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Which non-HHOFers had HHOF talent?

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05-20-2014, 07:35 PM
  #26
The Panther
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Confused... Is this thread supposed to be people who should be in but aren't?... Or, is it about people who clearly shouldn't be in, but could have been if...? I thought the latter...

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05-20-2014, 08:09 PM
  #27
Big Phil
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Mogilny is the first name that comes to mind. He could go through the whole team if he wanted, and if he knew he'd be in for a big payday he would. But once that happened, he wasn't interested anymore.

Mike Richter comes to mind as well. Had the reflexes and the highlight reel moments but had trouble sustaining it like HHOF goalies should.

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05-20-2014, 09:34 PM
  #28
Butcher
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I always thought Jimmy Carson had that potential. Second youngest player to hit 50 goals (behind only Gretzky) with 55 in his second season and then was a healthy scratch a few years later.

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05-20-2014, 10:34 PM
  #29
LeBlondeDemon10
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There is a very good reason why Larouche and Nilsson aren't in. They lacked the consistent work ethic to compliment their elite skills. Turgeon is a borderline case. Mogilny is a very good case imo. He was a world class player who was able to change his game from elite scorer to excellent playmaker when he lost half a step. Kovalev reminds me of an old baseball saying, "The 5:00 o'clock hitter." That is the guy who puts on a show in batting practice, but can't consistently transfer the skill into a game. Yes, Kovalev had his moments, even a good season or two, but the Christmas decorations are useless unless you have a tree.

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05-20-2014, 10:46 PM
  #30
thom
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kent Neilson,Pierre Larouche

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05-20-2014, 11:03 PM
  #31
GMR
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Kovalev was the first name that came to mind. Guy had ridiculous skills.

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05-20-2014, 11:10 PM
  #32
thegoldenyear
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Nifty Middleton.

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05-20-2014, 11:17 PM
  #33
thom
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Till this day I still believe Rogy Vachon should be in Hall of Fame

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05-20-2014, 11:47 PM
  #34
Art of Sedinery
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Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Kovalev and Yashin were both players that came to mind.
Came to say this. The two for sure from my era. Peter Bondra too.

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05-21-2014, 01:21 AM
  #35
Big Phil
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Nifty Middleton.
I still say give that one time. If there is a forward on the outside looking in a name that is constantly brought up is Middleton's.

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05-21-2014, 01:57 AM
  #36
Sticks and Pucks
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What about Jim Carey? Had a Vezina Trophy by age 22 and was considered the future of goaltending before he signed a big contract and decided it all wasn't worth trying anymore.

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05-21-2014, 02:08 AM
  #37
thegoldenyear
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I still say give that one time. If there is a forward on the outside looking in a name that is constantly brought up is Middleton's.
Maybe! I've always figured Rick's serial HHOF snubbing derived from the backlog of peers with slightly flashier numbers and Cup titles. And after that wave of peers petered out around 1993 (don't know about you, Phil, but I recall watching the '93 HHOF induction with a sense that they were closing the book on that era), it seemed his window had closed. Those quiet 1994-1996 induction years spoke volumes (much in the way the slight delays on the 1993 inductees seemed to mitigate their achievements, like they were their respective dynasties' tag ends).

But then . . . 2002. If Middleton had stayed healthy long enough to clear 1000, perhaps Federko would be in this thread instead. I've often wondered if the optics of being the guy at the top of the sub-1000 point list worked against him. (Now that burden falls on Kariya, who coincidentally reminds me of Nifty in several ways: head injuries truncating a fine career, a Cup Finalist but no further, etc.)

Boy, was Nifty fun to watch. A bit too young to appreciate his Cherry years, but he was on my radar thereafter. Lovely, clean, player, and that six-year peak of 1.24 PPG production - with considerable artistry, to boot - is something to prize.

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05-21-2014, 02:10 AM
  #38
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by Sticks and Pucks View Post
What about Jim Carey? Had a Vezina Trophy by age 22 and was considered the future of goaltending before he signed a big contract and decided it all wasn't worth trying anymore.
Crazy thing is that he only played 172 games in the NHL. What was up with that?

But his first two seasons definitely scream HHOF. 2nd in Calder voting, 3rd in Vezina voting and 3rd Team All-Star (I realize that it is not a real accolade, but still) in his first year. Sophomore season he won the Vezina, was 1st Team All-Star, had 9 shutouts to lead the league, and was 8th in Hart voting. Pretty solid two first years in the league.

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05-21-2014, 02:17 AM
  #39
thegoldenyear
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
Confused... Is this thread supposed to be people who should be in but aren't?... Or, is it about people who clearly shouldn't be in, but could have been if...? I thought the latter...
I assumed the latter too - the player I had in mind was Rick Middleton, who was about as good as "not-quite" gets, but saw his nearly-there career doubly damned by head injuries just as his natural decline kicked in.

He was still 25 points over PPG in his age 30 year, dropped sharply to a nick below PPG the next three years, and quit after his troubled age 34 year.

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05-21-2014, 03:03 AM
  #40
The Panther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticks and Pucks View Post
What about Jim Carey? Had a Vezina Trophy by age 22 and was considered the future of goaltending before he signed a big contract and decided it all wasn't worth trying anymore.
And he was great in The Mask!

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05-21-2014, 06:00 AM
  #41
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stephan richer maybe

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05-21-2014, 09:49 AM
  #42
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Sergei Zubov and Alex Zhamnov had their moments.

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05-21-2014, 03:52 PM
  #43
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I feel like the amount of guys who have the talent to be Hall of Famers is at least 5x as much as the guys who actually do become Hall of Famers. I mean, there are more obvious cases, guys like Lecavalier and Fogarty who really had the tools to dominate the league and be perennial major awards candidates, but there are also a ton of lesser guys who could have made it if everything broke right.

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Originally Posted by Sticks and Pucks View Post
What about Jim Carey? Had a Vezina Trophy by age 22 and was considered the future of goaltending before he signed a big contract and decided it all wasn't worth trying anymore.
I always thought his Vezina award was a pretty terrible choice. He benefited a lot from Hasek and Brodeur not making the playoffs, and even then was a weak choice over Puppa and a bunch of other guys. He was 15th among qualifying goalies in save percentage that year.

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05-21-2014, 05:21 PM
  #44
LeBlondeDemon10
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
stephan richer maybe
Yeah, he was a good one. Great speed, size and shot. Pretty soft hands too. His mental health issues certainly affected his consistency. He also played on some extremely defense first oriented teams that likely harnessed his wild horse.

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05-21-2014, 06:20 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by thegoldenyear View Post
Nifty Middleton.
This. Ziggy Palffy too....

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05-24-2014, 11:27 PM
  #46
Up the Irons
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Seems like danglers are getting the love, but I like that these nifty howdy doers got the snub. Dangling is the most overrated (and overpaid) skill in hockey.

Barry Beck
Tim Kerr
Dave Andrechuk (tho, he might get in)

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Old
05-24-2014, 11:46 PM
  #47
livewell68
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Another thread that screams of Kovalev.

He was at his best a top 10 player in the NHL, even arguably top 5 (2000-01 and 2007-08) but for some reason he just never really played to that level consistently and left you waiting for more his entire career.

Some will say Kovalev just didn't "have it" and that is why the results are as such but I think he is a lot more in common with Jagr than just slick stickhandling and a wicked wrist shot. When he wasn't happy he looked lost on the ice, Jagr was the same but because he was overall more talented, even when he was off he still looked rather serviceable to good, Kovalev looked awful when not on.

I think in a world where everything went his way, Kovalev would have been a player who would have finished his career PPG and would have made the HHOF.

A current example would be Lecavalier.

Other examples are Lindros, Palfy and Bondra. Had Bondra layed on a more offensive minded team instead of the defense first Capitals for most of his career, he could have hit 60 goals a few times and been a lot closer to PPG, just look at what happened to Jagr when he went to Washington). Bondra was a lot closer to Bure and Selanne in terms of goals scoring them some realize.

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Old
05-25-2014, 12:07 AM
  #48
Up the Irons
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Another thread that screams of Kovalev.

He was at his best a top 10 player in the NHL, even arguably top 5 (2000-01 and 2007-08) but for some reason he just never really played to that level consistently and left you waiting for more his entire career.

Some will say Kovalev just didn't "have it" and that is why the results are as such but I think he is a lot more in common with Jagr than just slick stickhandling and a wicked wrist shot. When he wasn't happy he looked lost on the ice, Jagr was the same but because he was overall more talented, even when he was off he still looked rather serviceable to good, Kovalev looked awful when not on.

I think in a world where everything went his way, Kovalev would have been a player who would have finished his career PPG and would have made the HHOF.

A current example would be Lecavalier.

Other examples are Lindros, Palfy and Bondra. Had Bondra layed on a more offensive minded team instead of the defense first Capitals for most of his career, he could have hit 60 goals a few times and been a lot closer to PPG, just look at what happened to Jagr when he went to Washington). Bondra was a lot closer to Bure and Selanne in terms of goals scoring them some realize.
Again. A top 5 stick handler. A top 500 player, at best. Actually that is generous.

People, get over these danglers. If that is all u bring, then u are not great.

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Old
05-25-2014, 12:14 AM
  #49
Sticks and Pucks
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Had Bondra layed on a more offensive minded team instead of the defense first Capitals for most of his career, he could have hit 60 goals a few times and been a lot closer to PPG, just look at what happened to Jagr when he went to Washington). Bondra was a lot closer to Bure and Selanne in terms of goals scoring them some realize.
True, he played on a more defensive team. But how would Bondra have fared on a more offensive-minded team without guys like Adam Oates and Joe Juneau to feed him the puck?

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05-25-2014, 01:11 AM
  #50
livewell68
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Again. A top 5 stick handler. A top 500 player, at best. Actually that is generous.

People, get over these danglers. If that is all u bring, then u are not great.
I think you are real underrating Kovalev as a player. He was without a doubt an elite player in 2000-01, 2002-03 and 2007-08. He was more than just a dangler, he had one heck of a shot, he was deceptively strong and had great vision.

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