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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Which non-HHOFers had HHOF talent?

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Old
05-27-2014, 11:10 PM
  #76
Killion
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Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
Some old-timers might prefer Lasse Oksanen...
Pretty sure he attended a Vancouver Canucks Training Camp back in the early 70's. There were in fact several European stars who did attend NHL Camps in the late 60's & earlier but for various reasons returned to Europe to carry on their careers. Primary reason being that if theyd signed, likely assigned to the minors for grooming, no guarantee of the NHL, loss of Amateur Status back home. Boston in the late 40's & again late 50's; the Rangers in the early 60's etc. Some guys invited over even earlier, circa 1930's. Also the mysterious case of Monte Afzelius (The Mysterious) of Sweden. Emigrated to Detroit 1900's & formed the first Swedish/Detroit Hockey Team while working at a Ford Plant on the Assembly Line. He was invited to Montreal by the Canadiens Hockey Club either in the dying days of the NHA or beginning of the NHL around 1917 and may have played for them or in their organization under an assumed name. Just why the assumed name?

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05-27-2014, 11:21 PM
  #77
Phil Parent
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How about Vladimir Malakhov? A less dedicated player you couldn't find, but wow, what talent. The embodiement of not caring.

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05-27-2014, 11:25 PM
  #78
Ogie Goldthorpe
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Vladimir Krutov... until the 7-11 hot dogs got him.

Also, Petr Nedved. Too much, too soon.

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05-28-2014, 03:13 AM
  #79
VMBM
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Yes, and it was Carl Brewer, who suggested to Oksanen that he should give it a go. Oksanen was among "the last 32 players" who remained in the camp (apparently 77 players had started). He says that he played mostly with Orland Kurtenbach and Wayne Maki. He was indeed offered a contract, but it wasn't so financially rewarding that he wanted to sign it; he e.g. ran a succesful business in Finland (a gas station) and there were probably some other reasons, like ones you mentioned. He was not very young at the time either (nearing 30, I think).

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05-28-2014, 03:14 AM
  #80
The Panther
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Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Vladimir Krutov... until the 7-11 hot dogs got him.
Krutov seemed to take to the North American fast-food diet, for sure.

Well, as he died recently at 52, I will assume he's just one of those guys who aged a bit faster than average.

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05-28-2014, 03:33 AM
  #81
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Krutov was a beast.

Already as a 19-year old, he was the Soviet player whom the 1980 US Olympic team players feared the most... because of goals like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdWHxHdzHNo&t=22m49s (from the 1980 pre-OG game between USA and the Soviets)

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05-28-2014, 10:56 AM
  #82
DisgruntledGoat
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How about Vladimir Malakhov? A less dedicated player you couldn't find, but wow, what talent. The embodiement of not caring.
Yeah, his name came to my mond for sure.

During his playing days, I recall no shortage of quotes from coaches, teammates marvelling at his physical talents. A five-tool defenseman when he wanted to be.

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Old
05-28-2014, 11:18 AM
  #83
Martin Riggs
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Came by to say Bernie Nicholls. One of 8 guys ever to score 70G a season. Over 1 PPG career wise. If he'd fared a little better in his final years with the Sharks he might have hit 500 goals.

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05-28-2014, 02:10 PM
  #84
DisgruntledGoat
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Originally Posted by Murphy 17 View Post
Came by to say Bernie Nicholls. One of 8 guys ever to score 70G a season. Over 1 PPG career wise. If he'd fared a little better in his final years with the Sharks he might have hit 500 goals.
When he retired, I remember Nicholls talking about (and Im paraphrasing) how he once had the opportunity to watch Yzerman spend an extra hour or something after practice, working on his skills.

Nicholls said he always remembered seeing that because Nicholls left practice as early as he could and would have been out somewhere with a blonde during the time Yzerman would have still been on the ice. Nicholls said that was probably the reason for the difference in their respective careers.

A sad but honest thought.

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05-28-2014, 02:16 PM
  #85
thom
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Read Igor Larinov book which was published in Switzerland a decade ago-He said trainer injected players before big tournaments.Maybe now you understand ehat might have happened to Krutov

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05-28-2014, 02:25 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
When he retired, I remember Nicholls talking about (and Im paraphrasing) how he once had the opportunity to watch Yzerman spend an extra hour or something after practice, working on his skills.

Nicholls said he always remembered seeing that because Nicholls left practice as early as he could and would have been out somewhere with a blonde during the time Yzerman would have still been on the ice. Nicholls said that was probably the reason for the difference in their respective careers.

A sad but honest thought.
These two sentences don't seem to correlate

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05-28-2014, 03:03 PM
  #87
TheDevilMadeMe
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Read Igor Larinov book which was published in Switzerland a decade ago-He said trainer injected players before big tournaments.Maybe now you understand ehat might have happened to Krutov
When posting things like this, you need to provide links or you will be infracted for libel. Luckily, I am already aware of the story:

From an interview with the author of Gretzky to Lemieux - the story of the 1987 Canada Cup:

Quote:
7. In Larionov’s autobiography, his famous 1988 letter to Ogonyok is reprinted. He states that all members of the “Green Unit”–including Vladimir Krutov–refused to accept mysterious injections from national team doctors prior to the 1982 World Championships in Finland. However, in Gretzky to Lemieux, you write: “Larionov intimated that Krutov had been fed steroids on a consistent basis when he played for the national team that helped account for his great strength on the puck.” So the picture is a bit murky. Is it your view that we’re looking at an East German women’s swimming team-type scenario, so to speak?

That’s my view, but to be clear, we’re talking about Krutov here, not Larionov. I talked to two members of the Vancouver Canucks organization who were around when both players came over in 1989, and they both said one of the reasons Krutov was so bad was because he’d been cut off from his supply of steroids. Can I prove that? No.
http://hockeyadventure.com/2007/11/0...-the-province/

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Old
05-28-2014, 04:16 PM
  #88
Martin Riggs
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
When he retired, I remember Nicholls talking about (and Im paraphrasing) how he once had the opportunity to watch Yzerman spend an extra hour or something after practice, working on his skills.

Nicholls said he always remembered seeing that because Nicholls left practice as early as he could and would have been out somewhere with a blonde during the time Yzerman would have still been on the ice. Nicholls said that was probably the reason for the difference in their respective careers.

A sad but honest thought.
Didn't know that about him. Definately interesting. Just goes to show you what a solid work ethic can do. It would totally apply to some of the guys mentioned on this board so far.

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Old
05-28-2014, 06:04 PM
  #89
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
When he retired, I remember Nicholls talking about (and Im paraphrasing) how he once had the opportunity to watch Yzerman spend an extra hour or something after practice, working on his skills.

Nicholls said he always remembered seeing that because Nicholls left practice as early as he could and would have been out somewhere with a blonde during the time Yzerman would have still been on the ice. Nicholls said that was probably the reason for the difference in their respective careers.

A sad but honest thought.
Or it could be Bernie's way of saying, "I was as good as Yzerman".

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05-28-2014, 06:06 PM
  #90
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
When posting things like this, you need to provide links or you will be infracted for libel. Luckily, I am already aware of the story:

From an interview with the author of Gretzky to Lemieux - the story of the 1987 Canada Cup:



http://hockeyadventure.com/2007/11/0...-the-province/
I love the stories that go, "yeah, the other guy took stuff, but not me".

Reminds me of a few baseball sluggers.

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05-28-2014, 06:10 PM
  #91
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Do you guys know that Pierre Larouche had a better points per game than Jacques Lemaire and Steve Shutt

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Old
05-29-2014, 12:40 AM
  #92
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Do you guys know that Pierre Larouche had a better points per game than Jacques Lemaire and Steve Shutt
Not surprising but Larouche also had large downturns in production between his 3 really big years and all star voters were hardly impressed with him,even in those years.

Pretty good goal scorer in the regular season and not much else really.

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05-29-2014, 01:14 AM
  #93
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2 real snipers from the WHL who both had their careers derailed by substance abuse.

Reggie Leach, who had great chemistry with Clarke had more peak success than don Murdoch who never regained his promise after his year long suspension.

Lots of snipers from the 70's just couldn't get it all together despite some good signs at times in their careers, Paul Gardner, Marc Tardif and Real Cloutier come to mine off the top of my head.

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05-31-2014, 05:39 PM
  #94
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Konstantinov was first player that came to mind. Fluery perhaps if it weren't for all the off ice stuff. Maybe Heatley and Kovalchuk would of built hall of fame careers together if not for the car crash.

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05-31-2014, 09:31 PM
  #95
crobro
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Rick vaive

Al secord

Bob probert

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Old
05-31-2014, 09:51 PM
  #96
Iain Fyffe
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Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Vladimir Krutov... until the 7-11 hot dogs got him.
At first I read this to mean he was eating 7 to 11 hot dogs per day. Either way, probably not far off.

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06-01-2014, 03:10 AM
  #97
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Bryan Fogarty.

Vachon not being in the HoF is a travesty.

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06-01-2014, 05:53 PM
  #98
The Panther
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Bob probert
Let's not stretch credibility here -- Probert did not have Hall of Fame talent!

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06-01-2014, 05:57 PM
  #99
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Let's not stretch credibility here -- Probert did not have Hall of Fame talent!
Quote:
Playing ability, sportsmanship, character and their contribution to the team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.
I'd say he's got that one down minus the sportsmanship to some degree but with Dino in it, I guess sportsmanship isn't of that much importance.

Quote:
Must have concluded their career as an active player for a minimum of three playing seasons.
We can safely establish that Probert wont make any comebacks. We will never see anyone like him again.

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06-01-2014, 09:05 PM
  #100
LeBlondeDemon10
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At first I read this to mean he was eating 7 to 11 hot dogs per day. Either way, probably not far off.
Ha, good one. Probably Corn dogs. Hot dogs coated in a corn batter for extra calories were the thing in his day.

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