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Cup Winning teams that benefited most from injury to their opponents

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Old
05-21-2014, 10:42 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Ozzy's injury in 99, followed by pathetic performance from Ranford, destroyed the likely Threepeat dynasty in the making.
He was very good the first two games against the Avs.

Anyway, Buffalo would have won the Cup in 1994 in they had LaFontaine.

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05-21-2014, 11:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
He was very good the first two games against the Avs.

Anyway, Buffalo would have won the Cup in 1994 in they had LaFontaine.
Maybe the Sabres beat NJ if Pat plays but that team would be too weak to get past the NYR IMO and as it was NJ had an easy path to the NYR that year.

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05-22-2014, 03:26 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter View Post
Dan Hamhuis being injured in the 2011 Finals
Nathan Horton's injury played more of a role.

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05-22-2014, 04:08 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Don't be too surprised though, Phil. I think we've seen an excuse put forward on this board for why Detroit didn't win the Cup for pretty much every year they failed to do so over the last two decades.
I think it stems from the reason that the West was very tough with the Stars and the Avs against the Wings fighting it out. Not to mention the Devils in the East. The Wings were a very good team, but not good enough that they win 5-6 Cups in a row without the Avs/Stars interrupting it.

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Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
He was very good the first two games against the Avs.

Anyway, Buffalo would have won the Cup in 1994 in they had LaFontaine.
You said this in another thread. I really don't think Buffalo has a chance against the Rangers in 1994. Lafontaine was injured for sure but there is no guarantee they get by Jersey in the first place. The next round they're playing a tough Boston team and then the big test would be the Rangers. It isn't often where you say that a team was "destined" to win the Cup in a certain year but if there was ever a team who put all of their eggs in one basket it was the 1994 Rangers. They sold the farm for that team. Lafontaine was never particularly great in the postseason, so I am wondering how he fares against a possessed Messier. And Hasek would have to completely outclass Richter who was playing great then too. Who would be the one to handle Brian Leetch as well? No, there is too much going against the Sabres there.

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05-22-2014, 05:29 PM
  #30
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Maybe a long shot, but Lafleur's injury in 1980 may have benefited the Isles. While Montreal was defending champs, I don't think they had the depth or goaltending to beat NYI or Philly. They might have made it to the final though.
Not so long of a shot in my view. Despite the questionable goaltending situation the Habs were the hottest team in the league heading into the playoffs, having gone 21 games without a loss. They had already taken a hit before the playoffs, losing Lapointe and Risebrough for the season. Mondou missed time w/ a knee injury that would need off-season surgery and Savard was also battling a knee injury, so their depth was going to be tested regardless. Lafleur's injury was the nail in the coffin of the 5-peat. That it took Herron's ***** in game 7 for Minnesota to beat them w/out Lafleur says a lot about that depth. With Lafleur they're definitely in the semis against Buffalo at the very least, which was always a tough matchup for Montreal and of course there'd have been Bowman as well.

Conversely I'd say the Habs first win of the 70s dynasty against the Flyers was aided by a key injury. I don't mean Bernie Parent who, despite what many believe, was healthy. Instead I mean Rick MacLeish, the Flyers leading playoff scorer from the previous two year's Cup winning teams. MacLeish had been having a very good season until a check by Harold Snepts in game 51 put him out with torn knee ligaments. Obviously the Flyers had a great season in spite of no MacLeish, but against the Habs they really could've used him. The games of the '76 Finals were all tight games in spite of the sweep. MacLeish was one of the few Flyers forwards whose speed could match Montreal's and his goal scoring was sorely missed by Philadelphia.

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05-22-2014, 07:35 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by double5son10 View Post
Not so long of a shot in my view. Despite the questionable goaltending situation the Habs were the hottest team in the league heading into the playoffs, having gone 21 games without a loss. They had already taken a hit before the playoffs, losing Lapointe and Risebrough for the season. Mondou missed time w/ a knee injury that would need off-season surgery and Savard was also battling a knee injury, so their depth was going to be tested regardless. Lafleur's injury was the nail in the coffin of the 5-peat. That it took Herron's ***** in game 7 for Minnesota to beat them w/out Lafleur says a lot about that depth. With Lafleur they're definitely in the semis against Buffalo at the very least, which was always a tough matchup for Montreal and of course there'd have been Bowman as well.

Conversely I'd say the Habs first win of the 70s dynasty against the Flyers was aided by a key injury. I don't mean Bernie Parent who, despite what many believe, was healthy. Instead I mean Rick MacLeish, the Flyers leading playoff scorer from the previous two year's Cup winning teams. MacLeish had been having a very good season until a check by Harold Snepts in game 51 put him out with torn knee ligaments. Obviously the Flyers had a great season in spite of no MacLeish, but against the Habs they really could've used him. The games of the '76 Finals were all tight games in spite of the sweep. MacLeish was one of the few Flyers forwards whose speed could match Montreal's and his goal scoring was sorely missed by Philadelphia.
Good points. They did still have a lot of depth on that team, but the absence of Lemaire and Dryden stand out most for me. True, Macleish and Parent were key figures and I think the Flyers win a couple in that series with them. However, I'll throw in 79's Hab team that was beginning to fade from their glorious years of 77 and 78. Had the Isles succeeded in beating the Rangers, I think Montreal would have had their hands full with the Isles. Every dynasty has their share of skill, timing and a little luck though.

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05-22-2014, 11:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by double5son10 View Post
Not so long of a shot in my view. Despite the questionable goaltending situation the Habs were the hottest team in the league heading into the playoffs, having gone 21 games without a loss. They had already taken a hit before the playoffs, losing Lapointe and Risebrough for the season. Mondou missed time w/ a knee injury that would need off-season surgery and Savard was also battling a knee injury, so their depth was going to be tested regardless. Lafleur's injury was the nail in the coffin of the 5-peat. That it took Herron's ***** in game 7 for Minnesota to beat them w/out Lafleur says a lot about that depth. With Lafleur they're definitely in the semis against Buffalo at the very least, which was always a tough matchup for Montreal and of course there'd have been Bowman as well.

Conversely I'd say the Habs first win of the 70s dynasty against the Flyers was aided by a key injury. I don't mean Bernie Parent who, despite what many believe, was healthy. Instead I mean Rick MacLeish, the Flyers leading playoff scorer from the previous two year's Cup winning teams. MacLeish had been having a very good season until a check by Harold Snepts in game 51 put him out with torn knee ligaments. Obviously the Flyers had a great season in spite of no MacLeish, but against the Habs they really could've used him. The games of the '76 Finals were all tight games in spite of the sweep. MacLeish was one of the few Flyers forwards whose speed could match Montreal's and his goal scoring was sorely missed by Philadelphia.
Are you sure about Parent? Wasn't he still nursing that eye injury in 1976? I'm pretty sure he was still hurt.

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05-23-2014, 02:39 AM
  #33
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A healthy Datsyuk in '09 might have been enough for a Wings repeat.

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05-23-2014, 02:42 AM
  #34
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No doubt losing Hamius hurt the Canucks but the way they lost their 4 games in that SC finals can't all be pout down to the loss of a single player?

And as was pointed out above the Canucks almost blew a 3-0 series lead when Bolland came back in game 4 and took over that series and only a goalpost by Brian Campbell was the difference.
Yea, I don't think you can chalk it up to missing Hamhuis, though the whole team was ridiculously beat up. I'm still convinced the Canucks were the better team, but I'm not sure if that means they would have won.

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05-23-2014, 03:40 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Are you sure about Parent? Wasn't he still nursing that eye injury in 1976? I'm pretty sure he was still hurt.
Parent played in 8 Playoff games for the Flyers in 1976, 4-4 record, 27 GA, 3.38 GAA.

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05-23-2014, 04:14 AM
  #36
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In 2011, the Canucks lost Dan Hamhuis outright, but had a couple of key injuries to players who were actually playing as well. Kesler hurt his groin in the final game against the Sharks. Ehrhoff was injecting his wrist/shoulder (can't remember) with pain medication so he could play. I think Edler had two broken fingers. All were noticeably ineffective. And coupled with Malhotra playing with one eye...an unfortunate turn of events. Only Horton was injured for the Bruins (and Savard, who doesn't really count considering how little he played at all).

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05-23-2014, 12:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by JustOneB4IDie View Post
Parent played in 8 Playoff games for the Flyers in 1976, 4-4 record, 27 GA, 3.38 GAA.
Correct. The eye injury was in Feb. 1979 and ended his career. In 1975-76 Parent had suffered a neck injury in the pre-season that had required surgery and had kept him out for much of the season. He returned to the ice in late February and played well in the regular season, going 6-2-3 with a 2.34 GAA. Not the herculean numbers of the previous two years but if his GAA had been that over the full course of the season he would have been 3rd behind Dryden and Resch in that category.

The playoffs were another matter. Parent got lit up for 8 goals in a quarter-finals game against the Leafs, a series that went 7 games in part because Parent wasn't playing well. The first game of the following round against the Bruins he gave up 4 goals on only 24 shots in a Bruins win and Shero decided he'd seen enough. Stephenson then shut the door on the Bruins and of course got the call in the Finals. Parent being out injured is a Bullies myth, right up there with Schultz's hammering of Rolfe as being a deciding factor in their win over the Rangers two years before.

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05-23-2014, 05:33 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Sean Bergenheim missing the last 3 games of the series before, too. Him and Dominic Moore were an absolute terror for a couple rounds. And Pacioretty's season being ended by Chara...

But then again Horton/Bergeron/Chara missed time in each of those series respectively, sooooooooo...
Kesler playing with the injury he had helped also....he tried like a mofo but he was hurting bad.

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05-23-2014, 06:17 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter View Post
Dan Hamhuis being injured in the 2011 Finals
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Originally Posted by Stu Grimson View Post
I keep hearing that from Canucks fans as to why they lost the Cup. That was the most one sided 7 game series I have ever seen. What did Boston outscore the Canucks by? I will also say that if the Hawks had a healthy Dave Bolland for the entire series, the Canucks go golfing after round 1.
the canucks at the trade deadline:

sedin sedin burrows
raymond kesler samuelsson
torres malhotra (in healthy selke form) hansen
glass lapierre higgins

hamhuis salo
rome ehrhoff
ballard tanev
(with edler and bieksa injured, but both on LTIR partially for cap management purposes; they were both magically healthy again on the first day of the playoffs)


the canucks in game 7 of the finals:

sedin sedin (hurt, never disclosed) burrows
tambellini (his last game in the league) kesler (torn groin and hip labrum) higgins (hurt, needed off-season surgery)
torres lapierre hansen
glass malhotra (one eye) oreskovich (his second last game in the league)

bieksa salo (rumoured to be hurt)
edler (broken fingers) ehrhoff (hurt, needed off-season surgery)
alberts (rumoured to be hurt) tanev


sure, every team plays through injuries. but the canucks lost a guy in the first five minutes in 3/7 games of that series, two of the losses being defensemen. they went from being an excellent four-line team with at least one former 25 goal scorer on each line to a team whose fourth line you didn't want out there under any circumstances, and along the way lost both second line wingers.


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Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
Nathan Horton's injury played more of a role.
... in changing the momentum of the series when vancouver lost a second regular defenseman in aaron rome. think about it man, when horton got his brains scrambled, it was five minutes into a scoreless game 3 with the canucks up 2-0 in the series.


but all that said, in recent years (and, really, as far back as i remember), the winner of this thread has to be carolina.


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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
2006 Canes faced a Buffalo team missing half its starting defense in the conference finals, then Edmonton's goalie got injured in the finals.

On the other side of the spectrum, 2004 Tampa Bay and 2012 LA were freakishly healthy, as close to 100% healthy as you can be in the playoffs. Big advantage facing teams even suffering the normal amount of injuries.

to go from a top six of:

tallinder lydman
numminen kalinin
campbell mckee

to:

campbell lydman
rory fitzpatrick doug janik
jeff jillson nathan paetsch

is ridiculous. i will always believe 2006 was buffalo's cup. and don't forget that tim connolly led the sabres in scoring in the first round, with 5 goals and 6 assists in 7 games, before getting hurt seconds into game one of the second round.

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05-23-2014, 08:36 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post

... in changing the momentum of the series when vancouver lost a second regular defenseman in aaron rome. think about it man, when horton got his brains scrambled, it was five minutes into a scoreless game 3 with the canucks up 2-0 in the series.
Yep and put the Bruins into Gordon Pibb mode.

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05-25-2014, 08:19 AM
  #41
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Although he still played, I think the Kesler hip injury vs the Sharks was a major contributor to the Canucks loss to the Bruins. Magnified by losing Hammer.

Kesler was playing some of the best playoff hockey we've seen from any Canuck ever; a force at both ends of the ice. His injury effectively made us a 1 line team again, and the Bruins had no problem shutting down the twins bc of it.

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05-25-2014, 09:51 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
and don't forget that tim connolly led the sabres in scoring in the first round, with 5 goals and 6 assists in 7 games, before getting hurt seconds into game one of the second round.
Game two. He still had time to do this to Ottawa.


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05-25-2014, 09:56 AM
  #43
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Although he still played, I think the Kesler hip injury vs the Sharks was a major contributor to the Canucks loss to the Bruins. Magnified by losing Hammer.

Kesler was playing some of the best playoff hockey we've seen from any Canuck ever; a force at both ends of the ice. His injury effectively made us a 1 line team again, and the Bruins had no problem shutting down the twins bc of it.
Regardless of what Kesler was doing, the Twins did not play well against quality checking units in 2011. Almost all of their production came against San Jose and the games the Blackhawks didn't have Bolland. A healthier Kesler might have minimized the impact of Bergeron/Chara blanking the Sedins, but it still would have happened.

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05-25-2014, 10:14 AM
  #44
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Game two. He still had time to do this to Ottawa.

jesus, how could i forget?

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05-25-2014, 01:09 PM
  #45
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Regardless of what Kesler was doing, the Twins did not play well against quality checking units in 2011. Almost all of their production came against San Jose and the games the Blackhawks didn't have Bolland. A healthier Kesler might have minimized the impact of Bergeron/Chara blanking the Sedins, but it still would have happened.
No, that wasn't a very good playoffs for them. And the lack of power plays didn't help. A healthy Malhotra though would free up a healthy Kesler to be much more offensive, which also would have forced the Bruins to not put all their effort into stopping the Twins and opened things up for them. Of course Thomas was playing so well it may not have made much of a difference.

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05-25-2014, 02:19 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
the canucks at the trade deadline:

sedin sedin burrows
raymond kesler samuelsson
torres malhotra (in healthy selke form) hansen
glass lapierre higgins

hamhuis salo
rome ehrhoff
ballard tanev
(with edler and bieksa injured, but both on LTIR partially for cap management purposes; they were both magically healthy again on the first day of the playoffs)


the canucks in game 7 of the finals:

sedin sedin (hurt, never disclosed) burrows
tambellini (his last game in the league) kesler (torn groin and hip labrum) higgins (hurt, needed off-season surgery)
torres lapierre hansen
glass malhotra (one eye) oreskovich (his second last game in the league)

bieksa salo (rumoured to be hurt)
edler (broken fingers) ehrhoff (hurt, needed off-season surgery)
alberts (rumoured to be hurt) tanev
It's probably telling that the only line that played well in the finals was the only line that was healthy and stayed in tact. Though I do remember Hansen playing with Kesler at times in the series.

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05-25-2014, 08:41 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Regal View Post
No, that wasn't a very good playoffs for them. And the lack of power plays didn't help. A healthy Malhotra though would free up a healthy Kesler to be much more offensive, which also would have forced the Bruins to not put all their effort into stopping the Twins and opened things up for them. Of course Thomas was playing so well it may not have made much of a difference.
Vancouver spent practically the entire San Jose series on the PP if I recall correct.

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05-25-2014, 09:12 PM
  #48
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Vancouver spent practically the entire San Jose series on the PP if I recall correct.
Meant more in the finals. You're right, the PP was a huge part of the San Jose series win

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05-25-2014, 10:32 PM
  #49
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I'll have to say Hamhuis, who would have been my pick for 2011 Conn Smythe if the Canucks had kept him healthy and won in the finals.

Hamhuis was playing 27 to 30 minutes per night of flawless defensive hockey. Take that away and that's half a game that needs to be made up by guys like Edler, Bieksa and Ehrhoff - not exactly defensive specialists. The soft-in-their-own-zone defensemen got torn to shreds by Boston's transition and forecheck. With Hamhuis steadying the line for half a game all series, Vancouver wins in five or six.

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05-26-2014, 01:06 PM
  #50
vadim sharifijanov
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Vancouver spent practically the entire San Jose series on the PP if I recall correct.
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Meant more in the finals. You're right, the PP was a huge part of the San Jose series win
actually, both teams feasted on the PP in that series. 7 of the 13 goals SJ scored in that series were on the PP. 9 of 20 for vancouver. my memory of that round is the special teams were basically a wash and the canucks won that series at even strength.

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