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St. John's Ice Caps 2013 - 14 Season - Part IV

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08-14-2014, 07:35 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by Canadienjet View Post
The D will be okay,the offense will be bad and the goaltending is beyond scary..
Oh yeah, that's my worries as well. The D looks great. The offense is ECHL calibre. Why we are sitting on our hands allowing Blair Riley to be a constent top 9 forward is beyond me. If Jussi Olk is our starting goalie. I'll be watching the games from home

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08-14-2014, 07:38 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Newfy IceCapd View Post
Oh yeah, that's my worries as well. The D looks great. The offense is ECHL calibre. Why we are sitting on our hands allowing Blair Riley to be a constent top 9 forward is beyond me. If Jussi Olk is our starting goalie. I'll be watching the games from home
Hellesaviour will probably be the starter, so I wouldn't worry about that. Hopefully he can transition his game - best numbers since Miller in the NCAA, so we should have a lot of hope that he can.

Kosmo seems like a guy that should be able to make an impact at the pro level, Lipon hopefully continues his good progress, and I'm sure there will be more moves before the season starts. Part of draft and develop has to be to ensure they develop in a good environment.

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08-14-2014, 07:39 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Newfy IceCapd View Post
Oh yeah, that's my worries as well. The D looks great. The offense is ECHL calibre. Why we are sitting on our hands allowing Blair Riley to be a constent top 9 forward is beyond me. If Jussi Olk is our starting goalie. I'll be watching the games from home
Considering it's the Jets last year here, I can't say I'm surprised they didn't bother getting players.The goaltending is my main concern..

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08-14-2014, 07:41 PM
  #579
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The D will be okay,the offense will be bad and the goaltending is beyond scary..
scarery good and you get kossy & olsen both upgrades on what you lost on forwards, Lowry should improve a lot this yr.

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08-14-2014, 07:44 PM
  #580
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scarery good and you get kossy & olsen both upgrades on what you lost on forwards, Lowry should improve a lot this yr.
Two rookies who have not played a game in the pro's to make up for what we lost.

We lost Gordon,Mouillerat,Samson.Three of our top scorers I HIGHLY doubt they will be our leaders in scoring.Lowry maybe..Olsen will likely be 13th forward.

At the this point we will be in the basement of the conference...

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08-14-2014, 07:51 PM
  #581
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Two rookies who have not played a game in the pro's to make up for what we lost.

We lost Gordon,Mouillerat,Samson.Three of our top scorers I HIGHLY doubt they will be our leaders in scoring.Lowry maybe..Olsen will likely be 13th forward.

At the this point we will be in the basement of the conference...
One of whom just graduated from college with the highest career sv% in history.

Yes, he's a rookie. You also don't find a guy outside of pro hockey who has better stats over the past two years than Hellebuyck does.

Sure, goalies are voodoo and what not. But if you have to get a goalie who hasn't played in the pro's, shouldn't you be happy that you get one who is the best?

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08-14-2014, 07:53 PM
  #582
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One of whom just graduated from college with the highest career sv% in history.

Yes, he's a rookie. You also don't find a guy outside of pro hockey who has better stats over the past two years than Hellebuyck does.

Sure, goalies are voodoo and what not. But if you have to get a goalie who hasn't played in the pro's, shouldn't you be happy that you get one who is the best?
Meant the forwards more so then him.The upside is there but I hate having Olkinoura as a fallback option if he struggles.

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08-14-2014, 08:12 PM
  #583
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Meant the forwards more so then him.The upside is there but I hate having Olkinoura as a fallback option if he struggles.
Jets also have NHL vets on 2 ways and I don't think they are done.

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08-14-2014, 09:18 PM
  #584
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I wouldn't be too worried. Looking at the numbers, they don't have enough players so they will get some guys.

I made this to help out:



My guess is we see about two more forward signings and one goalie, specifically for the AHL squad.


Last edited by garret9: 08-14-2014 at 09:44 PM.
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08-15-2014, 04:31 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I wouldn't be too worried. Looking at the numbers, they don't have enough players so they will get some guys.

I made this to help out:



My guess is we see about two more forward signings and one goalie, specifically for the AHL squad.
Wow, have I forgot about so many of our prospects till I read your depth chart.

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08-16-2014, 11:08 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I wouldn't be too worried. Looking at the numbers, they don't have enough players so they will get some guys.

I made this to help out:



My guess is we see about two more forward signings and one goalie, specifically for the AHL squad.
Nice chart, that lays it out well.

I think the biggest lost for the Caps will be O'Dell, there is nobody on deck who can replace him in the organization. Would be nice to see a kid like Copp get a contract out of training camp and start on the Rock, but that seems unlikely. Having a quality centre to play with Kosmachuk would be a boon. Jaffray-Lowry-Lipon could be a good 2nd line in St. John's.

You also expect that with 15 forwards listed on the big club's depth chart, and 8 d, that somebody is going to be demoted, and be a swingman between the Rock and a hard place to make. I would say that Halischuk is the most likely to weave through the waiver wire...

Having a team full of high end AHL talent is usually a sign of a lack of organizational depth...and can impede development, as the Chicago Wolves were quite often guilty of doing...As we proceed toward the Thunder Bay Moose, I look forward to having a youthful, and energetic club, working towards the next level. This is probably the last year for a handful of players, such as Klingberg, Cormier and Albert to make it to the show with the Jets, before ceding to players coming up the ranks.

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08-16-2014, 11:29 AM
  #587
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Would be nice to see a kid like Copp get a contract out of training camp and start on the Rock
NCAA prospects don't attend training camp or the rookie tourney. They are already attending classes.

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08-16-2014, 11:30 AM
  #588
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Nice chart, that lays it out well.

I think the biggest lost for the Caps will be O'Dell, there is nobody on deck who can replace him in the organization. Would be nice to see a kid like Copp get a contract out of training camp and start on the Rock, but that seems unlikely. Having a quality centre to play with Kosmachuk would be a boon. Jaffray-Lowry-Lipon could be a good 2nd line in St. John's.

You also expect that with 15 forwards listed on the big club's depth chart, and 8 d, that somebody is going to be demoted, and be a swingman between the Rock and a hard place to make. I would say that Halischuk is the most likely to weave through the waiver wire...

Having a team full of high end AHL talent is usually a sign of a lack of organizational depth...and can impede development, as the Chicago Wolves were quite often guilty of doing...As we proceed toward the Thunder Bay Moose, I look forward to having a youthful, and energetic club, working towards the next level. This is probably the last year for a handful of players, such as Klingberg, Cormier and Albert to make it to the show with the Jets, before ceding to players coming up the ranks.
In 2015/16, we will likely see Petan, Copp, Comrie and Lodge spend time in AHL, maybe Poolman, to go along with Lipon, Lowry, Kossy and Olsen. Will provide a bit of a litmus test for Chevy's non-1st rd drafted prospects. Looking forward to seeing how they perform.

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08-16-2014, 01:49 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
In 2015/16, we will likely see Petan, Copp, Comrie and Lodge spend time in AHL, maybe Poolman, to go along with Lipon, Lowry, Kossy and Olsen. Will provide a bit of a litmus test for Chevy's non-1st rd drafted prospects. Looking forward to seeing how they perform.
DeLeo and Kostalek will be stepping towards the AHL next year too.

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08-16-2014, 09:32 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
In 2015/16, we will likely see Petan, Copp, Comrie and Lodge spend time in AHL, maybe Poolman, to go along with Lipon, Lowry, Kossy and Olsen. Will provide a bit of a litmus test for Chevy's non-1st rd drafted prospects. Looking forward to seeing how they perform.
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DeLeo and Kostalek will be stepping towards the AHL next year too.
I'm excited thinking about having so many of our prospects in the AHL in the coming years.

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08-17-2014, 03:50 AM
  #591
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I highly doubt Poolman does one season only in the NCAA. Looking at comparables he'll most likely be 3-4 seasons in a row.

Petan, Comrie, Lodge, De Leo, and Kostalek will be graduating from the CHL after this year.

For NCAA, so will Harstad, Stoykewych, Serville, and Lane, but they are unlikely going to get an ELC. Copp is a maybe for leaving next year, but my guess is that he takes all 4 seasons. Poolman, Franklin, Ustaski, Glover will unlikely be leaving after their freshman season. The goalies will probably take all eligible NCAA seasons.

For Europe, if Karlstrom has a strong SHL season he may come over but I think he'll be 2 seasons, if ever. We all know about Butmistrov. Kulda is likely gone from us. Telegin and Kraskovsky are long term maybes.


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08-17-2014, 01:55 PM
  #592
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I highly doubt Poolman does one season only in the NCAA. Looking at comparables he'll most likely be 3-4 seasons in a row.

Petan, Comrie, Lodge, De Leo, and Kostalek will be graduating from the CHL after this year.

For NCAA, so will Harstad, Stoykewych, Serville, and Lane, but they are unlikely going to get an ELC. Copp is a maybe for leaving next year, but my guess is that he takes all 4 seasons. Poolman, Franklin, Ustaski, Glover will unlikely be leaving after their freshman season. The goalies will probably take all eligible NCAA seasons.

For Europe, if Karlstrom has a strong SHL season he may come over but I think he'll be 2 seasons, if ever. We all know about Butmistrov. Kulda is likely gone from us. Telegin and Kraskovsky are long term maybes.
I always worry about NCAA players taking the full 4 years as Copp says he wants to. The year he graduates, he becomes a UFA that August and we lose him. Chevy has to convice him to leave early and play in the AHL to further develop. I'm sure his ambition isn't to play there at all whereas some other team may agree to put him on the Show right away. I'm glad Helley realized he needed to take the next step and play minor pro before landing in the NHL. Copp may not feel that way.

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08-17-2014, 02:26 PM
  #593
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I highly doubt Poolman does one season only in the NCAA. Looking at comparables he'll most likely be 3-4 seasons in a row.

Petan, Comrie, Lodge, De Leo, and Kostalek will be graduating from the CHL after this year.

For NCAA, so will Harstad, Stoykewych, Serville, and Lane, but they are unlikely going to get an ELC. Copp is a maybe for leaving next year, but my guess is that he takes all 4 seasons. Poolman, Franklin, Ustaski, Glover will unlikely be leaving after their freshman season. The goalies will probably take all eligible NCAA seasons.

For Europe, if Karlstrom has a strong SHL season he may come over but I think he'll be 2 seasons, if ever. We all know about Butmistrov. Kulda is likely gone from us. Telegin and Kraskovsky are long term maybes.
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I always worry about NCAA players taking the full 4 years as Copp says he wants to. The year he graduates, he becomes a UFA that August and we lose him. Chevy has to convice him to leave early and play in the AHL to further develop. I'm sure his ambition isn't to play there at all whereas some other team may agree to put him on the Show right away. I'm glad Helley realized he needed to take the next step and play minor pro before landing in the NHL. Copp may not feel that way.
I have the same fear for NCAA players. I think signing them after their 2nd year is probably optimal most times but never later than their 3rd. After their 4th they need only wait from April to mid August to be free to pick their own destination and bargain for a hefty bonus. Why would they ever do anything else?

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08-17-2014, 06:13 PM
  #594
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I have the same fear for NCAA players. I think signing them after their 2nd year is probably optimal most times but never later than their 3rd. After their 4th they need only wait from April to mid August to be free to pick their own destination and bargain for a hefty bonus. Why would they ever do anything else?
Signing in April gets a year off their ELC. That can be huge.

Not too mention almost all college players are not NHL ready. There's very few that bypass AHL. So really the new organization is not offering much new, compared to the organization that drafted you, has been in contact with you, has been trying to help develop you for the past 4 years and you know whats you in a role down the line.

And in reality if you are talking about leaving CHL players have the EXACT SAME CHOICE. They can refuse to sign in their two year window. They MAY get re-drafted, but then again it's still the 4 year window from original draft to UFA. No big deal if all they wanted was 4 years to UFA status.

Not too mention bonuses are performance based. And are limited. There is simply no team that could offer more than the drafting team can. Could be that the drafting team was unwilling to offer more, but that's different that unable.

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08-17-2014, 06:58 PM
  #595
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Signing in April gets a year off their ELC. That can be huge.
I was not aware of that. I thought they no longer had any advantage beyond the relationship that has been established.

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Not too mention almost all college players are not NHL ready. There's very few that bypass AHL. So really the new organization is not offering much new, compared to the organization that drafted you, has been in contact with you, has been trying to help develop you for the past 4 years and you know whats you in a role down the line.


And in reality if you are talking about leaving CHL players have the EXACT SAME CHOICE. They can refuse to sign in their two year window. They MAY get re-drafted, but then again it's still the 4 year window from original draft to UFA. No big deal if all they wanted was 4 years to UFA status.

Not too mention bonuses are performance based. And are limited. There is simply no team that could offer more than the drafting team can. Could be that the drafting team was unwilling to offer more, but that's different that unable.
Correct me if I am wrong but my impression is that a typical, highly rated NCAA player turns pro after 2 yrs. That would be equivalent to a CHL player completing his junior eligibility. At that time the best make the NHL, the rest go to the AHL along with CHL players of the same draft class. I'm not talking about those players or even those who sign a year later. Those have chosen to start the paycheques coming. I'm only looking at the situation once they have already completed their 4th year. The team that drafted them has the advantage of 4 years of contact and they are free to offer a bonus as well. Surely it must be attractive to players to do what Hayes is doing. Encourage teams to bid for their services with a max ELC and bonuses. I don't know what limitations there are on the bonuses. I know there is a max amount but what kind of limitations are on the conditions that would trigger the bonuses I have no idea. It is not the ability of one team to offer more than another that would have an effect since that is not the case. It is the competitive bidding that could make a substantial difference in the contract even if it ends up being the drafting team.

The other factor is choosing which team to play for. The original drafting team can offer all the same inducements as any other team but if the player wants to go somewhere else he can.

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08-17-2014, 07:20 PM
  #596
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In 2015/16, we will likely see Petan, Copp, Comrie and Lodge spend time in AHL, maybe Poolman, to go along with Lipon, Lowry, Kossy and Olsen. Will provide a bit of a litmus test for Chevy's non-1st rd drafted prospects. Looking forward to seeing how they perform.
I know at least 100,000 people who wont see them #toosoon #buzzkill

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08-17-2014, 10:49 PM
  #597
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I always worry about NCAA players taking the full 4 years as Copp says he wants to. The year he graduates, he becomes a UFA that August and we lose him. Chevy has to convice him to leave early and play in the AHL to further develop. I'm sure his ambition isn't to play there at all whereas some other team may agree to put him on the Show right away. I'm glad Helley realized he needed to take the next step and play minor pro before landing in the NHL. Copp may not feel that way.
One potential advantage for the Jets is that Copp is best buddies with Trouba. That might sway him in the Jets direction, if it ever gets to that.

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08-18-2014, 10:05 PM
  #598
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Signing in April gets a year off their ELC. That can be huge.

Not too mention almost all college players are not NHL ready. There's very few that bypass AHL. So really the new organization is not offering much new, compared to the organization that drafted you, has been in contact with you, has been trying to help develop you for the past 4 years and you know whats you in a role down the line.

And in reality if you are talking about leaving CHL players have the EXACT SAME CHOICE. They can refuse to sign in their two year window. They MAY get re-drafted, but then again it's still the 4 year window from original draft to UFA. No big deal if all they wanted was 4 years to UFA status.

Not too mention bonuses are performance based. And are limited. There is simply no team that could offer more than the drafting team can. Could be that the drafting team was unwilling to offer more, but that's different that unable.
Question Holden, do you have any interest in the Jets going after Kevin Hayes?

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08-19-2014, 05:58 PM
  #599
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Question Holden, do you have any interest in the Jets going after Kevin Hayes?
I think all remaining 29 teams have an interest. It's pretty clear he has his choices and that will be that. Plus, he seems like a guy a team would have issues with

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08-19-2014, 08:34 PM
  #600
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I think all remaining 29 teams have an interest. It's pretty clear he has his choices and that will be that. Plus, he seems like a guy a team would have issues with
Thanks, I read after I posted this that he had narrowed his list to 5 or 6 teams.

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