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5/7/14: 11:30am Press Conference (Holmgren to President, Hextall to GM)

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05-07-2014, 03:39 PM
  #276
hockeyfreak7
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
He has to still be used in a scoring role. They're not going to pay him 4.75 million a year to do basically what they're asking Rinaldo to do.
4.75 is quickly becoming the cap hit of non impact players. We don't live in a sub 60mil cap world, anymore. This is what you pay for a veteran player with moderate offensive ability who bring strong leadership, physical play, and PP skills.

So you're not paying him for what Rinaldo does. Rinaldo just hits. That is all he does. Hartnell, while frustrating, still brings significant skills to the team.

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05-07-2014, 03:40 PM
  #277
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The difference being that Holmgren isn't as aggressively arrogant as Lowe.
I agree. I think he is also a better hockey mind than Lowe.

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05-07-2014, 03:41 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
4.75 is quickly becoming the cap hit of non impact players. We don't live in a sub 60mil cap world, anymore. This is what you pay for a veteran player with moderate offensive ability who bring strong leadership, physical play, and PP skills.

So you're not paying him for what Rinaldo does. Rinaldo just hits. That is all he does. Hartnell, while frustrating, still brings significant skills to the team.
Nailed it, IMO. The new CBA will have players cap hits becoming higher, along with the cap increasing. Contracts can't be looked at equally without considering context, IMO!

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05-07-2014, 03:44 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by MickeyMelchiondo View Post
he was sub-par all season
and worse than that during the short year last season

his type of game is not going to age well for a player who is already a piss-poor skater

I'd move him while he's still a somewhat attractive asset-in fact, I'd move him over any one else [forwards] we've spoken of moving-vinny, schenn jr, etc.
Subpar? He's played 13 seasons of NHL hockey. This was his third best statistically. You need to temper your expectations on his play if you think that was a subpar season.

He's played 75+ games a season in all but three years of his career. His ability to hold up is the least of my concerns.

And finally, he's not a bad skater. Bad balance? Sure, but the guy is actually very quick for someone at his playing weight.

You move Vinny well before you move Hartnell. The team needs are the justification for that.

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05-07-2014, 03:45 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
How do you define sub-par? I mean... 52 points isn't exactly a terrible year. If you're looking at his par to be 60 points, then I guess it's sub-par, but then your expectations are too high.
I'm not going off points, simply the eye test
I think you could take somewhere around 75% of the forwards in the league and have them score 20+ goals playing with #28 and #93

either move him or get him off of the 1st line

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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Subpar? He's played 13 seasons of NHL hockey. This was his third best statistically. You need to temper your expectations on his play if you think that was a subpar season.
yer twisting statistics
was his 7th best season goal-wise
and playing with probably the 2 best playmakers he'll ever play with [the season with 28/68 is arguable]

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And finally, he's not a bad skater
yes, he is
he's regressing and will continue to do so as his game will not age well...

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05-07-2014, 03:45 PM
  #281
LegionOfDoom91
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I still want to see a Hartnell-Couturier-Read line next year, I think that line has some good potential to be a successful one.

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05-07-2014, 03:45 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
4.75 is quickly becoming the cap hit of non impact players. We don't live in a sub 60mil cap world, anymore. This is what you pay for a veteran player with moderate offensive ability who bring strong leadership, physical play, and PP skills.

So you're not paying him for what Rinaldo does. Rinaldo just hits. That is all he does. Hartnell, while frustrating, still brings significant skills to the team.
I agree with you. He'll be on the second line and he'll do well in it if they get a left winger to play with Giroux. At that cap hit though he'll still be depended on to provide secondary scoring, not just forecheck and backcheck.

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05-07-2014, 03:46 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
How do you define sub-par? I mean... 52 points isn't exactly a terrible year. If you're looking at his par to be 60 points, then I guess it's sub-par, but then your expectations are too high.
Paced for 55 as well. His average season as a Flyer is 52 points per 82 games.

Adjusted to league scoring it was his 3rd best season in 'adjusted PPG' after 11-12 and 08-09. It was actually his 3rd best season in actual PPG as well, and best in assists per game.

It was however his 2nd worst full season in GPG since 2002-03. (after 09-10)

He was piss poor for the first 20-25 games though, as he was for all last year, I thought he was done I must be honest... (most of the team was for ~10-15, but his struggles seemed to carry on) but was then pretty darn good for the last 50 games he played.

And I do agree that Giroux deserves a better winger.

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05-07-2014, 03:47 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by MickeyMelchiondo View Post
I'm not going off points, simply the eye test
I think you could take somewhere around 75% of the forwards in the league and have them score 20+ goals playing with #28 and #93

either move him or get him off of the 1st line
He's been a common denominator on the Flyers' best lines since like 2008. I think he's more of a cause for a line doing well and not just a passenger.

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05-07-2014, 03:48 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I still want to see a Hartnell-Couturier-Read line next year, I think that line has some good potential to be a successful one.
If Couturier keeps up his defensive prowess and keeps upping his physicality like he has seemed to be doing, that line would be an incredible pain in the ass to play against.

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05-07-2014, 03:49 PM
  #286
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I am sad to see Homer go. He had the most guts of any GM in the league. However I am very encouraged to hear what Hexy has had to say. Build through the draft, analytic mind, and knowing that the problem with this team is the forwards and how they fit together.
Break out the champagne!!!
We got a new GM in town with a different idea of how to build a team.
Maybe we can get some speed on the roster and become contenders for the cup.
Here is to hoping Hexy can cleanup the mess that Homer left.

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05-07-2014, 03:50 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I still want to see a Hartnell-Couturier-Read line next year, I think that line has some good potential to be a successful one.
agreed-much better spot for #19, good combo from the roster

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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
He's been a common denominator on the Flyers' best lines since like 2008. I think he's more of a cause for a line doing well and not just a passenger.
he was a better player 6 years ago
these past 2 years, regression

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05-07-2014, 03:50 PM
  #288
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I like what Hextall has said about being patient, I just fear all the impatient fans calling for his head after a lean year or two.

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05-07-2014, 03:51 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I agree with you. He'll be on the second line and he'll do well in it if they get a left winger to play with Giroux. At that cap hit though he'll still be depended on to provide secondary scoring, not just forecheck and backcheck.
Secondary scoring would be a product of simplifying your game. I'm saying he shouldn't be focusing on scoring goals. He should be focusing on playing tough checking hockey, and the goals will then follow.

Personally, my hope is to see a Hartnell-Laughton-Simmonds third line next year.

Has enough skill to turn the aggressive play into goals without requiring any inherent chemistry. That's currently the biggest problem with Hartnell (and Simmonds)-- they have no chemistry with anyone, and it's slowing down both lines 1 and 2.

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05-07-2014, 03:52 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
If Couturier keeps up his defensive prowess and keeps upping his physicality like he has seemed to be doing, that line would be an incredible pain in the ass to play against.
I think Hartnell could bring what Downie brought earlier in the year if not better to that line seeing as he's better player overall than Downie.

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05-07-2014, 04:00 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
Nailed it, IMO. The new CBA will have players cap hits becoming higher, along with the cap increasing. Contracts can't be looked at equally without considering context, IMO!
It's also worth noting that, if I'm not mistaken, he signed for a smaller percentage of the cap with his current contract.

Edit: Yep, 8.4% then compared to 7.3%

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05-07-2014, 04:01 PM
  #292
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Hextall's first call should be to Poile and convince him to take Vinny because Peter needs him.

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05-07-2014, 04:04 PM
  #293
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Hextall's first call should be to Poile and convince him to take Vinny because Peter needs him.
Honestly, I could see Vinny wanting to go play for Peter over there. In a system he likes, helping younger player, in a position he prefers and with more than likely top 6 minutes. Vinny might have the hardest slapper on the team behind Weber.

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05-07-2014, 04:04 PM
  #294
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Secondary scoring would be a product of simplifying your game. I'm saying he shouldn't be focusing on scoring goals. He should be focusing on playing tough checking hockey, and the goals will then follow.

Personally, my hope is to see a Hartnell-Laughton-Simmonds third line next year.

Has enough skill to turn the aggressive play into goals without requiring any inherent chemistry. That's currently the biggest problem with Hartnell (and Simmonds)-- they have no chemistry with anyone, and it's slowing down both lines 1 and 2.
Fair enough, you're right there. I also wouldn't mind something like:

Akeson/Upgrade at left wing-Giroux-Read
Raffl-Schenn-Voracek
Hartnell-Couturier-Simmonds
Rinaldo-Laughton-Hall

That gives Giroux two shooters. Schenn gets two puck possession guys to help his game. Couturier gets two guys to bang and open up space for him. The fourth line gets a bit of skill with three guys that are willing to bang and challenge guys. This lineup also balances the lines by stacking some of the more defensively responsible forwards with some of the disasters.

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05-07-2014, 04:05 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Fair enough, you're right there. I also wouldn't mind something like

Akeson/Upgrade at left wing-Giroux-Read
Raffl-Schenn-Voracek
Hartnell-Couturier-Simmonds
Rinaldo-Laughton-Hall

That gives Giroux two shooters. Schenn gets two puck possession guys to help his game. Couturier gets two guys to bang and open up space for him. The fourth line gets a bit of skill with three guys that are willing to bang and challenge guys.
If we can get it under the cap:

Vanek-Giroux-Voracek
Akeson-Schenn-Simmonds
Hartnell-Couturier-Read
Raffl-Laughton-Hall

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05-07-2014, 04:07 PM
  #296
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I still think Vanek's going to Minnesota.

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05-07-2014, 04:10 PM
  #297
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TSN has whole presser fyi.

Love at the end when he gave Snider a little shot about you used to be able to rip up contracts and not easy to make go away anymore. Assume it was a shot at Bryz.

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05-07-2014, 04:12 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
If we can get it under the cap:

Vanek-Giroux-Voracek
Akeson-Schenn-Simmonds
Hartnell-Couturier-Read
Raffl-Laughton-Hall
Schenn isn't going to have a lot of success being asked to drive the puck possession on his line. I put him with Voracek and Raffl because those guys are comfortable with the puck on their stick in the neutral zone.

Giroux's line needs to get back into being more of a transition line. I don't want to see him playing dump and chase anymore. With Read and Akeson, they can become that threat again.

Couturier needs space to operate with, at least until he gets better at playing in a lot of traffic outside of just board battles. Simmonds and Hartnell could really open up some ice for him.

Vanek is a nice thought, but I doubt he comes here. I would have thought more of it with Homer at the helm, but I doubt Hextall wants his first big move to be signing a UFA that's going to get a ton of money. You might have to make his the highest paid player on this team to get him to come here, and I doubt Hextall wants to do something like that in year one. That's the kind of deal that can define you as a GM and potentially get you fired if it blows up in your face.

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05-07-2014, 04:19 PM
  #299
The Couturier Effect
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Couple of Hextall quotes from Meltzer:

@billmeltzer
Hextall: "Some people talk about small puck movers... but if you look at the best defensemen in the league, they’re not small puck movers."

@billmeltzer
Hextall: "We’ve got to be careful about getting too small. Look at some of the series out West and Boston – it’s not a small man’s game."

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05-07-2014, 04:22 PM
  #300
flyershockey
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Originally Posted by The Couturier Effect View Post
Couple of Hextall quotes from Meltzer:

@billmeltzer
Hextall: "Some people talk about small puck movers... but if you look at the best defensemen in the league, they’re not small puck movers."

@billmeltzer
Hextall: "We’ve got to be careful about getting too small. Look at some of the series out West and Boston – it’s not a small man’s game."
Who's small on the defense? Ghost won't be huge, but he's got elite skating. Hagg and Morin are both pretty big guys, Morin especially.

Krug seems to be doing alright for Boston, leading the team in points in the playoffs.

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