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08-26-2005, 01:27 PM
  #1
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Ponikarovsky Update

Quote:
PONI'S PREDICAMENT

While restricted free agent Alexei Ponikarovsky remains unsigned, general manager John Ferguson said the young winger remains in the Leafs' plans for 2005-06.

"Nothing is done at this point," Ferguson said. "But we are anticipating he will be part of our club."
http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Hoc...88853-sun.html

Right at the bottom. This is good to know.

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08-26-2005, 03:01 PM
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He is Not Signed

PONI'S PREDICAMENT

While restricted free agent Alexei Ponikarovsky remains unsigned, general manager John Ferguson said the young winger remains in the Leafs' plans for 2005-06.

"Nothing is done at this point," Ferguson said. "But we are anticipating he will be part of our club."

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08-26-2005, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
"Nothing is done at this point," Ferguson said. "But we are anticipating he will be part of our club."
Glad to hear him say that, as I was beginning to get a touch worried.

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08-26-2005, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
Glad to hear him say that, as I was beginning to get a touch worried.
I'm not, if he doesn't come in at a decent price, which wouldn't be much above league minimum, than he can stay home, and we can watch Steen or Wellwood get his ice time, which I would rather see anyway. I hear all that he's fighting for is a one way contract, is that true?

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08-27-2005, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiedaeagle20
I'm not, if he doesn't come in at a decent price, which wouldn't be much above league minimum, than he can stay home, and we can watch Steen or Wellwood get his ice time, which I would rather see anyway. I hear all that he's fighting for is a one way contract, is that true?
I don't think it should be any other way. Ponikarovsky has earned a spot on the 3rd line. He is an NHL player now. Maybe playing with Nieuwendyk just boosted his play a bit, but I'm sure he can at least duplicate, if not improve what he did last season.

He's a solid player.

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08-27-2005, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiedaeagle20
I hear all that he's fighting for is a one way contract, is that true?
So the rumours would indicate.
I find that dubious however. We don't exactly have enough players signed of NHL or close to NHL caliber that we cuould easily afford to let Ponikarovsky play in the AHL, so I'm guessing money has something to do with it as well.

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08-27-2005, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scugs
Maybe playing with Nieuwendyk just boosted his play a bit, but I'm sure he can at least duplicate, if not improve what he did last season.

He's a solid player.

I'm expecting a similar season as last, he's had an additional year to further in development between now and then, and he'll probably be forced into playing a slightly greater role then before but I feel Nieuwendyk had a substantial impact on our younger players perhaps no one more so then Poni so I'll say it evens out.
Either way, I'm comfortable seeing him on our 3rd line.... worst case scenario he should at least do decently as a 4th liner, and I'd be surprised if that's all he becomes.

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08-27-2005, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
So the rumours would indicate.
I find that dubious however. We don't exactly have enough players signed of NHL or close to NHL caliber that we cuould easily afford to let Ponikarovsky play in the AHL, so I'm guessing money has something to do with it as well.
I agree 100%.... I think money has a hell of alot to do with it....

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08-27-2005, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey24
I agree 100%.... I think money has a hell of alot to do with it....

For sure....I really don't think he has to worry about making the big club.....I really hope he get signed soon, because I like this kid alot and enjoy watching him.

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08-27-2005, 12:29 PM
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I have no idea what Poni is seeking but I hope it is reasonable so that through negotiation he could be brought on without a holdout. That is in nobody's interest.

He certainly deserves a one-way, and at more than the minimum.

Anyone know what was offered?

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08-27-2005, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
I have no idea what Poni is seeking but I hope it is reasonable so that through negotiation he could be brought on without a holdout. That is in nobody's interest.

He certainly deserves a one-way, and at more than the minimum.

Anyone know what was offered?
All negotiations are being done behind closed doors. Even I don't have a key to that door. But I could make something up if you like :-) And then I can claim it was on Sportsnet for 6 minutes (after 5 minutes is too short. 6 minutes is better.)

But seriously my educated GUESS is that the dispute is over money AND one way Vs two way. On the money issue Ponikarvsky is less productive then Antropov and in a cap world should be paid less. Antropov is getting 1.007 million so I bet Ferguson is offering something between the 600 k and 800 range. I would guess that Ponik wants a million.

As for the one way Vs two way dispute I can't say I agree with all the posters on here regarding the fact he deserves a one way. Flexibility is the key here and I am sure Ferguson wasn't there to be maximum flexibility of who makes the roster during camp. Ferguson has previously stated he likes healthy competition for positions and every time he gives a player a one way that's one less spot open for a guy like Colaiacovo or Steen or Williams to make the lineup. Besides for all the good Ponikarvsky has done there are games where he just looks atrocious. He isn't consistent and even though he made the team last time they played that was TWO seasons ago because of the lockout. So this isn't you usual training camp. There will be a lot more Marlies that can break the Leafs lineup then in a normal year and there needs to be sufficient two way contracts to make that a possibility. Is Ponikarvsky getting screwed here? Yes. But when one is the GM of a team one sometimes needs to worry about the team and sacrifice a player here or there.

My guess is that Ponik will sign a two way contract for less than 1 million. Then we shall see how bad he wants the job. I think he will play a hell of a lot better and more consistent each night on a two-way knowing if he screws up he is gone.

Oh and let's not forget Roman Kukumberg. He was drafted in 2004, is 25 years old, can play either wing and when they drafted him they expected him to step into the NHL right away. It's been two years and he signed a one year contract on August 12th of this year. He might crack the lineup too.


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08-27-2005, 01:47 PM
  #12
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More info. This was reported today in the Sun.

Quote:
Meanwhile, Ferguson and agent Rick Curran continue their attempts to hammer out a deal for restricted free-agent winger Alexei Ponikarovsky.
Curran said yesterday that his client has no intentions of playing in Europe.
"He wants to play in Toronto and they are interested in him," Curran said. "We just haven't found a common number that both sides can live with."
Full article here
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2005/08/27/1190599-sun.html


Last edited by Waterboy73806498: 08-27-2005 at 04:01 PM.
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08-27-2005, 02:01 PM
  #13
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Why worry he's restricted.

I like Phoni but in todays nhl,not many if any would pay him 1 million.We own his rights and i have looked at the ufa list and there are players out there who could replace him for 1 million.He is a 20 goal max 3rd liner who doesnt fight.Antropov is a potential 30 goal lw who can play center and has produced more in the nhl.If antropov get 1 million poni is worth 600k tops based on 1 decent season in a new nhl where you dont get just get paid unless you have proved yourself.Phoni hasnt proven anything yet,he should sign a one year then play his best and go for the money next year when the leafs have it.

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08-27-2005, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrylsittler27
I like Phoni but in todays nhl,not many if any would pay him 1 million.We own his rights and i have looked at the ufa list and there are players out there who could replace him for 1 million.He is a 20 goal max 3rd liner who doesnt fight.Antropov is a potential 30 goal lw who can play center and has produced more in the nhl.If antropov get 1 million poni is worth 600k tops based on 1 decent season in a new nhl where you dont get just get paid unless you have proved yourself.Phoni hasnt proven anything yet,he should sign a one year then play his best and go for the money next year when the leafs have it.
well said

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08-27-2005, 03:59 PM
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No intentions on playing in Europe?

sweet! come on guys hammer out the deal!

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08-27-2005, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrylsittler27
.If antropov get 1 million poni is worth 600k tops based on 1 decent season in a new nhl where you dont get just get paid unless you have proved yourself.Phoni hasnt proven anything yet,he should sign a one year then play his best and go for the money next year when the leafs have it.
He deserves a one-way deal.

He should play in Europe if he is not offered a one way.

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08-27-2005, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
He deserves a one-way deal.

He should play in Europe if he is not offered a one way.

I quite agree, given that Domi and clod Belak were given one-ways and they have far less to offer the team than Poni appears to be capable of.

And I would think 600-800K is a reasonable range. If he continues to progress he may well shoot for $1M next year.

Fergy set some horrible expectations when he paid Belak that much for essentially whaling away at people when he isn't watching from the press box.

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08-27-2005, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
I quite agree, given that Domi and clod Belak were given one-ways and they have far less to offer the team than Poni appears to be capable of.

And I would think 600-800K is a reasonable range. If he continues to progress he may well shoot for $1M next year.

Fergy set some horrible expectations when he paid Belak that much for essentially whaling away at people when he isn't watching from the press box.
Every team needs a fighter/enforcer otherwise do you want Sundin having to fight someone if an opposing player takes a cheep shot at him? Now do they need both Domi and Belak? Don't know. And the answer is irrelevant to Ponikarvsky.

Ponikarvsky is in a different category than Domi and Belak and his agent would be fighting a losing battle to compare his desired salary to what those two are making. Ponikarvsky compares to an Antropov who is barely making more than 1 million. Therefore Ponik should make less than that. Antropov is better.

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08-27-2005, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy73806498
Every team needs a fighter/enforcer otherwise do you want Sundin having to fight someone if an opposing player takes a cheep shot at him? Now do they need both Domi and Belak? Don't know. And the answer is irrelevant to Ponikarvsky.

Ponikarvsky is in a different category than Domi and Belak and his agent would be fighting a losing battle to compare his desired salary to what those two are making. Ponikarvsky compares to an Antropov who is barely making more than 1 million. Therefore Ponik should make less than that. Antropov is better.

Sure, we may need a goon but does it need to be a goon like clod Belak who is making far too much for someone who can't do anything else. Or Domi, who I generally like, who can do a few more things but is still overpaid. For a fighter we needn't pay more than $500K.

Of course Poni is in a different category - he seems to be able to skate some and may well be, this year, a productive 3/4 liner with 30-40 points/year.

He has not yet earned Cantropov's paycheque, I never said he has. Cantro is at $1M and some loonies - I see Poni at $600-800 which is more than a goon, except that the Leafs are overpaying their goons. Is that Poni's fault? It would be an irresponsible agent who would seek less money than that thrown at clod Belak.

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08-27-2005, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
Sure, we may need a goon but does it need to be a goon like clod Belak who is making far too much for someone who can't do anything else. Or Domi, who I generally like, who can do a few more things but is still overpaid. For a fighter we needn't pay more than $500K.

Of course Poni is in a different category - he seems to be able to skate some and may well be, this year, a productive 3/4 liner with 30-40 points/year.

He has not yet earned Cantropov's paycheque, I never said he has. Cantro is at $1M and some loonies - I see Poni at $600-800 which is more than a goon, except that the Leafs are overpaying their goons. Is that Poni's fault? It would be an irresponsible agent who would seek less money than that thrown at clod Belak.
I see poni at 600-800 K as well. So the only thing holding this up is either that his agent wants 1 million (or 900k) or that its a two way vs one way deal. I cant imagine they spend this long just over money. But Ferguson has the upper hand here. No other team is going to offer Poni a contract so eventually he will have to take what the Leafs offer.

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08-27-2005, 06:54 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy73806498
I see poni at 600-800 K as well. So the only thing holding this up is either that his agent wants 1 million (or 900k) or that its a two way vs one way deal. I cant imagine they spend this long just over money. But Ferguson has the upper hand here. No other team is going to offer Poni a contract so eventually he will have to take what the Leafs offer.

A two-way contract is not 600-800K. It is 600-800K OR c. 75-100K. Pretty good for a retired prof or an algebra teacher but below market value for a player who has as many games under his belt as Poni (116 plus 23 playoffs, or two pretty full seasons) and who showed the progress he did and who played every playoff game as a regular "last" year.

An argument could be anticipated that he needn't worry about the lower rate if he continued to play nhl calibre hockey, especially on a team short of wingers and that if he played hard he wouldn't see a Marlie shirt. But there are other factors in determining a demotion including coach bias, general team economics, and a GM who doesn't want one of his own signings to look bad (remember how long they stayed with that turkey Khyrstych?) that could scapegoat a player in his position and could result in, through no fault of his own, a demotion.

I sure don't blame Poni for trying to avoid that. He may be forced into such a situation, unless he heads for Europe, but I still say that paying clod Belak what they did on a one-way has set up this confrontation.

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08-27-2005, 07:12 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
A two-way contract is not 600-800K. It is 600-800K OR c. 75-100K. Pretty good for a retired prof or an algebra teacher but below market value for a player who has as many games under his belt as Poni (116 plus 23 playoffs, or two pretty full seasons) and who showed the progress he did and who played every playoff game as a regular "last" year.
Ouch :-) We can make more than 75k belive it or not. 100? No that would be definately pushing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Recidivist
An argument could be anticipated that he needn't worry about the lower rate if he continued to play nhl calibre hockey, especially on a team short of wingers and that if he played hard he wouldn't see a Marlie shirt. But there are other factors in determining a demotion including coach bias, general team economics, and a GM who doesn't want one of his own signings to look bad (remember how long they stayed with that turkey Khyrstych?) that could scapegoat a player in his position and could result in, through no fault of his own, a demotion.

I sure don't blame Poni for trying to avoid that. He may be forced into such a situation, unless he heads for Europe, but I still say that paying clod Belak what they did on a one-way has set up this confrontation.
Your argument is sound; however, Belak was a RFA if I am not mistaken so they had to qualify him at a certain amount. That amount probably was 24% rollback of whatever he made the previous season. I can't find a link to what he made last time they played. Also Belak couldn't be offered a two-way contract. Well in theory he could but once a player is around for as long as he has you either give them a one-way or let them go. By the way I am NOT arguing in favor of them signing Belak. Just that I don't think what they gave him gives Poni's agent any leverage at all in negotiating his clients contract.

And you are 100% correct that Poni's agent should fight like hell to avoid a two-way. And that's why this thing has been taking so long. But even Stajan has a two-way. Or at least it was quoted in the paper the other day that he (Stajan) said he needed to have a good camp to ensure he made the team. Now if he had a one-way he wouldn't have to worry would he?

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08-27-2005, 08:20 PM
  #23
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One way..? GIVE IT TO HIM!

Poni is a great player, hard worker, and he isn't asking for too much. He's a nice guy, and would love to have three of him filling our third or fourth line.

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