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Historic Hatred For Crosby (Mod Warning - Post #2)

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Old
05-12-2014, 08:29 PM
  #26
LeBlondeDemon10
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Tonight Grapes said that Crosby is taking all sorts of abuse that stars in past eras didn't because of the instigator rule. As a result, Crosby possibly complains more to the refs than former stars. Maybe that has been a factor in more criticism/hatred?

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05-12-2014, 09:32 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Messier View Post
This is what I thought was going to happen to Crosby. Sure, his first couple of years were tainted with perceptions of whining and diving, but as he matured, he would shred that reputation and become respected around the league like Mario and Gretzky. But that hasn't happened, if anything, the reputation from early in his career has grown even stronger.
I think that's exactly it. And you're right, he has done nothing to shed the reputation.

Much like Gretzky, Crosby was a bit of whiner early on, but shut people up by winning Ross/Hart Trophy's, got to the final and lost, then came back the next year and beat the team that had denied him the previous year. Just like Gretzky.

But then it went downhill somewhat. The injury issues, and the repeated playoff meltdowns. Pittsburgh has choked in the playoffs repeatedly since their Cup win, and usually does so in ugly fashion. There's no good way to lose, but Crosby certainly doesn't do it gracefully.

There was that expectation that his career would continue to track like Gretzky's, but instead it has done a complete 180. The debacle that was the series against Philly in 2012, the humiliation at the hands of Boston last year, the ugly victory over the Blue Jackets in recent weeks, and now a blown 3-1 series lead to a seemingly dead in the water Rangers club...that chain of events just simply wouldn't happen to Gretzky. Nor did it happen to Yzerman or Sakic. Crosby is supposed to be the poised, calming presence out there. Not the ringleader of circus that has come unglued every April/May for the past 5 years.

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05-12-2014, 09:39 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
Tonight Grapes said that Crosby is taking all sorts of abuse that stars in past eras didn't because of the instigator rule. As a result, Crosby possibly complains more to the refs than former stars. Maybe that has been a factor in more criticism/hatred?
This coupled with the fact that the pens team has been incredibly soft the last 5 years I think leads to some of the complaining.

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05-12-2014, 11:02 PM
  #29
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I've said this before and will say it again. The best player in the NHL is always one where everyone else has envy towards. With social media and such we've just become even meaner as a sports loving society. It's almost more personal. But this stuff happened in Gretzky's day as well. I can remember it clearly. No one wanted a skinny kid to tear the NHL records apart. Hard to believe it took until 1982 for Gretzky to win the Pearson award. He just scraped through and won the Hart in 1981. Nothing against Liut, but Gretzky had a historical season where he shattered the points and assists record and the writers barely think he should have won the Hart. That tells you something there.

Then Mario in 1989 with a 199 point season not winning the Hart or Pearson. Hmmm. Tells you something a bit there doesn't it? This is how it was with Mario. He really didn't get respect until he had cancer. Or maybe got a bit of it from the two Cups, but his critics only then started to shut up in 1993 and I can remember his retirement in 1997 and his comeback in 2000 where the odd person would still say Mario didn't "care" about hockey and was a whiner. Here's a guy who has nothing left to prove, wins the scoring title in a season he has cancer and there are still people questioning his heart.

So I guess I am saying is that from modern memory Crosby has some company. They all "got it" when they were the best players. From that time before Crosby there were a mix of players. One like Jagr, Sakic, Iginla, Forsberg, etc. None of them got it bad at all except Jagr to an extent. There were always cries that he didn't try hard enough or that he should lead the Pens to a Cup ("he can't do it without Mario or Francis."). It never got to personal with Jagr for whatever reason. I guess we always thought of him more as that kid in our school who had a tough time speaking english. But he did get flack for that "salute" after he scored a goal. But Hasek drove everyone nuts outside of Buffalo. Sakic and Iginla were never outright the best in the sport and even then were hard to dislike either way.

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05-12-2014, 11:09 PM
  #30
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Another reason it is just pure jealousy is that I have conversations with fans and ask them who the best player in the world is. "It's NOT Crosby" they say. Hmmm. Why not? "Because he's a whiner."

"Alright, umm, sometimes when the camera is on a superstar 24/7 they are going to catch everything he does good or bad and the media likes to pick and choose the..................."

"I don't care, he's a whiner. A cry baby. Cindy Crosby!""

"Okay, well if you were a GM wouldn't you want him on your team?"

"No way, he's a whiner!"


Anyone else have conversations like this? They aren't all 14 year old kids. This is just people who make up their own mind with things and fly with it. But the media has created a monster and since the majority of our society lets the media dictate how they view life then they get a taste of Crosby all the time, good and bad and get resentful.

It will take some time, the kid is just 26 years old now. As I said, Jagr could drive people nuts back in the 1990s with his little quirks but today he's a 42 year old greybeard with lots of respect league wide. Time heals all wounds, you learn to appreciate a player once they are gone. I prefer living in the moment and enjoying them right now, but most people don't. Hence, you get the false idea that all of these all-time greats had the red carpet rolled out for them during their playing days, and they didn't.

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05-12-2014, 11:22 PM
  #31
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Just some famous quotes about Gretzky in his first years in the NHL just to show you that he wasn't revered by everyone at all.

"Lafleur is going to put the 20 year old Gretzky in his back pocket." - Richard Sevigny on the worst playoff prediction I've ever seen in 1981

"Weak-kneed wimps" - Alright maybe they deserved this in 1982 after losing to the Kings, but Gretzky's Oilers were thought of as a team that couldn't win playing the style they did and this made people happy.

In 1983 always controversial analyst Dick Beddoes predicted Gretzky wouldn't have been among the top 3 centers on the 1948 Maple Leafs (Apps, Bentley, Kennedy). And we don't need to be reminded of how he was peeling apart the NHL by habit by 1983 and he still didn't have respect.

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05-12-2014, 11:43 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
In 1983 always controversial analyst Dick Beddoes predicted Gretzky wouldn't have been among the top 3 centers on the 1948 Maple Leafs (Apps, Bentley, Kennedy). And we don't need to be reminded of how he was peeling apart the NHL by habit by 1983 and he still didn't have respect.
Ya, mind you, he did recant all of those statements as time progressed so kudo's for that. Man enough to admit when he was wrong. But here you go, 7min video with Beddoes, Peter Gzowski & Barbara Frum from 1982 discussing Wayne Gretzky & his $20M Contract...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-0rHnnS7U8

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05-12-2014, 11:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
...you get the false idea that all of these all-time greats had the red carpet rolled out for them during their playing days, and they didn't.
I think this is a very salient point (which I know you've raised before).

Gretzky is the perfect example because fans with short memories, or those born after the 70s, never saw him at his prime and can't conceive of him being targeted and hit, but he was. Gretzky engendered huge amounts of animosity, hatred, anger, and jealousy all through his early life -- from age 9 and up.

In Gretzky's first few seasons in the NHL, he was labelled a 'whiner', a 'wimp', and all the former-generation stars (Maurice Richard, etc.) said he would never have been great in "their day", etc. (you never hear anyone say this kind of thing now).

And he was a bit of whiner, often losing his temper and shouting at referees. He was ejected from a handful of games for unsportsmanlike conduct, etc.

Video exists of those first few Gretzky seasons when he was slammed to the ice in hits, leveled at the blue-line by Bill McCreary, etc. He wore extra padding because he was hacked and whacked so much. (As late as 1985, he was punched in the head and felled by Dave Taylor of the Kings.) As late as the 1988 playoffs he was being harassed constantly by Doug Smail and was angry enough to even throw a body-check at him!

All of this began to change around the turn of the 80s to the 90s after Gretzky went to L.A. and had become a living legend, the highest-scoring player of all-time by age 27.

Crosby now is 26, which was Gretzky's age in 1987, at the time of his 3rd Stanley Cup and the '87 Canada Cup.

Whereas Gretzky was, in 1987, starting to achieve a universal respect from all his peers and his forebears, Crosby is not quite achieving that. This is for two reasons: (1) Crosby is not nearly as dominant as Gretzky and isn't an 'otherworldly' star, and (2) Gretzky was smarter than Crosby at adapting his youthful passions and at adapting his game against more challenging opponents.

There's still time for Crosby to achieve that universal respect, but his pace isn't accelerating to maturity like Gretzky's did. Crosby is still seen saying fairly juvenile remarks in interviews after losses, and his game still suffers from being focused on by his opponent (as at present).

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05-13-2014, 08:23 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
Tonight Grapes said that Crosby is taking all sorts of abuse that stars in past eras didn't because of the instigator rule. As a result, Crosby possibly complains more to the refs than former stars. Maybe that has been a factor in more criticism/hatred?
That's crazy.

Stars have always gotten their fair share of abuse - especially in the playoffs.

Lemieux got it a bit too as Cherry mentioned but that was partly because he was a wuss as far as getting involved physically (obviously he was tough as hell mentally to overcome what he did in his career). He could have carved out some space for himself if he had wanted to since he was 6-4 220.

IMO, Jagr got it worse than anyone by virtue of hitting his peak during the worst time for all that crap (late 90s). He took a ton of abuse.

Crosby is a bit on the slight side compared to those two so that is one problem he has in comparison.

He also gets off his game much easier than either of Jagr or Lemieux too. Although Lemieux let it get to him at times as well.

I do agree with Cherry that the thing that bothers me is that, in the past, instigator rule or not: if you started running a star you knew your time was coming too. Why isn't anyone getting in the mix for Crosby?

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05-13-2014, 09:54 AM
  #35
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I think those guys mentioned were guys who even if you disliked them, you could take a step back and say, "Yeah, that guy was the man." - whether during or after their careers.

I don't know if Crosby is that.

I also think Crosby has been pushed as though he is one of those players, on their level, which he isn't, so there's resentment towards him.

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05-13-2014, 10:42 AM
  #36
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As a Pens fan since the 70s I'm not sure I would agree that Lemieux was overly reluctant to get involved in physical play. I mean, sure he didn't get in a fight every game but there were absolutely times when he fought or otherwise made his physical presence felt. But in the grand scheme of things I would guess teams wanted him to get involved in the physical stuff so that he would end up in the box.

You can't be the fourth best (or wherever you want to rank him) player in history sitting on your butt in the box.

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05-13-2014, 11:14 AM
  #37
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Crosby lacks the mythology associated with his predecessors. It’s that simple to me.

The Rocket? Just read “The Hockey Sweater” or the back of the old $5 bill. Think about that: the most read hockey book is about the Rocket and the Canadian Mint excerpted its opening on the back of our currency, complete with a picture of little number 9s on the skating rink. The story itself? Richard is a Christ figure, a fighter for francophone Canada. The man who inspired school children across the province to strike back, and some scholars link him directly to the Quiet Revolution. The Richard Riot. 5 consecutive “get even with them bigwigs” Stanley Cups to end his career. Last man called out to the ice when the forum was closing down, recipient of a genuine State Funeral.

Big Gordie? Now there’s a story about “the natural” of humble origins and even humbler character. A dirt poor kid from Saskatchewan, his mother buys a pair of old skates from a depression era beggar woman and Gordie has to (eventually) nab the second skate from his sister. Legendary physical strength (remember the story about him carrying a bag of concrete on each shoulder and one in his teeth?) Overlooked by the Rangers, signed by the Wings, nearly dies from a skull fracture in 1950, but miraculously returns to the game to shine once more the following season. Could have been the heavyweight champ, knocked balls clear out of Tiger Stadium, and defies father time for decades. Returns to the game after a 2 year hiatus to play with his sons and then even joins them in the NHL for one last hurrah and his FIFTH decade of professional hockey! Now there’s a mythological story!

Bobby Orr? Was the phrase “Boy Wonder” used before Orr’s emergence? Born in a small town, stumbled upon by a Bruins’ bird-dog while playing in a tournament in Gananoque (I dare you to try pronouncing that without any hiccups) as a 100 lb. 12 year old. Performer of on-ice feats beyond compare, revolutionizes the d-man position, eventually immortalized in a single photograph where he is flying through the air like a bird. And then tragedy: he’s not Atlas but instead Achilles (but with a bum knee) and tearfully retires, but not before thrilling his nation one last time by taking on the evil Soviets and leading Canada to victory. And he is still a boy! The horror of Evil Betrayal follows the tragedy as news of Eagleson’s treachery becomes common knowledge and Canadians from across the land curse the villainy of he who would crap upon our HERO and leave him a penniless bankrupt.

Gretzky? That’s easy, and I will be really quick here. Creation of the Sage Grandpa-like Walter, a true hockey savant (378 goals in a single Atom season?) and then a teenage sensation, shatters all records imaginable. Fistful of Stanley Cups in Edmonton and then weds a so-called Hollywood starlet in a ceremony broadcast coast to coast and called “Canada’s Royal Wedding.” He’s the man, the star, the greatest ever, a true patriot . . . and then he is betrayed and banished to a foreign land, his tears flowing on national television break our collective hearts and we weep along with him as our treasure is shipped off like a barrel of crude oil to the ugly and greedy Americans.

So why doesn’t Crosby get the love we bestow on the Rocket, Howe, Orr and Gretzky? Because there’s no universally accepted narrative yet, no myth-inspired life story that has worked its way into our collective consciousness to the point of becoming genuinely transcendent. But if you look closely at the Crosby story so far, many of the raw materials are already in place to construct just such a story.

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05-13-2014, 02:28 PM
  #38
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This is an engaging thread, as the subject matter goes beyond Crosby and raises interesting points about media coverage, how the game has changed, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I do agree with Cherry that the thing that bothers me is that, in the past, instigator rule or not: if you started running a star you knew your time was coming too. Why isn't anyone getting in the mix for Crosby?
Yes, this is pretty black and white for me, too. I watch players take liberties with #87 and immediately anticipate a rebuttal....and none is forthcoming. There is something to be said for keeping composure. There is something else to be said for not allowing your captain and star player to be abused.

***

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXVFaYK-CbA

Gretzky, SCF 1983...Crosby, Eastern Conference Semi-Finals, 2014

History repeating.


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05-13-2014, 03:39 PM
  #39
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That's crazy.

Stars have always gotten their fair share of abuse - especially in the playoffs.

Lemieux got it a bit too as Cherry mentioned but that was partly because he was a wuss as far as getting involved physically (obviously he was tough as hell mentally to overcome what he did in his career). He could have carved out some space for himself if he had wanted to since he was 6-4 220.

IMO, Jagr got it worse than anyone by virtue of hitting his peak during the worst time for all that crap (late 90s). He took a ton of abuse.

Crosby is a bit on the slight side compared to those two so that is one problem he has in comparison.

He also gets off his game much easier than either of Jagr or Lemieux too. Although Lemieux let it get to him at times as well.

I do agree with Cherry that the thing that bothers me is that, in the past, instigator rule or not: if you started running a star you knew your time was coming too. Why isn't anyone getting in the mix for Crosby?
Did you see Cherry's clips? I have never seen a star player in the league take that much. Aside from the odd body check, Gretzky never took 99% of the abuse Crosby is getting. And that was because of Semenko. Same with Bossy who had Gillies, Lafleur and Robinson.

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05-13-2014, 04:27 PM
  #40
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I wasn't aware there was any hatred for Crosby (aside from fans of the Pens' rival teams) until I came on this board recently.

I suspect it comes down to two things:

1) He's the first hockey superstar of the social-media era, and so his exploits are over-reported, over-analyzed, over-criticized, over-everything. Compare when Gretzky was playing, many of his games weren't even televised. Even in the Lindros era, few hockey fans used the Internet.

It's easy to get sick of Crosby, by no fault of his own.

2) He's been WAY over-hyped as "the face of the game" by the North American media (this also exacerbates problem #1). His every trip to the bathroom was being reported by hockey media before he'd played one game. This makes it much easier to get annoyed with him (also not his fault).
I think this is absolutely correct and a large part of the negative perceptions about Crosby. However, here is my full take.....

1. As you said, Social Media and coverage saturation online with YouTube and on TV with the NHL Network, fans outside of Pittsburgh are sick of everything NHL being reduced to Crosby, Crosby, Crosby. If Crosby makes a great play, the hockey media beats it to death, almost ignoring the fact that thousands of plays have been made that are equal or better.

2. Preferential treatment. I know there is a balance here between Sid fans crying foul and non-Sid fans saying he ALWAYS gets the benefit of the doubt, but in all honesty, Crosby and the Penguins have gotten the better end of the stick more often than not. Granted, Crosby is not the ONLY superstar to receive some special treatment but (as stated above) everything is seen, passed along on Twitter and evaluated these days.

3. Crosby is a great player but not nearly AS GREAT as the media and NHL marketing machine make him out to be. Anyone who has watched this game for decades can tell with their own eyes how great Sid is (and isn't) but according to those in charge of "selling" the game, you would think Crosby is better than Gretzky and Lemieux combined. This is NOT Sid's fault but it gets irritating after years of it. I'll go on record as saying, I honestly think he is the best out of a group of hockey players who overall are not AS GREAT as players in the mid-80s to 2000. The Greztkys, Lemieuxs, Yzermans, Bourques, Coffeys, Messiers, Sakics, Forsbergs, Chelioses, Lidstroms etc. are better than the best players today. When you look at players like Selanne and Jagr still being GREAT at 40-42 against players like Crosby and Malkin in their prime, it's scary to imagine what these guys would do today in their primes the way penalties are being called and players have greatly reduced the amount of clutching, grabbing and brutality.

4. Was the Crosby draft fixed? Again, this is all speculation and hearsay, but it HAS been bantered about by many fans. The Crosby "lottery" was done so cloak and dagger it reeked of the NHL doing the Pens and Mario a solid by ensuring Sid ended up a Penguin. Although it will never be (or unlikely to be) proven, there are fans of the game who feel Bettman and the NHL manipulate circumstances to help teams and ownerships in need. Do I personally think the Crosby draft was rigged? If I had to bet my life on it, I'd say NO... but the thought has crossed my mind more than a few times. I put nothing past Bettman & co. when finances and franchises hang in the balance.

But, here's where I think Crosby shares some blame...

5. Outside of the Olympic OT goal, Crosby is a living legend created by the NHL marketing machine for the most part. Again, he is the best player in the game today, but his legend far exceeds his accomplishments. Right now Sid is 15th in playoff scoring and he's played MORE games than 9 of the players AHEAD of him. When was a healthy, PRIME Gretzky or Lemieux 15th in playoff scoring when playing as many playoff games as their peers?! The year the Penguins won the Cup, Crosby left game 7 before anything happened and, thanks to Talbot, the Pens edged the Wings in that game. Yet people talk about Sid like "he won the Pens the Cup" (almost like Lemieux did). What if Talbot wasn't clutch and the Pens LOST to the Wings and Sid had no Cup? What then? He'd probably be criticized as an underachiever the way Ovechkin is today. The way I see it, if Crosby is AS GREAT as people want you to believe... step up, grab the league by the throat, and dominate it for a 5 year span during the season and in the playoffs the way the Gretzkys and Lemieuxs did. I'm not talking about just winning Harts and Art Rosses (against inferior talent that what 99 and 66 competed against) but dominating when it matters most. The year Crosby got all the "praise" for winning Gold for Canada in the Olympics, he was average all tournament UNTIL that one goal. Meanwhile, in 1987 Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky DOMINATED the Red Army team (far better than any team Crosby ever played against) and they scored the BIG goals too. This year in the Olympics, Sid was just "good" again. That doesn't cut it for many fans... if Sid is labelled this incredible, generational talent. Just being honest.

6. Crosby's attitude and bratty approach at times. Other stars like Shore, Lindsay, Lindros and Chelios were loathed because they were nasty. But Sid is hated because he is whiny, embellishes without question, and is dirty (not tough). Him and Malkin are the kings of "acting tough" after the whistle once the linesmen are in to protect them. Crosby also lacks respect for his peers... evident the way he was disrespecting a legend like Forsberg as a rookie when Forsberg told him to stop diving. There are a collection of videos on YouTube that focus on Sid's diving, embellishing, cheap play and whining to players and officials alike. Yes, he's a great player, but there are things about his approach that are very unlikable to some fans who've watched this game for a long time.

To bottom line it, I think the Pens (and Sid) fans have every right to cheer him on and only look at the great things. That's what being a fan is. But unbiased fans see Crosby is a slightly different light. And it's not just because of the team he plays for. Lemieux and Jagr as examples of other Penguins who were polarizing at times but they were SO GREAT that, at the end of the day, season or game, fans gave them their just due. Crosby hasn't earned that free pass with the masses yet because he hasn't lived up to the "billing" yet.

Personally, I like Crosby a bit. I'm not his biggest fan, but I consider him a great player and probably a great role model for kids today. But I can see why there are a group of fans that just don't think he's all that. I certainly don't think he's as great as advertised.


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05-13-2014, 05:05 PM
  #41
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I would say Lindros took that stuff all the time. Of course he dished it out even more. He was 100% involved in the physical aspect of things. Maybe Lindros tones it down and he scores more goals, but with his size, I think he needed to strike that fear into others. Crosby meanwhile doesn't have that physical stature to him. I think people admire him for going into the corners and mucking it up but to be honest he does this way too often and it sacrifices his offense. Bottom line is Crosby is too talented to be getting this involved after the whistle and such. Win the games with the blade of your stick, that's the last thing an opponent wants is for Crosby to find his "2009 vs. Washington" groove again. Don't bother with the theatrics.

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05-13-2014, 11:43 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post
Crosby lacks the mythology associated with his predecessors. Itís that simple to me.

......
.....
....
...
..
.

So why doesnít Crosby get the love we bestow on the Rocket, Howe, Orr and Gretzky? Because thereís no universally accepted narrative yet, no myth-inspired life story that has worked its way into our collective consciousness to the point of becoming genuinely transcendent. But if you look closely at the Crosby story so far, many of the raw materials are already in place to construct just such a story.
Great post, thanks for the read.

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05-13-2014, 11:47 PM
  #43
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Forsberg of all people actually told Crosby to stop diving?

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05-13-2014, 11:54 PM
  #44
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Guy Lafleur got hit and slashed and crosschecked like very few-most of you were not born-but cherry would put John Wensik on him and his face was bloody.Lafleur would then get slashed and cross checked by Mike Milbury-Read the stories about how lafleur got abused it would surprise some of you

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05-13-2014, 11:56 PM
  #45
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People dont like Crosby because his shtick is lame.

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05-14-2014, 12:04 AM
  #46
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Another myth is superstars were protected-pre-Bossy players used their sticks to protect themselves and yes if you were abused badly your teamates were all in a fight and their was blood all over the ice.Now a days a player gets a tooth knocked out and people make a big deal

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05-14-2014, 12:13 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
The difference is that Mario was a more entertaining player than Crosby
Not only Mario, I think quite a lot of players in todays game are too. Malkin for example, pretty easily. Ovechkin at his best, perhaps not now though. Giroux, and so on. Perhaps not a lot of players, but a fair amount. It's easy to see for a knowledgeable fan of the game that he's got a lot of skills, but he doesn't have that wow factor in his game to appeal to most and everyone of the casual fans. It's like he has the playing style of a grinder. He also doesn't have the good looks, nor the charisma, to weigh it up. And he comes across as somewhat of a spoiled brat, even though he's a hard worker.

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05-14-2014, 12:54 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
Did you see Cherry's clips? I have never seen a star player in the league take that much. Aside from the odd body check, Gretzky never took 99% of the abuse Crosby is getting. And that was because of Semenko. Same with Bossy who had Gillies, Lafleur and Robinson.
I didn't see the clips but star players in the 90s and in the DPE took a lot of abuse. Forsberg, Lindros, Bure, Neely. Derian Hatcher & Chris Therien were allowed to hang on your back all through the game and you had to watch out for cheapshots from Marchment, Dale Hunter & Ulf Samuelsson. Gretzky and the 80s perhaps a different story, but Crosby's no Gretzky in the first place as for playing style.

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05-14-2014, 01:55 AM
  #49
Czech Your Math
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
That's crazy.

Stars have always gotten their fair share of abuse - especially in the playoffs.

Lemieux got it a bit too as Cherry mentioned but that was partly because he was a wuss as far as getting involved physically (obviously he was tough as hell mentally to overcome what he did in his career). He could have carved out some space for himself if he had wanted to since he was 6-4 220.

IMO, Jagr got it worse than anyone by virtue of hitting his peak during the worst time for all that crap (late 90s). He took a ton of abuse.

Crosby is a bit on the slight side compared to those two so that is one problem he has in comparison.

He also gets off his game much easier than either of Jagr or Lemieux too. Although Lemieux let it get to him at times as well.

I do agree with Cherry that the thing that bothers me is that, in the past, instigator rule or not: if you started running a star you knew your time was coming too. Why isn't anyone getting in the mix for Crosby?
Agreed. What Crosby has to deal with is standard IMO. What Lemieux, Jagr, etc. had to deal with was far worse. You had Lemieux taking two-handed chops to the neck and wrist... targeted and harassed to the point that he termed it a "garage league" and later quit... and Jagr being slashed, hooked, held and tackled at will on virtually every shift (it was a quiet shift if only one player was doing that... it wasn't that uncommon to see a couple guys water skiing or piggybacking simultaneously)... and similarly to a a somewhat lesser degree with other stars of that era, although many (Lindros, Forsberg, etc.) may have given as much or more than they got. As you astutely mentioned, Crosby is not as big as those guys, and not as skilled either IMO... so much less abuse seems to affect him much more.

Watching Crosby wilt under the slightest physical pressure has to make one wonder how he would have fared in the old Patrick Division. You had the Rangers with the aforementioned axe chops... and that doesn't even include Messier's antics. Then you had Lindros & the Flyers... 'nuff said. Finally, you had the semi-dynastic Devils, with their suffocating defensive system: top quality defensive forwards capable of shadowing to the point of stalking... if you got through that, you had to face the speed and smarts of Niedermayer and/or the fearsome presence of Stevens... and finally the steady brilliance of Brodeur.

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05-14-2014, 02:40 AM
  #50
TAnnala
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Crosby is probably just as skilled as Jagr and Lindros. But he is not as strong. Which is not an insult. Not a lot of hockey players were stronger than Lindros and Jagr.

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