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Kypreos: OTT shopping Spezza to the West

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Old
05-14-2014, 06:04 PM
  #951
Smitty26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Stating that our core players aren't going to be moved for an injury prone, soon to be UFA center isn't a mental lapse. It's common sense. Nice try.
Injury prone XD that's funny

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05-14-2014, 06:06 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Smitty26 View Post
Injury prone XD that's funny
So Spezza isn't injury prone? I mean come on, the guy has had injury problems his entire career.

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05-14-2014, 06:09 PM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
No you can't make that assumption, but it is a fact that Spezza will sign an extension before a trade.
Wait you mean people in this thread "know" that Spezza would sign an extension and therefore we should give up Oshie, but I can't say that Stastny would probably be available? Could have fooled me.

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05-14-2014, 06:09 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Yeah because we don't have any other players that are worth anything. Give it up. We aren't overpaying for Spezza. Get over your obsession with us giving up one of those four. It isn't going to happen.
Sorry, I guess people don't realize they are speaking to Doug Armstrong and these guys being not being moved is a foregone conclusion.

The Blues have underachieved in the playoffs for consecutive years. To think that one of those players couldn't be moved as part of a mini-shakeup is utterly ridiculous.

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05-14-2014, 06:09 PM
  #955
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lol he missed a grand total of 7 games this year? 2 of which were pregnancy related

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05-14-2014, 06:11 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
So being injured almost every year is not considered injury prone?
So playing 75+ games 2 of the last 3 years is injury prone?

See what I did there?

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05-14-2014, 06:11 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by MrG View Post
Sorry, I guess people don't realize they are speaking to Doug Armstrong and these guys being not being moved is a foregone conclusion.

The Blues have underachieved in the playoffs for consecutive years. To think that one of those players couldn't be moved as part of a mini-shakeup is utterly ridiculous.
When is the last time that a team moved it's first line right winger, who is dynamite in the possession game, for a UFA to be, center with injury issues? Please find me an example.

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05-14-2014, 06:12 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by MrG View Post
So playing 75+ games 2 of the last 3 years is injury prone?

See what I did there?
Have you ever had a serious back injury? How about a knee injury?

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05-14-2014, 06:12 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
When is the last time that a team moved it's first line right winger, who is dynamite in the possession game, for a UFA to be, center with injury issues? Please find me an example.
they dont need to?

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05-14-2014, 06:13 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by MrG View Post
Sorry, I guess people don't realize they are speaking to Doug Armstrong and these guys being not being moved is a foregone conclusion.

The Blues have underachieved in the playoffs for consecutive years. To think that one of those players couldn't be moved as part of a mini-shakeup is utterly ridiculous.
Armstrong could do a shakeup, but it would be for someone with term of comparable age. He isn't going to make a desperate move that will dramatically change the length of our Cup window.

Army has said repeatedly that he isn't going to rob Peter to pay Paul. It will be a futures trade for Spezza, not an Oshie. He's a stingy trader and when he overpays, he typically does it with picks, just look at what he did in Dallas, he loved trading 1sts.

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05-14-2014, 06:15 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Smitty26 View Post
lol he missed a grand total of 7 games this year? 2 of which were pregnancy related
So he has a family too?!

What the hell! Talk about a useless, unreliable, sorry excuse for a hockey player!

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05-14-2014, 06:15 PM
  #962
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I just popped into this thread. How the heck does Oshie get into a deal for (a presumably signed) Spezza?

Blues fans, make sure you guys come talk to us about Pavelski or Thornton. We wouldn't be asking for Oshie.

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05-14-2014, 06:18 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
I just popped into this thread. How the heck does Oshie get into a deal for (a presumably signed) Spezza?

Blues fans, make sure you guys come talk to us about Pavelski or Thornton. We wouldn't be asking for Oshie.
They're going to be pissed that we agreed on a Shatty+ for Pavelski deal lol.

Term and 2-way play is why that happened.

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05-14-2014, 06:19 PM
  #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
I just popped into this thread. How the heck does Oshie get into a deal for (a presumably signed) Spezza?

Blues fans, make sure you guys come talk to us about Pavelski or Thornton. We wouldn't be asking for Oshie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
They're going to be pissed that we agreed on a Shatty+ for Pavelski deal lol.

Term and 2-way play is why that happened.
That's because those are reasonable deals.

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05-14-2014, 06:23 PM
  #965
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Can we not discuss this without insulting one another? If you answered "no" I would recommend removing yourself from the thread before it happens for you.

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05-14-2014, 06:33 PM
  #966
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As a sens fan, I personally wasn't asking for Oshie, just saying that giving him up and acquiring Spezza still leaves a pretty good top-six, and shootout ability isn't diminished that bad because Spezza is pretty good there too.

Personally, I think Berglund + Rattie + 1st 2014 is a good deal, although I would rather replace Berglund with Sobotka and EDM 2nd, or maybe a prospect with a high ceiling (d-man top-prospect?)

I also have a question. Supposedly your first 2015 is gone, but I thought you only gave up a first if you made it to conference finals or resigned Miller? I obviously don't remember the trade right, so could someone clarify?

I would also love to get Shattenkirk out of St. Louis, but that's not happening for a pending UFA. So there are two options a) Resign him or b) add value, both of which I think are good.

What would you say to (unsigned) Spezza + Wiercioch + Da Costa/Pageau for Shattenkirk + 1st/Rattie/Jaskin + 2nd rounder 2015

Ottawa does this because:
They help their defence, get their 3rd rounder they lost for Hemsky back(ish) and get a good forward prospect/2014 1st back(ish).

St. Louis does this because:
Get their 1C
Get a very good forward centre prospect who is definitely ready for 4th line duty, could work their way up the line-up.
Get their offensive production lost from Shattenkirk back with Wiercioch, who has a lot of upside but was misused in Ottawa.

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05-14-2014, 06:35 PM
  #967
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How much does the bleedblue1223 think a signed Spezza is worth in terms of St Louis assets?

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05-14-2014, 06:37 PM
  #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemmer Time View Post
As a sens fan, I personally wasn't asking for Oshie, just saying that giving him up and acquiring Spezza still leaves a pretty good top-six, and shootout ability isn't diminished that bad because Spezza is pretty good there too.

Personally, I think Berglund + Rattie + 1st 2014 is a good deal, although I would rather replace Berglund with Sobotka and EDM 2nd, or maybe a prospect with a high ceiling (d-man top-prospect?)
We'd be much more amendable for that kind of deal. I think most of us would do that.
I also have a question. Supposedly your first 2015 is gone, but I thought you only gave up a first if you made it to conference finals or resigned Miller? I obviously don't remember the trade right, so could someone clarify?
The 2015 first was an undconditional pick. It's Buffalo's no matter what happens. The 2014 first was the conditional one. There were three conditions that would trigger it: making the conference finals, re-signing Miller before the draft, or trading his rights before the draft.
I would also love to get Shattenkirk out of St. Louis, but that's not happening for a pending UFA. So there are two options a) Resign him or b) add value, both of which I think are good.

What would you say to (unsigned) Spezza + Wiercioch + Da Costa/Pageau for Shattenkirk + 1st/Rattie/Jaskin + 2nd rounder 2015
Not really interested in that deal. It's not terrible value, but I prefer to keep Shattenkirk. He gets pretty underrated around here. He's put up at least 43 points in 3 of his first 4 years. That's not very common. Wiercioch is a decent piece but we'd suffer a pretty sizable dropoff. If we're moving him, I'd like a younger center that can grow with our core. Someone like Stepan.
Ottawa does this because:
They help their defence, get their 3rd rounder they lost for Hemsky back(ish) and get a good forward prospect/2014 1st back(ish).

St. Louis does this because:
Get their 1C
Get a very good forward centre prospect who is definitely ready for 4th line duty, could work their way up the line-up.
Get their offensive production lost from Shattenkirk back with Wiercioch, who has a lot of upside but was misused in Ottawa.
I put my thoughts in red just so it'd be easier to address each point individually.

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05-14-2014, 06:38 PM
  #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
I just popped into this thread. How the heck does Oshie get into a deal for (a presumably signed) Spezza?

Blues fans, make sure you guys come talk to us about Pavelski or Thornton. We wouldn't be asking for Oshie.
Spezza starts out next season at 31 years old, Thornton at 35 and Pavelski at 30. Spezza is a better playmaker than Pavelski, and Thornton is too old to garner a substantial return. And although I'm not sure if Oshie would ever be in a deal for Spezza, he isn't any more valuable than Him.

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05-14-2014, 06:39 PM
  #970
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Our 2015 1st was always included, but the 2014 was conditional and we'll be keeping it.

Replacing Berglund with Sobotka and a pick/prospect doesn't make much sense for us because Sobotka has more value. Sobotka is just the all-round better player. If Berglund gets faster, then he'd be better, but that isn't likely to happen.

As for that Shatty deal, it's the only way something would get done, but I have my questions about Wiercioch, so I'm not too sure if I'd want to do it

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05-14-2014, 06:41 PM
  #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatStateofHockey View Post
Spezza starts out next season at 31 years old, Thornton at 35 and Pavelski at 30. Spezza is a better playmaker than Pavelski, and Thornton is too old to garner a substantial return. And although I'm not sure if Oshie would ever be in a deal for Spezza, he isn't any more valuable than Him.
Thornton likely isn't in the conversation. Pavelski is signed for longer, and doesn't have the injury history of Spezza. Plus, he plays a fantastic two way game, which fits in great with our team.

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05-14-2014, 06:41 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Do Make Say Think View Post
How much does the bleedblue1223 think a signed Spezza is worth in terms of St Louis assets?
Lets just say if Spezza was signed for 2 or 3 years on his current deal because I think an extension with a specific team won't raise it dramatically unless he agrees with another team. If that happened, a trade with Shattenkirk would definitely be fine if we got Wiercioch as part of a bigger deal.

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05-14-2014, 06:43 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Our 2015 1st was always included, but the 2014 was conditional and we'll be keeping it.

Replacing Berglund with Sobotka and a pick/prospect doesn't make much sense for us because Sobotka has more value. Sobotka is just the all-round better player. If Berglund gets faster, then he'd be better, but that isn't likely to happen.

As for that Shatty deal, it's the only way something would get done, but I have my questions about Wiercioch, so I'm not too sure if I'd want to do it
If Sobotka is the better player, than I definitely think we should be getting him back, maybe downgrade the pick. Berglund just kind of scares me, because he needs a strong support cast and we don't have one.

Wiercioch to me is very underrated, and the only reason I'm okay with giving him up is because Shattenkirk is young and has similar capabilities.

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05-14-2014, 06:44 PM
  #974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatStateofHockey View Post
Spezza starts out next season at 31 years old, Thornton at 35 and Pavelski at 30. Spezza is a better playmaker than Pavelski, and Thornton is too old to garner a substantial return. And although I'm not sure if Oshie would ever be in a deal for Spezza, he isn't any more valuable than Him.
The age argument again. Yet Thornton at 34 had more pts than Spezza at 30 and was 2nd in the league in assists.

If the Blues want one of the best 2 way Centers in the league, Pavs is it. He'd cost Shattenkirk +
If the Blues want the better playmaker for the next 3-4 yrs, that's Thornton, who won't cost Oshie.

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05-14-2014, 06:48 PM
  #975
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Originally Posted by Hemmer Time View Post
If Sobotka is the better player, than I definitely think we should be getting him back, maybe downgrade the pick. Berglund just kind of scares me, because he needs a strong support cast and we don't have one.

Wiercioch to me is very underrated, and the only reason I'm okay with giving him up is because Shattenkirk is young and has similar capabilities.
Berglund needs a linemate with speed and playmaking ability. He looks way different when he is with Schwartz, Oshie, or Tarasenko compared to when he is with 3rd line talent.

Sobotka and Berglund both have pros and cons and probably have similar values. Our management will value Sobotka higher, but Berglund does have potential to become more.

I'd be fine with including either one in a Spezza deal and they'd ultimately have the same value, so it'd be Berglund/Sobotka+Rattie/Jaskin+1st/Edm 2nd.

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