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Old
10-01-2003, 12:53 PM
  #1
Evgeny Oliker
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Hedberg

hi guys. i'm curious if you think HEDBERG could become the starter or do you feel CLOUTIER is more of a lock for starting? who has played better in preseason? thanks

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10-01-2003, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1
hi guys. i'm curious if you think HEDBERG could become the starter or do you feel CLOUTIER is more of a lock for starting? who has played better in preseason? thanks
Yes.

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10-01-2003, 03:36 PM
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It's Cloutier's job to lose I think.

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10-01-2003, 03:37 PM
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Hooked on phonics, it worked for me.
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Everyone with the chorus now !!!!

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10-01-2003, 03:38 PM
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- i could see Hedberg taking over #1, but i doubt it would happen.
- Cloutier is a lock to start unless injuries or freak happenings change that.
- it's hard to tell who's been better when Hedberg's only played 1 game and most of a period compared to Cloutier's 3 or 4 games... however Cloutier hasn't had a very good start to the pre-season. from what i've seen in camp, Cloutier has been the better of the two.

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Old
10-01-2003, 04:17 PM
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Hedberg does have superior puck handling ability and this is great for the pk as well as helping the defence make that 'rush' up the ice.

I'm going to commit here and say that Hedberg outshines Cloutier by the spring... maybe even earlier.

 
Old
10-03-2003, 06:40 PM
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what do you guys think the game split will be between them?

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10-03-2003, 06:58 PM
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10-03-2003, 09:35 PM
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I laughed myself off my chair watching that purple hippo.
Hedberg should prove his worth and push Cloutier to a higher level.

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10-03-2003, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingTY
what do you guys think the game split will be between them?
Myself, I think the game split will be at least 55/25 for Cloutier (barring injury). And no, Hedberg will not be the starter by Christmas, or the starter by April, or the starter in the playoffs.

I think everyone here is *vastly* over-rating Hedberg. The guy had an ok playoff run, which was on a damn good Penguins team with Mario, Jagr, Straka, Kovalev et al. Because of the stupid playoff system, as a #6 seed they faced a soft touch in the first round in #3 Washington, who actually had less wins than them. In the second round, because of the Ottawa upset, they ended up facing #5 Buffalo, who had only 2 points more than Pittsburgh on the season.

And that was it for his "mystical" playoff run. As soon as they faced a real team in Jersey, they got blown away in 5 games. And lets face it, neither Buffalo or Washington are known for their stellar playoff history. This is no more impressive than Dan's series win against St. Louis.

He followed that up with a throughly average season, didn't make the playoffs, followed by last year where he was the *third* best goalie on Pittsburgh, and got tossed aside by them this offseason.

And a bunch of folks here would just gladly hand him the starters job on this resume.

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10-03-2003, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Myself, I think the game split will be at least 55/25 for Cloutier (barring injury). And no, Hedberg will not be the starter by Christmas, or the starter by April, or the starter in the playoffs.

I think everyone here is *vastly* over-rating Hedberg. The guy had an ok playoff run, which was on a damn good Penguins team with Mario, Jagr, Straka, Kovalev et al. Because of the stupid playoff system, as a #6 seed they faced a soft touch in the first round in #3 Washington, who actually had less wins than them. In the second round, because of the Ottawa upset, they ended up facing #5 Buffalo, who had only 2 points more than Pittsburgh on the season.

And that was it for his "mystical" playoff run. As soon as they faced a real team in Jersey, they got blown away in 5 games. And lets face it, neither Buffalo or Washington are known for their stellar playoff history. This is no more impressive than Dan's series win against St. Louis.

He followed that up with a throughly average season, didn't make the playoffs, followed by last year where he was the *third* best goalie on Pittsburgh, and got tossed aside by them this offseason.

And a bunch of folks here would just gladly hand him the starters job on this resume.
Eh, to say that Penguins team was stacked is off the mark. They had one great scoring line (Straka-Lemieux-Jagr), a solid second line (Lang-Hrdina-Kovalev) and absolutely nothing else. A young Morozov played on the third line, but he wasn't very good back then (5G, 14A in 66 games that season) and their #1 defenceman was...Josef Melichar. The team got routinely outshot and Hedberg was the only reason they got as far as they did. That said, yeah, it was an anomaly considering the rest of his career, and I don't expect him to threaten for the starter's job.

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10-04-2003, 06:59 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
I think everyone here is *vastly* over-rating Hedberg. The guy had an ok playoff run, which was on a damn good Penguins team with Mario, Jagr, Straka, Kovalev et al. Because of the stupid playoff system, as a #6 seed they faced a soft touch in the first round in #3 Washington, who actually had less wins than them. In the second round, because of the Ottawa upset, they ended up facing #5 Buffalo, who had only 2 points more than Pittsburgh on the season.
And you are swinging the other way and *vastly* underrating what he did in those playoffs. First of all, did you watch those games or are you again just looking at a stat sheet and team records. If you actually did watch those games, Hedberg stood on his head during that run and was amazing. Don't try and minimize what he actually accomplished that year.

So if you want to talk stats and record let's take a look at what hockeydb has for that season (great site, BTW)

First off, both Washington and Pittsburgh finished of with 96 points that year, and the reason Pitt ended up with 1 (yes only 1, another exaggeration on your part) more win than the Caps was because Hedberg was practically unbeatable down the stretch. Second, that was a Buffalo team that had Hasek in his prime and was just coming off a big upset of the Sens. Hardly a soft touch. The East was stacked that year. They had 5 teams with 100+ points.

Now, having said all that, you are correct in saying people are quick to jump on the Hedberg bandwagon, but that is understandable given the goaltending this team has received the last 4 playoff seasons. Remember how much Cloutiers stats improved coming from a horrible Tampa team to Vancouver? I expect Hedberg's stats will take an equally impressive jump, but at least he has performed well in the playoffs once in his career.

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Old
10-04-2003, 08:23 AM
  #13
LaVal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
I think everyone here is *vastly* over-rating Hedberg. The guy had an ok playoff run, which was on a damn good Penguins team with Mario, Jagr, Straka, Kovalev et al. Because of the stupid playoff system, as a #6 seed they faced a soft touch in the first round in #3 Washington, who actually had less wins than them. In the second round, because of the Ottawa upset, they ended up facing #5 Buffalo, who had only 2 points more than Pittsburgh on the season.
people may be overrating Hedberg, but to say he had an "ok" playoff run is incorrect. the team had absolutely no defense and Hedberg carried the team through the stretch. Hedberg faced an average of 27 shots per game that came in waves. Pittsburgh barely scored over 2 goals a game (2.1) and it was stellar goaltending that got them as far as they did.

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Old
10-04-2003, 09:55 AM
  #14
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I was actually on here looking for info about Nolan Baumgartner andsaw this thread. I hope you dont mind me adding some Penguins insight.

As a Pens fan who lived through Hedberg's playoff run as well as his instant arrival from trade deadline pickup to playoff starter, I can say that the Moose will do just fine for you guys. I for one was very unhappy that we dealt him away. The pick we got may prove dividends, but with Hedberg you get a great locker room presence, a committed team player, and someone who can definitely push Cloutier.

Minnesota benefited from two goalies competing and striving to better each other, and having someone who has proven he can win in the NHL with a less than spectacular defensive corps will only be a help to Cloutier.

I wish we had Hedberg here to mentor Marc-Andre Fleury, but I'm not the Pittsburgh GM. I will follow Vancouver a lot more this year not just for the way they play, but to see how the Moose plays. He has a great chance now to play on a genuine contender and I hope he succeeds.

Finally, his playoff run was great as he went from playing with the Manitoba Moose to playing in the Stanley Cup Playoffs facing quality goaltenders in each series (beating Kolzig and Hasek and losing to Brodeur). Sure the Pens had some great scorers which were needed but considering what Hedberg had in front of him, he deserves as much credit for the run as the star names Pittsburgh had for that year. The quick exit vs. New Jersey was in large part to the great defensive game Jersey plays that smothered the Pens offense to the extent that once they had gotten a lead, it was hard to see the Pens coming back from any deficit.

I wont predict Hedberg will replace Cloutier, but he will definitely contribute to your club in many ways on and off the ice.

Good luck to you this year Vancouver. Now am off to find out more Baumgartner info

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