HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bergevin named finalist for GM of the Year award

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-23-2014, 08:10 AM
  #1
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,099
vCash: 500
Bergevin named finalist for GM of the Year award

I'll just put every move Bergevin did since he first came in as a GM. People have been fairly critical of him over the months, but here are the roster moves he did;

Signings:
Signing Armstrong to a 1 year, 1M deal (1M/yr)
Signing Bouillon to a 1 year, 1.5M deal (1.5M/yr, later resigned to the same contract)
Signing Prust to a 4 years, 10M deal (2.5M/yr)
Trading Cedrick Desjardins for Dustin Tokarski
Trading Erik Cole for Michael Ryder (UFA) and a 3rd round pick in 2013 (Connor Crisp)
Claiming Jeff Halpern off waivers (UFA)
Trading a 2013 5th round pick for Davis Drewiske (RFA, re-signed 2 years @ league min.)
Trading Danny Kristo for Christian Thomas
Signing Briere to a 2 years, 8M deal (4M/yr)
Trading a 7th round pick in 2014 for George Parros
Signing Murray to a 1 year, 1.5M deal (1.5M/yr)
Trading Rafael Diaz for Dale Weise
Trading a 5th round pick in 2014 for Mike Weaver
Trading Sebastian Collberg and a 2nd round pick in 2014 for Thomas Vanek and a 5th round pick in 2014

Inner roster moves:
Signing Travis Moen to a 4 years, 7.2M deal (1.8M/yr)
Signing Max Pacioretty to a 6 years, 27M deal (4.5M/yr)
Signing Carey Price to a 6 years, 39M deal (6.5M/yr)
Signing PK Subban to a 2 years, 5.75M deal (2.875M/yr)
Signing David Desharnais to a 4 years, 14M deal (3.5M/yr)
Signing Alexei Emelin to a 4 years, 16.4M deal (4.1M/yr)

In the end, you look at those deals, and people have been laughing long and large about the "character" criteria to build his team around. That being said, there are some realities people can't overlook;

This team has way more character and determination than teams from the Gauthier era. There's still more to change in order to have a team of legit "winners", but we're definitely in the right direction.

This team is way more physical than it once was under Gauthier, as Bergevin made notable efforts to change this team's mentality, hiring guys like Prust, Armstrong, Bouillon, Parros, Murray, Weise, Weaver in less than two calendar years. All guys the old management didn't believe could be useful in a depth role.

Bergevin hasn't traded any significant future assets to do these moves; Sebastian Collberg and a 2nd rounder are the two most significant assets he traded. Collberg disappointed, and the 2nd rounder is in a very weak draft year.

Bergevin hasn't been giving out HUGE contracts out there. Only short term deals with very little chance to hurt the team's finances.

Considering how this team moved forward in the last two years, and considering what we gave up, I think Bergevin deserves way more props than what he's getting. There are still some players who I won't mention who still carry the losers mentality from the Gain/thier era, but all in all, considering the small amount of time he's had so far, I think we can notice some patterns in his work, and consider him a very good rookie, who doesn't fall in the trap of giving away 2nd round picks like they're homemade buns, like his predecessor.

Can't wait to see the rest of his achievements. I still think he has a lot to prove, but how can anyone SO FAR complain about his work is just over me.


Last edited by HiggsBozon: 05-23-2014 at 11:27 AM.
HiggsBozon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:22 AM
  #2
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post

This team has way more character and determination than teams from the Gauthier era.
I agree with everything you posted but every time I see McDonagh play I go into a blind rage and have to be restrained by 4 muscle bound weightlifters. And your mentioning of the name Gauthier sends me over the edge so I can post no more or I'll get 5 or 6 infractions for foul language.

onice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:26 AM
  #3
BeliveauFan4ever
Registered User
 
BeliveauFan4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 232
vCash: 500
Nice summary, thanks for putting in the time.

There was so much work to be done, that I think
M.B. isn't even half done, yet.

Gauthier left holes galore, and his gaffes were costly,
Like turning McDonagh into a Ranger.

Ugh.

The 2009 draft cupboard looks empty.

Ugh.

Challenges ahead, but I like what he's done so far, which
Is improve the team at minimal cost.

BeliveauFan4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:27 AM
  #4
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
I agree with everything you posted but every time I see McDonagh play I go into a blind rage and have to be restrained by 4 muscle bound weightlifters. And your mentioning of the name Gauthier sends me over the edge so I can post no more or I'll get 5 or 6 infractions for foul language.
I get you.

People have to get over the McDonagh trade though. He's a good defenseman, sure, but he's not anywhere close to being as good as some people make him out to be out there. Could we use him? Sure. But if Emelin was in his situation on the Briere goal yesterday, he'd be bashed out of this city on this board. McDonagh was terrible on that sequence, and that went unnoticed. He was also terrible in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs.

He's a human being, we gave him up for an insignificant return, but these things happen.

I hate Gauthier much more for not giving an identity/making moves to actually IMPROVE this team in his stay, than for a bad trade which was made. GMs do bad moves. It happens. But when you're not even willing to have a plan to get this team better, and when you don't have any vision of how the team should look like, this is the biggest of the problems.

HiggsBozon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:28 AM
  #5
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,452
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeliveauFan4ever View Post
Nice summary, thanks for putting in the time.

There was so much work to be done, that I think
M.B. isn't even half done, yet.

Gauthier left holes galore, and his gaffes were costly,
Like turning McDonagh into a Ranger.

Ugh.

The 2009 draft cupboard looks empty.

Ugh.

Challenges ahead, but I like what he's done so far, which
Is improve the team at minimal cost.
Gainey traded McDonough to the Rangers not Gauthier.

Gauthier actually did a pretty good job as GM, good asset management and adding picks. Halak-Eller trade etc

Monctonscout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:28 AM
  #6
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 33,025
vCash: 500
I just hope this season and these playoff results don't get to his head just yet, I hope he keeps building this way and we keep becoming a power house team like the Bruins, Hawks, Kings .. That's all I want from this organization, a competitive team on a yearly basis not one that has flashes every 3-4 years the way we use to

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:31 AM
  #7
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 33,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Gainey traded McDonough to the Rangers not Gauthier.

Gauthier actually did a pretty good job as GM, good asset management and adding picks. Halak-Eller trade etc
Gauthier was right there with Gainey when McDo was traded. He is just as guilty

Gauthier did do some ok trades adding some picks on our pathetic season but he also hurt this team witj some horrible trades like the Kaberle one for Spacek who was set to be a UFA that year and we had to use a compliance Buyout instead on Kaberle which hurt this team

Anyways the past is done and McDo will never be back, let's turn the page from the Gainey-Gauthier ERA, I get nervous just thinking and talking about it

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:32 AM
  #8
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Gainey traded McDonough to the Rangers not Gauthier.

Gauthier actually did a pretty good job as GM, good asset management and adding picks. Halak-Eller trade etc
The guy gave up way more picks than he got. Giving 5th rounders for Mara, 4th rounders for Sopel and Dawes, 2nd round picks for Moore and Wiz (who he didn't re-sign), and gave high 2nd rounder to move up 5 spots at the end of round 1 in the draft to get Tinordi, instead of, say, Merrill and Nelson.

Not sure you can say he added picks. He was terrible in asset management, he's the GM who gave up the most picks, and the current struggles in Hamilton are a big consequence of his tenure.

HiggsBozon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:37 AM
  #9
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,902
vCash: 500
You forgot Kristo for Thomas

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:38 AM
  #10
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
You forgot Kristo for Thomas
Thanks bro! Just added it.

HiggsBozon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:41 AM
  #11
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Thanks bro! Just added it.
No prob. For the moment, it seems the Rangers got the better end of that deal, but it's purely a paper assessment.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:48 AM
  #12
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,231
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Gauthier was right there with Gainey when McDo was traded. He is just as guilty

Gauthier did do some ok trades adding some picks on our pathetic season but he also hurt this team witj some horrible trades like the Kaberle one for Spacek who was set to be a UFA that year and we had to use a compliance Buyout instead on Kaberle which hurt this team

Anyways the past is done and McDo will never be back, let's turn the page from the Gainey-Gauthier ERA, I get nervous just thinking and talking about it
Not to make a case for Gauthier as a great GM or anything, but I don't think he gets enough credit for the Halak trade. Not because he got a monstrously good return for Halak (even though I like Eller and he is leading our forwards in scoring in the playoffs right now) but because it took balls of steel to not move Price and it's looking like 100% the right move at this point. That's was a franchise defining trade (or non-trade, in terms of not moving Price).

Anyway just my two cents on the Goat since it was brought up. Didn't mean to turn this into a Price vs. Halak thing.

Bergevin has been very good so far. Not perfect, and some headscratchers along the way, but find me one GM in the league with a perfect record. The good definitely outweighs the bad (or the questionable) so far.

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:52 AM
  #13
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Not to make a case for Gauthier as a great GM or anything, but I don't think he gets enough credit for the Halak trade. Not because he got a monstrously good return for Halak (even though I like Eller and he is leading our forwards in scoring in the playoffs right now) but because it took balls of steel to not move Price and it's looking like 100% the right move at this point. That's was a franchise defining trade (or non-trade, in terms of not moving Price).

Anyway just my two cents on the Goat since it was brought up. Didn't mean to turn this into a Price vs. Halak thing.

Bergevin has been very good so far. Not perfect, and some headscratchers along the way, but find me one GM in the league with a perfect record. The good definitely outweighs the bad (or the questionable) so far.
It certainly took balls. But I was 100% happy with the decision. It's maybe the financier side of me saying that, but always buy low, and sell high.

Halak was as high as he could ever get with the Habs.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:54 AM
  #14
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,452
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Gauthier was right there with Gainey when McDo was traded. He is just as guilty

Gauthier did do some ok trades adding some picks on our pathetic season but he also hurt this team witj some horrible trades like the Kaberle one for Spacek who was set to be a UFA that year and we had to use a compliance Buyout instead on Kaberle which hurt this team

Anyways the past is done and McDo will never be back, let's turn the page from the Gainey-Gauthier ERA, I get nervous just thinking and talking about it
So being on the staff when your boss makes a bad deal is your fault?



I'm sure you're one of the guys saying it's not Timmins' fault for drafting Fischer instead blaming Gainey...

Bottom line Gauthier added way more to this team than he traded away, but some people can't admit that because they dislike him as a person for being out of the limelight.

Monctonscout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:57 AM
  #15
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
So being on the staff when your boss makes a bad deal is your fault?



I'm sure you're one of the guys saying it's not Timmins' fault for drafting Fischer instead blaming Gainey...

Bottom line Gauthier added way more to this team than he traded away, but some people can't admit that because they dislike him as a person for being out of the limelight.
No. But being the main guy in charge while your boss is currently grieving for the death of his daughter certain makes it your fault.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:58 AM
  #16
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,452
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Not to make a case for Gauthier as a great GM or anything, but I don't think he gets enough credit for the Halak trade. Not because he got a monstrously good return for Halak (even though I like Eller and he is leading our forwards in scoring in the playoffs right now) but because it took balls of steel to not move Price and it's looking like 100% the right move at this point. That's was a franchise defining trade (or non-trade, in terms of not moving Price).

Anyway just my two cents on the Goat since it was brought up. Didn't mean to turn this into a Price vs. Halak thing.

Bergevin has been very good so far. Not perfect, and some headscratchers along the way, but find me one GM in the league with a perfect record. The good definitely outweighs the bad (or the questionable) so far.
Agree, I think a lot of GM's would have panicked and kept Halak and moved Price for bigger return, making the short sighted move.

People are so obsessed with crapping on Gauthier than they twist things around. If he was an idiot Chicago wouldn't have hired him, he's been an NHL front office guy for what, 20 years?

Monctonscout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 09:00 AM
  #17
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,231
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
No. But being the main guy in charge while your boss is currently grieving for the death of his daughter certain makes it your fault.
"Certain"? Sounds like a lot of conjecture to me. The bottom line is the only two people who know best how much responsibility Gainey had and how much responsibility Gauthier had...are Gainey and Gauthier. But at the end of the day, Gainey's name was under "general manager". That's the only real certainty there.

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 09:02 AM
  #18
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
"Certain"? Sounds like a lot of conjecture to me. The bottom line is the only two people who know best how much responsibility Gainey had and how much responsibility Gauthier had...are Gainey and Gauthier. But at the end of the day, Gainey's name was under "general manager". That's the only real certainty there.
I guess Laura Gainey's death is not a certainty, then?

Get over yourself a minute. Gainey clearly had not the mind or the focus to do his duties at the time; Gauthier took over.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 09:05 AM
  #19
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,452
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
No. But being the main guy in charge while your boss is currently grieving for the death of his daughter certain makes it your fault.
Greiving you daughter's death doesn't change who Gomez is and his contract. Blaming Gauthioer for Gainey's moves is ridiculous.

Monctonscout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 09:06 AM
  #20
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Greiving you daughter's death doesn't change who Gomez is and his contract. Blaming Gauthioer for Gainey's moves is ridiculous.
Grieving for your daughter is certainly a good reason to NOT pay attention to your job and leave the farm in someone else's hands.

edit: actually, you know what? Nevermind. It's useless to discuss this.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 09:11 AM
  #21
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,231
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I guess Laura Gainey's death is not a certainty, then?

Get over yourself a minute. Gainey clearly had not the mind or the focus to do his duties at the time; Gauthier took over.
Well her body was never actually recovered, if you really want to go down that route in discussing certainties...but yes, we'll call her death a certainty.

And yes, Gauthier took over some of Gainey's duties - absolutely. For four weeks in December he took over the job completely. However, the trade happened in July, when Gainey was, for all intents and purposes, back at his post full-time. Don't pretend like you have inner knowledge of how the trade went down or how much Gainey did vs. how much Gauthier did and then tell me to get over myself. All you have to go on are your own assumptions.

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 09:12 AM
  #22
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 33,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
So being on the staff when your boss makes a bad deal is your fault?



I'm sure you're one of the guys saying it's not Timmins' fault for drafting Fischer instead blaming Gainey...

Bottom line Gauthier added way more to this team than he traded away, but some people can't admit that because they dislike him as a person for being out of the limelight.
Absolutely. It's both their faults, the one who pulled the trade and the one who reffered him the player who was his right hand man in Gauthier

And no it has nothing to do with the Fisher pick, that's on Timmins not anyone else. The only pick I give Timmins a free pass was Leblanc, cause I honeslty think he was selected just because you know why and I'm not going to go there!

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 09:14 AM
  #23
Coldplay
Courage
 
Coldplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Well her body was never actually recovered, if you really want to go down that route in discussing certainties...but yes, we'll call her death a certainty.

And yes, Gauthier took over some of Gainey's duties - absolutely. For four weeks in December he took over the job completely. However, the trade happened in July, when Gainey was, for all intents and purposes, back at his post full-time. Don't pretend like you have inner knowledge of how the trade went down or how much Gainey did vs. how much Gauthier did and then tell me to get over myself. All you have to go on are your own assumptions.
If there's one thing I've learned over the years here it's that numerous posters like to absolve Gainey with this urban legend that Gauthier was the one manning the ship (no Laura Gainey pun intended, ugh) when the Gomez deal went down. Confirmation bias is a hell of a thing.

What's more likely truth is that Gainey was the GM and Gauthier, his AGM and lead pro scout, had significant input in making the deal - as his position entails. Won't go any further than that or we're getting into speculative territory.

Coldplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 09:17 AM
  #24
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,452
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Absolutely. It's both their faults, the one who pulled the trade and the one who reffered him the player who was his right hand man in Gauthier

And no it has nothing to do with the Fisher pick, that's on Timmins not anyone else. The only pick I give Timmins a free pass was Leblanc, cause I honeslty think he was selected just because you know why and I'm not going to go there!
Gomez was at the forefront of NHL hockey for 6-7 years before the trade, Gainey didn't need Gauthier to tell him who Gomez was. His contract was also public knowledge. Gianey would defer to Timmins and his scouts on McDonagh not Gauthier.

Monctonscout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 09:22 AM
  #25
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,231
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
If there's one thing I've learned over the years here it's that numerous posters like to absolve Gainey with this urban legend that Gauthier was the one manning the ship (no Laura Gainey pun intended, ugh) when the Gomez deal went down. Confirmation bias is a hell of a thing.

What's more likely truth is that Gainey was the GM and Gauthier, his AGM and lead pro scout, had significant input in making the deal - as his position entails. Won't go any further than that or we're getting into speculative territory.
Indeed. People can shift the blame to whoever is the subject of their attack. If you're building a case against Gainey, it was his fault. If you're tearing down Gauthier, it was his. In reality, it was almost certainly a combination of the two. How much and who exactly, we'll never know for sure. For all we knows Timmins fell out of love with McDonagh and recommended we include him in the trade. Who the hell knows for sure?

But my view is, Gainey was the GM, so it's his responsibility at the end of the day. The buck stops there. In the same way that a CEO is responsible for anything that happens in his company below him, whether or not he was implicated directly or not.

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.