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Kypreos: TOR shopping Phaneuf to the West - Part II

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:06 AM
  #26
Reclamation Project
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miley View Post
Realistic trades for Phaneuf:

EDM - 3rd overall
ANA - Lindholm, but they don't need Phaneuf
CAL - 4th overall, but they don't need Phaneuf ATM
COL- ROR + 1rst pick
DAL- I don't know that much about them
LA- Toffoli +
MIN - Coyle +
NAS- doesn't need him
PHO- doesn't need him
STL - doesn't need him
WIN- Trouba or Schiefele+
SJ - nothing interesting
CHI - doesn't need him
VAN- Horvat+

Phaneuf isn't gonna be traded for crap.
Never in a million years. No way.

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:06 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Four1 Lead View Post
You would think that a top 15 NHL defenceman would make his national team at some point in his career.

Phaneuf is more likely to rank between 20th and 35th in NHL defenceman rankings.
He did represent Canada at the WJC and the world championships. Wasn't he also considered for the Olympic team in 2010 or 2014? I think it was 2010 but he didn't make it. Giroux didn't make the 2014 team either, doesn't mean he sucks.

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:08 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Your right about two things here.

1) You really dont know much(If anything) about Trouba.

2) Trouba isn't in the same Tier as Rielly, he's probably 2 tiers above.
you don't know much about rielly because he's better than trouba.

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05-13-2014, 02:08 AM
  #29
desperateblue
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Ok so the jets dont need any help they are awesome already got it.

Well dion is going somewhere and it wont be for matt stajan

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:09 AM
  #30
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by miley View Post
you don't know much about rielly because he's better than trouba.
Not even worth a response.

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:10 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by miley View Post
If you want Dion, you gotta give something up. Toronto ain't giving him to you for crap. Most teams can use a top pairing dman and he will probably be the best dman available.

Phaneuf is a top 15 Dman in the league and 7x7 is a fair value for him. Unfortunately the blue and white jersey diminishes his value on HFBoards. Thankfully GMs don't have a Leaf bias like everyone here.

I look forward to revisiting my post when/if the Phaneuf deal happens
You don't know enough about other teams to properly assess whether any possible offer outside of the loony bin offers you put out there would actually be crap.

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:10 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
You honestly can't name 15 d-men you'd take over Phanuef?

- Weber
- Kieth
- Chara
- Subban
- Seabrook
- OEL
- Pietrangelo
- Bouwmeester
- Hamhuis
- Karlsson
- Doughty
- Giordano
- Kronwall
- Suter
- McDonagh
- Josi
- Hedman
- Fowler
- Enstrom

... off the top of my head...
Some debatable dmen on your list bro. Even if he's not a top 15 dman, he's atleast a top 20 dman. Can you list 19 dmen that are CLEARLY better than Phaneuf? Yeah didn't think so.

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:12 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by desperateblue View Post
Ok so the jets dont need any help they are awesome already got it.

Well dion is going somewhere and it wont be for matt stajan
On Defense your absolutely right.


Between Bogosian, Trouba, Enstrom, Byfuglien(If he's playing Defense), and Stuart they dont need any help at all.

Actually, its possible within a year or two Phaneuf would actually be the #5 Dman on that team. He'd already be #3 at best behind Byfuglien and Enstrom.


Personally, I'd even take Trouba right now over Phaneuf. Trouba is that good(Btw Rielly is not).

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05-13-2014, 02:13 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
Never in a million years. No way.
That was the best of them all.. and it was still ******.


Last edited by peen: 05-13-2014 at 02:14 AM. Reason: terrible grammar.
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Old
05-13-2014, 02:17 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miley View Post
Some debatable dmen on your list bro. Even if he's not a top 15 dman, he's atleast a top 20 dman. Can you list 19 dmen that are CLEARLY better than Phaneuf? Yeah didn't think so.
Lets see.

Take his list(Which was accurate, all are easily ahead of Phaneuf).

And add:

Erik Johnson
Dan Girardi
Keith Yandle
Kris Letang
M.E. Vlasic


That's 5 more for sure right there.

I personally would also add Byfuglien, Hjalmarsson, Sekera, and Martin to the list as well.

So for me, Phaneuf ranks at #25 among Dmen. Just ahead of JMFJ, Myers, Tyutin, Voynov, and Staal.

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:19 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
You honestly can't name 15 d-men you'd take over Phanuef?

- Weber
- Kieth
- Chara
- Subban
- Seabrook
- OEL
- Pietrangelo
- Bouwmeester
- Hamhuis
- Karlsson
- Doughty
- Giordano
- Kronwall
- Suter
- McDonagh
- Josi
- Hedman
- Fowler
- Enstrom

... off the top of my head...
I think it's fair to say Phaneuf is a top 30 NHL D-man. I'd question some of those names on your list specifically, but top 15 is a bit too high.

Chara, Giordano, Keith, Seabrook, Kronwall, Doughty, Suter, Subban, Weber, McDonagh, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson, Yandle, Letang, Pietrangelo, Vlasic, Hedman is an easy 17

Then there's still Sekera, Wisniewski, E.Johnson, Campbell, Josi, JBo, Hamhuis that I think I take over Dion (I personally don't like JBo but I'm minority) so that's 24

I think Dion takes one of the last 6 spots in the top 30. Probably Enstrom, Green, Carlson with him there. Maybe Myers. Depends on if Byfuglien is classified as a D or not too. The young guys like Hamilton, Murray and Trouba I'd probably rather have.

In other words, the guy is super undervalued here considering on some teams (like my Oilers), he's a No.1 D-man. Maybe he'd be moreso on the Leafs with a different, more competent coach.

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:27 AM
  #37
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MOD

Both Phaneuf and Byfuglien are capable of some terrible Defensive plays.

I take Phaneuf over Byfuglien from a Pure Defense stand point. But I easily take Big Buff over Phaneuf from an Offensive standpoint.

And Overall I give the slight advantage to Buff. They're both right around the 25-30 mark among Dmen though assuming you count Buff as a D.


Last edited by SoupNazi: 05-13-2014 at 08:47 AM. Reason: QDP
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Old
05-13-2014, 02:29 AM
  #38
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Cosign that buff-phaneuf is pretty close. I actually dont know who id rather have

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:31 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
You honestly can't name 15 d-men you'd take over Phanuef?

- Weber
- Kieth
- Chara
- Subban
- Seabrook
- OEL
- Pietrangelo
- Bouwmeester
- Hamhuis
- Karlsson
- Doughty
- Giordano
- Kronwall
- Suter
- McDonagh
- Josi
- Hedman
- Fowler
- Enstrom

... off the top of my head...
*cough* Vlasic *cough*

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:44 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post

Both Phaneuf and Byfuglien are capable of some terrible Defensive plays.

I take Phaneuf over Byfuglien from a Pure Defense stand point. But I easily take Big Buff over Phaneuf from an Offensive standpoint.

And Overall I give the slight advantage to Buff. They're both right around the 25-30 mark among Dmen though assuming you count Buff as a D.
"On some nights, the same can be said about Phaneuf" No, it cannot be said. Phaneuf is a defenseman that makes defenseman mistakes. Buff is a forward making forward mistakes, while playing defense on his team, when he plays defense, that is. A typical offense vs offense and defense vs defense comparison cannot be made because Phaneuf creates offense as a pure defender, from the point, where as Buff creates it as a 4th forward. And Phaneuf actually has defensive responsibilities that he needs to take care of, on top of being a point producing defender.

Phaneuf would be a top pairing D man on the Jets, he would more than likely be their top shut down defender and play all situations. Buff is and would be a winger on that team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsquanch9 View Post
Cosign that buff-phaneuf is pretty close. I actually dont know who id rather have
You can take whoever you want, its not about who you would rather take. Its about who is the better defenseman, the intial topic was where he ranks as a defenseman on the Jets. Buff is a forward for that team, who played forward this year down the stretch. He isn't even a D-man, thats why he can't be better than Phaneuf as a D man on that team.


Last edited by SoupNazi: 05-13-2014 at 08:47 AM. Reason: QEP
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Old
05-13-2014, 02:44 AM
  #41
sem1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miley View Post
Realistic trades for Phaneuf:

EDM - 3rd overall
ANA - Lindholm, but they don't need Phaneuf
CAL - 4th overall, but they don't need Phaneuf ATM
COL- ROR + 1rst pick
DAL- I don't know that much about them
LA- Toffoli +
MIN - Coyle +
NAS- doesn't need him
PHO- doesn't need him
STL - doesn't need him
WIN- Trouba or Schiefele+
SJ - nothing interesting
CHI - doesn't need him
VAN- Horvat+

Phaneuf isn't gonna be traded for crap.

Lol! Good luck with that, you wouldn't get a single one of those deals

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:50 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miley View Post
Realistic trades for Phaneuf:

EDM - 3rd overall
ANA - Lindholm, but they don't need Phaneuf
CAL - 4th overall, but they don't need Phaneuf ATM
COL- ROR + 1rst pick
DAL- I don't know that much about them
LA- Toffoli +
MIN - Coyle +
NAS- doesn't need him
PHO- doesn't need him
STL - doesn't need him
WIN- Trouba or Schiefele+
SJ - nothing interesting
CHI - doesn't need him
VAN- Horvat+

Phaneuf isn't gonna be traded for crap.
ROR AND a 1st. please ...the Avs get hosed hardcore on that one.

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Old
05-13-2014, 02:51 AM
  #43
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Lol! Good luck with that, you wouldn't get a single one of those deals
I agree.

Which team would even consider taking on that abhorrent contract?

http://www.capgeek.com/?charts_year=2014

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05-13-2014, 02:53 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by miley View Post
If you want Dion, you gotta give something up. Toronto ain't giving him to you for crap. Most teams can use a top pairing dman and he will probably be the best dman available.

Phaneuf is a top 15 Dman in the league and 7x7 is a fair value for him. Unfortunately the blue and white jersey diminishes his value on HFBoards. Thankfully GMs don't have a Leaf bias like everyone here.

I look forward to revisiting my post when/if the Phaneuf deal happens
The issue here is that when you look for comparables for a Phaneuf trade, you don't see what the Leaf fans are after.

The truth is that he is a high end player that should get a good haul, but his downsides put limits on the type of player that can come back. A Phaneuf trade would fetch a return similar to other similar high end players like the Rick Nash trade or, no surprise, the original Phaneuf trade.

That doesn't mean that the return is going to be terrible. It means you have to look past the marquee players and look for solid secondary pieces. Just like the Rick Nash trade, if your GM does his homework it can work out for the best.

So no, you aren't getting Hertl out of SJ, or the 3rd overall out of Edmonton, or Schiefele out of Winnipeg.

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05-13-2014, 03:35 AM
  #45
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Not a Phaneuf fan but do you people not realize how cheap $7M is in this new salary cap? In two years it's going to be like $5M is today.

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Old
05-13-2014, 04:21 AM
  #46
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I can see Burke liking him for a decent price seeing how he absolutely shafted Calgary for him years back.
So I wonder what the Flames are gonna give up for him.

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05-13-2014, 06:13 AM
  #47
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Not a Phaneuf fan but do you people not realize how cheap $7M is in this new salary cap? In two years it's going to be like $5M is today.
The cap would have to go up by about 40% in the next 2 years for 7m to become like 5m.

DP is a high profile player ( which makes him over valued on forum's ) at the start of a big ticket and while he would probably get a similar deal as a ufa that doesn't mean he'd be worth a high quality pkg of youth/high draft picks in return .

Few teams can on take on his salary without giving substantial money back and as a few others have said i also believe the return for DP would be along the lines of what the Jackets got for Nash .


Last edited by hotpaws: 05-13-2014 at 08:30 AM.
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05-13-2014, 06:14 AM
  #48
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So I wonder what the Flames are gonna give up for him.
Nothing

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Old
05-13-2014, 07:12 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
You honestly can't name 15 d-men you'd take over Phanuef?

- Weber
- Kieth
- Chara
- Subban
- Seabrook
- OEL
- Pietrangelo
- Bouwmeester
- Hamhuis
- Karlsson
- Doughty
- Giordano
- Kronwall
- Suter
- McDonagh
- Josi
- Hedman
- Fowler
- Enstrom

... off the top of my head...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Lets see.

Take his list(Which was accurate, all are easily ahead of Phaneuf).

And add:

Erik Johnson
Dan Girardi
Keith Yandle
Kris Letang
M.E. Vlasic


That's 5 more for sure right there.

I personally would also add Byfuglien, Hjalmarsson, Sekera, and Martin to the list as well.

So for me, Phaneuf ranks at #25 among Dmen. Just ahead of JMFJ, Myers, Tyutin, Voynov, and Staal.
Take Phaneuf over Hamhuis, Kronwall, Josi, Fowler, Enstrom, Byfuglien, Hjalmarsson (barely), Sekera, and Martin.

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05-13-2014, 07:13 AM
  #50
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Phaneuf-Vancouver

Yes we all know there were rumours that the Leafs are maybe shopping Phaneuf, so here is a quick and dirty proposal.

Toronto trades Phaneuf and Reimer to Vancouver

Vancouver trades Bieksa, Burrows and a 3rd round pick

Why Toronto does it....Basically because they feel they need a culture change, and most Toronto fans and media are too slow witted to realize that Phaneuf is their best Defenceman and has been since he arrived. But because he has a 7m cap hit, even though it isn't their money, they feel he is grossly overpaid. And because he is the captain he should fight all challengers, score 20 goals, sell popcorn between periods, and shrink the provincial deficit. Since he doesn't do those things, they feel he should be ripped of the C, and sent on his Merry way.

Why Vancouver does it....well their current core's best years are well behind them. While Bieksa is a good Dman, and a little cheaper than Phaneuf, the Nucks get a little younger in this deal and get out from the contract of Burrrows at 4.5m. Yes Burrows can still turn it around, but at age 32 and after his lackluster 13-14 season, I thinks the Canucks would be happy to package the two for Phaneuf. And why Reimer? Well Eddie Lack is unproven and Markstrom isn't a very good NHL player. Yes he is still 24, but he has never played well against NHL shooters (and he has been given many chances). Reimer provides some competition for Lack and gives them a more stable back end position to build from. And he is still pretty cheap and a western boy.

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