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Luongo 'Demands Trade'

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Old
08-25-2005, 12:04 PM
  #51
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Pithy: Brief and to the Point. If you want someone to actually read it

First off the Panthers took Luongo to arbitration this was not in the old CBA so the link is irrelevant. I heard on leafs lunch that the length was restricted to one year. But of course that could be wrong.

It's not Keenans pocketbook, or else he would have been signed long ago.

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08-25-2005, 01:44 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
Pithy: Brief and to the Point. If you want someone to actually read it
Some arguments can debunked in two lines. Others need substantially longer. If one chooses not to read sound arguments simply due their length then that person's lack of attention span will cost them the knowledge provided therewith. (That wasn't an attack on you but a statement in general.)

Quote:
First off the Panthers took Luongo to arbitration this was not in the old CBA so the link is irrelevant. I heard on leafs lunch that the length was restricted to one year. But of course that could be wrong.
The link is very outdated but there was not information regarding length of arbitration contract on the Internet. I made the assumption that, that particular detail was not changed. Of course it could have been that it was not a major detail and therefore not reported.

In light of what you heard on Leafs lunch and what was reported in the press this morning it turns out it was for ONE year. But that does not change the argument of why he won't become a Leaf.

Quote:
It's not Keenans pocketbook, or else he would have been signed long ago.
"Keenan's pocketbook" was a reference to the ample cap room the panthers currently have. They simply aren't using it all because the fallout from the lockout will most likely harm Florida more than most teams. Conservatism, and waiting for the financial results after the first season under the new CBA will give Keenan and the owners the correct information they need to lock up Luongo to a long term deal. (By the way I am a huge liberal but not on this issue.)

I read your bio on the "Leaf's Roll call page". It's admirable that you are constantly looking for creative and intelligent ways to improve the Leafs roster. Since you were actually around for the last time the Maple Leafs won the cup I am sure the absence sits in your stomach all that more. But this year under the new CBA the correct stance is patience despite the 38 year of futility in Toronto.

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08-25-2005, 01:50 PM
  #53
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According to Keenan on Leafs Lunch, no GMs have contacted him. He plans on keeping Luongo.

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08-25-2005, 02:44 PM
  #54
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Keenan would have signed Luongo long ago if Cohen, the owner, was willing to spend the money.

I disagree with the patience this year, but that is because I want to win a cup and Belfour and Sundin are getting older. Others want to wait, such as yourself. If we are going to wait then we need to pursue young superstar goalies aggressively.

If GM Jr hadn't botched the Roberts Nieuwendyk negoatiations. The leafs would be the beast of the East. Easily could have fit them under the cap


Last edited by Big Mama*: 08-25-2005 at 02:50 PM.
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08-25-2005, 02:58 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
If GM Jr hadn't botched the Roberts Nieuwendyk negoatiations. The leafs would be the beast of the East. Easily could have fit them under the cap
They couldn't get it done when they were 2 years younger, did they get that much better over the last non season?

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08-25-2005, 03:13 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
Keenan would have signed Luongo long ago if Cohen, the owner, was willing to spend the money.
As previously explained (but quite possibly not read due to the lack of pithy")

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In addition the Panthers have plenty of cap room and can afford to pay Luongo any amount he desires but to do so in a non traditional hockey market that doesn't generate as much revenue as a place like Toronto would be foolish. Thus despite having more than enough cap room to give Luongo 6 or even 7 million a season Keenan feels he can get a first rate at a reduced cost and has taken him to arbitration. If Florida loses it will not be a major loss in terms of cap money for the franchise. If they win Florida makes a terrific 2 year investment. At the end of the 2 year contract look for Keenan to open his pocketbook to keep Luongo for another 4 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
I disagree with the patience this year, but that is because I want to win a cup and Belfour and Sundin are getting older.
Key phrase. "I (meaning you) want to win a cup". This year the defense and goaltending situation are more than adequate to win a cup. If you were to make suggestions on improving the winger situation it would make more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
Others want to wait, such as yourself. If we are going to wait then we need to pursue young superstar goalies aggressively.
The words "wait" and "pursue.....aggressively" are antonyms. Those who have no faith in Belfour will bear witness to their fallacy of their lack of faith this coming season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
If GM Jr hadn't botched the Roberts Nieuwendyk negoatiations. The leafs would be the beast of the East. Easily could have fit them under the cap
Past mistakes never ever are justification for making fresh new mistakes. Possibly you have heard of the phrase "two wrongs do not make a right".

By the way it was reported today that the Panthers are keeping Luongo and have no intention of trading him. In one year when the contracts of Belfour and Luongo both expire Ferguson will be able to make an intelligent decision based on the past season and the situation at hand.

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08-25-2005, 04:00 PM
  #57
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Belfour is on the hook for two years. Then there will be no goalie for the patient. Sundin will be 37 at the end of two seasons. No cup for his patience.

Losing Roberts and Nieu are mistakes if your goal is to win the cup. But according to you those two wouldn't have improved the winger situation.

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08-25-2005, 04:03 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
They couldn't get it done when they were 2 years younger, did they get that much better over the last non season?
Does that mean we should have bought out Belfour and Sundin? Rob & Nieuy would have been part of this years puzzle. Certainly better than what we have. Allison, Lindros and O'Neill would be replacing Nolan Mogilny and Reichel. The team would certainly be improved from 03-04 and be the beasts of the EAst..

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08-25-2005, 04:51 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
Belfour is on the hook for two years.
You might want to read all the way to the end before you repeat arguments that have already been defeated.

Once again incorrect. Belfour has only ONE year left on his contract. The second year is an OPTION. It may of not be picked up depending on how well Belfour plays this season. Options are what gives Ferguson flexibility and continue to make him a shrewd GM in these new CBA times.

Link to Belfour's contract details.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2005/07/05/1117777-sun.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
Then there will be no goalie for the patient.
After one year the Leafs will have plenty of good options. The overwhelming majority of Maple Leaf players have their contracts expiring at the end of 2005-2006 season. These players include McCabe (I previously mentioned that he had 2 years left but I found evidence that it is only 1 year), Kaberle, Belfour, Allison, Antropov, Khavanov, Lindros, Berg, and Wilm. I can provide links to the contract information to any of these players if you so wish. Also I believe but have no exact proof that Tellqvist, Kilger, Stajan, and Tucker will also see their contracts expire at the end of 2005-2006.

All this flexibility will allow the Leafs room to maneuver next summer to acquire a goalie if they need one. Remember it is an ASSUMPTION they will need one. Tellqvist will be 2 years older, since his inconsistent play in 2003-2004 and might be ready for a starting role. And Aubin might shine under the vastly superior defense that the Leafs have compared to what was on Pittsburgh when he was playing there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
Sundin will be 37 at the end of two seasons. No cup for his patience.
Well since its only ONE season for Belfour, Sundin will only be 35. He is 34 today. We both were born in the same year 1971. Mats birthday is February 13. A 35 year old player of Sundin's caliber is not old at all. Look at what Sakic did back in 2003-2004 at the age of 35...oh yeah 87 points. Sundin will be fine for many years to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
Losing Roberts and Nieu are mistakes if your goal is to win the cup.
Some people apparently can never forget past mistakes. In addition others chose not to read what other's post. This has been dealt with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
But according to you those two wouldn't have improved the winger situation.
Ahh the classic "put words in the other guy's mouth tactic." Doesn't work in a Forum where everything is recorded.

Quote:
Past mistakes never ever are justification for making fresh new mistakes. Possibly you have heard of the phrase "two wrongs do not make a right".
Definition of mistake from Webster's dictionary. "1 : to blunder in the choice of" Therefore they would have helped improve the team but its over. But if you think repeating your words a million times might change the past well then go for it. Let the rest of us know if you succeed. I would love to go back and change the my lotto number selections.

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08-25-2005, 11:03 PM
  #60
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A 2 mill option that goes against the cap if exercised. Then you have no goalie and 2 mill lost against the cap. In my opinion Belfour has 2 good years left. An outstanding goalie who could lead the Blue & White to the Cup. That would assure 1st ballot Hall of Fame. So I thought the option was irrelevant.

Your opinion on the goalie being available may and may not happen. My opinion is if we aren't going to seriously compete for the cup this year then we should not waste Belfour and go after the best in Luongo. The Panther's treated him shabbily. In my opinion he should have been treated comparable to Nash and Thornton. The leafs could have stepped into the void if they had imaginative managment.

Sorry I was off by a year. Sundin will only be 36 befoe the end of the 06-07 season. He has good chance at 37 to have an excellent season. This is good news for loyal leaf fans who want him to join the Pantheon of Great Maple Leaf Captains who have won the cup.

I you want to win the cup, past mistakes stay with you. Ask Kerry Fraser he didn't even see the play that cost the leafs the cup.

Your Quote "Past mistakes never ever are justification for making fresh new mistakes. Possibly you have heard of the phrase "two wrongs do not make a right".".

Since we were discussing Roberts & Nieu I assumed that your use of the above quote with the phrase "past mistakes' referred to Roberts and Nieuwyndyk botched negotiations as a good thing. I misread it because going after Luongo is a good idea not a bad idea.


Last edited by Big Mama*: 08-25-2005 at 11:11 PM.
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Old
08-25-2005, 11:32 PM
  #61
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Mother Tucker if you lived in California you would be invited over for a beer to watch a gmae. But alas you are in Florida.

The Leafs will contend for the cup this year with what they have. I think. I hope. I dream. Why hell I am a Leaf fan. Anyways by brain is fried. But tomorrow is another day.

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08-26-2005, 04:05 PM
  #62
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What could we offer?

I say luongo is worth going after.........

to some extent, can't believe JFJ wouldn't do something in this. we all know you build a team from the net out... Luongo see's like a half million shots a year in florida i'm sure he could do some good work in the T.O.

What if we made an offer like say....

Belfour Kaberle/Mccabe and a 2nd rounder in '06. Is that enough to get keenan talking?

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08-26-2005, 04:10 PM
  #63
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We should just go with Eddie this year and next and then plan on Luongo when he is (*If he is) an UFA in 2 years from now .

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08-26-2005, 04:15 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanerj
I say luongo is worth going after.........

to some extent, can't believe JFJ wouldn't do something in this. we all know you build a team from the net out... Luongo see's like a half million shots a year in florida i'm sure he could do some good work in the T.O.

What if we made an offer like say....

Belfour Kaberle/Mccabe and a 2nd rounder in '06. Is that enough to get keenan talking?
It would be stajan/belfour/3 draft picks.

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08-26-2005, 04:20 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanerj
I say luongo is worth going after.........

to some extent, can't believe JFJ wouldn't do something in this. we all know you build a team from the net out... Luongo see's like a half million shots a year in florida i'm sure he could do some good work in the T.O.

What if we made an offer like say....

Belfour Kaberle/Mccabe and a 2nd rounder in '06. Is that enough to get keenan talking?
misleading headline and duplicate thread.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=165726

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08-26-2005, 04:22 PM
  #66
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According to Keenan, Luongo isn't going anywhere any how.

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08-26-2005, 04:27 PM
  #67
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Don't know, don't care.

We have a young, future starter in Rask, no need to sell the farm just because we can get a better one.

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08-26-2005, 04:27 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydog2005
It would be stajan/belfour/3 draft picks.
Sorry, the Leafs have already spent their picks by signing every RFA on the market.

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08-26-2005, 04:35 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanerj
I say luongo is worth going after.........

to some extent, can't believe JFJ wouldn't do something in this. we all know you build a team from the net out... Luongo see's like a half million shots a year in florida i'm sure he could do some good work in the T.O.

What if we made an offer like say....

Belfour Kaberle/Mccabe and a 2nd rounder in '06. Is that enough to get keenan talking?
"Deanerj" now that the thread has been merged please read this one. You should find all the evidence of why Luongo isn't going anywhere contained right here.

If you have something NEW to add that would be great.


Last edited by Waterboy73806498: 08-26-2005 at 05:26 PM.
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08-26-2005, 10:48 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of Puppets
Don't know, don't care.

We have a young, future starter in Rask, no need to sell the farm just because we can get a better one.
Heard the same thing about Tellquivst, Cheevers, Parent, Thomas, Palmeteer, Bester, Wregget, forget it I won't bore myself with the exhautive list. I was at Potvin's NHL debut, he was awesome in a 3-1 loss.

These prospects come and go, the only one/s that panned out was Cheevers and Parent.Palmateer and Potvin had a couple good years.

I'll take a bird in the hand rather than 3 in the bush. Especially when it comes to goaltending.

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08-26-2005, 10:50 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess
We should just go with Eddie this year and next and then plan on Luongo when he is (*If he is) an UFA in 2 years from now .
Except that everyone in the universe will have a crack at him. The leafs will be just another team begging for his services.

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08-26-2005, 10:50 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
Heard the same thing about Tellquivst, Cheevers, Parent, Thomas, Palmeteer, Bester, Wregget, forget it I won't bore myself with the exhautive list. I was at Potvin's NHL debut, he was awesome in a 3-1 loss.

These prospects come and go, the only one/s that panned out was Cheevers and Parent.Palmateer and Potvin had a couple good years.

I'll take a bird in the hand rather than 3 in the bush. Especially when it comes to goaltending.
And how do you know Rask will be the same as them?

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08-26-2005, 10:59 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SuperMan313
And how do you know Rask will be the same as them?

I don't, but i have seen a ton of prospects come and go. Maybe Rask will be the next Turk Broda but the odds are against it. Very long odds.

Luongo is the real deal.

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08-26-2005, 11:18 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother Tucker
Heard the same thing about Tellquivst, Cheevers, Parent, Thomas, Palmeteer, Bester, Wregget, forget it I won't bore myself with the exhautive list. I was at Potvin's NHL debut, he was awesome in a 3-1 loss.

These prospects come and go, the only one/s that panned out was Cheevers and Parent.Palmateer and Potvin had a couple good years.

I'll take a bird in the hand rather than 3 in the bush. Especially when it comes to goaltending.
Next summer when he MIGHT be traded we can have this discussion for real. Right now it is all make believe. :-) But you make some real valid point and I like your reasoning regarding the draft picks. If Rask turns out to be the savior then great but there is still going to be a gap between him and Belfour that needs to be filled. It just isn't this year. And maybe Tellqvist or Aubin will be up to the task. But I am not saying they will. Just maybe. After a year we shall see.

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08-26-2005, 11:38 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy73806498
Next summer when he MIGHT be traded we can have this discussion for real. Right now it is all make believe. :-) But you make some real valid point and I like your reasoning regarding the draft picks. If Rask turns out to be the savior then great but there is still going to be a gap between him and Belfour that needs to be filled. It just isn't this year. And maybe Tellqvist or Aubin will be up to the task. But I am not saying they will. Just maybe. After a year we shall see.
If I had my druthers I would keep Belfour can the Luongo talk, sign Bondra and bring back Nolan and let Allison bust the cap this year and take a real crack at the cup this year. Of course I don't have my druthers and I know all you young guys disagree. But hey I have stood on Bay st for a Stanley Cup Parade. I want to do it again before they throw dirt on me.

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