HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bergevin named finalist for GM of the Year award

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-23-2014, 04:43 PM
  #76
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Gainey traded McDonough to the Rangers not Gauthier.

Gauthier actually did a pretty good job as GM, good asset management and adding picks. Halak-Eller trade etc
Gauthier signed Emelin and Diaz (=Weise) and traded Cammalleri, AKost, and Gill for assets + Bourque and Holland. I'd say not so bad. When Bergevin came in he found the cupboard partially filled, not empty.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 05:12 PM
  #77
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I wouldn't classify myself as a MB basher but I was really upset at the way he handled Subban's contract negotiation. And I really hated MB's summer moves (Briere, Murray, Parros too many 7th dmen instead of one top 4 guy we actually needed).

After those moves I had started to lose faith in the guy. And I was really close minded in how I looked at the Weaver and Weise deals because of these prior disappointments. Mea culpa.
I was in the same boat. I didn't like any of the moves Bergevin did from the time he re-signed DD to the contract he gave to Emelin.
I wasn't left with much hope when I heard he was in negotiations to re-sign Diaz and Gionta, with no mention of more important guys like PK-Markov.
The Weise trade I really wasn't for or against, didn't know much from Weise but he didn't sound like a guy we needed. Meanwhile Diaz was a good puck mover for us that did a pretty good job keeping the puck out of our zone and into the opponent's, but for some reason Therrien valued a horrible Defensive Dman that could hit over him.
So, I was skeptical.

Weaver I didn't have an issue with. Clear depth move, but didn't expect him to be as solid. Vanek was a steal. That certainly gave me hope moving forward.
I made a thread about it at the end of the season just before the PO started that pretty much summed up what you said ''credit when credit is due''.
All this can quickly go down the drain though with how he handles all his cases during this off season.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 05:15 PM
  #78
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Anyone saying Gauthier doesn't deserve some blame for the trade is wrong, but most of the blame should go to Gainey. Just like Larry Carriere who was hired as Ast GM by Gauthier and kept on by Bergevin doesn't get the blame for the Kaberle Spacek deal.
Carriere was on the bench as assistant coach half of Gauthier's tenure, have no idea what his role is with the team but that doesn't resemble anything like normal assistant GMs. He was pro scout with Sabres so perhaps he's internal scouting based on him being chosen as assistant coach. He was coaching during the time Gauthier made Kaberle/Spacek trade.

IMO both Gainey/Gauthier are a duo, there's a reason Gainey stayed with the team in a senior advisor role after personally handing GM job to him. Both deserve the blame. To me it's ridiculous how people treat Gauthier as some victim to Gainey as if he wouldn't have had major input on the franchise hurting moves that were made from 2008 onwards. Someone that is Assistant GM/Director of Pro Scouting would have a huge say in how everything is run. When judging Gauthier's tenure with the Habs, so many people just remove that part of history from Gauthier as if he had no part of it. This defense of him is something I fail to understand.

There's a reason so many Assistant GMs get hired for GM positions, this wouldn't be the case unless they are highly involved in hockey operations. It's actually common for Assistant GMs to conduct contract discussion, trades, UFAs. Burke always mentioned at press conferences whenever Nonis did most of the work. If I'm not mistaken, at the deadline Dudley was the one acting on behalf of Bergevin while he was at a funeral.

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 05:17 PM
  #79
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Gauthier signed Emelin and Diaz (=Weise) and traded Cammalleri, AKost, and Gill for assets + Bourque and Holland. I'd say not so bad. When Bergevin came in he found the cupboard partially filled, not empty.
Bergevin came in at the perfect time. He had a new owner willing to pay up to the cap, buy out our worst two contracts, a 3rd overall pick, a team that just finished at the bottom of the East and so expectations were extremely low, already a pretty good group of youngsters on the club or knocking at the door, and a good number of draft picks. Really, in terms of wanting to rebuild a team, I don't think you could paint a better situation for a new GM to come into.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 05:25 PM
  #80
Des Louise
Formerly E=CH2
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 18,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
voting done at end of regular season. http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=80942

Interesting. I think the Vanek/Weaver/Weise deals got him in contention.

Des Louise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 05:28 PM
  #81
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Carriere was on the bench as assistant coach half of Gauthier's tenure, have no idea what his role is with the team but that doesn't resemble anything like normal assistant GMs. He was pro scout with Sabres so perhaps he's internal scouting based on him being chosen as assistant coach. He was coaching during the time Gauthier made Kaberle/Spacek trade.

IMO both Gainey/Gauthier are a duo, there's a reason Gainey stayed with the team in a senior advisor role after personally handing GM job to him. Both deserve the blame. To me it's ridiculous how people treat Gauthier as some victim to Gainey as if he wouldn't have had major input on the franchise hurting moves that were made from 2008 onwards. Someone that is Assistant GM/Director of Pro Scouting would have a huge say in how everything is run. When judging Gauthier's tenure with the Habs, so many people just remove that part of history from Gauthier as if he had no part of it. This defense of him is something I fail to understand.

There's a reason so many Assistant GMs get hired for GM positions, this wouldn't be the case unless they are highly involved in hockey operations. It's actually common for Assistant GMs to conduct contract discussion, trades, UFAs. Burke always mentioned at press conferences whenever Nonis did most of the work. If I'm not mistaken, at the deadline Dudley was the one acting on behalf of Bergevin while he was at a funeral.
I think the people acquitting Gauthier of any blame do so because there's no actual proof that he made that trade. At the end of the day, Gainey was the GM, he has final say. I mean, do we know if Gauthier is the one that approached Gainey to say ''let Koivu walk and go after Gomez'', or did Gainey send Gauthier to watch Gomez perform for a few games. How did Gomez do during those games?
There is so little we know about how it all actually went down. I mean, why was Gomez even an option to begin with?
So the people that don't put too much blame on Gauthier do so from a lack of information.

On the flip side, you know there are people that blame Gauthier for everything because they didn't like him the moment he was named. I mean, you had people criticizing him because he was being formal and polite by calling everyone ''mister''.
The hate he got was really ridiculous. There were issues, but a lot of stuff was overblown.

In the end, they were a team, but the Gomez deal happened under Gainey's watch. So I put the blame on him primarily. I take my work as an example, we are a team, but sometimes I completely disagree with how my boss is handling certain issues or what he wants.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 05:35 PM
  #82
Beatnik
Registered User
 
Beatnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,667
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Beatnik
Very good job OP. Was nice to see all the moves.

-----

I hate the Gauthier/Gainey argument so much! We have absolutely no way to know

---

About the nomination I think Bergevin deserves it solely on the Vanek steal that turned our season around. Other than that he did ok. I kinda wait to see what will happen with PK.

Beatnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 06:01 PM
  #83
coolasprICE
Registered User
 
coolasprICE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,518
vCash: 500
I'll go out on the limb and say that the vast majority of all GM's decisions are taken with consent and approval by his supporting staff.

Just a hunch.

Likewise, I would suspect only a very small minority decisions are taken without the consent and approval of the men underneath him.

Of course the GM has final say, but I doubt very highly that someone of Gauthier's hockey experience did not play a big role in Gainey's diminishing role as GM.

coolasprICE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 06:13 PM
  #84
Rapala
Chasin'TheCup
 
Rapala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Very good job OP. Was nice to see all the moves.

-----

I hate the Gauthier/Gainey argument so much! We have absolutely no way to know

---

About the nomination I think Bergevin deserves it solely on the Vanek steal that turned our season around. Other than that he did ok. I kinda wait to see what will happen with PK.
The Vanek move was huge on so many levels.
His current play having the least impact.
The message it sent stunned EVERYBODY most importantly his team.
We have identified how a single player upgrade completely changes this teams dynamic.
Important for next year when we most likely don't resign him.
Paves the way for a similar upgrade on the D got a feeling a veteran top 4 will be moved.
Kudos to MB's staff they have proven they can find the right small pieces to make it work.

Rapala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 06:36 PM
  #85
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 26,768
vCash: 500
He easily pulled off the biggest trade at the deadline in getting Vanek. The Weaver/Weisse/Tokarski moves look great now as well.

If this voting was done at the end of the regular season though, seems weird that he'd be a nominee here. Weaver, Weisse and Tokarski looked like nothing moves at the time. After the playoffs... different story. Weaver/Weisse/Tokarski/Vanek (does anyone even remember the Tokarski trade?) all look great in light of the postseason. A lot of what he's touched has really turned to gold.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 07:17 PM
  #86
sventington
Registered User
 
sventington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 981
vCash: 500
I would have given it to whoever is running things in Buffalo. That was one of most well orchestrated rebuild centred seasons I can ever recall seeing. He unloaded so much, and unlike Snow, he got a ton of what he was looking for back.

I think I learn to live with Bergevin though, haha.

sventington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 07:21 PM
  #87
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think the people acquitting Gauthier of any blame do so because there's no actual proof that he made that trade. At the end of the day, Gainey was the GM, he has final say. I mean, do we know if Gauthier is the one that approached Gainey to say ''let Koivu walk and go after Gomez'', or did Gainey send Gauthier to watch Gomez perform for a few games. How did Gomez do during those games?
There is so little we know about how it all actually went down. I mean, why was Gomez even an option to begin with?
So the people that don't put too much blame on Gauthier do so from a lack of information.

On the flip side, you know there are people that blame Gauthier for everything because they didn't like him the moment he was named. I mean, you had people criticizing him because he was being formal and polite by calling everyone ''mister''.
The hate he got was really ridiculous. There were issues, but a lot of stuff was overblown.

In the end, they were a team, but the Gomez deal happened under Gainey's watch. So I put the blame on him primarily. I take my work as an example, we are a team, but sometimes I completely disagree with how my boss is handling certain issues or what he wants.
Ah but I'm not suggesting Gauthier did all the moves himself though or taking away blame from Gainey. I think people are unrealistically diminishing his role with the team under the excuse of 'no proof' of the significance of his job as Assistant GM and Director of Pro Scouting to the transactions that transpired during the same timeline. They were a duo that worked together and should share the blame together. I'm suggesting blame both of them for the failures as both were still running the team until 2012.

When Gauthier was hired, it was realistic to assume this wasn't a new regime and things will essentially be same old same old. After all, Gainey even stayed on with the team in a key operational role. This wasn't a Regier to Murray, Gillis to Benning, Gauthier to Bergevin type of move people would expect when a 'change' is made. He had a key role in creating the 'mess' he was taking over.

We have seen many examples of Assistant GMs doing GM duties, so much so that no one even bats an eye at news that suggests it since it's practically the norm. Dudley taking over for Bergevin at trade deadline being a recent Habs example. Burke always gave special credit publicly whenever Nonis or Loiselle does contract/trade negotiations. Doug MacLean mentioned the roles being more shared compared to a long time ago when the GM had more power during the Shanahan hire as President. These guys might have an 'Assistant' tag but there is plenty proof that they do a lot more than being a yes-man. For example, I couldn't find exact Burke quotes giving credit to Nonis but here's a nice analogy for what I mean:
Quote:
"There might be a reason Nonis sees a lot he likes about this hockey team; his fingerprints are all over the roster. Burke might have been the architect, but Nonis was the draftsman who acquired Dion Phaneuf in a seven-player trade from Calgary and who brought in Joffrey Lupul and Jake Gardiner from Anaheim."
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...rebuild-leafs/
The big difference, Burke was fired and no say in bringing Nonis as GM while Gainey wanted to retire from the responsibilities of being GM and move to a lower position while putting in someone that is like-minded/trustworthy. We have proof that Gainey and Gauthier are like-minded and a pair as we saw Gauthier's promotion and praises from Gainey's mouth as he introduced him himself and stayed on with the organization as essentially Assistant GM. I don't think it's far fetched to assume the two worked as a team and made the decisions together as a team.

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:23 PM
  #88
Team_Spirit
Gangsta Pleks
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 23,040
vCash: 2600
found it


Team_Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 08:24 PM
  #89
HatTricK09
Registered User
 
HatTricK09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,591
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Can someone post the GIF of Bergevin stealing a TV (Vanek)
Edit: Goddamnit beat by a few seconds

HatTricK09 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 10:35 PM
  #90
Steve Shutt
Don't Poke the Bear
 
Steve Shutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Colombia
Posts: 426
vCash: 500
You missed a few minor transactions:

1) Devan Dubnyk for future considerations
2) Robert Czarnik for Steve Quailer
3) George Parros for Philippe Lefebvre & 2014 7th round pick
4) Jason DeSantis for Brendon Nash

5) Not returning Galchenyuk to the OHL
6) Adding Waite, Dudley, Mellanby, Therrien, Lapointe, Brisebois

Steve Shutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 10:37 PM
  #91
deandebean
Registered User
 
deandebean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 9,580
vCash: 500
He earned it.

deandebean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2014, 10:38 PM
  #92
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,016
vCash: 500
Not surprising. Good for him. And good for us!

Jigger77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2014, 12:58 AM
  #93
Brainiac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sventington View Post
I would have given it to whoever is running things in Buffalo. That was one of most well orchestrated rebuild centred seasons I can ever recall seeing. He unloaded so much, and unlike Snow, he got a ton of what he was looking for back.

I think I learn to live with Bergevin though, haha.
Well, let's see if it leads to something first.

Maybe you don't remember, but 2 or 3 years ago, everybody around here was giving Edmonton the cup in 2015 or 2016 at the latest. Funny how things can turn out in real life.

Brainiac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2014, 01:08 AM
  #94
Saintpatrick
Registered User
 
Saintpatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,937
vCash: 500
When was the last time we had a GM nominated for GM of the year two years in a row. Pretty impressive start by MB so far.

Saintpatrick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2014, 01:35 AM
  #95
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Bergevin came in at the perfect time. He had a new owner willing to pay up to the cap, buy out our worst two contracts, a 3rd overall pick, a team that just finished at the bottom of the East and so expectations were extremely low, already a pretty good group of youngsters on the club or knocking at the door, and a good number of draft picks. Really, in terms of wanting to rebuild a team, I don't think you could paint a better situation for a new GM to come into.
What rebuild? The entire core is exactly the same.

Subban, Price, Paccioretty, Pleks etc were already all here. He brought in Vanek but I don't think that makes him GM of the year. Here we go down the "I trust in BOB" road again, let the fan boys in to start salivating.

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2014, 06:01 AM
  #96
MDN
Registered User
 
MDN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 664
vCash: 500
Why the **** do you guys always have to bring up Gauthier and Gainey every damn time our GM is mentioned. Bergy got the nom, let's be happy for him, and move the **** on.

Get over it.

MDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2014, 06:17 AM
  #97
Des Louise
Formerly E=CH2
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 18,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shutt View Post
You missed a few minor transactions:

1) Devan Dubnyk for future considerations
2) Robert Czarnik for Steve Quailer
3) George Parros for Philippe Lefebvre & 2014 7th round pick
4) Jason DeSantis for Brendon Nash

5) Not returning Galchenyuk to the OHL
6) Adding Waite, Dudley, Mellanby, Therrien, Lapointe, Brisebois
I'd say that Waite was probably his best move of them all. And not because I want to credit Waite for Price's success. Price had one great season before Waite got here, but it's still important to have a great goalie coach to get more out of your goalie whoever it is. Even more important if you have a good one capable of greatness.


Last edited by Des Louise: 05-24-2014 at 06:52 AM.
Des Louise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2014, 06:27 AM
  #98
t0ny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 60
vCash: 500
MB deserved it.
If he continues to avoid bonehead moves and keep trusting Timmins, we are definitely going in the right direction.

And that's more than fun

t0ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2014, 08:54 AM
  #99
Habsrule
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,051
vCash: 500
I know that it is actually the scouting staff who do most of the work but it is the GM who makes the draft selections.

In Bergeron's first two drafts he has drafted:

2012:
Alex Galchenyuk
Sebastien Collberg (traded to NYI)
Dalton Thrower
Tim Bozon
Brady Vail
Charles Hudon
Erik Nystrom

2013:
Michael McCarron
Jacob De La Rose
Zach Fucale
Artturi Lehkonen
Connor Crisp
Sven Andreghetto
Martin Reway
Jeremy Gregoire


I know that I am a homer so I am biased but those two drafts look really good on paper.

Thanks Bergy.

Habsrule is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2014, 08:59 AM
  #100
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,106
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
The big difference, Burke was fired and no say in bringing Nonis as GM while Gainey wanted to retire from the responsibilities of being GM and move to a lower position while putting in someone that is like-minded/trustworthy. We have proof that Gainey and Gauthier are like-minded and a pair as we saw Gauthier's promotion and praises from Gainey's mouth as he introduced him himself and stayed on with the organization as essentially Assistant GM. I don't think it's far fetched to assume the two worked as a team and made the decisions together as a team.
It is far fetched to think they agreed on every move though. Even in terms of philosophy there was a clear break between Gauthier/Gainey with respect to the importance of size up front.

At the end of the day the Gomez trade was bad because we lost McDonagh not because we acquired Gomez. If Gainey deemed McDonagh expendable, that's on him not Gauthier.

Sorinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.