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Old
05-10-2014, 06:18 PM
  #101
DJ EarWax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
I don`t have a ****ing eidetic memory, I`m not going to pour through weather charts to point out what anybody who lives here should know.

With windchill, a typical winter day is -20 or worse. Average temps in Edmonton for December, January and February are -15C to -17C WITHOUT the wind chill, and you can usually count on a cold snap pushing us into the -30 to -40 range.

Last year:
http://weatherspark.com/history/2812...Alberta-Canada

Average:
http://weatherspark.com/averages/281...Alberta-Canada
windchill != temperature
Feels like (as in windchill) is also a relative term. I was born in 79 and I only remember it being -40 once in my entire life, and that was overnight a few years ago. You're embellishing and making it seem colder here than it is. Please, find me evidence of -40 for weeks. Back your statement. Even in the links you've provided, the lowest temp was Dec 7 @-23F and it looks like it lasted 1 day. The lowest average temps in January only show ~-5F. Where's -40?

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Old
05-10-2014, 06:41 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by rickyrunfar View Post
Detroit attracts players and I wouldn't say it's a nicer place to live than Edmonton. Build a winner and I'm sure guys will stay just like in the eighties. Pronger and his princess are the exception not the norm.

If you build it, they will come
Well, there is the catch-22, how do you build a winner if nobody is willing to play there?
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Originally Posted by DJ EarWax View Post

Nice embellishment. It's never -40 for months on end, it's not even -20 for months on end. I believe the travel schedule is equally as terrible for the Canucks and Flames, plus with the new scheduling, it takes away a lot of advantage to the eastern conference. All Canadian and even some American markets are fish bowls. You think Crosby can walk around Pittsburgh without being noticed or harassed? This teams problems start and end with management, It has never had good to great management, even in the "glory days".
Ok man, then tell me, why is it that every time we hear of a player that is on the trade block and has a NMC or NTC for example, why is it that pretty much every Canadian team is on the list? And those players always use that clause to deny a trade to Canada? Specifically Edmonton, although it really applies to all the Canadian teams. But we always hear that Edmonton is at the top of those lists.

Ok, maybe its not -40 for months on end, but I guarantee it feels like it goes on forever (I live in the same climate and I don't have a problem living in winter weather, but even I get tired of it after 5 to 6 months of winter)...sooner or later, people are going to have to realize that nobody wants to play there when they can just as easily play somewhere where there is nice weather, still get paid big money AND have anonymity walking down the street, and little to no pressure from fans or media. Do you really think its a coincidence that the best teams in the west are all in Cali?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
I mean... yes, they were very intentional (at least beyond the 09/10 season, where half our team was injured in November and it was clear we were going to finish at the bottom for the first time).

They cleared holes for younger players with the balls-out admission that the team was not going to win very often. Were on the radio everyday declaring that rebuilding through the draft was the way to go.



I don't know if we'll ever get out of it, but it's worth saying: This coming draft is only the fourth since the rebuild began.



Not a fantastic draft to begin with, but yeah, a couple botched first rounders. Not sure how this is the smoking gun you're presenting it as.



Until Winnipeg came back into the league, we were easily the coldest and most isolated City in the NHL. It is -40 for weeks, it IS -20 for months on end, it IS a hard city to travel from with lots of empty space on all sides. You point out that Calgary is not much better - Calgary is having or is about to have the same issues we've had.

The fishbowl thing... I think it can get on their nerves. Some guys (like Nathan Horton) will avoid cities like that, but I don't think it's the biggest thing in the world. I'll say this: I think Crosby will get noticed anywhere he is, but Pascal Dupuis will be able to slip under the radar. I don't think there's an Oiler that can do the same here.
Its actually the 5th draft (Hall, Nuge, Yak, Nurse, 2014 draft), but that's just splitting hairs...and agreed about Winnipeg, them coming back into the league made us the 2nd least desirable place to play, which I suppose is a moral victory, kind of like a backhanded compliment. And thanks for backing me up on the weather thing, it is a real thing, although I suppose I exaggerated a bit when I said its months on end, what I meant was that it probably just feels like that.

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05-10-2014, 06:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by redgrant View Post
Look I'll be the first to say the oilers suck and have for years. But honestly what canadian team would you trade places with the last since after the holdout in 05?

Oilers have still been the only canadian team that has come close to winning a cup in the last 10 years.
I'd trade with the Habs.

Canucks went to game 7.

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05-10-2014, 06:59 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by DJ EarWax View Post
windchill != temperature
Yeah, no. Wind chill is not relative, it's math for what the weather feels like to a human being. Which, you know, is 100% of the concern of people who prefer warmer climates (read: Millionaire hockey players).

If you want to sit there and disqualify that because its not a raw -40, which could lead to wind chill tempretures of -60 or worse (which rarely happens on earth), you go ahead.

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05-10-2014, 07:19 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by TimeForAnOilChange View Post
Well, there is the catch-22, how do you build a winner if nobody is willing to play there?


Ok man, then tell me, why is it that every time we hear of a player that is on the trade block and has a NMC or NTC for example, why is it that pretty much every Canadian team is on the list? And those players always use that clause to deny a trade to Canada? Specifically Edmonton, although it really applies to all the Canadian teams. But we always hear that Edmonton is at the top of those lists.

Ok, maybe its not -40 for months on end, but I guarantee it feels like it goes on forever (I live in the same climate and I don't have a problem living in winter weather, but even I get tired of it after 5 to 6 months of winter)...sooner or later, people are going to have to realize that nobody wants to play there when they can just as easily play somewhere where there is nice weather, still get paid big money AND have anonymity walking down the street, and little to no pressure from fans or media. Do you really think its a coincidence that the best teams in the west are all in Cali?




Its actually the 5th draft (Hall, Nuge, Yak, Nurse, 2014 draft), but that's just splitting hairs...and agreed about Winnipeg, them coming back into the league made us the 2nd least desirable place to play, which I suppose is a moral victory, kind of like a backhanded compliment. And thanks for backing me up on the weather thing, it is a real thing, although I suppose I exaggerated a bit when I said its months on end, what I meant was that it probably just feels like that.
Yes, there's a positive:

In the last 3 years, Edmonton has moved from least desirable place to play to 2nd least desirable and the Oilers have improved from 15th in the Western Conference to 14th.

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05-10-2014, 07:39 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
This argument bugs the hell out of me.
Can you please list all these 'coveted' UFAs Detroit has landed in the last 5 years?
What? Stephen '4 point' Weiss?

*Newsflash*, Hossa is the only coveted player they've landed since Steve Yzerman retired the year we beat them in the playoffs. And he was there for what, one year?
Dont kid yourself theyve landed plenty of players like Alfredsson Stuart Bertuzzi and other great role players Edmonton would love. Holland is too smart to chase bums like Clarkson and should be lauded not blamed for that.

Detroit is a prime destination for players given their management. Edmonton not so much.

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05-10-2014, 07:40 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by TimeForAnOilChange View Post
Ok man, then tell me, why is it that every time we hear of a player that is on the trade block and has a NMC or NTC for example, why is it that pretty much every Canadian team is on the list? And those players always use that clause to deny a trade to Canada? Specifically Edmonton, although it really applies to all the Canadian teams. But we always hear that Edmonton is at the top of those lists.

Ok, maybe its not -40 for months on end, but I guarantee it feels like it goes on forever (I live in the same climate and I don't have a problem living in winter weather, but even I get tired of it after 5 to 6 months of winter)...sooner or later, people are going to have to realize that nobody wants to play there when they can just as easily play somewhere where there is nice weather, still get paid big money AND have anonymity walking down the street, and little to no pressure from fans or media. Do you really think its a coincidence that the best teams in the west are all in Cali?
I'm not arguing that players don't want to play in Canada. And I would argue that Edmonton is near the top of the list due to previous performance and management more than anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Yeah, no. Wind chill is not relative, it's math for what the weather feels like to a human being. Which, you know, is 100% of the concern of people who prefer warmer climates (read: Millionaire hockey players).

If you want to sit there and disqualify that because its not a raw -40, which could lead to wind chill tempretures of -60 or worse (which rarely happens on earth), you go ahead.
Actually, wind chill is not temperature as I've stated before.
And it is relative. Especially when the model used to calculate it can be changed/manipulated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_ch...ive_approaches
I'm tired of people embellishing the temperature. It's BS and perpetuates ignorance.

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05-10-2014, 09:04 PM
  #108
UnrefinedMcCrude
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Originally Posted by Playa Hejda View Post
You know it's bad when the kool-aid drinkers are having trouble keeping track of how long the Oilers have been this awful.
We all know how long they've been awful, what's up for debate is when they actually put a plan in place and in motion to try not being awful.

Personally I think it was the December before we drafted Hall. Up to that point they were just taking blind stabs in the dark, that had no chance of success without any kind of foundation in the form of a farm system.

People lose sight of the fact that the organization needed to do more than refurbish the main club, there was an entire system to build.

We suck harder than I would have anticipated, but how much better could we be if we were still lending our prospects out to other teams' systems?

We might have been ahead of the Flames this year i everything went well, but we would have no chance whatsoever of taking a bigger step.

This all may still stay in the ditch, but until they re-organized the whole system, we didn't have even any hope of turning it around.

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05-10-2014, 09:17 PM
  #109
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I think Hextall's comment's say more about him and his team than it does about the Oilers. Anyone with a set of eyes and half a brain knows how bad the Oilers are. Why is he comparing his continually mediocre team to the Oilers when he should be comparing them to his cross state rival Penquins or Bruins or Hawks? You know, good teams that have actually won. This is a classic case of rationalizing your own failures. "Ya we haven't won anything in 4 decades but at least we're not the Oilers". Oh and since when did making the playoffs become "winning"? 16/30 teams make the playoffs. That's 53.3%, statistically you're more likely to make the playoffs than miss them.

tl;dr: Hextall sucks/Flyers suck.

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05-10-2014, 09:31 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by UnrefinedCrude View Post
We all know how long they've been awful, what's up for debate is when they actually put a plan in place and in motion to try not being awful.

Personally I think it was the December before we drafted Hall. Up to that point they were just taking blind stabs in the dark, that had no chance of success without any kind of foundation in the form of a farm system.

People lose sight of the fact that the organization needed to do more than refurbish the main club, there was an entire system to build.

We suck harder than I would have anticipated, but how much better could we be if we were still lending our prospects out to other teams' systems?

We might have been ahead of the Flames this year i everything went well, but we would have no chance whatsoever of taking a bigger step.

This all may still stay in the ditch, but until they re-organized the whole system, we didn't have even any hope of turning it around.
I think the bolded part is the most damning indictment against the management team. I agree with you that the whole system needs to be overhauled. Top to bottom.

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05-10-2014, 09:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
This argument bugs the hell out of me.
Can you please list all these 'coveted' UFAs Detroit has landed in the last 5 years?
What? Stephen '4 point' Weiss?

*Newsflash*, Hossa is the only coveted player they've landed since Steve Yzerman retired the year we beat them in the playoffs. And he was there for what, one year?
Senator's fans would say Daniel Alfredsson.

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05-10-2014, 09:50 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by UnrefinedCrude View Post
We all know how long they've been awful, what's up for debate is when they actually put a plan in place and in motion to try not being awful.

Personally I think it was the December before we drafted Hall. Up to that point they were just taking blind stabs in the dark, that had no chance of success without any kind of foundation in the form of a farm system.

People lose sight of the fact that the organization needed to do more than refurbish the main club, there was an entire system to build.

We suck harder than I would have anticipated, but how much better could we be if we were still lending our prospects out to other teams' systems?

We might have been ahead of the Flames this year i everything went well, but we would have no chance whatsoever of taking a bigger step.

This all may still stay in the ditch, but until they re-organized the whole system, we didn't have even any hope of turning it around.
What infuriates me the most about the "we had no farm team" argument was Kevin Lowe saying during the time that it was no big deal and that it wouldn't hurt prospect development when everybody knew he was full of ****. I get that this was EIG's decision but those were still Kevin Lowe's words and he should have chosen them much better. I haven't trusted a word out of his mouth since. To see him still in his position and people using that argument in defense of management really irks me.

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05-10-2014, 10:39 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
What infuriates me the most about the "we had no farm team" argument was Kevin Lowe saying during the time that it was no big deal and that it wouldn't hurt prospect development when everybody knew he was full of ****. I get that this was EIG's decision but those were still Kevin Lowe's words and he should have chosen them much better. I haven't trusted a word out of his mouth since. To see him still in his position and people using that argument in defense of management really irks me.
I view it more as an indictment that we had no system. An NHL team needs a healthy farm system, not just the AHL, but beyond. We are only in the infancy of having a system. IMO, it will be a couple more years before we can reap any real benefits from it, and that is if things go swimmingly well.

we had no chance for success without it, even if the team had drafted better under the EIG regime. people say the team rushed Gagner, but he played well enough to not go back to Jr, and when he was older and we could have sent him to the AHL, would he have improved at all by going into a system controlled by another team, and never played? Because that's what the options were. And that's pathetic, that we had no way whatsoever to develop any prospects.

It is really the one completely undeniable positive move made during the Katz era.

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05-10-2014, 11:30 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Oilking83 View Post
I think Hextall's comment's say more about him and his team than it does about the Oilers. Anyone with a set of eyes and half a brain knows how bad the Oilers are. Why is he comparing his continually mediocre team to the Oilers when he should be comparing them to his cross state rival Penquins or Bruins or Hawks? You know, good teams that have actually won. This is a classic case of rationalizing your own failures. "Ya we haven't won anything in 4 decades but at least we're not the Oilers". Oh and since when did making the playoffs become "winning"? 16/30 teams make the playoffs. That's 53.3%, statistically you're more likely to make the playoffs than miss them.

tl;dr: Hextall sucks/Flyers suck.
LOL i couldnt agree more. My mentality is either cup or go home. We do nothing in the playoffs if we make it but at least were not the Oilers is the ultimate kettle calling the pot black argument.

So if Edmonton and Philly are two students and Edmonton scores 25% on a test and Philly 45% they are feeling proud talking about how much they are better than them disregarding the honor rollers from Boston Chicago LA and Pitts?

LOL way to choose your fights...Just like that coward Hextall. Took a swipe at Kent Nilsson. Try that with Messier and we'd be talking about the late Ron Hextall.

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05-11-2014, 12:13 AM
  #115
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LOL i couldnt agree more. My mentality is either cup or go home. We do nothing in the playoffs if we make it but at least were not the Oilers is the ultimate kettle calling the pot black argument.

So if Edmonton and Philly are two students and Edmonton scores 25% on a test and Philly 45% they are feeling proud talking about how much they are better than them disregarding the honor rollers from Boston Chicago LA and Pitts?

LOL way to choose your fights...Just like that coward Hextall. Took a swipe at Kent Nilsson. Try that with Messier and we'd be talking about the late Ron Hextall.


Haha no kidding. Apparently a "winning" culture doesn't require actually winning anything anymore. I can't help but laugh when Canucks fans bring up their presidents trophy.

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05-11-2014, 12:53 AM
  #116
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What a foolish thing for a new GM to do; go to the press and start making enemies of the other GM's that he will have to trade with to find success. You can tell that Hextall is new to this job. Lowe made the same mistake by making enemies of the other GM's and eventually had to be removed. Though in Lowe's case he got promoted instead of fired.

If Hextall can't learn to keep his mouth shut I foresee a very short tenure as GM.

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05-11-2014, 03:30 AM
  #117
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Dont kid yourself theyve landed plenty of players like Alfredsson Stuart Bertuzzi and other great role players Edmonton would love. Holland is too smart to chase bums like Clarkson and should be lauded not blamed for that.

Detroit is a prime destination for players given their management. Edmonton not so much.
Are we talking coveted players or role players? Make up your mind. The Oilers don't have trouble signing role players either; Gordon, Ference, ect.

I'm not sure if Alfredsson was all that coveted to be honest. I don't even think most teams knew he was available to sign.


Last edited by Bergeron47: 05-11-2014 at 06:20 AM.
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05-11-2014, 10:00 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Gone View Post
I'd trade with the Habs.

Canucks went to game 7.
Canucks were thoroughly humiliated in game 7 with an all star goalie and a real first line centre. As we see their window of opportunity has shut for the next 20 years.

Edmonton hasnt even had their window open. Do you realize how long it took the Sedins to gel. Honestly guys like Hall Yakupov Eberle will need to be around 26-27 not 22-23 to open that window.

I know its not what people want to hear but its the reality.

Also youd trade with the Habs? They've done nothing the last 10 years. Only team that has done less is Toronto/Winnipeg in Canada.

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05-11-2014, 10:43 AM
  #119
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Canucks were thoroughly humiliated in game 7 with an all star goalie and a real first line centre. As we see their window of opportunity has shut for the next 20 years.

Edmonton hasnt even had their window open. Do you realize how long it took the Sedins to gel. Honestly guys like Hall Yakupov Eberle will need to be around 26-27 not 22-23 to open that window.

I know its not what people want to hear but its the reality.

Also youd trade with the Habs? They've done nothing the last 10 years. Only team that has done less is Toronto/Winnipeg in Canada.
And what have the Oilers done? Yet the Hab's talent depth is as good or better than the Oil.

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05-11-2014, 11:16 AM
  #120
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Attn; mods.

If the Philly moderator closed the Hextall comments thread on the main board...does that mean we won?

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05-11-2014, 11:28 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
What infuriates me the most about the "we had no farm team" argument was Kevin Lowe saying during the time that it was no big deal and that it wouldn't hurt prospect development when everybody knew he was full of ****. I get that this was EIG's decision but those were still Kevin Lowe's words and he should have chosen them much better. I haven't trusted a word out of his mouth since. To see him still in his position and people using that argument in defense of management really irks me.
If you'll recall, the EIG halted the Oilers from being moved to another city, and the lack of a farm system was a financial decision made by the group during tough economic times, when the EIG was reportedly losing money on the Oilers, year-after-year. Lowe's support for the decision was support for the EIG, whom he was working for. Would you go against your employer, if your employer was financially backing your business in tough economic times, and it was losing money annually on its investment? That was the economic reality of the time in Edmonton. People forget how hard hit Edmonton was during the recession. The EIG, at the time, was literally the only way for the Oilers to remain within the city. I'm still very thankful that they stepped forward and kept NHL hockey in Edmonton, and I fully support whatever they had to do to keep it. We were very close to losing our franchise. Ask someone from Winnipeg how that felt.

I'm not a huge fan of everything that Kevin Lowe does or has done, but I think that the arguments against him are sometimes ridiculous.

Our city has suffered through some bleak times with this team, but we never lost our franchise, and we do now have a future with a group of skilled young players that we have. MacTavish seems very capable of putting the pieces back together imo. We also now have a farm system that is functioning well and producing NHL players like Marincin, Pitlick, and Klefbom, (to name a few) who are graduating through that system. Our team will rebound, and the end product will be worth the wait.

There is way too much negativity and blame surrounding this franchise's rebuild. We are probably 2 years away from being in a very enviable franchise. This team will create some new history in a brand new arena. Wait for it. In the meantime, stop *****ing and enjoy it for what it is.

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05-11-2014, 12:54 PM
  #122
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Hate to break your bubble, Hackstall, but guess how many cups your team has?

0

Shut your piehole.


Last edited by OilerPensfan97: 05-14-2014 at 05:52 PM.
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05-11-2014, 01:53 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by OilerPensfan View Post
Hate to break your bubble, Hackstall, but guess how many cups you have?

0

Shut your piehole.
Wasn't he with LA when they won? I thought he was their assistant GM.

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05-11-2014, 02:22 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Gone View Post
And what have the Oilers done? Yet the Hab's talent depth is as good or better than the Oil.
And they still haven't seen a SCF in over 20 years. And they won't be seeing it this year anyway.

People around here set the bar far too low.

Also their coach just scratched their clutchest playoff performer.... What kind of move is that?

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05-11-2014, 04:47 PM
  #125
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Is he wrong? In any part?
He is wrong on two points. One the oilers are not trying to suck.... they are just bad. Two he said this is the easy road.... Maybe in a hockey city but if this was any weaker market there would be 0 people in the arena at this point...

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