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Bergevin named finalist for GM of the Year award

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05-23-2014, 09:23 AM
  #26
Coldplay
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Indeed. People can shift the blame to whoever is the subject of their attack. If you're building a case against Gainey, it was his fault. If you're tearing down Gauthier, it was his. In reality, it was almost certainly a combination of the two. How much and who exactly, we'll never know for sure.

But my view is, Gainey was the GM, so it's his responsibility at the end of the day. The buck stops there. In the same way that a CEO is responsible for anything that happens in his company below him, whether or not he was implicated directly or not.
I agree completely. You nailed it.

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05-23-2014, 09:40 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Not to make a case for Gauthier as a great GM or anything, but I don't think he gets enough credit for the Halak trade. Not because he got a monstrously good return for Halak (even though I like Eller and he is leading our forwards in scoring in the playoffs right now) but because it took balls of steel to not move Price and it's looking like 100% the right move at this point. That's was a franchise defining trade (or non-trade, in terms of not moving Price).

Anyway just my two cents on the Goat since it was brought up. Didn't mean to turn this into a Price vs. Halak thing.

Bergevin has been very good so far. Not perfect, and some headscratchers along the way, but find me one GM in the league with a perfect record. The good definitely outweighs the bad (or the questionable) so far.
Exactly, the good far outweighs the bad and the moves have reason behind them.

What has caused us to be mediocre in large part for about 20years are a stream of GMs making the mega blunder trades, like Roy, Leclair, Chelios etc, and countless other ones that eroded our asset base because we always got less than fair value.

MB hasn't made a mega blunder and he has actually been doing well on trades.

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05-23-2014, 09:43 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Exactly, the good far outweighs the bad and the moves have reason behind them.

What has caused us to be mediocre in large part for about 20years are a stream of GMs making the mega blunder trades, like Roy, Leclair, Chelios etc, and countless other ones that eroded our asset base because we always got less than fair value.

MB hasn't made a mega blunder and he has actually been doing well on trades.
No mega blunder, but certain a few very, very solid trades.

I mean, Diaz for Weise, the Weaver Acquisition, the VANEK TRADE.. all very very solid moves.

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05-23-2014, 10:25 AM
  #29
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Forgot the DD signing (which is a good one at this point) and the Ryan White signing (neutral; replacement player earning replacement player salary).

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05-23-2014, 11:33 AM
  #30
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Classic Bergevin GIF from his playing days


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05-23-2014, 12:54 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
No. But being the main guy in charge while your boss is currently grieving for the death of his daughter certain makes it your fault.
This is bs IMO.

Gainey daughter went missing in 07 I believe. The Gomez deal was in 2010.

Getting over a child is not easy, and can take forever to get over.

But just 2-3 months before trading for Gomez, Gainey decided that he was not only fine to be the GM, but fired Carbo and took over as coach himself.

Kinda weird for a guy that can barely do his job as GM, decides to take over coaching duties as well..

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05-23-2014, 01:00 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
The guy gave up way more picks than he got. Giving 5th rounders for Mara, 4th rounders for Sopel and Dawes, 2nd round picks for Moore and Wiz (who he didn't re-sign), and gave high 2nd rounder to move up 5 spots at the end of round 1 in the draft to get Tinordi, instead of, say, Merrill and Nelson.

Not sure you can say he added picks. He was terrible in asset management, he's the GM who gave up the most picks, and the current struggles in Hamilton are a big consequence of his tenure.
Got a 2nd round pick for Akost

Early 2nd for Gill 34th pick I believe.

Another early pick for the Flames in the Cammy trade, I think 36th pick.

Also don't think you should be counting draft day trade fo picks, because for one, you get the player you want, it was reported that Timmins asked Gauthier to make the deal because Van City was gonna take Tinordi if we didn't trade up, and because if you want to count them, Gauthier got some of the picks back from Atl when he traded down to get picks back to make up for the Solep trade.

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05-23-2014, 01:02 PM
  #33
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Marc Bergevin: finalist for NHL GM of the Year!



http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=7...d=nhl:topheads

Quote:
Marc Bergevin, Montreal Canadiens

Bergevin guided the Canadiens (46-28-8, 100 points) to their second 100-point season since 1992-93, leading the team to the playoffs for the second time in as many years as general manager. He bolstered the offense with the summer signing of Daniel Briere and also added grit with the offseason acquisitions of Douglas Murray and George Parros. Bergevin then shored up the roster with midseason trades for Thomas Vanek, Mike Weaver and Dale Weise, all of whom played critical roles in the team advancing to the Eastern Conference Final for the second time in the past five seasons.

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05-23-2014, 01:03 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
This is bs IMO.

Gainey daughter went missing in 07 I believe. The Gomez deal was in 2010.

Getting over a child is not easy, and can take forever to get over.

But just 2-3 months before trading for Gomez, Gainey decided that he was not only fine to be the GM, but fired Carbo and took over as coach himself.

Kinda weird for a guy that can barely do his job as GM, decides to take over coaching duties as well..
Just to clarify the dates, she went missing in December 2006 and the Gomez trade was July 2009.

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05-23-2014, 01:03 PM
  #35
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Honestly, he should win.

If we somehow get to the finals, he should win two.

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05-23-2014, 01:04 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Just to clarify the dates, she went missing in December 2006 and the Gomez trade was July 2009.
Thanks

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05-23-2014, 01:05 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
I merged this thread with HiggsBozon's since I figured most people are going to start discussing the moves he's made in your thread anyway.

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05-23-2014, 01:06 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I merged this thread with HiggsBozon's since I figured most people are going to start discussing the moves he's made in your thread anyway.
No worries good sir.

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05-23-2014, 01:06 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
If there's one thing I've learned over the years here it's that numerous posters like to absolve Gainey with this urban legend that Gauthier was the one manning the ship (no Laura Gainey pun intended, ugh) when the Gomez deal went down. Confirmation bias is a hell of a thing.

What's more likely truth is that Gainey was the GM and Gauthier, his AGM and lead pro scout, had significant input in making the deal - as his position entails. Won't go any further than that or we're getting into speculative territory.
Look if it makes you feel better, both Gainey & Gauthier hurt this team AS GMs. Gainey was a great player but I wish he never took the Montreal GM job. As for Gauthier, another year of that man's antics and we would be facing 4-5 years of recovery. Both those men had no idea what sort of team they wanted to build.

And that's the dif I see with Bergevin. He has a model in mind. There's reason to his rhyme. Those two clowns there was neither rhyme nor reason to their moves.

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05-23-2014, 01:12 PM
  #40
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Ha, saw it on twitter - last two winners of the GM of the Year award? Ray Shero and Mike Gillis.

Happy trails, Bergie

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05-23-2014, 01:13 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
No mega blunder, but certain a few very, very solid trades.

I mean, Diaz for Weise, the Weaver Acquisition, the VANEK TRADE.. all very very solid moves.
And it's starting to look like the Desjardins for Tokarski trade may be a good one also. And there's also Dubynk which leads me to Waite and the other hockey people MB has brought into the organization: Dudley, Mellanby, Lapointe, Waite and yes Brisebois. Bergevin has done exactly what he said he was going to do: build a team on and off the ice and work with that team.

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05-23-2014, 01:15 PM
  #42
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Wasn't he nominated last year also?

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05-23-2014, 01:15 PM
  #43
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He has done a good job on paper.

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05-23-2014, 01:15 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Ha, saw it on twitter - last two winners of the GM of the Year award? Ray Shero and Mike Gillis.

Happy trails, Bergie
#Tanking4McDavid

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05-23-2014, 01:21 PM
  #45
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I agree with everything you posted but every time I see McDonagh play I go into a blind rage and have to be restrained by 4 muscle bound weightlifters. And your mentioning of the name Gauthier sends me over the edge so I can post no more or I'll get 5 or 6 infractions for foul language.
So you had 4 muscle bound weightlifters holding you all of last night?

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05-23-2014, 01:22 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Gainey traded McDonough to the Rangers not Gauthier.

Gauthier actually did a pretty good job as GM, good asset management and adding picks. Halak-Eller trade etc
Must have been tough on Gauthier doing nothing since joining the organization as head Pro Scout and Assistant GM then suddenly being given the GM spot by Gainey saying he's his right hand man/friend and trusts him to do a good job. True story, even Garth Snow added picks at the deadline after finding out his team had no chance at playoffs. Knowing it's time to sell as a lottery team is basic knowledge. Throwing picks for rentals every deadline filling same hole? That's all Gauthier.

Do people think Bergevin had nothing to do with Hawks movements and Benning had nothing to do with Bruins movements for example? Still amazes me people suggest Gauthier had no role in the Gomez trade.

And yes, I believe Rick Dudley has a huge role with the team right now and there's a reason Bergevin gave him extra money to stay in his role with the Habs. Good move or bad move, Dudley no doubt had a hand in it.

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05-23-2014, 01:23 PM
  #47
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Relevant.

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05-23-2014, 01:35 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
"Certain"? Sounds like a lot of conjecture to me. The bottom line is the only two people who know best how much responsibility Gainey had and how much responsibility Gauthier had...are Gainey and Gauthier. But at the end of the day, Gainey's name was under "general manager". That's the only real certainty there.
And Gauthier was Assistant General Manager - no way the deal goes down without his input.

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05-23-2014, 01:37 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Must have been tough on Gauthier doing nothing since joining the organization as head Pro Scout and Assistant GM then suddenly being given the GM spot by Gainey saying he's his right hand man/friend and trusts him to do a good job. True story, even Garth Snow added picks at the deadline after finding out his team had no chance at playoffs. Knowing it's time to sell as a lottery team is basic knowledge. Throwing picks for rentals every deadline filling same hole? That's all Gauthier.

Do people think Bergevin had nothing to do with Hawks movements and Benning had nothing to do with Bruins movements for example? Still amazes me people suggest Gauthier had no role in the Gomez trade.

And yes, I believe Rick Dudley has a huge role with the team right now and there's a reason Bergevin gave him extra money to stay in his role with the Habs. Good move or bad move, Dudley no doubt had a hand in it.
Anyone saying Gauthier doesn't deserve some blame for the trade is wrong, but most of the blame should go to Gainey. Just like Larry Carriere who was hired as Ast GM by Gauthier and kept on by Bergevin doesn't get the blame for the Kaberle Spacek deal.

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05-23-2014, 01:38 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
And Gauthier was Assistant General Manager - no way the deal goes down without his input.
Of course. If you read my later posts I said Gauthier almost certainly was implicated. I'm not absolving either of blame.

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