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The most surprising statistics

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08-30-2005, 12:12 AM
  #1
Stephen
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The most surprising statistics

What are some of the most surprising hockey stats you've come across over the years? Here are a fewto get things started:

1. Mario Lemieux, despite having been around the NHL scene for over 2 decades, and having had one of the greatest NHL careers ever, has only played in 889 NHL regular season games, or about the same amount as a Chris Gratton.

2. The fastest two goals scored at the beginning of a period is 4 seconds, shared by Claude Provost and Denis Savard. Kind of makes you wonder how distracted the opposing team and goalie must have been for something as incredible

3. Glenn Hall's 502 straight games. How did this guy manage to stay healthy enough in equipment that were undersized, overweight, and without a mask to play every game for so long? It's just incredible.

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Old
09-05-2005, 12:34 PM
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Jordoe28
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Ron Tugnutt, 1998/99 with Ottawa

He went 22-10-8 with a 1.79 G.A.A. a .925 SVP%, and 3 shutouts in 43 Games with Ottawa.

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09-05-2005, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
3. Glenn Hall's 502 straight games. How did this guy manage to stay healthy enough in equipment that were undersized, overweight, and without a mask to play every game for so long? It's just incredible.
He had Bobby Hull playing with him.

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09-05-2005, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordoe28
Ron Tugnutt, 1998/99 with Ottawa

He went 22-10-8 with a 1.79 G.A.A. a .925 SVP%, and 3 shutouts in 43 Games with Ottawa.
Lesson to be learned:

Goaltending statistics tell you very little about a goalie but, a whole lot about the team he plays for.

Not saying that Tugnutt was bad, just saying that the team in front of him had a lot to do with those amazing numbers.

The only way evaluate a goalie is to watch him play.

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09-05-2005, 01:13 PM
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Although I do somewhat agree with you, this thread is about most surprising statistics and I was quite surprised at Tugnutt's stats that season, and in the playoffs with Pittsburgh. I was also impressed with his first year on Columbus setting another NHL record with most wins on a expansion team.

I've seen almost every game Tugnutt has played in since his days in Ottawa. I am a die hard fan.

I am also a goalie myself. I would also say that some goaltending stats like GAA are team orientated, statistics like your save percentage and it being a league leader has nothing to do with the team in front of you and everything to do with hte percentage of shots you saved.

And if it was Tugnutt's team in front of him that year, than how come Damian Rhodes numbers that year were not even close to Tugnutts? Seeing as they did share duties? In fact Rhodes played 45 games that year and Tugnutt 43, yet there statistics in GAA and SVP% are not even close at all.


Last edited by Jordoe28: 09-05-2005 at 01:29 PM.
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09-05-2005, 01:32 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordoe28
Although I do somewhat agree with you, this thread is about most surprising statistics and I was quite surprised at Tugnutt's stats that season, and in the playoffs with Pittsburgh. I was also impressed with his first year on Columbus setting another NHL record with most wins on a expansion team.

I've seen almost every game Tugnutt has played in since his days in Ottawa. I am a die hard fan.

I am also a goalie myself. I would also say that some goaltending stats like GAA are team orientated, statistics like your save percentage and it being a league leader has nothing to do with the team in front of you and everything to do with hte percentage of shots you saved.

And if it was Tugnutt's team in front of him that year, than how come Damian Rhodes numbers that year were not even close to Tugnutts? Seeing as they did share duties? In fact Rhodes played 45 games that year and Tugnutt 43, yet there statistics in GAA and SVP% are not even close at all.

Save % is very much a team statistic. The quality of the team in front of the goalie determines the quality of the shots he faces. Do you think a goalie would have a higher save % facing 30 breakaways or 30 shots from the point with no screen?

Take a look at Grant Fuhr's save percentages back in the 80s. They weren't all that great but, he was known as one of the best goalies in the game. Why is that? The Oilers were such a run 'n' gun team that they left Fuhr alone to face breakaways, two on ones, three on ones and point blank shots. The man was an amazing goaltender but his save % stunk because his team was off trying to score goals.

Take a look at 2003-04's save % leaders. Duane Roloson is right up at the top. Why was he not invited to Team Canada camp like Martin Brodeur was? The fact is, Minnesota's defensive system means that Roloson faces less quality shots than Martin Brodeur does. Is there any doubt that Brodeur is the better goalie despite the lower save %?

Again, I am not trying to bash Tugnutt. He was a good goalie just not the best in the league as those numbers would indicate. Rhodes was probably nowhere near as good as Tugnutt that season.

The team in front of the goalie does play a key role in save %.


Last edited by Ogopogo*: 09-05-2005 at 01:42 PM.
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09-05-2005, 01:55 PM
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A surprising statistic:

That despite never being anything more than a 4th line scrub (he actually had one good season for the Canucks in the early '90s I believe) Gino Odjick is 16th in NHL history in penalty minutes.

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09-05-2005, 02:30 PM
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Actually, I'd say GAA is more of a team stat than save percentage. Case in point: Roberto Luongo. Florida's defence has been shabby at best in recent years - non-existent at worst - but that hasn't stopped Luongo from posting save percentages of .915, .918 and .931 in the last three years. Same with Theodore in his Hart Trophy season. The Habs had a terrible defensive team, but Theodore had a save percentage of .931, and justifiably won the Hart Trophy as the player most valuable to his team. The Sabres never had a particularly strong defensive team when Hasek had those great seasons in the 1990s, but he still had the great save percentage. I've seen a lot of mediocre goalies put up great GAAs behind strong defensive teams, but have mediocre save percentages. I've also seen many excellent goalies put up mediocre GAAs behind shabby defences, but have great save precentages. (Of course, I've also seen a lot of mediocre and great goalies put up stirling GAAs and save percentages behind great defences; and a lot of mediocre and great goalies put up mediocre numbers behind shabby defences).

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09-05-2005, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
Actually, I'd say GAA is more of a team stat than save percentage. Case in point: Roberto Luongo. Florida's defence has been shabby at best in recent years - non-existent at worst - but that hasn't stopped Luongo from posting save percentages of .915, .918 and .931 in the last three years. Same with Theodore in his Hart Trophy season. The Habs had a terrible defensive team, but Theodore had a save percentage of .931, and justifiably won the Hart Trophy as the player most valuable to his team. The Sabres never had a particularly strong defensive team when Hasek had those great seasons in the 1990s, but he still had the great save percentage. I've seen a lot of mediocre goalies put up great GAAs behind strong defensive teams, but have mediocre save percentages. I've also seen many excellent goalies put up mediocre GAAs behind shabby defences, but have great save precentages. (Of course, I've also seen a lot of mediocre and great goalies put up stirling GAAs and save percentages behind great defences; and a lot of mediocre and great goalies put up mediocre numbers behind shabby defences).
There are plenty of examples of mediocre goalies with stellar save percentages on good defensive teams and there are plenty of examples of good goalies on bad defensive teams posting good save percentages.

The bottom line is that it is a combination of the goalie and the team. It can be debated how much of each contributes to the number but, let's say it is 50/50 for arguments sake.

What that tells us is that save % is not a reliable statistic to judge the play of a goaltender.

Luongo had a .931 save % last year but Roloson had a .933. Does that mean Roloson is the better goalie?


Last edited by Ogopogo*: 09-05-2005 at 02:43 PM.
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09-05-2005, 07:23 PM
  #10
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Joe Juneau- 102 points as a rooke in 1994
Marc Bergevin- 36 goals in 1191 games
And to show how good Gretzky really was: 970 points separate him and Howe. That's more points than guys like Maurice Richard (or Kirk Muller, Teemu Selanne, Rick Tocchet, Steve Thomas, Ray Ferraro, Chris Chelios, Neal Broten) had in their whole career.


Last edited by Hedberg: 09-06-2005 at 02:28 PM.
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09-05-2005, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
Actually, I'd say GAA is more of a team stat than save percentage. Case in point: Roberto Luongo. Florida's defence has been shabby at best in recent years - non-existent at worst - but that hasn't stopped Luongo from posting save percentages of .915, .918 and .931 in the last three years. Same with Theodore in his Hart Trophy season. The Habs had a terrible defensive team, but Theodore had a save percentage of .931, and justifiably won the Hart Trophy as the player most valuable to his team. The Sabres never had a particularly strong defensive team when Hasek had those great seasons in the 1990s, but he still had the great save percentage. I've seen a lot of mediocre goalies put up great GAAs behind strong defensive teams, but have mediocre save percentages. I've also seen many excellent goalies put up mediocre GAAs behind shabby defences, but have great save precentages. (Of course, I've also seen a lot of mediocre and great goalies put up stirling GAAs and save percentages behind great defences; and a lot of mediocre and great goalies put up mediocre numbers behind shabby defences).
So are you saying Tugnutt was a great goalie that year or a mediocre one?

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09-05-2005, 11:12 PM
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I think Tugnutt was a very good goalie in 1999. I think Luongo was a better goalie than Roloson in 2004, and that's reflected in Luongo's nominations for the Vezina and the Pearson. (Although Roloson was one heck of a goalie in 2003-04).

I think a strong goalie is more likely to put up a great save percentage than a great GAA behind a weak team. In the same breath, I have seen more mediocre goalies put up great GAAs than save percentages behind strong teams. That's the basic point behind my post.

I think save percentage is more of a personal stat than GAA, and is the more relevant stat. But both save percentage and GAA can be team stats.

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09-05-2005, 11:30 PM
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The amount of games Lidstrom has missed. I mean the guy is always in the top of the league in mins played and he's never injured.

Ruslan Fedotenko scoring 12 goals in the playoffs and being a Conn Smyth candidate.

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09-05-2005, 11:50 PM
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Fastest 2 goals scored by one player in an NHL game is 4 seconds by Deron Quint while he was on the Jets December 15, 1999 againt the Oilers.

That one amazes me because Quint should have never been anything more than a spare defenseman.

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09-06-2005, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordoe28
Although I do somewhat agree with you, this thread is about most surprising statistics and I was quite surprised at Tugnutt's stats that season, and in the playoffs with Pittsburgh. I was also impressed with his first year on Columbus setting another NHL record with most wins on a expansion team.

I've seen almost every game Tugnutt has played in since his days in Ottawa. I am a die hard fan.
I can't say I followed Tugnutt closely, but I thought he was absolutely amazing in Pens playoff run in 2000.

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09-06-2005, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg
And to show how good Gretzky really was: 970 points separate him and Howe. That's more points than guys like Maurice Richard had in his whole career.
Wayne is actually 1,007 points ahead of Howe (2,857 to 1,850). He is 970 points ahead of the Moose.

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09-06-2005, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg
Joe Juneau- 102 points as a rooke in 1994
Marc Bergevin- 36 goals in 1191 games
And to show how good Gretzky really was: 970 points separate him and Howe. That's more points than guys like Maurice Richard had in his whole career.
Back when Richard played, 10 seasons played was 300 games less than it was in the 80s though.

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09-06-2005, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Back when Richard played, 10 seasons played was 300 games less than it was in the 80s though.
And it was a much much much more defensive era.

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09-06-2005, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salty justice
Fastest 2 goals scored by one player in an NHL game is 4 seconds by Deron Quint while he was on the Jets December 15, 1999 againt the Oilers.

That one amazes me because Quint should have never been anything more than a spare defenseman.
i was just going to mention this. i remember how it happened too. after he scored the first one (i believe it was just a slap shot from the point), on the ensuing faceoff he just dumped it off the glass into the offensive zone. the goalie (can't remember name) went to play it behind the net but the puck took a bad bounce off the glass and it went in. so it was fluky, but it all counts.

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09-06-2005, 02:15 PM
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mario lemieux
with the Laval Voisins 83-84 70 133g 149a 282pts 92pim
playoff
14 29g 23a 52pts 29pim

562pts in 200 games 2.81 pts/game

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09-06-2005, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Back when Richard played, 10 seasons played was 300 games less than it was in the 80s though.
I know that. I never meant it as an insult to Richard. I was just using him as an example of how many points seperate Gretzky and Howe.

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09-06-2005, 02:35 PM
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if Gretzky had never scored a goal in his career, he would STILL be the greatest scorer ever... he has more assists alone, than anyone else has points!!!

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09-06-2005, 02:36 PM
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In 1966-67, Yvan Cournoyer scored 20 of his 25 goals on the power play. He scored ten of those PP goals against the Leafs alone.

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09-06-2005, 02:47 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Back when Richard played, 10 seasons played was 300 games less than it was in the 80s though.
No it wasn't... Richard played only 3 seasons in a 50 game season league.. 4 in a 60 game season and the other 11 in a 70 game season format.. So no, 10 seasons was nowhere near 300 games less than in the 80's.

Not trying to be a smart-***, just pointing out that Richard didn't miss out on quite such a drastic number of games due to the format of the league..

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09-06-2005, 08:34 PM
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79 games 70 goals 80 assists 150 points.

My dawwwwg, Bernie friggin' Nicholls.

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