasn't been able to score in the playoffs.

The best the Rangers would be able to do would take back some crap from another team to offset some of the salary, but the Montreal trade is going to happen again. We are stuck either with the guy, or we will have to eat a lot of **** when we try to trade him.
No leverage if we are over the cap and teams know we HAVE to move him, which isn't the case. No leverage if he pulls what he did in CBJ and demand a trade to 1 team. Again, then don't move him.

But, if he continues to underperform, the fans and media are on his case, both parties agree its in each of their bests interests to move on AND we eat some salary to make his cap hit more attractive?
That's an avenue worth exploring.

In a market where mediocre UFAs go for $5mm+, a proven 30G guy for under $6mm HAS REAL VALUE. Everyone keeps talking about his playoff performance, but half the league is just trying to make the playoffs. GMs/coaches' jobs depend on it, and everyone's focused on self preservation. It all depends on where your team is in the cycle. We're a playoff team looking for a cup, so move the PO underperformer to a team who's just looking to make the playoffs.

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Old
05-06-2014, 09:28 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by xsniper11x View Post
I would've agreed, until we traded Gaborik. For all Slat's shortcomings, he hasn't hesitated to move "stars" when it was time (whether its been trades, buyouts, AHL demotions). Question is, are we willing to eat 4 yrs of dead cap? If we did, I believe bubble teams (Dallas, Leafs, Caps, Wings; the list is long) would be all over Nash at $5.8mm, and would give up real assets to acquire him.
This the your post to which I responded. My issue was with the bolded statements.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xsniper11x View Post
No leverage if we are over the cap and teams know we HAVE to move him, which isn't the case. No leverage if he pulls what he did in CBJ and demand a trade to 1 team. Again, then don't move him.

But, if he continues to underperform, the fans and media are on his case, both parties agree its in each of their bests interests to move on AND we eat some salary to make his cap hit more attractive?
That's an avenue worth exploring.

In a market where mediocre UFAs go for $5mm+, a proven 30G guy for under $6mm HAS REAL VALUE. Everyone keeps talking about his playoff performance, but half the league is just trying to make the playoffs. GMs/coaches' jobs depend on it, and everyone's focused on self preservation. It all depends on where your team is in the cycle. We're a playoff team looking for a cup, so move the PO underperformer to a team who's just looking to make the playoffs.
This was your response to my response.

First you said that If we ate some salary to move Nash, teams would not only jump at that, but they would also give up real assets to acquire him. By "real assets," I assumed you meant something that team had that a team such as the Rangers would "really want." A bubble team you listed included the Redwings. An assets the Red Wings have that is real is their skate sharpeners, hot dog stands, and janitors (although janitors are not capital they are labor, so they are a form of a real asset). These are the only real assets I could see a team such as the Redwings giving us for a "prime-time scorer" who hasn't been able to score in the playoffs. I also think that since all of HF boards as well as the hockey community in general are aware of the rank feeling we, the Ranger fans, have for Rick Nash, the other GMs may have an idea that we are desperate to get rid of him.

If Rick Nash doesn't regain his mojo, we will be stuck with him in many different forms.

If we bought him out, we would have to live with Richards contract.

If we keep him, we have his contract as well as less wiggle room for other players.

If we move him, it will be out of not only exasperation, but also desperation, and we will have to eat something there too.

There will be no easy way out of this if he doesn't come back to form.

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Old
05-06-2014, 09:59 PM
  #61
xsniper11x
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Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 View Post
This the your post to which I responded. My issue was with the bolded statements.




This was your response to my response.

First you said that If we ate some salary to move Nash, teams would not only jump at that, but they would also give up real assets to acquire him. By "real assets," I assumed you meant something that team had that a team such as the Rangers would "really want." A bubble team you listed included the Redwings. An assets the Red Wings have that is real is their skate sharpeners, hot dog stands, and janitors (although janitors are not capital they are labor, so they are a form of a real asset). These are the only real assets I could see a team such as the Redwings giving us for a "prime-time scorer" who hasn't been able to score in the playoffs. I also think that since all of HF boards as well as the hockey community in general are aware of the rank feeling we, the Ranger fans, have for Rick Nash, the other GMs may have an idea that we are desperate to get rid of him.

If Rick Nash doesn't regain his mojo, we will be stuck with him in many different forms.

If we bought him out, we would have to live with Richards contract.

If we keep him, we have his contract as well as less wiggle room for other players.

If we move him, it will be out of not only exasperation, but also desperation, and we will have to eat something there too.

There will be no easy way out of this if he doesn't come back to form.
Fair points, but I simply disagree that Nash is some kind of negative value asset (or enough to return just a few pucks and skates). I think many underestimate how desperate teams are, including their coaches and GMs. I'm more concerned about Nash waiving his NTC and playing ball than I am about being able to trade him at a reduced cap hit. I wouldn't expect a ground breaking return, but in the eyes of many at the time, we didnt give up much either.

Nevertheless, keep your expectations low and you'll never be disappointed.

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Old
05-06-2014, 10:02 PM
  #62
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Or he gets another concussion and goes Pronger...

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05-06-2014, 10:46 PM
  #63
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Kinda reminds me of a guy who wore 88 for the blueshirts and went soft after concussions.....

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Old
05-06-2014, 10:50 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by xsniper11x View Post

Nevertheless, keep your expectations low and you'll never be disappointed.
That should be the New York Rangers' Official Motto.

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Old
05-06-2014, 11:10 PM
  #65
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That should be the New York Rangers' Official Motto.

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Old
05-07-2014, 04:49 AM
  #66
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I'm on the same boat. I can't defend Nash. Not at all.

Get rid of him, get some youth where we need it. Centers, OFD, any of those.

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05-07-2014, 04:50 AM
  #67
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I still think firing Torts was the right move, but I've been saying he's a solid coach despite all the Vancouver fans throwing a party over his firing (although he did not do a good job with the Canucks at all, and while he was not the main problem, he didn't do anything to help).

And, yes, it pains me to very core to admit you were right about Nash...but you were right about Nash. Gotta admit when I'm wrong.
Agree with all of this.

I really hate being wrong about Nash. Had a lot of hope for him.

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Old
05-07-2014, 05:24 AM
  #68
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So we're all ready to trade him? Okay, count me in.

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05-07-2014, 06:51 AM
  #69
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Hossa was dogged early in his career for being a playoff no show and he gradually became a playoff performer. Aside from his stint with Atlanta, he was on much better teams.

This is Nash's 3rd playoff appearance. He's missed 17g with a head injury. The league doesn't protect the players so he's modified his game it seems. As it stands hes one of our few go to guys, which is a recipe for failure anyway.

The rangers need a #1 Center, a scoring LW, a PM and overall physicality.

Trading Nash isn't the answer

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05-07-2014, 06:56 AM
  #70
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The rangers problem start and end with the lack of a true number 1 center in the last 20 years. Simple as that. If you watch Nash play he has to create every shot and never has space that's directly related to Stephan.
This is one of the biggest issues here. Love how everyone tried to ignore it

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05-07-2014, 07:12 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
This is one of the biggest issues here. Love how everyone tried to ignore it
Well the thread is about no-show Nash. Nash isnt a center... Would be weird to bring that up in this thread one might think. Nash is talented enough to score goals without a legit #1 center. He's been doing that for his entire career.

You guys can try to blame everyone else but at the end of the day Nash isnt doing this team any favors. He's earning almost 8 million dollars a year. He has 0 goals. There are 12 other players on this team who are scoring goals and all of them are making significantly less money and brings significantly more to the table at this point.

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05-07-2014, 07:27 AM
  #72
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He's not scoring because he's hurt.

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Old
05-07-2014, 07:52 AM
  #73
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Get him off my favorite team and ill like him again, no problem. Hell I'd even trade him for Franzen, at least he stuck up for himself against Neil, I don't want to sit and watch Malkin destroy Nash's sissy ass again...

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Old
05-07-2014, 08:26 AM
  #74
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This is one of the biggest issues here. Love how everyone tried to ignore it
The Rangers have been trying to purchase the pivot position for years.

Drury, Gomez, and Richards are the centers that were available. The thing is that teams don't let elite centers walk. There's a reason that they won't pay a King's ransom for these players. The Rangers, however, always do.

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05-07-2014, 08:31 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 View Post
The Rangers have been trying to purchase the pivot position for years.

Drury, Gomez, and Richards are the centers that were available. The thing is that teams don't let elite centers walk. There's a reason that they won't pay a King's ransom for these players. The Rangers, however, always do.
Don't worry, I can picture at the trade deadline next year Sather is at a Callahan-like impasse with Staal's agent, so he trades Staal, a first and a second to San Jose for Joe Thornton, to rescue his trades for Nash and St Louis.

How often do you get a chance to acquire a Joe Thornton, and hey, who needs draft picks anyway?

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