HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Kypreos: OTT shopping Spezza to the West Part II

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-15-2014, 08:45 AM
  #1
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kramerica Industries
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,951
vCash: 500
Kypreos: OTT shopping Spezza to the West Part II

Continue here.

SoupNazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 09:46 AM
  #2
Alexbarr92
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
vCash: 500
Okay let's first of all look at what spezza is value wise. Where would he fit in on other teams

Boston has Bergeron, and krejci: spezza 3rd line centre
Buffalo: 1st line centre
Detroit: datsyuk,zetterberg so spezza 3rd line centre
Florida: for sure first centre
Montreal: has 6 centres
Ottawa: in ottawa this year he was 2-3 rd line centre
Tampa Bay: 2nd line centre behind stamkos could be behind drouin as well
Toronto: somewhere around nizam so potential 2nd line centre
Philly: behind giroux
Pittsburg: behind Crosby and Malkin

Basically all this means is that spezza will get the value of a second line centre

A recent trade had gaborik going to LA for frattin + 2nd + condition 3rd

So if he were to get traded to say Winnipeg you'd get Dustin byfuglian and a 3rd nothing more

Alexbarr92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 09:53 AM
  #3
Mr Invidious
Registered User
 
Mr Invidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
Okay let's first of all look at what spezza is value wise. Where would he fit in on other teams

Boston has Bergeron, and krejci: spezza 3rd line centre
Buffalo: 1st line centre
Detroit: datsyuk,zetterberg so spezza 3rd line centre
Florida: for sure first centre
Montreal: has 6 centres
Ottawa: in ottawa this year he was 2-3 rd line centre
Tampa Bay: 2nd line centre behind stamkos could be behind drouin as well
Toronto: somewhere around nizam so potential 2nd line centre
Philly: behind giroux
Pittsburg: behind Crosby and Malkin

Basically all this means is that spezza will get the value of a second line centre

A recent trade had gaborik going to LA for frattin + 2nd + condition 3rd

So if he were to get traded to say Winnipeg you'd get Dustin byfuglian and a 3rd nothing more


3rd line? I wouldn't even call him a 2nd line. He was like a 1B. At worst.

And you just listed a bunch of teams that either don't have a huge need for a 1C or you just blatantly lied. Do you honestly think Spezza wouldn't be 1C on Toronto? Really?

Also, your logic is flawed. You can't compare him to Gaborik. Age, injury history and current contract all have to be taken into account. And why Gaborik? Gaborik is a winger.

Mr Invidious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 09:55 AM
  #4
Mika Zibanejad
Free the Oppressed
 
Mika Zibanejad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Palestine
Country: Palestine
Posts: 4,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
Okay let's first of all look at what spezza is value wise. Where would he fit in on other teams

Boston has Bergeron, and krejci: spezza 3rd line centre He would be the first centre when it comes to Offence
Buffalo: 1st line centre
Detroit: datsyuk,zetterberg so spezza 3rd line centre
Florida: for sure first centre
Montreal: has 6 centres
Ottawa: in ottawa this year he was 2-3 rd line centre
Tampa Bay: 2nd line centre behind stamkos could be behind drouin as well
Toronto: somewhere around nizam so potential 2nd line centre
Philly: behind giroux
Pittsburg: behind Crosby and Malkin

Basically all this means is that spezza will get the value of a second line centre

A recent trade had gaborik going to LA for frattin + 2nd + condition 3rd

So if he were to get traded to say Winnipeg you'd get Dustin byfuglian and a 3rd nothing more



the bolded and the fact u didnt list the 21 other teams along with the major players in Anaheim, and ST Louis clearly dictates you don't know what you are talking about.

Mika Zibanejad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 09:59 AM
  #5
Nemeth
Mo Money Mo Problems
 
Nemeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,850
vCash: 500
Spezza for Chiasson + 2nd

On condition there are prior negotiations for a 3 year extension.

Nemeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:02 AM
  #6
Mr Invidious
Registered User
 
Mr Invidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemeth View Post
Spezza for Chiasson + 2nd

On condition there are prior negotiations for a 3 year extension.
I'm a big fan of Chiasson, but if we could sign and trade Spezza for 3 years we'd get more than that package.

Mr Invidious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:06 AM
  #7
ForeverFlameFan
HF/CP Middleman
 
ForeverFlameFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,738
vCash: 863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
Okay let's first of all look at what spezza is value wise. Where would he fit in on other teams

Boston has Bergeron, and krejci: spezza 3rd line centre - Boston has no need, they would rather sign Iginla.
Buffalo: 1st line centre - Spezza wouldn't want to be a part of a full on rebuild.
Detroit: datsyuk,zetterberg so spezza 3rd line centre - Detroit, like Boston, has no reason to sign Spezza. Spezza would hate 3rd line minutes.
Florida: for sure first centre - Sure he'd get first line minutes, but another rebuilding team he wouldn't consider.
Montreal: has 6 centres - So why even suggest Montreal as a possible location for J. Spezza?
Ottawa: in ottawa this year he was 2-3 rd line centre - An Ottawa fan can correct me if I am wrong, wasn't Spezza 1st line minutes, or was it Turris?
Tampa Bay: 2nd line centre behind stamkos could be behind drouin as well - Sure... But Tampa bay has stacked offense, they need defenseman.
Toronto: somewhere around nizam so potential 2nd line centre - No, Spezza would be a 1st line center for the Leafs. But why would Ottawa trade him to one of their most biggest rivals?
Philly: behind giroux - Philly's cap issue is so bad, they already have centers too.
Pittsburg: behind Crosby and Malkin - Again, cap issues.

Basically all this means is that spezza will get the value of a second line centre - Finally, you said something right. He is a top 6 center, can be slotted in as a first or second center.

A recent trade had gaborik going to LA for frattin + 2nd + condition 3rd

So if he were to get traded to say Winnipeg you'd get Dustin byfuglian and a 3rd nothing more - No he wouldn't. And Winnipeg doesn't even need him.
Just concluding your post doesn't really make sense. It looked like you picked these teams out from a hat and tried to make a logical statement on each one when clearly all those aren't a fit for Spezza (except I don't know the situation with Ottawa).

Anyway, I think the best trading destination for Spezza (and only picking Western teams) is St. Louis, Minnesota, or even a fresh start in Nashville.

ForeverFlameFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:10 AM
  #8
Alexbarr92
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senz View Post
the bolded and the fact u didnt list the 21 other teams along with the major players in Anaheim, and ST Louis clearly dictates you don't know what you are talking about.
To say that I didn't take the teams into consideration umm last time I checked ottawa plays in the Atlantic division comparing him to his peers that have had an identical schedule as him seems reasonable. Winnipeg is in need of a centre ice man and ottawa needs big time help on the blue line

With getting Dustin in return Ottawa now has someone that could play in top 2.. Younger as well

Alexbarr92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:10 AM
  #9
Mr Invidious
Registered User
 
Mr Invidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Based on BMurr's comments, you can pretty much exclude any Eastern conference team from the discussion. It sounds like the organization will move him out West and that certainly makes much more sense with STL, ANA, VAN, CGY and other teams with more prevalent needs for a 1C while moving him out of the division.

Mr Invidious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:11 AM
  #10
Mr Invidious
Registered User
 
Mr Invidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
To say that I didn't take the teams into consideration umm last time I checked ottawa plays in the Atlantic division comparing him to his peers that have had an identical schedule as him seems reasonable. Winnipeg is in need of a centre ice man and ottawa needs big time help on the blue line

With getting Dustin in return Ottawa now has someone that could play in top 2.. Younger as well
This makes less than no sense.

Mr Invidious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:15 AM
  #11
Alexbarr92
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Invidious View Post
This makes less than no sense.
You only get what he is worth here are a lot of positives to his offensive side

However he is a big time defensive liability, and has question marks around his work ethic.. When has a team won with a 1c tht has those issues..

Alexbarr92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:18 AM
  #12
Alexbarr92
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan View Post
Just concluding your post doesn't really make sense. It looked like you picked these teams out from a hat and tried to make a logical statement on each one when clearly all those aren't a fit for Spezza (except I don't know the situation with Ottawa).

Anyway, I think the best trading destination for Spezza (and only picking Western teams) is St. Louis, Minnesota, or even a fresh start in Nashville.
And I didn't say trade him to any team in the Atlantic I said Value, you need to understand value before you can approach another team about trade.

Alexbarr92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:33 AM
  #13
guyzeur
Registered User
 
guyzeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,329
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
To say that I didn't take the teams into consideration umm last time I checked ottawa plays in the Atlantic division comparing him to his peers that have had an identical schedule as him seems reasonable. Winnipeg is in need of a centre ice man and ottawa needs big time help on the blue line

With getting Dustin in return Ottawa now has someone that could play in top 2.. Younger as well
Is this a league with 30 teams? Why wouldn`t you look at the full league and who needs a number centre or a 2nd number 1 centre ?

guyzeur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:34 AM
  #14
guyzeur
Registered User
 
guyzeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,329
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
And I didn't say trade him to any team in the Atlantic I said Value, you need to understand value before you can approach another team about trade.
Why would you compare value of centre that aren't available

guyzeur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:37 AM
  #15
ATdaisuki
invisible
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
Okay let's first of all look at what spezza is value wise. Where would he fit in on other teams
okay. should be fun

Quote:
Boston has Bergeron, and krejci: spezza 3rd line centre
i think ice-time wise he wouldn't be the third line center. he's a better offensive player than those guys, so at even strength he'd be about second in ice time, he'd get all the pp time, and play no pk time. i don't see boston as a destination for spezza, so it's kinda irrelevant to his overall value in my opinion. teams looking to trade for him aren't going to say "but he wouldn't be the undisputed number one center on boston, so i'm not going to give good value for him!"

Quote:
Buffalo: 1st line centre
agreed. again, don't see him going there though.

Quote:
Detroit: datsyuk,zetterberg so spezza 3rd line centre
zetterberg to the wing, silly. likely not a spot he'd be going either though...

Quote:
Florida: for sure first centre
yes. there has been talk of him potentially going there, but i don't think it'd be a good move for florida. they'll be ready to compete just as spezza is exiting his prime.

Quote:
Montreal: has 6 centres
yes, and he'd be the best of them all. he's not going there, so doesn't really affect his value

Quote:
Ottawa: in ottawa this year he was 2-3 rd line centre
no, he was #1/2

Quote:
Tampa Bay: 2nd line centre behind stamkos could be behind drouin as well
wouldn't be behind drouin. if tampa got spezza, drouin would be back on the wing.

again, what's with these spots he's not going to? they don't effect his value at all. i thought we were trying to determine his value. value varies depending on what team he's going to and what role he fills on that team.

Quote:
Toronto: somewhere around nizam so potential 2nd line centre
unless toronto doesn't want to break up the jvr - bozak - kessel line, he'd be the first line center on that team hands down. i doubt we trade him to the leafs (if we could get kadri and gardiner though, i would move him there anyway since 'dat value.)

Quote:
Philly: behind giroux
no arguments here. i thought about philly as a potential landing spot for him, but i don't think their fans would like what i asked for. they don't need him that badly either, so they wouldn't be willing to pay.

Quote:
Pittsburg: behind Crosby and Malkin
obviously

Quote:
Basically all this means is that spezza will get the value of a second line centre
no...

people are going to be paying for an 80 point player. malkin is a second line center. fisher was a second line center. fisher got a 1st and a conditional third i think? i better get murray on the phone with pittsburg. in fact, a malkin for spezza swap might be in order.

as i mentioned earlier, his value is determined by where he'd fit on the team he is being traded to. most of the scenarios you presented, the teams didn't need him, so they wouldn't move pieces for him anyway, but your evaluation was also off on most of them. he's a 1b center at worst on most teams.

your logic is is very faulty and i hope my sarcasm detector is just broken this morning.

Quote:
A recent trade had gaborik going to LA for frattin + 2nd + condition 3rd
deadline deal. spezza will hopefully come with an extention, or at least an extension in place (team has talked to spezza and has a framework for a deal). i'd be asking for similar deals to what carter and richards got. sure, they were younger, but they were never as good as spezza.

Quote:
So if he were to get traded to say Winnipeg you'd get Dustin byfuglian and a 3rd nothing more
i'd ask for little + byfuglien + 1st for spezza + smith + wiercioch + 2nd 2014 + 2nd 2015.

i most likely wouldn't get it, but i'd ask for that, then bargain from there.

ATdaisuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:38 AM
  #16
Mr Invidious
Registered User
 
Mr Invidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
You only get what he is worth here are a lot of positives to his offensive side

However he is a big time defensive liability, and has question marks around his work ethic.. When has a team won with a 1c tht has those issues..
You are jumping around on your arguments.

When looking at trying to decipher Spezza's value, why would we only consider teams within our division? How about we look at, oh, I don't know... the teams with a need for a #1C? That'd be a good idea! Using the schedule to determine his trade value above all else is laughable.

This is an 80 point #1C. If his value is going to suffer it will be because his injury history, his age and his contract terms.

Mr Invidious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 10:42 AM
  #17
Clamshells
Registered User
 
Clamshells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,032
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
Okay let's first of all look at what spezza is value wise. Where would he fit in on other teams

Tampa Bay: 2nd line centre behind stamkos could be behind drouin as well
So spezza would fall behind someone who didn't even play in the NHL in depth charts... yeah ok you nailed it bud.

Clamshells is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 11:09 AM
  #18
Benny FTW
TurnSoonestToTheSea
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,183
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Invidious View Post
Based on BMurr's comments, you can pretty much exclude any Eastern conference team from the discussion. It sounds like the organization will move him out West and that certainly makes much more sense with STL, ANA, VAN, CGY and other teams with more prevalent needs for a 1C while moving him out of the division.
Bryan Murray has made a comment on the situation?

Benny FTW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 11:18 AM
  #19
Mr Invidious
Registered User
 
Mr Invidious's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Bryan Murray has made a comment on the situation?
I misspoke. I meant what we're being told by reporters what they hear or believe the organization is doing.

Mr Invidious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 12:33 PM
  #20
BK201
Registered User
 
BK201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,274
vCash: 500
To clear it up Spezza IS our first line center they just give him 3rd liners to play with because of budgetary reasons.....

Hence IMO why he wants to leave. Plus Alfie called him and Phillips the night before he left and told him why he wasn't coming back.

I think that same reason, and im speculating is mostly cheapness from ownership and not icing the best team we could is why Spezza also wants to leave.

And Phillips is done and just doesn't want to move or really care.

BK201 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 12:39 PM
  #21
Dick Whitman
Registered User
 
Dick Whitman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
To clear it up Spezza IS our first line center they just give him 3rd liners to play with because of budgetary reasons.....

Hence IMO why he wants to leave. Plus Alfie called him and Phillips the night before he left and told him why he wasn't coming back.

I think that same reason, and im speculating is mostly cheapness from ownership and not icing the best team we could is why Spezza also wants to leave.

And Phillips is done and just doesn't want to move or really care.
I think Phillips' problem is that he cares too much. The guy tries to play beyond his current abilities and it gets him into trouble.

Spezza's had a rough ride in Ottawa since day one. He may see this as being a good time to move on and highly doubt that Alfie's decision last year has any impact on why Spezza wants out (allegedly) this year.

Dick Whitman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 12:44 PM
  #22
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 44,741
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexbarr92 View Post
Okay let's first of all look at what spezza is value wise. Where would he fit in on other teams

Boston has Bergeron, and krejci: spezza 3rd line centre
Buffalo: 1st line centre
Detroit: datsyuk,zetterberg so spezza 3rd line centre
Florida: for sure first centre
Montreal: has 6 centres
Ottawa: in ottawa this year he was 2-3 rd line centre
Tampa Bay: 2nd line centre behind stamkos could be behind drouin as well
Toronto: somewhere around nizam so potential 2nd line centre
Philly: behind giroux
Pittsburg: behind Crosby and Malkin

Basically all this means is that spezza will get the value of a second line centre

A recent trade had gaborik going to LA for frattin + 2nd + condition 3rd

So if he were to get traded to say Winnipeg you'd get Dustin byfuglian and a 3rd nothing more
Why does it matter where he would fit on a bunch of teams from the East if the speculation is the he is being shopped to Western teams?

TMI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 12:49 PM
  #23
OutForMilk
Registered User
 
OutForMilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: location, location
Country: Canada
Posts: 596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
To clear it up Spezza IS our first line center they just give him 3rd liners to play with because of budgetary reasons.....

Hence IMO why he wants to leave. Plus Alfie called him and Phillips the night before he left and told him why he wasn't coming back.

I think that same reason, and im speculating is mostly cheapness from ownership and not icing the best team we could is why Spezza also wants to leave.

And Phillips is done and just doesn't want to move or really care.
Has it been said that he wants to leave? I was under the impression that this was a case of the team shopping the player, not Spezza actually wanting to move.

OutForMilk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 12:54 PM
  #24
Zrhutch
Registered User
 
Zrhutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
How does Ottawa feel about Trevor "Mother****ing" Daley?

Zrhutch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2014, 12:56 PM
  #25
Do Make Say Think
Soul & Onward
 
Do Make Say Think's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutForMilk View Post
Has it been said that he wants to leave? I was under the impression that this was a case of the team shopping the player, not Spezza actually wanting to move.
McKenzie said Spezza told ownership he "might look favorably on a move"

Meaning ownership asked him about getting traded and he said he wouldn't be opposed (he submitted a list of 10 teams he doesn't want to go to in 2012)

So yes, the team is shopping him around moreso than Spezza wanting out

We also have heard rumblings about him not getting along with our coach which I find a bit hard to believe but you never know with these things

Do Make Say Think is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.