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KLow and value

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Old
10-03-2003, 06:17 PM
  #1
Meanashell11
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KLow and value

I have seen so many threads on Comrie and what we are going to get in return if/when Low trades him and I have to say after the trading he did in the last few years I am worried he is just going to get picked off again. Look at what Ott got for Yashin and then look at what Low got for weight. Then look at the trade with the islanders last year, agreeed its still early but janne was/is a great defenceman and it seems that for Low to "win" a trade lately there has to be a lot of hope that things pan out. I am woried he will trade Comrie and the retun will be "what???". He just doesnt give me a lot of faith lately.

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10-03-2003, 06:27 PM
  #2
hockeyaddict101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11
I have seen so many threads on Comrie and what we are going to get in return if/when Low trades him and I have to say after the trading he did in the last few years I am worried he is just going to get picked off again. Look at what Ott got for Yashin and then look at what Low got for weight. Then look at the trade with the islanders last year, agreeed its still early but janne was/is a great defenceman and it seems that for Low to "win" a trade lately there has to be a lot of hope that things pan out. I am woried he will trade Comrie and the retun will be "what???". He just doesnt give me a lot of faith lately.
I am not convinced yet that he lost the Janne trade. Time will tell. As for the Weight trade he was a UFA at the end of the year and was picking the teams he would go too. I don't think you can compare the Comrie situation to the Weight situation.

And a few years later and suddenly the Weight trade doesn't look as bad as it originally did either. St. Louis has a nine million dollar hockey player (or is it 8 million)? that they would like to get rid of but no one will take him because he was overrated in Edmonton. The Oilers have another player that they acquired in the Hecht deal (part of the Weight trade) Stoll that is going to be a solid player. We would have had Weight for one more year folks thats it!

I have a lot of faith in the direction this team is going. We will have the youngest team in the NHL this season, and are perfectly positioned for after the labour war.

I think a lot of Lowe bashers will be eating a lot of crow in a few years!

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10-03-2003, 06:34 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11
I have seen so many threads on Comrie and what we are going to get in return if/when Low trades him and I have to say after the trading he did in the last few years I am worried he is just going to get picked off again. Look at what Ott got for Yashin and then look at what Low got for weight. Then look at the trade with the islanders last year, agreeed its still early but janne was/is a great defenceman and it seems that for Low to "win" a trade lately there has to be a lot of hope that things pan out. I am woried he will trade Comrie and the retun will be "what???". He just doesnt give me a lot of faith lately.
I can agree a bit with that, just I wouldn't call the Yashin trade a bad one for the Sens....it can only get better the better that Spezza gets.

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10-03-2003, 06:38 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
I am not convinced yet that he lost the Janne trade. Time will tell. As for the Weight trade he was a UFA at the end of the year and was picking the teams he would go too. I don't think you can compare the Comrie situation to the Weight situation.

And a few years later and suddenly the Weight trade doesn't look as bad as it originally did either. St. Louis has a nine million dollar hockey player (or is it 8 million)? that they would like to get rid of but no one will take him because he was overrated in Edmonton. The Oilers have another player that they acquired in the Hecht deal (part of the Weight trade) Stoll that is going to be a solid player. We would have had Weight for one more year folks thats it!

I have a lot of faith in the direction this team is going. We will have the youngest team in the NHL this season, and are perfectly positioned for after the labour war.

I think a lot of Lowe bashers will be eating a lot of crow in a few years!
I agree. I have been most impressed with Isbister all camp and Torres recently as well. I think we will have to wait and see what happens this year before deciding who won that trade.

We didn't have a lot of leverage with Weight but we do with Comrie and Lowe knows it. He can sit Comrie for 2 years before he is eligible for arbitration. Now I don't think that would be advisable, but Lowe has put his foot down and drawn a line in the sand on the Comrie thing and I respect him for it. I think that IF comrie goes, we will get a fairly nice return. I think Lowe might be waiting to see how we start the year with Dvo Issy and Hemmer all ready to break out. He can better determine what our needs are then..

I , for one, am not worried at all

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10-03-2003, 06:49 PM
  #5
FacelessButcher
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Weight trade-

To St.Louis:
Doug Weight
Michael Riesen

To Edmonton:
Marty Reasoner
Jochen Hecht
Jan Horachek


To Buffalo:
Jochen Hecht

To Edm:
2nd round pick 2002 (Jeff Deslauriers)
2nd round pick 2002 (Jarret Stoll)

Well the fact of the matter is we could not of kept Weight for long and I think Kevin Lowe made the best out of the trade that he could. We got a pretty good 3rd line checker in Reasoner and Stoll looks to be an integral part of the Oilers future, so if Deslauriers can become the Oilers no.1 goaltender in the future I would be more than pleased with the trade overall. Riesen and Horachek don't apear to be amounting to much so I will call them non-factors.

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10-03-2003, 07:23 PM
  #6
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I think Lowe's done slightly better than average in his trades. The Weight trade was made because:

1. The offer the Oilers were preparing for Weight (about 5+ based on rumours) was useless the day Roenick signed his 8 million dollar deal.

2. Weight was a rental to every team but Detroit and St. Louis, the team's he said he would sign long term with when a trade was completed. Remember, the Oilers got that package ONLY after it was clear Weight was staying.

The Niinimaa trade will look awful if Isbister doesn't turn out, and like highway robbery if he does step forward. I know he's not a prospect, but he is a power forward and those guys take awhile (remember Guerin?).

The Dvorak deal was a draw the day it was made, probably will be three years from now. It was a case of Lowe saving dollars and not losing too much value on the trade in.

If he were to deal Comrie, imo we could expect a package back that might not be full value but would be close. Taffe + someone or Stefan/Exelby, something like that.

Lowe's biggest accomplishment comes from his ability to use the farm system wisely. Let me ask you something:

Would Mike Comrie have been an Oiler if Slats had been GM when he went to the WHL? Pisani? SARNO?

The day Lowe went to the GM's office the Oilers procurement style changed. They now get every penny out of their system/draft they can, and trade off the assets that are too expensive.

So far, he's done a damn good job imo.

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10-03-2003, 07:33 PM
  #7
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Let's think back...


Hamrlik for Brewer, Green, and 2nd (Winchester).
-cause: Oilers would lose Hamrlik before long anyway.
-gamble: Brewer could live up to potential that made him a high draft pick.
-prognosis: qualified success.

Guerin for Carter, 2nd, option to switch firsts.
-cause: Guerin soon to be gone.
-gamble: Carter could fill same role at a lower price.
-prognosis: a huge win for Lowe

Weight, Riesen for Hecht, Reasoner, Horacek.
-cause: Weight due immediate, huge raise.
-gamble: Hecht's potential to become a quality 2-way forward, Reasoner's potential.
-prognosis: not very good, but under the circumstances...

Tom Poti and Rem Murray for Mike York, 4th.
-cause: Poti no longer welcome. Murray becoming pricey, redundant.
-gamble: basically, just that Poti doesn't crank it up and make you look dumb later.
-prognosis: Tom Poti's produced big offense in New York and they STILL hate him. York has been a quality addition to our top 6.

Hecht for 2 2nds (DesLauriers, Stoll)
-cause: something went very wrong between Hecht and the Oil; Hecht scored only 2 goals after Groundhog Day.
-cause: DesLauriers was a consensus first rounder, and still on the table. The Oilers wanted him.
-gamble: Hecht's potential vs JDD and Stoll's potential.
-prognosis: way to soon to tell, but Hecht didn't exactly make us miss him last season, even before bizarre Van Gogh incident.

Carter, Pisa for Dvorak, Cross.
-cause: see Guerin.
-gamble: Dvorak has been struggling since massive knee injury, but has scored 30 at the NHL level before, might regain that form.
-prognosis: too early to be sure, but Dvorak has been spectacular during limited time as an Oiler.

Niinimaa, 2nd for Isbister and Torres.
-cause: add size, toughness to small group of forwards.
-cause: Niinimaa's injuries are becoming more and more frequent, and might reduce his value in the future.
-gamble: Torres' potential; Isbisters' ability to put it together.
-prognosis: too early to be sure how much we'll miss Niinimaa, Isbister's been inconsistent during brief time in Edmonton, way to early to talk about Torres.

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Old
10-03-2003, 07:53 PM
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How come no one mentioned Dopita yet? That is the only one I will call a definite Lowe failure we gave up a 3rd pick and possibly 5th pick (it was conditional don't know what the condition was) and that one really did not pan out in fairness absolutely everyone knew it was a crap-shoot to begin with and Lowe thought it was worth the risk and took the chance but it was still a blunder because it didn't pay off but if it did of course I would have to call him a genius.

Lowe seems to be drafting better than Sather did in his later GM days and I think that should be mentioned in evaluation most are too early to tell because he just got the job but it looks a lot more promising than some of our older drafts did.

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10-03-2003, 07:56 PM
  #9
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I'm going to agree with some very astute people here.

There is not another man in the hockey world, that I would rather have making the decisions for our team. The Oilers are in his heart and soul and he will always do the best he can for us.

There is not now, nor has there ever been, a GM who never made a "bad" trade or drafted a "never will be".

Not sure if any of you have eaten crow before. Tastes a little like chicken and a lot like humble pie. However, I've been told that it's quite bitter if you choke on it.

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Old
10-03-2003, 07:59 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
How come no one mentioned Dopita yet?
I was going from memory, and Dopita was just so forgettable.

I also forgot the Grier trade, in which I think Lowe got good value.

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Old
10-03-2003, 08:58 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
How come no one mentioned Dopita yet? That is the only one I will call a definite Lowe failure we gave up a 3rd pick and possibly 5th pick (it was conditional don't know what the condition was) and that one really did not pan out in fairness absolutely everyone knew it was a crap-shoot to begin with and Lowe thought it was worth the risk and took the chance but it was still a blunder because it didn't pay off but if it did of course I would have to call him a genius.

Lowe seems to be drafting better than Sather did in his later GM days and I think that should be mentioned in evaluation most are too early to tell because he just got the job but it looks a lot more promising than some of our older drafts did.
The Dopita experiment, the 5th pick never materilized it would only factor in if Dopita signed a new deal with the Oilers.

Yeah it cost money and Lowe took a chance. I don't consider a 3rd round draft pick a huge loss. Sometimes you take chances and lose. I never had any problem with that one.

Lowe is going to have trades or moves that are mistakes, every GM has some of those. Sather had his share of bad trades and questionable moves. But IMO on the whole Lowe has done an excellent job especially with restocking our prospects which even the most adamant Sather supporter has to admit was a mess when Glen left to bring the Rangers back to glory.

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Old
10-03-2003, 09:35 PM
  #12
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When Slats was here, I think everybody in the league would have considered him one of the top five GMs in the league. I mean like him now or not, but he had a brutal drafting staff (partly his fault for not making changes) and still managed to get the team into the playoffs on a tight budget through good deals (See Arnott for Guerin!)
Now I think we have a GM who would probably be a universal top five GM in the league. He gets the more bang for his buck then any other NHL team. The only other team who has had comparable success (or greater) with the same $ situation is the Wild, but they are an old veteran team and IMO don't have a bright future at all! The Oilers DO.

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10-03-2003, 09:39 PM
  #13
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The funny thing is when Slats got the team into the playoffs, he was a genious. When Lowe gets the team into the playoffs, he gets criticized. It doesn't matter what he does, he'll get critiiczed.

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10-03-2003, 11:08 PM
  #14
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For those of you that think KLO is a bad GM, chew on this...

G. SATHER- traded M. Satan for Barry Moore and Craig Millar
G. SATHER- Signed Kasperitis and Holik to about 65% more than they're worth.
B. CLARKE- traded a 1st,2nd and 3rd along with prospect M. Oullette for A. Oates and then let Oates go for nothing a few months later.

We might not have the best GM, but all his deals make sense is some way, shape or form. Until the financial climate evens out and the CBA is settled, this is going to be the reality that is Edmonton hockey, lets just pray that the CBA gets straightened out before we lose Hemsky.

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10-04-2003, 02:26 AM
  #15
hockeyaddict101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
For those of you that think KLO is a bad GM, chew on this...

G. SATHER- traded M. Satan for Barry Moore and Craig Millar
G. SATHER- Signed Kasperitis and Holik to about 65% more than they're worth.
B. CLARKE- traded a 1st,2nd and 3rd along with prospect M. Oullette for A. Oates and then let Oates go for nothing a few months later.

We might not have the best GM, but all his deals make sense is some way, shape or form. Until the financial climate evens out and the CBA is settled, this is going to be the reality that is Edmonton hockey, lets just pray that the CBA gets straightened out before we lose Hemsky.
No chance of that, Hemsky still has one more year of his 3 year deal next year (whenever that may be).

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10-04-2003, 03:31 AM
  #16
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I was not trying to say Low was a disaster, and wrt the Yashin trade I was making the point that they extracted full value from the islanders. I am just concerned that we sit here and think what is fair value for comrie and when the deals go down we are all shocked. Every one of them things have to work out almost perfect or we've been hosed. Also, the comrie situation is to a degree related to the carter trade, comrie was not happy. But in the end if I have to have somebody other than myself look after the Oilers, Low is top of the list. I just dont think we will get anywhere near what we can all agree is a fair value in return, at least up front. It will probably be the case where a number of stars have to align for it to be a good trade for us.

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10-04-2003, 03:44 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
I can agree a bit with that, just I wouldn't call the Yashin trade a bad one for the Sens....it can only get better the better that Spezza gets.
When the trade first was announced... Alot of fans were scratching their heads...Today, the trade is great for Ottawa...I saw Yashin alot here in Ottawa and at first glanced, the Sens got hosed because they didn't know what they were getting in Chara, Spezza was 18 years old and Muckalt was a 3rd line player...After last year some Ottawa fans were telling that Chara vs Yashin would have been a fair trade based on the value Chara brings to the team...Spezza is just going to be a very huge bonus...

Who knows how these trades turn out...Personally, I like Guerin better than Carter, but by trading Guerin, we got a chance to draft Hemsky...The Weight deal look lopsided...I haven't seen Stoll play yet but by all accounts on this board, he's going to be very goog, future captain maybe....

Same goes for Ninnimma...I Isbiter and Torres play the way they have played in the pre-season, how can anyone say we lost that trade...

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10-04-2003, 04:08 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11
I am just concerned that we sit here and think what is fair value for comrie and when the deals go down we are all shocked.
Excellent point. I think most of the time fans are outraged because they/we overrate their team's players. I'm not picking on you, I do it, most fans do it.

Let me ask you 2 questions:

1. How GOOD is Comrie right now?

2. What IS Comrie's value right now?


Okay, let's try to answer the first question. Comrie has played in the NHL in three different seasons now. Here's his totals each season as if he'd played all 82 games:

00-01 16-28-44 (20)
01-02 33-27-60 (21)
02-03 24-37-61 (22)

That's as impressive a debut by an Oilers draft in a decade, and to say Comrie has his rabid followers is an understatement. Expectations of Comrie are very high in Edmonton, and that comes only when a player delivers. Comrie has delivered in his first three seasons.

I would say that Mike Comrie qualifies as one of the 30 best centers in the NHL at this time. He ranks in with the Briere crowd, and we could probably throw in names like York, Drury, Langkow. I think Brad Richards is easily a step above. Is that fair?

A team trading for Comrie might expect 25 goals, 60 points, a guy who competes every night, and who takes some penalties because he has a temper and does retaliate. Comrie is not a plus defensively, but brings alot to any team. Is THAT fair?


The second question is harder to answer: what is Comrie's trade value right now?

I think it's less than most Oiler fans think. Although Comrie is sure to score 25 goals this season, he also has a huge contract problem hanging over his head. If a team trades for him, they'll want to know what kind of price they have to pay.

Also, Comrie is small, and although the NHL has lots of small forwards right now who are performing well, it's still a consideration when looking to make a deal. Small forwards often get less than full value in return. A team with even one small forward would be hesitant to add another.

What did Phoenix get for Briere? What about Mike York? Would you be happy getting Tom Poti for Mike Comrie? Marc Savard's stats are somewhat similar to Comrie's and they got very little for him (I hesitate to use him as a comp, because people get upset. Let me just say imo Savard is a damn good hockey player, except for the attitude).

In any sport, there are guys who are dealt for more than fair value, and others who get less in return. In baseball, a 23 year old kid with a 95mph fastball is extremely valuable, although a little lefty with an 85mph fastball may be getting better results.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Oilers dealt Mike Comrie to Phoenix for Jeff Taffe and a solid defenseman. But I don't think they'd get someone like Vaananen as well, because that exceeds Comrie's value.

So yes, I think many people will be all over Kevin Lowe when he trades Comrie. But if we look at precedent (Briere), then that should give us a good guideline. Chris Gratton.

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10-04-2003, 05:38 AM
  #19
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I'd be happy getting Tom Poti for Mike Comrie but I am sure 99% of Edmonton would not feel the same way

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10-04-2003, 07:27 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
How come no one mentioned Dopita yet? That is the only one I will call a definite Lowe failure we gave up a 3rd pick and possibly 5th pick (it was conditional don't know what the condition was) and that one really did not pan out in fairness absolutely everyone knew it was a crap-shoot to begin with and Lowe thought it was worth the risk and took the chance but it was still a blunder because it didn't pay off but if it did of course I would have to call him a genius.
I thought the condition was if he signed a contract with Edmonton. Obviously, he didn't. :-)

As you said though, Lowe knew it was a gamble, we knew it was a gamble, Bobby Clarke knew it was a gamble, the entire league knew it. IMO, Lowe could only win on that. A third and a fifth is not at all a steep price to pay for a big centreman who can score; a third is not a huge price to pay for a player who doesn't pan out - hell, most draft picks, however they're spent (in trade or by using them at the draft) don't pan out.

So, Lowe didn't win on that one, we can't argue that; I argue he didn't lose either.

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10-04-2003, 08:16 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
When the trade first was announced... Alot of fans were scratching their heads...Today, the trade is great for Ottawa...I saw Yashin alot here in Ottawa and at first glanced, the Sens got hosed because they didn't know what they were getting in Chara, Spezza was 18 years old and Muckalt was a 3rd line player...After last year some Ottawa fans were telling that Chara vs Yashin would have been a fair trade based on the value Chara brings to the team...Spezza is just going to be a very huge bonus...

Who knows how these trades turn out...Personally, I like Guerin better than Carter, but by trading Guerin, we got a chance to draft Hemsky...The Weight deal look lopsided...I haven't seen Stoll play yet but by all accounts on this board, he's going to be very goog, future captain maybe....

Same goes for Ninnimma...I Isbiter and Torres play the way they have played in the pre-season, how can anyone say we lost that trade...
I think that is exactly it.... both EDM and Ottawa were in similar situations at the same time. Both had superstar centres who were demanding a trade... One with better leadership, the other better offence... both asking huge $$$.... one a year away from UFA, but one carrying the stigma of walking out under contract, and not having played for a full year in the NHL.

Basically, the way I look at it (and I am a huge Lowe fan), Lowe allowed himself to get backed into a corner, whereas Muckler did not. Lowe was in a haste to make the deal, and Muckler wasn't.... Lowe allowed his cards (the fact Weight only wanted to play for 2 teams) dictate his bidding, and Muckler bluffed.

I chalk it up to inexperience, but no-one will convince me that Lowe got full value, especially when one sees the return that Buffalo and Ottawa got from Milbury's quest for 2 centremen (Peca and Yashin).

I certainly hope that Lowe has learned to be a little more defiant. I mean he should have looked at Weight's desire for Det and Stl as the other team's problem, not his. Fact of the matter is that he made the deal so quickly after the Roenick signing that he didn't even allow time for the bidding to drive the price up.

On the positive, he has been holding onto Comrie despite months of rumours. Hopefully he is putting the squeeze on to extract full value this time.

I guess if I have a mild criticism of Lowe, it is that he seems to honest... when he knows he is in a weaker position, he over-reacts to its impact at the bargaining table. Sather and other more experienced GM's don't/didn't seem to let that phase them. On the positive side, he can learn that with experience, his judgement of talent is first tier, and the way he seems to have long range plan to maximizing his assets (Guerin-Carter-Dvorak a great example) is unparallelled.

PS: Lowetide --> I like the general argument, but I would strongly disagree with the Briere comparable. Comrie's leadership in his first full season did not go unnoticed around the league. And his attitude problems have more to do with pride and confidence than being spoiled or selfish (Savard). He essentially has his back up b/c his pride was insulted by Lowe, and while I think he should suck it up, I don't think it hurts his value in the same way Savard's escapades did.

I'd say Comrie is a closer comparable to Richards or Drury than he his to Briere or Savard.

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10-04-2003, 08:16 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
So yes, I think many people will be all over Kevin Lowe when he trades Comrie. But if we look at precedent (Briere), then that should give us a good guideline. Chris Gratton.
By that logic, then, Eric Brewer's trade value is something less than Mike Sillinger.

After all, if we discount youth and potential (which you are obviously doing by comparing Comrie to Briere) then Brewer < Numminen. Therefore, if Numminen was dealt for Sillinger (which he was), then there's no way Brewer could be dealt for a player that good.

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10-04-2003, 08:37 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksoil
I think that is exactly it.... both EDM and Ottawa were in similar situations at the same time. Both had superstar centres who were demanding a trade... One with better leadership, the other better offence... both asking huge $$$.... one a year away from UFA, but one carrying the stigma of walking out under contract, and not having played for a full year in the NHL.

Basically, the way I look at it (and I am a huge Lowe fan), Lowe allowed himself to get backed into a corner, whereas Muckler did not. Lowe was in a haste to make the deal, and Muckler wasn't.... Lowe allowed his cards (the fact Weight only wanted to play for 2 teams) dictate his bidding, and Muckler bluffed.

I chalk it up to inexperience, but no-one will convince me that Lowe got full value, especially when one sees the return that Buffalo and Ottawa got from Milbury's quest for 2 centremen (Peca and Yashin).

I certainly hope that Lowe has learned to be a little more defiant. I mean he should have looked at Weight's desire for Det and Stl as the other team's problem, not his. Fact of the matter is that he made the deal so quickly after the Roenick signing that he didn't even allow time for the bidding to drive the price up.

On the positive, he has been holding onto Comrie despite months of rumours. Hopefully he is putting the squeeze on to extract full value this time.

I guess if I have a mild criticism of Lowe, it is that he seems to honest... when he knows he is in a weaker position, he over-reacts to its impact at the bargaining table. Sather and other more experienced GM's don't/didn't seem to let that phase them. On the positive side, he can learn that with experience, his judgement of talent is first tier, and the way he seems to have long range plan to maximizing his assets (Guerin-Carter-Dvorak a great example) is unparallelled.

PS: Lowetide --> I like the general argument, but I would strongly disagree with the Briere comparable. Comrie's leadership in his first full season did not go unnoticed around the league. And his attitude problems have more to do with pride and confidence than being spoiled or selfish (Savard). He essentially has his back up b/c his pride was insulted by Lowe, and while I think he should suck it up, I don't think it hurts his value in the same way Savard's escapades did.

I'd say Comrie is a closer comparable to Richards or Drury than he his to Briere or Savard.
What everyone is forgeting is Weight was one year away from UFA and Yashin wasn't. Weight also played GM saying where he wanted to go and Yashin didn't. There's the big difference. If Lowe could have traded Weight where he wanted to, it wouldn't have been St. Louis.

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10-04-2003, 08:55 AM
  #24
oilers_guy_eddie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11
I was not trying to say Low was a disaster, and wrt the Yashin trade I was making the point that they extracted full value from the islanders. I am just concerned that we sit here and think what is fair value for comrie and when the deals go down we are all shocked.
I think Oiler fans' expectations in a Comrie deal have already taken a huge adjustment. Look at some of the ideas that have been floated around by Oiler fans- returns like Patrik Stefan + Exelby, or Nick Boynton, or Lundmark + Tyutin. I think that if people had suggested trades like this before the trade deadline, Oiler fans would have been up in arms over it. That these are starting to sound like good deals says a lot about how our outlook has already changed. I think we've already somewhat prepared ourselves for a disappointing return. We might still be disappointed, but I think it has sunk in that we're not getting Havlat or Spezza or anything remotely great.

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10-04-2003, 09:53 AM
  #25
Lowetide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraque27
By that logic, then, Eric Brewer's trade value is something less than Mike Sillinger.

After all, if we discount youth and potential (which you are obviously doing by comparing Comrie to Briere) then Brewer < Numminen. Therefore, if Numminen was dealt for Sillinger (which he was), then there's no way Brewer could be dealt for a player that good.

As with any conversation, when you draw a line in the sand it's open to opposite viewpoints. What would you suggest in terms of fair value? Thanks in advance.

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